Switched from Macbook Pro to Framework?

[glen-the-grey]

I’m well aware of the reference but that statement combined with “Do your own research” is a bit off the mark with the implication being I have not (when in fact I have) ergo I found it to be an offensive comment. Living in a liberal democracy I am at liberty to take offence as much as you are to cause it, if it were by intention, unintentional or somewhat underhanded.

But all that aside I still would like to know what you are doing differently to your Linux distribution which is giving you the impression that you are under imminent threat from an attack over Port 22. I think we could all benefit from that knowledge.

 

[Steve Adams]

Ahhhh the "do your own research" tag. I love that one. There are two meanings of this catch phrase.

1. A guy on the interwebs somewhere told me..........
2. I got nothing but stuff I heard on said interwebs..........

 

[ClaraStahlbaum]

I have wanted a Linux computer for quite some time. I have been looking into switching away from Apple, but I just don't quite seem to have the gumption to do it just yet. It would be quite a process to transfer everything from my Mac to a Linux computer. I would likely have to buy a new keyboard and mouse, as my current ones are Apple.

That begs the question, what Linux computer would I switch to? I could just buy a Windows Computer and put Ubuntu on it, but then that would still have the same feeling as a Windows Computer, because it would be one. Apple pulls off the "feel" of the ecosystem quite well - and it has easily trapped me within it.

Framework looks quite good. Problem is, it comes at a steep price I may not be willing to pay. Then there is the longevity factor - how long could such a laptop be expected to last for? How long can the company last for? Apple will be around forever, but these other companies seem kind of "transitory" to me? I don't know.

 

[maflynn]

That begs the question, what Linux computer would I switch to?

If it was me, I'd not look for a "Linux" computer but rather find a computer that is well made, good support, and warranty, and is generally compatible to Linux

I think there's a big difference between a Thinkpad laptop that you can install Linux on, vs. a System 76 laptop that is marketed as a Linux laptop. I want a quality laptop for a good price that has a very good reputation.

Personally, I'd look for Thinkpds and some other Lenovo laptops, Dell is considered a good laptop to use Linux, though their customer support may not seem all that great.

Generally speaking, you'll have an easier time if you stick with AMD over Nividia, there's better driver support on the AMD side of things.

 

[Steve Adams]

System 76 and tuxedo systems are extremely high quality systems.

I'm actually thinking of getting a 14 tux and running 11 on just becuase the system gives me everything I want.

 

[maflynn]

System 76

I've seen complaints about system 76, which is why I used them against the thinkpad. I think the distro they use is fantastic, I've used PopOS and its a better experience then Ubuntu imo, but given the pricing of laptops, I'd be a bit more hesitant

 

[Steve Adams]

I have heard nothing but good about those. Same with Lenovo too. Can't go wrong. Asus finally made my laptop but wow is it expensive. Zephryus 14 2026.

 

[capamac]

I have wanted a Linux computer for quite some time. I have been looking into switching away from Apple, but I just don't quite seem to have the gumption to do it just yet.

Can also use UTM on your current Mac to run a Linux distro if your goal is to tinker with linux a bit deciding whether or not to fully dive in.

Linux will also run on any older PC/Mac hardware you may happen to have around.

 

[maflynn]

I have heard nothing but good about those.

I frequent their reddit sub and its more complaints then praises

r/System76

System76 proudly engineers and manufactures premium Linux computers and keyboards at our factory in Denver, Colorado. Our user-driven products alongside Pop!_OS give creators, makers, and builders the means to bring forth the future.

www.reddit.com

Whereas the thinkpad sub has a good balance of praises and complaints.

r/thinkpad

IBM and Lenovo ThinkPad laptop enthusiasts!

www.reddit.com

Edit
I was always a fan of system 76 but I noticed more critical type posts starting last year. Maybe they’re fine but from what I see in Reddit, I wanted to pass that on

 

[BSDnostalgia]

This seems kinda strange to me. Presumably, these people are choosing to upgrade an older M-series MacBook Pro, not to a M5, but to a Framework 13" Pro with Ubuntu pre-loaded?

I may get back again into Linux-on-an-x86-tower just to play a few games and keep the den warm in the winter. (Next winter). No hurry. I plan on waiting until after the AI consolidation/monopolization occurs. As far as laptops, probably will continue to be stuck with one just to run W11 to run 2-3 apps. No point in wasting time on it. For everything else portable, it'll be MacOS for now. But, if I do get a Linux laptop, it will be on ARM, not x86. And, a cool, low power, minimal graphics, preferably air-cooled ARM laptop. Suggestions?

 

[pigeonguy]

I've been on the cusp of this for a long time. I think it's people that are tired of the MacOS/Windows duopoly and want a native Linux laptop. Framework seems to do a good job of making sure the typical Linux distros work well on their hardware, but the hardware's not cheap.

After switching my non-Macs to Linux in an attempt to ditch Microslop products... It's not worth it.

To be frank, Linux sucks lol. I've tried many distros and desktop environments and there's always issues. Nothing ever "just works". Simple tasks, yes. and these days, even a lot of games (mostly). But I couldn't use it for genuine productivity. This isn't really a user issue either - I'm a massive nerd, software engineer and have used Linux for decades.

It's improved over the years, sure. Much, much better than it used to be... but it still doesn't feel like a good match for most every day users.

I even watched my partner have to spend hours troubleshooting his rig when somehow a system update went wrong and it was left in a non-booting state - and he's a bigger nerd than I am.

I know Windows and macOS has their problems, but I'd take those over what I've experienced trying to run Linux as a daily driver.

Plus, I've heard Framework laptops feel extremely cheap and have had some build quality issues.

 

[Steve Adams]

After switching my non-Macs to Linux in an attempt to ditch Microslop products... It's not worth it.

To be frank, Linux sucks lol. I've tried many distros and desktop environments and there's always issues. Nothing ever "just works". Simple tasks, yes. and these days, even a lot of games (mostly). But I couldn't use it for genuine productivity. This isn't really a user issue either - I'm a massive nerd, software engineer and have used Linux for decades.

It's improved over the years, sure. Much, much better than it used to be... but it still doesn't feel like a good match for most every day users.

I even watched my partner have to spend hours troubleshooting his rig when somehow a system update went wrong and it was left in a non-booting state - and he's a bigger nerd than I am.

I know Windows and macOS has their problems, but I'd take those over what I've experienced trying to run Linux as a daily driver.

Plus, I've heard Framework laptops feel extremely cheap and have had some build quality issues.

I have come to the same conclusion. Windows, it is, come good or bad. I don't like the way MacOS works, so for me...windows until it's no longer available or until I die.

 

[dmr727]

I've been happy with CachyOS, but I don't ask a lot of it - mainly it's a good looking launch platform for Steam. 😉 All my productivity stuff still happens on my M4 Air.

Once my Air gets old enough for me to consider replacing it, I might approach the decision to use Linux exclusively, but I'm sure the landscape will look different in a few years.

 

[BSDnostalgia]

I don't like the way MacOS works

Care to be specific what you are talking about? Because, for my purposes, Windows has taken 20 years to catch up to where Snow Leopard was. And now, Apple has a tremendous advantage with AS over x86-64.

 

[capamac]

I think Apple's head has gotten too big. Liquid Glass is not good design. Ads in Maps. Bugs in macOS. Slow performance in macOS. Touch UI in macOS apparently on the way. Finder windows too puffed-up. System preferences now iPhone-style vertical layout. Icons prefixing text in menus. Over iOS-ification of macOS. Monthly subscriptions for formerly non-subscription applications. Too much telemetry. Hardware non-upgradeable and too difficult to open. Batteries glued onto cases. Apple has hands in too many pies: TV, movies, desktop/laptop OS, mobile OS, headphones, watches, books, credit cards. It's focus is spread across so many areas that's why macOS suffers. Basically: Fat Elvis. Apple should be broken up like Ma Bell in the 1980s.

 

[BSDnostalgia]

Personally, I'd look for Thinkpds and some other Lenovo laptops, Dell is considered a good laptop to use Linux, though their customer support may not seem all that great.

I've had the best luck with ASUS myself. But, I haven't seen anything from Lenovo, Acer, Dell, or ASUS that is consistently as high quality as Apple. But then, until now, you couldn't buy a $600-$700 laptop from Apple, either, so comparisons have been Apples vs. ? Lemons? (Sorry).

 

[BSDnostalgia]

Agree with many of your points. Up to a point:

Apple should be broken up like Ma Bell in the 1980s.

Break up Apple which way? It doesn't have a monopoly in any area. And, as you say, software "cohesion" is deteriorating, so, market share will probably decline anyway.

What could happen is that other systems companies could try harder to compete with Apple on quality. And that, IMHO, means dumping Windows and x86, and producing quality ARM-based hardware running a quality, supportable and supported, version of -- Linux probably.

 

[capamac]

Break it into a:
Desktop/laptop division.
Mobile division.
News/Books/movies/TV media division.
Watch divisiion.
Credit card division. Etc.

 

[maflynn]

I've been happy with CachyOS, but I don't ask a lot of it - mainly it's a good looking launch platform for Steam. 😉 All my productivity stuff still happens on my M4 Air.

Agreed, its been a great experience and its a solid, stable OS

Apple should be broken up like Ma Bell in the 1980s.

Ma bell was broken up because they were a monopoly, they controlled nearly everything related to phones, local and long distance, the phones the wires. They purposely and willingly prohihited competition

Conversely, Apple is but one of many computer companies offering similar products and services. They are nothing close to a monopoly. Don't like what they're doing, there's plenty of alternatives. Didn't like AT&T, back in the 1970s (and before), there was not much you could do about it. It was them and only them

 

[Sully]

I think Apple's head has gotten too big. Liquid Glass is not good design. Ads in Maps. Bugs in macOS. Slow performance in macOS. Touch UI in macOS apparently on the way. Finder windows too puffed-up. System preferences now iPhone-style vertical layout. Icons refixing text in menus. Over iOS-ification of macOS. Monthly subscriptions for formerly non-subscription applications. Too much telemetry. Hardware non-upgradeable and too difficult to open. Batteries glued onto cases. Apple has hands in too many pies: TV, movies, desktop/laptop OS, mobile OS, headphones, watches, books, credit cards. It's focus is spread across so many areas that's why macOS suffers. Basically: Fat Elvis. Apple should be broken up like Ma Bell in the 1980s.

You have some fair criticisms. But, the market doesn’t agree with you. When it does and there’s an alternative that consumers see as a better solution, Apple will be “broken up” based on declining demand.

I’d like to break away from my dependence on Apple. But, right now they have some of the best hardware and second best privacy and security available. I don’t think I’m prepared for the friction of GrapheneOS and, while I’m seriously considering Linux, recent comments from people with a lot more knowledge than I have are making me second guess myself.

In short, the market is still voting for Apple. Until then, there won’t be any “break up.”

 

[Steve Adams]

Care to be specific what you are talking about? Because, for my purposes, Windows has taken 20 years to catch up to where Snow Leopard was. And now, Apple has a tremendous advantage with AS over x86-64.

I don't like the finger gymnastics you need to do to control MacOS, I don't like it's managing of multitasking, Don't like how it scales, Don't like it's file management structure, One button magic mouse is absolute ergonomic trash. Apple silicon is not an issue. I bought my current laptop the same year the M1 came out. The only thing the M series had on me was about 3 hrs of real world battery life. Processes that I use are just as fast on either system. within 10 sec or less either way. No big deal for me.

 

[capamac]

Apple used to be the underdog and I've always had a soft spot for underdogs. Which is probably why I'm less fond of Apple-Microsoft and increasingly fond of Linux/BSD these days. Plus the "freedom" aspect of Linux/BSD vs non-free corpo-capitalist Apple-Microsoft.

Like Elvis in his later years or Tiger Woods today (Mr. DUI) ... when you've reached significant wealth and popularity it's so easy to let that go to one's head, you lose that groundedness.

 

[TechnoMonk]

You have some fair criticisms. But, the market doesn’t agree with you. When it does and there’s an alternative that consumers see as a better solution, Apple will be “broken up” based on declining demand.

I’d like to break away from my dependence on Apple. But, right now they have some of the best hardware and second best privacy and security available. I don’t think I’m prepared for the friction of GrapheneOS and, while I’m seriously considering Linux, recent comments from people with a lot more knowledge than I have are making me second guess myself.

In short, the market is still voting for Apple. Until then, there won’t be any “break up.”

You should try Linux as desktop. And evaluate how it works but it’s not like grass is greener. And if you like to tinker first step is harden the os.

I have known folks who have used system 76 for more than a decade, it’s just that their systems are so bulky. I knew a guy who would carry a big laptop with 64 GB RAM in 2015, it was more like mobile desktop with screen. Their support was good but not even close to Apple. I usually recommend Mac or windows for laptop, Linux is not worth it unless you go with some one like system 76.

 

[lowendlinux]

That was a lot of tense comments for something no one has to purchase and even if you do you can install Windows if it gives you a pants tent.

 

[Pacific1972]

I don't understand the requirements for a notebook like this, and I'm deliberately playing dumb here !

Is this supposed to be a comparison like between the Nothing Phone and iPhone ?
The advantage that matters in that context might actually work in favor of the Framework Notebook.

The operating system, the hardware (and - in my opinion - the software as well), and the depreciation
don’t speak in favor of the Framework Notebook. People don’t know this crap, so disappointment is
guaranteed when it comes time to resell it !

​

Yeah, I know that this is funny ! 🤣 ...it’s just like when the MacBook Neo 👍 package hit the market and most
Notebook manufacturers had no answer 😉 - ("oh, let’s build a Snapdragon Elite notebook with Windows 11 ARM
- and an Android version 😴 for retirees too !" - that’s all just pure nonsense from these 🤮 millionaire CEOs ! Ridiculous !
Perhaps it's cheaper to buy a Raspberry Pi ...you can also tinker around with it and end up blowing it into the corner 🤣