Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Given the software I need for work isn't available on Linux, it can only ever be a toy for me. Given that, is there a distro that will run well in VMWare Fusion on my M3 Pro? I won't have to do anything useful, it would be just to see what things are like since I tried to use it seriously in the past.
 
I agree. Even though I would like to completely get rid of Adobe, I cannot it seems. I still pay for the photographer sub that includes Photoshop. I have switched to Affinity for Illustrator needs, however -- I find their pen tool to be more superior. Also, the new (free) Affinity standalone software that combines all of their previous builds is incredible. BUT I can get stuff done extremely quickly with Photoshop as I have used it most of my life, as opposed to Affinity where I still have to stop and look up how to do certain things.
If people can see past the price tag, which I don't think is so crazy, there are so many Photoshop tutorials on YouTube showing how to get tricky stuff done. After all, people spend thousands on the hardware. But seem stingy on paying for powerful software tools.

For special stuff, there is better standalone software, e.g. wrt. upscaling or panorama stitching or focus bracketing, but Photoshop does a decent job on many things - so I don't break out the special tools until I really need them.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Cape Dave
Sure but I’m not giving up 100K a year in income just because some random unemployed neet on the internet told me to use Linux and Wine with a pirate copy of Affinity on a fragile Framework computer.
wow, how you draw conclusions Random unemployed need. Sounds like your 100k a year is BS more like it. I will not argue anymore with you and I am not wanting to get banned, but speaking of BS.
 
  • Like
Reactions: robvalentine
If the "AI" bros are correct, in a few years anyone even those without any programming experience will be able to just ask their "AI" to create any Adobe- or Microsoft-level application in a few seconds.

If they're right, then every softare company in the world will pretty much go bankrupt.
Why would you ask your AI to create an Adobe-level application if you can just ask it to create or manipulate the image, i.e. directly do what you would have needed the application for?
 
  • Like
Reactions: lostPod
Base Linux installation for most flavors is begging to be hacked.
I'm not convinced that is true. Can you provide more evidence of this?

And regarding the OpenSSH vulnerability, yes it existed for a long time but it has now been patched. Also, opening port 22 and doing SSH is not mandatory for many tasks (editing documents, e-mails, browsing the web, etc.,) can all be done just fine without a remote connection over SSH.

Also I would say that hardening on many Linux based distributions is not any harder or easier than other operating systems—you still have to go through the same set of processes, checks and verification and much of it is to do with mindset. If you wanted to investigate further though both SUSE and RHEL have FIPS-140 compliant default installs. The difference with Linux is that I can create a BASH script and it will run through the hardening steps completely to make a system compliant—I have done this for servers and desktops/laptops and it works very well and is easy to deploy.
 
Using Word is friction-free.
At the company I currently work for we can't even get Word documents to display consistently between different computers even running the same version of Word! One guy always has blue headers and nobody (not even IT) can work out why.
 
Let’s not delude ourselves into believing that Linux is commercially viable for big companies to develop for
Erm...IBM anyone? Google? Amazon? Loads of big companies use and develop for Linux...you just might not see it in front of you day-to-day

I really don't get why you would run Linux on the desktop.
Funny...I can't understand why people are so enamoured with Windows. I have been using Linux as a desktop since 1997 and have found most of the "facts" about it to be false over the years. I use Linux or macOS when I want to and use Windows when other people tell me to.

Linux had its moment to shine at one specific point in history and it failed
Have you seen the market share of Android? Also I suspect most supercomputers and servers run a Linux based distribution these days.

I’m trying to make an informed decision before I do something stupid.
Give it a go and make up your own mind. I would start with Mint or Ubuntu (even Debian is quite easy these days but you still use the command line for some stuff in Debian whereas Ubuntu and Mint you can do things with graphical tools). Some things are different, some things are similar, some things you might love and some things you might hate but there isn't anybody online who can tell you what those things are...what I can tell you is that broadly speaking the security of Linux based distributions, Windows, macOS, BSDs are all pretty equivalent despite the naysayers. They all have some holes and these holes all have patches that are applied on a regular basis—if you keep patching you will be OK (Windows does this by force, macOS and Linux you have more control over when/if you install updates). What you tend to find is that macOS and Windows are patched quietly whereas any flaws with Linux are publicly disected at length which spooks some new users.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Steve Adams
Erm...IBM anyone? Google? Amazon? Loads of big companies use and develop for Linux...you just might not see it in front of you day-to-day


Funny...I can't understand why people are so enamoured with Windows. I have been using Linux as a desktop since 1997 and have found most of the "facts" about it to be false over the years. I use Linux or macOS when I want to and use Windows when other people tell me to.


Have you seen the market share of Android? Also I suspect most supercomputers and servers run a Linux based distribution these days.


Give it a go and make up your own mind. I would start with Mint or Ubuntu (even Debian is quite easy these days but you still use the command line for some stuff in Debian whereas Ubuntu and Mint you can do things with graphical tools). Some things are different, some things are similar, some things you might love and some things you might hate but there isn't anybody online who can tell you what those things are...what I can tell you is that broadly speaking the security of Linux based distributions, Windows, macOS, BSDs are all pretty equivalent despite the naysayers. They all have some holes and these holes all have patches that are applied on a regular basis—if you keep patching you will be OK (Windows does this by force, macOS and Linux you have more control over when/if you install updates). What you tend to find is that macOS and Windows are patched quietly whereas any flaws with Linux are publicly disected at length which spooks some new users.
Yep, give it a go, worst thing could happen is that you find out it's not for you and your workflow. That's what happened to me. I loaded it, did all the work arounds to get affinity suite working on my system. Did some work, it didn't work, I know now that I am on windows for good. For better or worse. It is what it is, and I am at peace now knowing that the Grass while a different shade of green.....is not "greener".

It would be exactly the same if I tried to move to MacOS again, for the fourth time. Windows is what I am used to, it's what I know and it's what my family is staying with for our personal and business ventures. I have all the software on my windows systems and it works. Nothing more to do then just carry on and move forward.
 
May be buying one of these to replace my MPB once I've seen some reviews. Every time Apple pisses me off I'm moving something to a Debian Linux desktop machine I have here. The only things that are remaining on the Mac so far is Lightroom, which is being ported away slowly to Darktable and Apple Music which is getting replaced with FLACs slowly. I expect to be off the platform by end of year. The iPhone might hold out for a bit longer but a Pixel with Graphene looks like a viable replacement (I have a 7A already which is not quite good enough so might get a later handset).

I'll add this migration is NOT suitable for most people. I've been a Linux user and systems programmer for about 30 years so I already know the platform extremely well.

I will note the iPad, Apple Watch, HomePods and airtags went already this year.
 
Have you seen the market share of Android? Also I suspect most supercomputers and servers run a Linux based distribution these days.
The context was “on the desktop.”

Android is so abstracted that it barely counts as Linux anymore. That’s a bit like saying that iOS is NextStep.

I’ve never argued against the utility of Linux on servers which is where it does shine.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Luftkopf
Nope, I will never switch to Desktop Linux since I find the experience pretty terrible for various reasons. This is after trying it several times from the early 2000s in virtual machines with the early versions of Red Hat Linux and even going so far to installing Gentoo Linux.

First of all, the user experience is probably the worse compared to macOS and Windows. Gimp is probably the best example of a very unintuitive and terrible UX, while lacking in features compared to Photoshop. Gnome 3 is also very unintuitive to use that I end up using KDE. Even so, it takes a lot of tweaking just to get the system working. In my recent attempt, I installed RHEL 10 on my Asus NUC 14 that has a NVidia RTX 5090 via Oculink used primarily for gaming, and it was a pain to get that working, although using an AMD GPU will be easier. That said, even after getting a game to launch, the performance was worse than on Windows, and there was system instability and losing display with my Samsung 5K monitor. I eventually gave up and went back to Windows.

The problem with Desktop Linux is for the fact it’s very fragmented, thus you are going to spend a lot of time tweaking stuff and troubleshooting when things actually break. Linux is fine as a server OS as that is well supported, even by corporations as it’s used in enterprise. However, Desktop Linux does not get the same amount of care, which of course make it feel less polished, especially when UX on open source in general is a big problem as it’s generally developed by a developer than a UX designer. Also, the lack of industry apps, hate them or not like Adobe, just aren’t there and the open source alternatives are either lacking or difficult to use.

For me, I would rather stick with macOS than ever switch to Linux. I would rather have a computer that works rather than spend hours fighting with my computer just to get things to work, especially if things break. This is coming from someone who administer RHEL systems professionally (in addition to Windows Server) and of course manage a bunch of Linux servers on my personal time. Sure, it will work for people who only need a web browser and run games that don’t use anti-cheat, but even so, I won’t even recommend it unless someone have a high-level of computer literacy skills to use it. Even with some controversial changes in macOS Tahoe, I still think macOS even with its setbacks is still better than Desktop Linux, and even Windows 11, which of course is always a disaster.

That said, I do own a Framework 13 (AMD version), but only to run applications that only work on Windows. Sure, it’s nice that you can replace the parts easily, but still pales in comparison to my M4 Max Macbook Pro 16” quality wise.
 
  • Like
Reactions: cjsuk
Not sure where the hate is coming from, but this is a viable option to me. I chose, consciously, to stick with the Apple ecosystem but I had to mull the idea for over a year and Linux on a completely repairable (and even upgradeable) laptop was and remains a possibility.

Definitely sticking with macOS on the desktop for a while yet, though. Laptops are devolving to occasional and mobile use only for me and thus allow me a place to “play” for a bit.
 
Not sure where the hate is coming from,
We're on an apple fan site.

Nope, I will never switch to Desktop Linux since I find the experience pretty terrible for various reasons. This is after trying it several times from the early 2000s in virtual machines with the early versions of Red Hat Linux and even going so far to installing Gentoo Linux.
Unless I'm misunderstanding you, you last tried Linux in the early 2000s - a lot has happened in the past 20+ years, and Linux has improved its polish and ease of use. I remember needing to edit conf files, mess with wifi drivers and having a headache with Fedora about 8 to 10 years ago. I reinstalled Fedora earlier this year, those issues were all gone. I also tried a few other distros and settled in on Cachyos.

Second point, you picked one of the hardest distro to install and try out, so your experience is typical for anyone trying gentoo, especially if you're not a a seasoned Linux veteran.

There's several distros that marketed towards windows users, with their DE being very similar to the Windows UI,and the setup mostly automated.

At the end of the day, an operating system's sole job is to run applications, and if the applications you need are not available, then it doesn't make sense to use that OS. One size doesn't fit all, its clear you're not considering Linux which is fine. If you have something that you like, why mess with success
 
  • Like
Reactions: Steve Adams
We're on an apple fan site.


Unless I'm misunderstanding you, you last tried Linux in the early 2000s - a lot has happened in the past 20+ years, and Linux has improved its polish and ease of use. I remember needing to edit conf files, mess with wifi drivers and having a headache with Fedora about 8 to 10 years ago. I reinstalled Fedora earlier this year, those issues were all gone. I also tried a few other distros and settled in on Cachyos.

Second point, you picked one of the hardest distro to install and try out, so your experience is typical for anyone trying gentoo, especially if you're not a a seasoned Linux veteran.

There's several distros that marketed towards windows users, with their DE being very similar to the Windows UI,and the setup mostly automated.

At the end of the day, an operating system's sole job is to run applications, and if the applications you need are not available, then it doesn't make sense to use that OS. One size doesn't fit all, its clear you're not considering Linux which is fine. If you have something that you like, why mess with success

It’s still buggy as crap.

Not the person you are replying to but I’ve merely got enough experience after all these years on fixing bits of it.
 
This isn't true either. First, if nothing on your machine is listening on either of those ports external traffic has nowhere to go. Second, even if you have SSH listening on port 22 bots would still need to either exploit it, not impossible but unlikely, or know your root username & password. Relatively basic security hygiene resolves this.
Good advice for anyone setting up a linux or server or something with port 22 exposed is to disable password authentication and a few other settings to lock down SSH.
Why don’t you open the port and direct it to Linux machine. I have done it plenty of times as honey pot. It’s not very hard to get exploited, you would be surprised how may bots from all over the world are constantly scanning IPS for vulnerable ports. I deal with Linux every day.
This is exactly the attitude that gets companies and people get hacked or vulnerabilities are exploited.
Yea I was utterly shocked when testing on my home network, I exposed one of my machines to the public with just port 22/80/443 and the next day there was over 15-20 THOUSAND attempts. Its like cyberpunk beyond the blackwall, absolutely terrifying stuff.

Linux desktop versions have one thing going for them. There are very few users to exploit all the security flaws open for years compared to windows or mac.
Also one must ask if you are using a free OS on your desktop is there anything worth stealing?

I really don't get why you would run Linux on the desktop.

I was a massive Linux user back in the day, to the point of running Gentoo on all my machines.

But honestly, Linux had its moment to shine at one specific point in history and it failed: The period between Windows 98 coming out and XP being released.

Pre-NT Windows was a house of cards and completely frustrating to work with. Remember having to reboot to change network settings or after installing a program?

But of course a bunch of nerds didn't have the ability to come together to create something truly usable, and embarrassingly enough that is still the case. It's been 20 years since I last used Linux in a serious manner. Still, I occasionally install Linux distros in VMs to see how far they've come, and I'm always surprised at the lack of progress.

On a recent foray a year or two ago with a supposedly user friendly distribution, the App Store of all things was broken out of the box. Overall, though the entire user experience was clunky and awful. Surface-level GUI polish does not make a usable OS.

And even now there are little things like the stupidity of naming schemes. Like, how could you seriously turn around to a normal person and say to them "Oh, you don't need Photoshop, try The GIMP!"

Yes, everyone loves to **** on Windows, but it's relatively usable and has sensible software packages, even if it is bloated.
I agree, plus macOS is a UNIX based OS so you have access to all of the unix features that linux copied, but with stability, ease of use, and much better security maintenance of a 3 trillion dollar company backed OS.
Not sure where the hate is coming from, but this is a viable option to me. I chose, consciously, to stick with the Apple ecosystem but I had to mull the idea for over a year and Linux on a completely repairable (and even upgradeable) laptop was and remains a possibility.

Definitely sticking with macOS on the desktop for a while yet, though. Laptops are devolving to occasional and mobile use only for me and thus allow me a place to “play” for a bit.
This is a problem of tradeoffs. macs have the fastest processors on the market and in some cases literally 800% more memory bandwidth then even the top PCs on the market, but that comes at the cost of it being integrated within the CPU and thus not upgradable.

Apple puts the storage controllers on the CPU, again this helps with speed but REALLY REALLY helps with security and encryption, but then you lose easily replaceable storage because every m2 drive has its own storage controller therefore you have to get a speciality one that just has the SSD NANDS on them and NO storage controller for it to work.

Only on the Apple ecosystem do you get encryption at rest turned on by default, because it is essentially free on macOS whereas on other platforms you take a big performance hit relatively.

So if you want to squeeze the absolute most performance AND efficiency, you will lose upgradability.
 
  • Like
Reactions: leifp
We're on an apple fan site.


Unless I'm misunderstanding you, you last tried Linux in the early 2000s - a lot has happened in the past 20+ years, and Linux has improved its polish and ease of use. I remember needing to edit conf files, mess with wifi drivers and having a headache with Fedora about 8 to 10 years ago. I reinstalled Fedora earlier this year, those issues were all gone. I also tried a few other distros and settled in on Cachyos.

Second point, you picked one of the hardest distro to install and try out, so your experience is typical for anyone trying gentoo, especially if you're not a a seasoned Linux veteran.

There's several distros that marketed towards windows users, with their DE being very similar to the Windows UI,and the setup mostly automated.

At the end of the day, an operating system's sole job is to run applications, and if the applications you need are not available, then it doesn't make sense to use that OS. One size doesn't fit all, its clear you're not considering Linux which is fine. If you have something that you like, why mess with success
I started experimenting with Linux in the 2000s and of course I tried it in VMs and started managing my own Linux servers in a virtual private server for my blog in the early 2010s. I am very well versed in setting up and managing Linux, but primarily on the server side and primarily administering Red Hat Enterprise Linux systems, although I do administer Debian servers as well.

That said, besides my recent experiment, I have installed Bazzitte on an Ayaneo handheld, but even that, not everything works like the touch screen and sometimes the buttons to open the menu stop working, which I’m probably going to give up on that experiment and possibly reinstall Windows 11. I just don’t think Desktop Linux is worth the time especially when things break, it becomes time consuming to find a solution given the added complexity when you start adding Wayland, desktop enviroments, and other things into the mix. A lot of things can go wrong compared to a Linux system just running server applications.

This is why Desktop Linux isn’t it and is not something an average person should switch to. Even with the amount of technical knowledge of using multiple operating systems, I would never use Desktop Linux as a daily driver given how user unfriendly it is. I value my time and would rather not make using my computer become another chore. Sure, I acknowledge that there are improvements to desktop Linux as it’s a viable gaming platform, but when it comes to doing productivity and wanting a computer operating system that just works, Desktop Linux isn’t it and will never, unless you are willing to spend the time tinkering and spend hours troubleshooting when things break (or even starting over or switching distros). My time is too valuable to spend time on an OS that is not user friendly.
 
Good advice for anyone setting up a linux or server or something with port 22 exposed is to disable password authentication and a few other settings to lock down SSH.
Absolutely. No root login and disabling password authentication are musts. There are guides online walking people through what they need to do in `sshd_config`. Of course, what would be even better is to not expose port 22 at all and SSH through a VPN.

I agree, plus macOS is a UNIX based OS so you have access to all of the unix features that linux copied, but with stability, ease of use, and much better security maintenance of a 3 trillion dollar company backed OS.
I also agree. Don't get me wrong I love Linux and I use it both on a desktop and, primarily, as a server OS. But there is a reason my primary computers are a Macs. Desktop Linux has improved leaps and bounds over the years and every year it is better than the last, but there is a lot of misinformation in the Linux world and a lot of old information on the internet that bog down discussions. I vastly prefer desktop Linux over Windows, and that is an understatement. But I definitely prefer macOS overall.

edit: worth noting that there is a reason why Linux basically runs the internet and is used by numerous companies for servers. There is also a reason why Microsoft themselves use Linux in Azure. Despite FreeBSD being right there with its permissive license Linux gets way more attention. But the corporate side of Linux is different from the user side. I find my best Linux experiences have been from distributions with that corporate backing.
 
And regarding the OpenSSH vulnerability, yes it existed for a long time but it has now been patched. Also, opening port 22 and doing SSH is not mandatory for many tasks (editing documents, e-mails, browsing the web, etc.,) can all be done just fine without a remote connection over SSH.

Also I would say that hardening on many Linux based distributions is not any harder or easier than other operating systems—you still have to go through the same set of processes, checks and verification and much of it is to do with mindset. If you wanted to investigate further though both SUSE and RHEL have FIPS-140 compliant default installs. The difference with Linux is that I can create a BASH script and it will run through the hardening steps completely to make a system compliant—I have done this for servers and desktops/laptops and it works very well and is easy to deploy.
Ignorance is bliss when it comes to Linux. I deal with Linux everyday. There is a reason companies spend tons of money on hardening. Do your own research and multiple posts have discussed it here.
 
Good advice for anyone setting up a linux or server or something with port 22 exposed is to disable password authentication and a few other settings to lock down SSH.

Yea I was utterly shocked when testing on my home network, I exposed one of my machines to the public with just port 22/80/443 and the next day there was over 15-20 THOUSAND attempts. Its like cyberpunk beyond the blackwall, absolutely terrifying stuff.


Also one must ask if you are using a free OS on your desktop is there anything worth stealing?


I agree, plus macOS is a UNIX based OS so you have access to all of the unix features that linux copied, but with stability, ease of use, and much better security maintenance of a 3 trillion dollar company backed OS.

This is a problem of tradeoffs. macs have the fastest processors on the market and in some cases literally 800% more memory bandwidth then even the top PCs on the market, but that comes at the cost of it being integrated within the CPU and thus not upgradable.

Apple puts the storage controllers on the CPU, again this helps with speed but REALLY REALLY helps with security and encryption, but then you lose easily replaceable storage because every m2 drive has its own storage controller therefore you have to get a speciality one that just has the SSD NANDS on them and NO storage controller for it to work.

Only on the Apple ecosystem do you get encryption at rest turned on by default, because it is essentially free on macOS whereas on other platforms you take a big performance hit relatively.

So if you want to squeeze the absolute most performance AND efficiency, you will lose upgradability.
It’s not really free for me I pay pro subscription. Linux is still amazing for virtualization and running containers. I save time by maintaining secure golden images. But maintaining them is not easy but better than base install.
 
Ignorance is bliss when it comes to Linux. I deal with Linux everyday. There is a reason companies spend tons of money on hardening. Do your own research and multiple posts have discussed it here.
I believe you are calling me ignorant. I find this offensive so please do not do that.

Also please do not make claims without providing evidence.
 
I believe you are calling me ignorant. I find this offensive so please do not do that.

Also please do not make claims without providing evidence.
"Ignorance is bliss" is a saying from a 1742 poem which basically means not knowing unpleasant facts will make people less worried/happier. "No more; where ignorance is bliss, 'tis folly to be wise"

It is in no way shape or form an insult or an attack.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.