maflynn
macrumors Broadwell
Good point, I think trying to sell one of these a few years from now will be a struggle
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Switched from Macbook Pro to Framework?
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ProbablyDylan
macrumors 68040
Do people offline actually resell their computers? Everyone I know hands them down.
capamac
macrumors 6502a
Steve Adams
macrumors 68000
I use mine until they physically cannot work anymore. I get my money's worth.
glen-the-grey
macrumors newbie
Funny, that's why I switched one of our PCs to Fedora because it did "just work" (this was when I got a free upgrade to Windows 8 and it failed to detect any of the hardware properly). I put Fedora on the computer and everything worked, even the satellite TV decoder and it actually let me play some games (Skyrim at the time if I remember) before it was even fashionable and "Wine" was for most people just something they had in the cellar....
I think it does "just work" for some people and not for others so I can only assume it is down to the particular hardware being supported or not.
I would also say for many people it is easy to use—I have elderly family members who use Ubuntu for all their computing needs and they are not in any way computer literate.
I also get a bit weary of people telling me Windows is "easy to use"—I came from an Amiga, then a Mac and then in the late 90s went to Windows/Linux and a bit of RISC OS—I still find the way Windows behaves very odd sometimes. Maybe it is just where you first learned to do computing is what is "easy to use"?
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glen-the-grey
macrumors newbie
You could also pick something from the Ubuntu Certified Hardware List—its guaranteed to work with Ubuntu which means there is a good chance it will work with other distributions. Dell feature a lot on there but HP and Lenovo also have a good swathe of products and you should be able to pick up some of the older stuff used and still get a good experience.
The Frameworks have an advantage when it comes to pricing. The ready-to-assemble versions are available to preorder for roughly half the price of a comparable MacBook as long as you bring your own memory/storage.
Pacific1972
macrumors regular
I don't know - if I look here Frame.Work Laptops - you only have an price advantage
if you try to order the DIY Editions - but is that Laptop comparable with a Macbook in
hard- & software solution + performance in AI Apps ? I think the targeted user group
is completely different !
glen-the-grey
macrumors newbie
I think the key was "as long as you bring your own memory/storage"...which I guess is a key advantage of the Framework laptops anyway because you can do that. Although the latest Framework 13 Pro does use a type of memory which has not yet been widely adopted so you would probably be best getting it from Framework. You could still save a chunk by bringing an SSD.
I did a comparison recently because one of the reasons I registered on here was to see what the current state of hardware/software/etc. is in the Apple ecosystem (I have been flip-flopping between Apple and Linux for personal computers for a while and am likely to get an M5 MacBook Air as my next machine but do like to see what else is available).
Anyway, the models I compared were:
It would be interesting to know if the M5 has been compared performance-wise with the AI9 HX370—does anyone know if there are any sensible comparisons out there (and not just AI slop comparison websites)?
I did a comparison recently because one of the reasons I registered on here was to see what the current state of hardware/software/etc. is in the Apple ecosystem (I have been flip-flopping between Apple and Linux for personal computers for a while and am likely to get an M5 MacBook Air as my next machine but do like to see what else is available).
Anyway, the models I compared were:
- MacBook Air M5 with 10-core GPU upgrade, 24GB RAM and 2TB SSD: £1899
- Framework 13 Pro with AMD AI9 HX370, 32GB RAM, 2TB SSD: £2509
- MacBook Pro M5 with 20-core GPU upgrade, 24GB RAM and 2TB SSD: £2949
It would be interesting to know if the M5 has been compared performance-wise with the AI9 HX370—does anyone know if there are any sensible comparisons out there (and not just AI slop comparison websites)?
BSDnostalgia
macrumors 6502
Steve Adams
macrumors 68000
AMD Ryzen AI 9 HX 370 vs Apple M5 - Benchmark, comparison and differences
AMD Ryzen AI 9 HX 370 vs Apple M5 – Benchmarks, Specifications & Comparison. Which CPU is faster, more efficient, and better for gaming & productivity?
here is a direct comparison.
That's it. If you don't preoder a DIY edition there really isn't any point to switch from a Mac when it comes to pricing. The DIY part is why you'd purchase a Framework in the first place. If you have no interest in opening up your computer or switching out parts for upgrades then the Framework will still be a solid alternative to a Mac or any other laptop but this is really the device for people who rightfully complain that it's impossible to upgrade Apple silicon Macbooks.
Check memory and SSD prices online and you'll likely be able to save a fair amount if you bring these yourself and only pay the £1649 for the laptop. I would recommend the Intel X7 358H over the AMD because of the latest gen efficiency improvements that should lower heat and increase battery life compared to all the AMD options. I do not really know how these compare in terms of performance and even if they outperform the M5 (which shouldn't be too hard) I wonder how they fare in terms of fan noise with just a single fan compared to the M5 Pro Macbooks that have 2 fans.
Personally I no longer worry about CPU performance nowadays and focus on memory. The more the better and 32GiB RAM is the baseline for me in 2026. There is one more thing to consider and it's the better display panel in the Framework 13 Pro compared to the Macbook Air. The MBP display is still better than both of these. I would probably prefer a 14" Macbook because the screen is bigger as well.
throAU
macrumors G4
people switching to framework from MacBook Pro are clearly switching from ancient MacBook pros, because there's no way in hell I'd give up my apple silicon MacBook Pro(s) and the Pro Display (even the M1 Pro in the house, its currently serving the GF for massive overkill for basic web, financial stuff and browsing/media) for anything x86.
Just... no.
Just... no.
Steve Adams
macrumors 68000
That's like.....Your opinion man.....
There are just as many people sick of apple as there are people sick of windows. That's why there is no change in the user base every quarter of either. there are fluctuations up and down by a percentage or two. The drop in windows use is because of the end of windows 10 support for older hardware. Has nothing to do with windows 11 vs. MacOS vs. Linux.
I would state the opposite. I would rather the frame work 13 pro vs a as mac because I can upgrade and repair my systems without issue. And with the panther lake processor, it's just as fast and has similar battery life.
Comparison between the X9 ultra and the M5 cpu (the processor Intel was aiming for with the x9. NOT the higher tier M5 series).
Intel Core Ultra X9 388H vs Apple M5 - Benchmark, comparison and differences
Intel Core Ultra X9 388H vs Apple M5 – Benchmarks, Specifications & Comparison. Which CPU is faster, more efficient, and better for gaming & productivity?
throAU
macrumors G4
That's like.....Your opinion man.....
There are just as many people sick of apple as there are people sick of windows. That's why there is no change in the user base every quarter of either. there are fluctuations up and down by a percentage or two. The drop in windows use is because of the end of windows 10 support for older hardware. Has nothing to do with windows 11 vs. MacOS vs. Linux.
I would state the opposite. I would rather the frame work 13 pro vs a as mac because I can upgrade and repair my systems without issue. And with the panther lake processor, it's just as fast and has similar battery life.
Comparison between the X9 ultra and the M5 cpu (the processor Intel was aiming for with the x9. NOT the higher tier M5 series).
Intel Core Ultra X9 388H vs Apple M5 - Benchmark, comparison and differences
Intel Core Ultra X9 388H vs Apple M5 – Benchmarks, Specifications & Comparison. Which CPU is faster, more efficient, and better for gaming & productivity?www.cpu-monkey.com
If you have a MacBook Pro and are sick of macOS then run windows or linux in a VM. its freaking fast, better power management and interactive response than a lot of native hardware.
Upgrading systems mid life is just a symptom that you did not spec appropriately.
Comparing the intel ultra 9 laptop CPUs against what you can get in an iPad is COPE
maflynn
macrumors Broadwell
I can see someone paying more for ram/ssd instead of relying on framework's ram/ssd pricing. This really saves you money, if you already have those components on hand.
If I was a betting man, I'd say the framework laptop will be louder. Apple has long decided that a quiet laptop is better then a cool laptop, and their fan curves are such that you generally won't hear the fan, but you'll be dealing with hotter temps.
I downloaded an app - Macs Fan Control, so I could manage the temps more inline with my priority - cooler temps instead of quieter operation. I needed this for an M4 Pro Mini, not so much for the M4 Studio, because the cooling is so much better in that large enclosure.
Steve Adams
macrumors 68000
It's the same damn processor in the M5 MacBook pro how is that "cope"? And you missed the entire repair and upgrade comment. Try thst with a MacBook.
capamac
macrumors 6502a
Problem with Mac today isn't the processor, the problem with Mac today is macOS and some of Apple's corporate choices. A software/policy problem.
A lot of comes down to the quality of the fans used and I am guessing the care taken with airflow through the chassis. I used to assume that fans were inherently noisy but the engineers have made quiet (pun not intended but accepted) strides in this area over the years and Apple has taken advantage of them more than others. I didn't even realize my Mac Mini 2018 had a fan until Macs Fan Control told me it basically spins at 1700 all the time. I'd be curious if Framework's are as good?
I've done the same -- as much to get ahead of thermal throttling as for keeping the CPU/chassis cooler when I do long, CPU-intense things.
Also agree on the fan curves. With Macs Fan Control, I've noticed I can turn the fans up quite a bit beyond where Apple keeps them with minimal difference in noise. Then beyond a certain threshold it gets turbine loud. On my MacBook Air i3, I have to strain to notice a difference up to about 5000rpm. Then beyond 7000rpm it is annoying. Similarly, that Mac Mini 2018 is annoying above 4000 while not much different (to my ears) between 1700 (the minimum) and ~ 2700.
I would have bought a Framework, but they didn't have my country's keyboard layout available, and the wait times… let's just say they could have used a Tim Cook. Apple BTO ships from CN to EU in 4 days.
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Steve Adams
macrumors 68000
I have noctua for my workstation. Even at full honk the only fan I hear is the GPU blower fan. Next time I will be using a noctua colab GPU for my system. Silent. Also insulating your case chassis and panels with dynamat helps keep everything silent as well. Just dont have a window in your case. If you are serious about quiet you won't anyways..
For my laptop, if I'm doing photo editing, audio work or other productivity my fans never spin up. It's only when I edit video do I hear the fans.
maflynn
macrumors Broadwell
Them and BeQuiet are what I consider top tier coolers. I have a Noctura in mine, completely overkill, I picked the biggest one, but my thought process was low temps and low fan speeds. With the Noctua, that was possible.
capamac
macrumors 6502a
Panther Lake CPUs have a relatively low TDP for Intel given their performance.
I bought a newly released M1 Macbook Pro in 2020 and it was one of the worst Macbooks I ever had due to the missing function keys and foremost the low memory limit. And that touchbar later died. Obviously I'd prefer the new Framework over keeping that M1 Mac. On top of that I have a spare 4TB SSD sitting around in an external Thunderbolt enclosure saving me even more money.
If the SSD were constantly out of storage or you just needed way more memory you'd have little choice but to replace it. Guess what happens to a good amount of Apple silicon Mac users who tried saving money by making do with a lower config? They end up replacing perfectly working M1/M2/M3 Macs early. And that's the kind of people Framework will reach too. At least those who don't care whether their machine runs macOS.
...except that you can only virtualize the ARM version of Windows 11 on Apple silicon Macs. And a lot of software doesn't support Windows on ARM.
Good thing then that both Apple and its users see macOS as an advantage. And I find the Apple MDM solutions much better (in parts due to ABM) thought through than on Windows devices. (I'm not a fan of intune.)