The market agrees with you. And I think Apple accepts that it was the wrong product.
A replacement product needs to be very different.
C.
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Steve Jobs Suggests Blu-ray Not Coming to Mac Anytime Soon
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The market agrees with you. And I think Apple accepts that it was the wrong product.
A replacement product needs to be very different.
C.
Precisely. It needs to be about the same price as a DVD player to have any chance of replacing optical disks. Can you imagine Apple selling ATVs for about £30?! Hell would freeze over before they ever did such a thing.
Then why doesn't Apple just support us strange folk who might want to play Blu-ray movies on the mac if it's such a non-issue to their mainstream plans?
I said movies... all I see is available on the UK iTunes store in HD is TV content.
Here's my crazy-ass prediction about the next Apple TV.
It will be free.
(with a content-subscription contract)
But the commercial goal is not really to compete with DVD players. Or BluRay players. The money isn't really there. The goal will be to offer an alternative to satellite and cable broadcasters.
C.
I guess because it thinks the small audience does not justify the large licensing fees.
The AppleTV sees a different content store. Most of the movies are offered in two versions.
And yes, that is nuts.
C.
Maybe even less, you can purchase a DVD player in New Zealand for NZ$35 (about £15), the AppleTV is NZ$429 (not much cheaper than I got a PS3 for)
I'd love to have BluRay in my future Mac, not all of us have access to unlimited high speed broadband Steve. Also what next we'll need multi Tb HDDs to store all our movies and if we want to take one over to a friends well we're out of luck, unless they want to watch it on the iPod.
I was wondering with VLC will that allow a BluRay drive to work on the Mac?
I was wondering with VLC will that allow a BluRay drive to work on the Mac?
This ongoing debate is pointless. Who cares whether or not you or any of you friends want a mac with bluray, a matte display or a quad-core processor?
There is a market for it. There is far more of a market for blurays than there are for downloads at the moment. Eventually downloads will overtake bluray, but Jobs is clearly only denying us bluray in a vain (at least for the 50% of ppl on these forums who can think for themselves) attempt to convince 5% of the computer market that it is somehow a fledgling format and that "the people" want digital downloads.
I have owned projectors since 1997. People are increasingly less impressed by them as they have recently become far more common. HT enthusiasts will always be chasing higher resolution because PQ is so important on 50"+ screens (I have a 200" screen, and HD downloads on my Apple TV are NOT worth £4.49/showing when I can buy a bluray for £10).
I think the biggest hypocrisy with the zealots is the idea that anybody who wants a physical product is living in the past. If the sort of nerdy people who are drawn to apple's products aren't also the same sort of people who are drawn to collector's edition boxsets, how come Apple puts more effort into its packaging than ANYONE and Apple fans post more unboxing videos than all other consumer brands combined?
The idea that bluray is too expensive for the mainstream is ridiculous considering that most of you are advocating spending $1000s on Drobos and HDs, high-speed unlimited internet just to be able to build up and maintain these libraries before Apple gets around to charging you more to rent an HD download than my local video store does to hire a bluray, let alone how much cheaper it is to go with Lovefilm/Netflix et al. NEWSFLASH: You spent almost $2000 on a laptop without a gfx card (or a bluray drive): you are not mainstream.
There is a market for it. There is far more of a market for blurays than there are for downloads at the moment. Eventually downloads will overtake bluray, but Jobs is clearly only denying us bluray in a vain (at least for the 50% of ppl on these forums who can think for themselves) attempt to convince 5% of the computer market that it is somehow a fledgling format and that "the people" want digital downloads.
I have owned projectors since 1997. People are increasingly less impressed by them as they have recently become far more common. HT enthusiasts will always be chasing higher resolution because PQ is so important on 50"+ screens (I have a 200" screen, and HD downloads on my Apple TV are NOT worth £4.49/showing when I can buy a bluray for £10).
I think the biggest hypocrisy with the zealots is the idea that anybody who wants a physical product is living in the past. If the sort of nerdy people who are drawn to apple's products aren't also the same sort of people who are drawn to collector's edition boxsets, how come Apple puts more effort into its packaging than ANYONE and Apple fans post more unboxing videos than all other consumer brands combined?
The idea that bluray is too expensive for the mainstream is ridiculous considering that most of you are advocating spending $1000s on Drobos and HDs, high-speed unlimited internet just to be able to build up and maintain these libraries before Apple gets around to charging you more to rent an HD download than my local video store does to hire a bluray, let alone how much cheaper it is to go with Lovefilm/Netflix et al. NEWSFLASH: You spent almost $2000 on a laptop without a gfx card (or a bluray drive): you are not mainstream.
I agree there is a market for BR DVD as there is with downloads of movies, just like iTunes MS lives along side real music stores where you can still buy CDs (which I bet Jobs hates LOL) The only reason I buy many DVDs and now BR are for the extras which you simply don't get with the DL copies.
IMO (and probably countless others) the iMac with a BR drive would be fantastic. full HD movies on a disc played on a compact computer which could be using in you living room, if you have limited space. That aside there is also the added archiving ability the new format offers, even with cheap external HDDs.
The BR disc are not much more than DVD now, the players are down to affordable levels, Panasonic even offers a BR recorder in one of it's PVRs. Come on Jobs, bring us BluRay oh and while were on it a touchscreen iMac would be nice
IMO (and probably countless others) the iMac with a BR drive would be fantastic. full HD movies on a disc played on a compact computer which could be using in you living room, if you have limited space. That aside there is also the added archiving ability the new format offers, even with cheap external HDDs.
The BR disc are not much more than DVD now, the players are down to affordable levels, Panasonic even offers a BR recorder in one of it's PVRs. Come on Jobs, bring us BluRay oh and while were on it a touchscreen iMac would be nice
You know nothing about Britain. Modern technology? Frowned upon? Really, have you ever been there? Britain, along with most of Europe, has much better broadband infrastructure, higher mobile phone market penetration rates, and better public transportation, not that it has anything to do with Macs, but it's some of that modern technology you claim the British don't like. Meanwhile, parts of the US can't even get broadband and are stuck on dial up. And some who can get broadband also have caps. I think you're confusing the British with the Amish. I know, it's confusing. They both end with ish. But there is a difference, I assure you.
Hard drives are unreliable compared to optical discs. If I have important data, I'm burning it to back it up.
You must live next to the only Wal-Mart in the world that doesn't sell Blu-rays.
$800 million is a drop in the bucket compared to what it needed to wire the entire country for broadband. Some people will always be stuck on dial up (not by choice), no matter how much the infrastructure improves.
And this is where you discredit yourself (as if you haven't already). A 404 error has absolutely nothing to do with your ISP. And if you're calling your ISP every time you get a 404 error to complain to them, I really feel sorry for their tech support department.
And considering Blu-ray quality video requires more than 20mbps, I guess that 7-20Mbps line won't work. The crap Apple streams to you is 720p compressed garbage.
No, some people just live in rural areas and aren't able to get broadband. I'm not sure if you've ever wandered outside of whatever big city you live in where you're able to get an eleventy billion Mbps backbone connection, but if you do, you'll see that not everyone lives in big cities. My boss at my former job has dial up, not by choice, she wants broadband, but she lives on a farm in a rural area. I guess if she wants to watch high def video, she should just pack up and move to the city, right? I find it pretty insulting that you're insinuating that those on dial-up live in caves and eat mice for breakfast. Perhaps you're the one living in the cave if you actually think every single person in the US has broadband available to them.
I just know the industry inside and out, sorry to make you into a fool.
No you don't.
Who's this "we" you speak of. Not everyone in the US has flat rate unlimited bandwidth. Some ISPs in the US have caps. I know, you're probably shocked to hear that.
Not true. Blu-ray is starting to outsell DVD. And again, I also find it insulting that you're calling areas where schools use PCs "very backwards". My high school and college both used PCs and my area is anywhere but backwards.
My local Wal-Mart sells Blu-ray and I assure you it's not in the ghetto, far from it.
Mind backing that up? I assure you I can afford the bandwidth, in fact, I pay for an 18mbps connection, and yet I still won't buy into Apple's barely-HD garbage they sell. I buy Blu-ray. So do you mind backing up your statement about BR selling poorly in areas with fast internet connections? I doubt you can. It's just more lies you pulled out of thin air.
Movie studios couldn't give a damn what media you buy, as long as you buy it. And this may come as a shock to you, but not everyone owns exclusively Apple devices so we don't want something locked into exclusively Apple devices. At least with Blu-ray I can rip a movie and have a DRM-free copy of it for playback on any device of my choosing. Can't do that with Apple's faux-HD downloads.
I guess we should take away all Macs belonging to dial up users, right? After all, they're not part of Apple's culture as you say. I couldn't blame any dial-up users who refuse to buy a Mac after reading a condescending post like that.
Oh, and you may think you know what's best for Apple, but here's an excellent example of people on the internet thinking they know what's best for Apple.
But renting movies is only 1 of about 40 features of the AppleTV. So value wise, the AppleTV is the top product Apple sells, it's wonderful.
I remember those debates.
There were some very heated discussions between the MP3 proponents versus the MiniDisk brigade.
I just had read of some of them... and there's something oddly familiar.
Can't put my finger on it.
I wonder how it worked out?
C.
Where? Everyone here agrees BR died in the market, so it's clear you don't get around much... next thing you'll probably tell me is "oil companies" are hiding super secret carburetor designs in their vaults!
"Here" must be the moon, because here on earth Blu-ray is exploding exponentially.
And of course I'd never tell you oil companies buy up competing technologies and sit on them... they're all Buddhist, you know, run by Buddhists for the good of the planet. Oil companies are not about money; never have been.
Especially BP. Why, the Gulf disaster is simply their attempt to fertilize the oceans.
As your posts are attempts to fertilize macrumours with similar poisonous excrement.
LOL, I would be the last person giving a rat's ass about people's sexuality nor their religion.So in real life, if you meet someone who has a different belief to you, or a different religion or sexuality. You don't actually need to attack them. Just tolerate the rich differences of the world.
But I will always be fighting for higher quality over crapenience, no matter how instantly available.
For a long time Apple used to stand for cutting edge technology and quality. But unfortunately this has been turning into convenient fast food for the masses...
"Think different" has become "good enough".
Just like YouTube, iTunes movies are not so bad for killing time with an iPad while on the road. But if you are looking for a genuine cineastic experience, the quality is so embarrassingly poor, it seems like a total waste of time. And yes, my time is indeed way too precious, to be wasted on garbage.
You seem to consume movies basically to kill time, while we quality nerds and movie aficionados really want to enjoy them with all our senses.
But unfortunately Apple is not willing to allow us such a quality experience. At least not with their products, despite with the technology being available for years.
Do you mind telling me what those 40 features are? I can name a few like
Stream media
Store media
Play media
Rent media
Buy media
Watch YouTube and erm........
Watching movies is the least compelling reason ever to put a Bluray drive in a Mac. People who really care about their movies dont watch them on their computer anyways. If youre about experience, youre going to have a home theater with a Bluray player setup.
I can understand those that want burning capabilities, but thats dealt with externally for now in an adequate fashion (I understand its more annoying that built-in, but surely if its that important, then an external burner is a small tradeoff). Theres no major benefits to putting a Bluray player in a Mac though, if youre truly a movie aficionado.
jW
I've been to Britain countless times, it's a technological backwater. They even have "caps" on how much data you get each month, what is the deal with that? Are they still living in the dark ages? There is simply no way they have better broadband, it's not even up to the level the US was in 2002. And who uses a "modem" on a Mac... Apple doesn't even sell computers with modems and hasn't for years.
Hard drives are less reliable than optical disks? That's HILARIOUS!
The $800 million is for rural areas, it's not for the whole country. Anyone with a telephone can get broadband, so again the UK is behind. I haven't seen anyone with dialup for at least 7 years, so it sounds like your boss lives in a primitive area.
You were inferring it was a "connection error" with a 404, so I explained if that was the case, your ISP was who to contact. Your error, not mine.
Nonsense, there are no caps in the US, sure there is probably some discounted plan that you can ask to have a cap, but 99% of accounts are unlimited. We have a far more robust infrastructure here don't forget.
What Mac user would still have a modem? You're basically making no sense, so let's end it here.
And a few things to note....
So, for a little bit more money, you can have a device that does nearly everything the ATV does, and plays the latest and greatest games, or you can get the ATV, lose the gaming capabilities, and get a device that lets you Rickroll someone in HD.
I'll take the 360 or PS3.
http://gizmodo.com/5043253/comcasts-250gb-data-caps-now-official-starting-in-october
And no, not anyone with a telephone line can get broadband.
No, she lives on a farm, in a rural area, with other farmers, busting their ass to provide you with the food you eat.
Again, http://gizmodo.com/5043253/comcasts-250gb-data-caps-now-official-starting-in-october
One of the biggest ISPs in the US has a cap. Other providers are also considering caps.
So, for a little bit more money, you can have a device that does nearly everything the ATV does, and plays the latest and greatest games, or you can get the ATV, lose the gaming capabilities, and get a device that lets you Rickroll someone in HD.
I'll take the 360 or PS3.
http://gizmodo.com/5043253/comcasts-250gb-data-caps-now-official-starting-in-october
Neither do PC manufacturers but that doesn't negate the fact that people are on dial-up. There are USB modems available for both PC and Mac for those who need it
Right. Hard drives never fail
News flash: Rural areas make up most of the whole country.
And no, not anyone with a telephone line can get broadband.
No, she lives on a farm, in a rural area, with other farmers, busting their ass to provide you with the food you eat.
404 is not a connection error. It's page can't be found. That has nothing to do with the ISP. If you meant connection error, then you should've said that, but even then, most connection errors are not at the ISP end, but at the website's end. Your error, not mine.
Again, http://gizmodo.com/5043253/comcasts-250gb-data-caps-now-official-starting-in-october
One of the biggest ISPs in the US has a cap. Other providers are also considering caps.
A Mac user who lives on a farm, doing more work in a single day than you'll ever do in your entire life.
I'm making no sense? You're the one who lives in fantasy land where everyone lives in the big city and has broadband.
Could you please explain why as of a recent survey 40% of US citizens still do not have a broadband connection? You are trying to make it sound like everyone has a broadband connection except for people who live in the middle of the Rocky Mountains.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-10454133-94.html
Wirelessly stream your Photos, wirelessly stream your Music, Watch Podcasts, Audiobooks, publish your hard drive to your TV, listen to Radio, use Boxee, Watch movie trailers, surf the internet, setup fav actor, actress, etc searches, view your mobile me sites, use flicker, youtube, pull in torrents, nitoTV, use XBMC, use AirTunes, surf iTunes, set parental controls, control it from your iPad or iPhone, watch HD movies, watch HD TV and many more...
I know who macdrew is. It's That ambiguously straight guy that used to be a symbol and before that called Prince :
http://www.mirror.co.uk/celebs/news...side-the-star-s-secret-world-115875-22382552/
You read it here folks. The Internet is dead.
Seriously though, I don't get why some people need to polarize stuff. Black or White, Black or White. Internet streaming and digital downloads are here, they'll increase in popularity as Internet infrastructure gets deployed to support them. Blu-ray is here, it's doing phenomenal in the market, with an adoptation rate higher than DVDs and it's already ahead of digital downloads. There's a piece of the pie for everyone.
Hardware makers and vendors support both. The PS3 is the best Blu-ray player, yet they offer content streaming from uPNP servers. Same for many of the Blu-ray players out there that are network enabled. It seems only Apple likes this Black or White thing. I think that's why a lot of Apple fans are like that. Steve is just one big overgrown fanboy.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/celebs/news...side-the-star-s-secret-world-115875-22382552/
You read it here folks. The Internet is dead.
Seriously though, I don't get why some people need to polarize stuff. Black or White, Black or White. Internet streaming and digital downloads are here, they'll increase in popularity as Internet infrastructure gets deployed to support them. Blu-ray is here, it's doing phenomenal in the market, with an adoptation rate higher than DVDs and it's already ahead of digital downloads. There's a piece of the pie for everyone.
Hardware makers and vendors support both. The PS3 is the best Blu-ray player, yet they offer content streaming from uPNP servers. Same for many of the Blu-ray players out there that are network enabled. It seems only Apple likes this Black or White thing. I think that's why a lot of Apple fans are like that. Steve is just one big overgrown fanboy.
and 35% of that 40% don't even have a computer, so you are talking about 5% on dial up.
I thought a lot about the quality issue in this discussion. Because, despite what you may think, I am quite passionate about movies. I like cinema, and get really annoyed with the poor quality of projection we get in the theatres.
A lot of theatres run their bulbs at half brightness to save money!
But the thing I like about cinema is narrative, story and emotion. And the way film-makers deliver that, is actually by *removing* visual information. Cinematographers often use a shallow depth of field to focus attention on the character - and blur the background away. Lighting is used to direct attention away from the irrelevant and onto the subject.
Lame-ass cinematography shows up in the Phantom Menace where the backgrounds are filled with moving detail - what a stupidly utterly distracting decision. These characters are so boring, so lets fill the frame with crap.
Or the abysmal Transformers movies, which feature action in such overblown detail, you end up with a headache just looking at it.
If you think about your favourite moments in cinema, those moments were not a result of visual detail, but were about emotion.
So, here's a controversial statement: From an entertainment point of view - and by that, I mean from the point of view of someone wanting to experience the story and magic of cinema, I find DVD quality quite good. I find the additional detail of 720p a little better for some movies. Especially those with wider panoramas. And I find 1080p a bit too sharp. Too distracting, except in certain types of movie which benefit.
I know. What I just said was heresy! I deserve to be flogged for what I uttered.
But talk to a cinematographer, and the last thing they want when telling a story is overwhelming amount of visual detail. Often, their goal is to use focus and lighting to simplify images so that they resonate on an emotional level.
I hate British TV drama with a passion. They shoot it with video cameras, with tiny sensors, which means EVERYTHING IS IN FOCUS. You can read the signs behind actors, see what brand of light switch is there. It's distracting and undermines the story.
So there, I said it. I really don't think a 1080p is actually a much better experience than a 720p movie. Because all of that crisp boiling detail can actually be distracting. When you watch the Bourne Identity, you want to be looking at the emotional interaction between Bourne and Marie - not identifying the species of cockroach on the wall behind them.
So I choose not to watch my tee-vee from 6 feet away, so that I can read the registration plates in a car chase. I prefer to take in the whole scene.
That's just me. I love quality, but I am not convinced that gigantic amounts of pixels has much to do with quality.
Of course. There are people who care passionately about their home cinemas, love the extra pixels and would pay to get 4K content, were it available. Some of them don't even have aspergers syndrome!
That is of course cool. And no one wants to stop them.
C.
And do you think they're on dial-up by choice, especially when dial-up can be close to the same price as broadband?
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