Steve Jobs Suggests Blu-ray Not Coming to Mac Anytime Soon

[Slim02]

of course movie studios are going to want to lock you into an obsolete plastic disc, this is their last gasp... but that's not what i'm talking about. all data needs to be free or at a very low cost, so whether you stream it, download it, or torrent it, the apple devices will play it.

so you need to step it up a notch or stop commenting.

What you do not get is people will alway use Disc no matter what and you can not understand it because your head is so far up your butt.. There are people out there that do not Own or have a computer and maybe never get one because they do not need one. People will keep using disc until the end of time.. I know people that do not own a computer and do not pain on owning one, I know people that do not own or have a Caller Phone and do not plain in owning one.. So again disc format will stay around and stay on the market...

I think you are the one that needs to stop commenting, because every time you talk or write . You are making a fool out of yourself.. Blu-ray is a live and kick and is on the market even tho you are to blind to see it..

 

[macdrew]

I personally think you, steve and many other people on this site are try to see too far into the future, "a few years" ha, most internet providers are actually making a step backwards, instead of releasing unlimited internet broadband, they are starting to put caps on.

not only that but there are many places in this world, even in America and and the uk, that are still on dial up/very low internet speeds. this won't change for 5-10 years, not just 1 or 2.

I don't get apples approach, they could make millions because providing blu-ray support on macs and giving us blu-ray drives in macs, the mac mini with a blu-ray drive would eat up the htpc market.

but why would you want a cap from your provider? get closer to the backbone and you won't need to worry about limits... and Apple, nor its users care about dial up users, they aren't part of the Apple culture so it's of no concern.

yes, but you are forgetting Apple doesn't care about "money", they are focused on making the very best products, so money has never been the aim. so why saddle the mac mini with a blu-ray drive when you can just download, stream or torrent a video? you need to take a look at Vuze... it ends the need for optical drives.

Vuze

 

[mrochester]

of course movie studios are going to want to lock you into an obsolete plastic disc, this is their last gasp... but that's not what i'm talking about. all data needs to be free or at a very low cost, so whether you stream it, download it, or torrent it, the apple devices will play it.

so you need to step it up a notch or stop commenting.

I think the problem with your theory is that there is no cheap, easily accessible substitute for the disk format. My parent's bought a DVD player a few years ago for £16. Where can you buy a device for that price that'll stream internet content?

 

[DakotaGuy]

all optical discs are being phased out, that's just the life cycle of tech. sure, you'll still them around, but no more development will be made.

nah, fast internet has rendered optical discs obsolete, you'll see what i'm saying in a few years.

Please provide some information about the phase out of BD. If the format is actually being phased out there must be some news articles. BD is only being phased out in your mind.

BD continues to be developed. 3D BD standards were finalized in December 2009 and in June 2010 BDXL standards were finalized. BDXL provides discs with a capacity of 100-128GB. These will come into play when we actually go beyond 1080p resolution. 1440p is the next step.

You are not concerned with video and audio quality and you don't think anyone else should be, but people who spend a lot of money on a great home theater are. You think that whatever Apple gives you even if it is low bit rate 720p full of artifacts and has a low bit rate lossy old fashioned Dolby Digital is acceptable because it is coming from Apple. It's not.

As more and more displays become 3D and resolution takes a jump beyond 1080p file size will continue to increase at a rapid pace. BD offers a great growth path until compression can get so good that these files can be cut by 50-75% without any loss. We are YEARS away from that.

yes, but you are forgetting Apple doesn't care about "money", they are focused on making the very best products, so money has never been the aim. so why saddle the mac mini with a blu-ray drive when you can just download, stream or torrent a video? you need to take a look at Vuze... it ends the need for optical drives.

So you are going to argue that an iTunes download is a better product then a BD disc? Please enlighten all of us how the iTunes download has better picture and audio quality. It's not even close and the way display technology continues to evolve it is going to be hard to play catch-up without increasing file size.

 

[JesterJJZ]

Physical Media, optical or whatever else follows (Flash Drives?) will be around for some time. People like owning things and putting them on a shelf. There's something satisfying about going to my shelf and picking out a movie to watch. DVD, BluRay, etc. ain't going anywhere until CDs die off, and I don't see that happening for at least another 10 years.

 

[DoFoT9]

Absolutly, the cost has decreased as they become a mainstream format.

What I was thinking about more is the cost of a HDTV to watch the blu Ray on. The cost of a HDTV is of course coming down also but I still have a hard time seeing it as ghetto. Of course I haven't done any research on this one, but still.

ok yea i see your point. i was simply referring to the media itself. that is true, for the benefits of BD a user must also purchase a TV and BD player to reap the full benefits. for DVDs they merely had to purchase the DVD player and the DVDs. what you say is true though

I've talked about it over and over again. Split the company into two companies; one a fad toymaker and the other the traditional computer division. Leave Jobs as the CEO of Apple-O or whatever they want to call the toy division and FIND SOMEONE WHO KNOWS HOW TO SERVICE A BASE to CEO the COMPUTER division, and start making cutting edge workstations again. Fastest processors, most current video cards, Blu-ray support throughout the entire OS, as well as authoring software that "just works."

WOAH never thought of that! thats a great idea!!! all the shareholders should put in for a change

Then, once Apple-O goes bankrupt from cheaper and flashier competition that won't be subject to his personal phobias, fetishes, and petty wars (think iPads that DO implement flash), Jobs' failure won't take Apple COMPUTERS with it.

yea i agree, thats likely to eventually happen.

Desktop workstations, and working at a desk, and the ability to be able to LEAVE your work at a desk, isn't going anywhere.

again, i agree - to some extent. most of the consumers seem to be going (unfortunately) to more mobile devices, and i think even the business market is going that way. cloud computing, Virtual Machines running on the servers instead of the end computers (i have tens of thousands of those at my work) and the like! i SURE do hope that desktops stay around.

Physical Media, optical or whatever else follows (Flash Drives?) will be around for some time. People like owning things and putting them on a shelf. There's something satisfying about going to my shelf and picking out a movie to watch. DVD, BluRay, etc. ain't going anywhere until CDs die off, and I don't see that happening for at least another 10 years.

i had this crazy idea to rent out flash drives with BD movies on them except it would cost about 10x what i earn each year to license everything

 

[scoobydoo99]

.. I guess you better tell all the Movie studios to stop making blu-ray movies of new and old movies then see that blu-ray is dead on the market LOL... If blu-ray was not doing good and was dead the Movie studios would not wasted their time and money in making new and old movies onto blu-ray... You really do not have a clue in what you are talking about and it is making you look like a fool.. LMAO..

um, dude - if movie studios never "waste their time" putting out content in soon-to-be-obsolete formats, how do you explain HD-DVD?!? It was the latest, greatest thing. It had MORE storage capacity than Blu-Ray. It was the FUTURE. Oh, wait, nevermind - throw those discs in the trash, they're OBSOLETE.

Blu-Ray is dead. Physical media is dead. It will just take a few years to take its last breath. And yes, the studios will be happy to take your money for Blu-Ray discs right up until the end.

There are people out there that do not Own or have a computer and maybe never get one because they do not need one. People will keep using disc until the end of time.. I know people that do not own a computer and do not pain on owning one,

And yet, you think everyone has the money and desire for Blu-Ray players and HD televisions? You don't need a computer to stream media. AppleTV, iPad and iPhone all consume and manage digital media, and store internally or access media from the cloud. There is no need to fill cabinets with quaint round plastic discs. lol

 

[jfanning]

of course movie studios are going to want to lock you into an obsolete plastic disc, this is their last gasp... but that's not what i'm talking about. all data needs to be free or at a very low cost, so whether you stream it, download it, or torrent it, the apple devices will play it.

so you need to step it up a notch or stop commenting.

two issues with what you are saying.

1. This obsolete plastic disc you talk about can be played on a tonne of devices from many manufactures, compared to these downloads, they are restricted to a small number of devices, and will only play on a single manufactures devices.

2. Your claim about stream it, download it, torrent it, apple will play it. Well this statement shows you to be a 10 or 11 year kid, Apple restricts their devices to a small number of codec supports, and only supports a small number of streaming technologies themselves. Downloads/streaming are the ones trying to restrict your rights, they are anti-consumer, and in their current form I cannot support them, or the companies that push them.

 

[jfanning]

And yet, you think everyone has the money and desire for Blu-Ray players and HD televisions? You don't need a computer to stream media. AppleTV, iPad and iPhone all consume and manage digital media, and store internally or access media from the cloud. There is no need to fill cabinets with quaint round plastic discs. lol

How do you stream the flash based services to the AppleTV, iPad, or iPhone?

 

[scoobydoo99]

most of the consumers seem to be going (unfortunately) to more mobile devices, and i think even the business market is going that way. cloud computing, Virtual Machines running on the servers instead of the end computers (i have tens of thousands of those at my work) and the like! i SURE do hope that desktops stay around.
(

WHY?!?! The point of a desktop was to accomplish SOMETHING. If you can now do those things from a MOBILE device, that's a huge advantage. Your comment is like saying, "Unfortunately, consumers seem to be going for mobile phones....I sure hope landline phones that are hard-wired to the wall stay around."

Ugh. Stop living in the past.

 

[scoobydoo99]

How do you stream the flash based services to the AppleTV, iPad, or iPhone?

Flash is dead

 

[Slim02]

um, dude - if movie studios never "waste their time" putting out content in soon-to-be-obsolete formats, how do you explain HD-DVD?!? It was the latest, greatest thing. It had MORE storage capacity than Blu-Ray. It was the FUTURE. Oh, wait, nevermind - throw those discs in the trash, they're OBSOLETE.

Blu-Ray is dead. Physical media is dead. It will just take a few years to take its last breath. And yes, the studios will be happy to take your money for Blu-Ray discs right up until the end.



And yet, you think everyone has the money and desire for Blu-Ray players and HD televisions? You don't need a computer to stream media. AppleTV, iPad and iPhone all consume and manage digital media, and store internally or access media from the cloud. There is no need to fill cabinets with quaint round plastic discs. lol

Yes but they need internet for it to work.. If they do not have a computer why would they need internet?... So again Blu-ray is not dead. Physical media is not dead..

Dead - no longer out. No longer can get new.. Can not find it no where because it is gone..

Sorry but you can go any where that sells movies and buy a Blu-ray movie and the selection grows larger each week.. Far from dead in any means.. Good luck downloading 2k and 4k movies because Physical media will be ahead of download every time..

 

[DoFoT9]

WHY?!?! The point of a desktop was to accomplish SOMETHING. If you can now do those things from a MOBILE device, that's a huge advantage. Your comment is like saying, "Unfortunately, consumers seem to be going for mobile phones....I sure hope landline phones that are hard-wired to the wall stay around."

Ugh. Stop living in the past.

baha. your example is wrong, and you NEED to understand a few things - otherwise you just wont understand lol..

how do you expect me to edit my videos on a mobile device? how could it POSSIBLY have the editing ability?

how do i run my virtual machines?

how to a run a web server off my mobile device?

how do i record my drums?

how do i store my 1080p movies and stream them to any device in the house? (how do i rip these too?)

these are all pro-sumer examples - let alone professional examples who NEED desktop machines.

also, have you even compared a desktop to a notebook performance wise lately? let alone a mobile laptop (eeePC etc). they DO NOT COMPARE!

 

[wreckshop]

of course movie studios are going to want to lock you into an obsolete plastic disc, this is their last gasp... but that's not what i'm talking about. all data needs to be free or at a very low cost, so whether you stream it, download it, or torrent it, the apple devices will play it.

so you need to step it up a notch or stop commenting.

Actually you're right that the movie studios want you to keep buying plastic discs. As long as piracy on BD is kept under control it will continue to be the defacto distribution method for 1080p. Digital downloads will be gimped to 720p low bitrate rentals, which is what the studios want.

SJ has absolutely no influence over the success of BD, so of course he will diss it and preach to his own church about how it sucks. But BD will be around as long as DVD - 10years at least and there's nothing your turtle necked master can do about it since apple owns ZERO content.

 

[Carniphage]

As long as piracy on BD is kept under control it will continue to be the defacto distribution method for 1080p.

The protection system for BluRay was compromised pretty early. Which is why every BluRay release is followed the next day by nice 1080p rips on the internet.

The studios were led to believe that BluRay would be more secure that other formats, but that simply has not been the case. The cat got out of the bag.

Right now, direct download, appears to be quite a bit more secure.

I do agree that BluRay will have a future as a premium collectors format. But it is unlikely to get to the penetration of DVD.

If you listen to Howard Stringer, even Sony are starting to make noises that suggest the economics may push the mass market towards downloaded content for games and movies.

This is not about what consumers want, it is about which business model delivers the best returns for content creators.

C.

 

[cheesymogul]

I think you need to compare like with like:

The purchase experience:

I can purchase and stream a move from iTunes, much faster than you can get to Blockbuster and back.

The watching experience.

And I can press play, to play a movie off my media server, much faster than you can insert and spin up a disk.

Not to mention negotiate all those un-skippable ads.

C.

Wow. I didn't realize that movie watching has turned into a race. The faster I can run through a movie the better the experience??? Why even bother with watching feature movies at all, when they tend to be so draggingly long? Short films are much faster...

I thought the watching experience is about getting the BEST picture and surround sound quality AVAILABLE for your home.
We home theater enthusiasts must be utterly stupid having invested in expensive projectors, large screen 1080p tv's and decent multichannel sound equipment.
Now you are telling us downloading sub dvd standard material from iTunes is a great watching experience - because it is FASTER???

Not all people are that lazy and quality blind as you...

Steve Jobs can babble about the future as much as he want. Until the day Apple will be offering iTunes downloads with at least equal picture and sound quality as found on current digital media, my answer will be: "Shut up and stay the f***k out of my home theater!"

Just ordered three blu-ray discs for less than $35 total. For the same price I could have downloaded them instantly on iTunes - albeit only in crappy sub dvd standard definition. And hold your breath - two of them are only in bloody ancient stereo!!!

Why downloading and even paying(!!!) for last century quality instead of waiting two days and in return getting state-of-the art quality for the same price?

 

[MorphingDragon]

The protection system for BluRay was compromised pretty early. Which is why every BluRay release is followed the next day by nice 1080p rips on the internet.

The studios were led to believe that BluRay would be more secure that other formats, but that simply has not been the case. The cat got out of the bag.

Right now, direct download, appears to be quite a bit more secure.

I do agree that BluRay will have a future as a premium collectors format. But it is unlikely to get to the penetration of DVD.

If you listen to Howard Stringer, even Sony are starting to make noises that suggest the economics may push the mass market towards downloaded content for games and movies.

This is not about what consumers want, it is about which business model delivers the best returns for content creators.

C.

The experience of Streaming video for a majority of the world.

"In fact, if you get bor(loading)ed, why don't you just hijac(loading)k an ice cream tr(loading)uck and drive it through our bra(loading)nd new pathology lab? (Connection Error)"

 

[Carniphage]

Wow. I didn't realize that movie watching has turned into a race. The faster I can run through a movie the better the experience??? Why even bother with watching feature movies at all, when they tend to be so draggingly long? Short films are much faster...

I thought the watching experience is about getting the BEST picture and surround sound quality AVAILABLE for your home.
We home theater enthusiasts must be utterly stupid having invested in expensive projectors, large screen 1080p tv's and decent multichannel sound equipment.
Now you are telling us downloading sub dvd standard material from iTunes is a great watching experience - because it is FASTER???

Not all people are that lazy and quality blind as you...

Steve Jobs can babble about the future as much as he want. Until the day Apple will be offering iTunes downloads with at least equal picture and sound quality as found on current digital media, my answer will be: "Shut up and stay the f***k out of my home theater!"

Just ordered three blu-ray discs for less than $35 total. For the same price I could have downloaded them instantly on iTunes - albeit only in crappy sub dvd standard definition. And hold your breath - two of them are only in bloody ancient stereo!!!

Why downloading and even paying(!!!) for last century quality instead of waiting two days and in return getting state-of-the art quality for the same price?

Wow. I bow you you.

Combining Straw Man AND Ad-Hominen attacks in a single post. You truly are a ninja of the internet forum martial arts!

The thing is you are taking this personally. No one is forcing you to abandon your world-view, no one is taking away your BluRays. This is not personal.

Just a company, that thinks it can create a business model, by selling content differently.

So in real life, if you meet someone who has a different belief to you, or a different religion or sexuality. You don't actually need to attack them. Just tolerate the rich differences of the world.

The visual quality of a BluRay, is clearly better than the current generation of iTunes download. No doubt about it.

But unless have to have a projector, or sit really really close to the TV to get that benefit it's hard for most people to tell the difference. Because retinas really aren't that good.

But enthusiasm for extreme visual quality is understandable. It's like a hobby. But just as extreme quality matters for some people, convenience matters to others.

You might describe them as lazy - or if you were being just a little more generous, you might accept their time was very precious.

C.

 

[Carniphage]

The experience of Streaming video for a majority of the world.

Not sure what the point of that is.
Streaming is not a political manifesto for world domination. It's just an alternative business model for selling content.

Some people *do* have fast internet connections. Coincidentally these tend to be the same people with money to spend on content.

C.

 

[Porco]

To address a few points, again.

1) It's not 'OR' it's 'AND'

We're talking about Apple officially supporting Blu-ray movie playback in OS X. Those of us who want that are not in any way saying anyone else should be stopped or even discouraged from buying whatever 'HD' scraps iTunes wants to sell you now or in the future. If we are stuck in the past and don't get how wonderful a smaller selection of more restricted more compressed, poorer value, lower resolution files are better because you don't have to collect the post first, why not let us suffer our choice? A simple option in system preferences could turn Blu-ray compatibility on or off (maybe with a reboot even). Default it to off. You need never have anything to do with it. So why go 'yay Steve, annoying your customers is great, I have fast internet and a low quality threshold for video - to hell with anyone else even if it doesn't impact me at all!'. At least Jobs has the excuse of corporate strategy! The average consumer wanting other average consumers to not have the choice of Blu-ray support is kind of... sadistic and weird frankly.

2) It's The Internet Speeds (And Data Caps), Stupid

When talking about the internet speeds that are absolutely vital if downloads (or even worse, pure streaming) is to eventually replace physical media for the vast majority of consumers, even those in the anti-BD camp are saying things like 'soon', 'the future' and 'in a few years'. How often do you buy a computer? My main mac is still a 6-year old G5 PowerMac, and I also have a 3-year old MacBook. I would guess those sort of ages are not uncommon for mac users before replacing their machines.

I have very little doubt that I would still be able to buy new releases of Blu-ray discs in 3, and probably 6 years time. So why can't I buy a Mac that natively supports their playback?

And guess what? If downloads get a sudden boost because every nation in the movie-buying world makes a dramatic investment in improving the global state of the internet, those machines will download movies just as well as the ones without Blu-ray drives.

This also assumes that the current trend for data caps is lifted or alleviated as speeds increase. Which will require further investment in infrastructure, which is already not happening fast enough to even begin to talk about Blu-ray being 'dead'. Which brings us on to...

3) Dead bored of 'dead'

The term 'dead' when applied to Blu-ray is just plain factually wrong. Blu-ray sales are still increasing year-on-year. Trying to argue that Blu-ray has failed or is in some way being phased out or has reached its peak already is a silly thing to say, and just undermines whatever you're saying about anything else.

4) Comparisons

It isn't like the floppy drive situation at all, because they were an ancient technology that was replaced by newer technology that was superior in every way and available to everyone. Downloads, other than the convenience factor for those with fast internet connections, are still inferior in many ways, and that is due to the fact they are more highly compressed in order to appeal to as many people as possible, because it is a known fact that large video files are pushing the viability of downloads right now. It will still be many years until everyone can easily access these files even at the current quality levels, let alone anything that matches the files on Blu-ray discs. iTunes for music was good enough for many people, but I think video is a very different beast.

Also, even if it was like the floppy drive situation (which it isn't), when they dropped the floppy drive, anyone who needed one went and bought an external and life was fine because the Mac OS supported the drives perfectly for everything you did with a floppy drive. I can buy a Blu-ray drive for my next mac (Mac Pro please, soon!), but then if I want to use it for playing back movies then because Apple is waiting for the future to arrive, I'd have to kludge about with iffy software on OS X or else install Windows. It's crazy, Jobs is being petty on this.

Also, Jobs liking Blu-ray to DVD-A/SACD is either wilfully disingenuous or just asinine. To be generous maybe he thinks he is only making the point that quality doesn't matter to lots of people, not that Blu-ray is such a niche product - but I think he's smart enough to also realise that it sounds like he is belittling Blu-ray's success at the same time, and I think that is part of the effect he is going for.

5) SHOW ME THE ALTERNATIVE THEN! In the UK I can't even buy HD movies, even if I had both the internet connection to make it credible, and the disregard for quality that made it a desirable choice for me personally. So Apple don't want me to play back Blu-rays in OS X, but they won't give me the alternative they are championing. Even in the US iTunes store, you have a choice of 817 HD movies. Go on Amazon.com, and on 'dead' Blu-ray you have currently have a choice of 7,908 Blu-ray titles, (many of which will be cheaper and have more extra features than the few iTunes counterparts that exist).

-----------

To underline the most important points, that regardless of whether you love Blu-ray, understand the benefits to the consumer of physical media (as opposed to the content owners/distributors/retailers) - The Internet Is Not Ready Anytime Soon. Unless Jobs proposes dipping into that large cash pile Apple are sitting on and investing in the world's internet infrastructure, physical media is not going anywhere for at least the life of a few computers. Whatever you want the future to be, crippling current models doesn't change that fact.

 

[Porco]

The visual quality of a BluRay, is clearly better than the current generation of iTunes download. No doubt about it.

But unless have to have a projector, or sit really really close to the TV to get that benefit it's hard for most people to tell the difference. Because retinas really aren't that good.

No. If you're sat in front of a computer display you can see the difference. Otherwise why don't you set your display to it's lowest resolution? Even with the compression artifacts involved, if you download a 1080p trailer from Apple's movie trailer site, it usually looks better than the 720p version, (sat looking at it on a display that is greater than 720p res of course).

Some people *do* have fast internet connections. Coincidentally these tend to be the same people with money to spend on content.

I think that is a false assumption too. I think Internet speeds typically have more to do with population density of the area rather than how much money you have to spend. I could buy an 'up to 20Mbps' service where I am, but I only get about 1mbps because I'm too far from the nearest telephone exchange to get any better than that. I would pay twice as much for it if it made any difference, but it wouldn't.

If I moved to the right place, nearer a city, I could get 'up to 50Mbps' for less money than I pay now. Up to a point, it's not how much you pay it's where you happen to live.

 

[Frosties]

To add to the post above, movie content in iTunes is only available in a handful of countries. It is no wonder file sharing is big in these countries when there is no other choice.

I have had 100/10 for years but no way to download iTunes movies.

 

[Carniphage]

No. If you're sat in front of a computer display you can see the difference.

You certainly can. I have a 30" Apple Cinema Display, and you can resolve every pixel when I watch from 18". Personally, I would never watch a movie like that for entertainment.

I might be totally wrong, but I think the mass-market is about delivering content to TVs in a living-room context. Watching movies on computers and on projectors happens too, but is not really mainstream.

This is why iTunes movie store is quite weak. It's audience is mainly people watching content on computer screens. The missing link is the ability to watch content on a big screen. That was the idea behind the AppleTV. - a bridge between iTunes content and the big TV. But the product was all wrong.

Incidentally the AppleTV *does* sell HD content in the UK.

If Apple is going to have a credible TV and Movie network, it really needs to reboot the Apple TV first.

I think that is a false assumption too. I think Internet speeds typically have more to do with population density of the area rather than how much money you have to spend.

I was thinking more of Sub-Saharan Africa. What I meant was that internet distribution reaches (or will reach) enough eyeballs to make a viable service.

C.

 

[jfanning]

Flash is dead

Someone forgot to tell the places that are still using it and have to intention of stopping using it.

 

[jfanning]

Incidentally the AppleTV *does* sell HD content in the UK.

That is Apples problem, the AppleTV is an expensive solution for just being able to rent a movie.