Tesla CEO Elon Musk Takes Shots at Apple During Earnings Call

[CordovaLark]

Tesla has serious competition coming for their lunch.

No they don't hell the electric F-150 has less range than the Model Y which is already out. As for other manufactures coming for Tesla, with what? Tesla has the infrastructure to make the batteries etc. Not to mention a vast worldwide charging network that keeps expanding and being improved.

 

[zakarhino]

wrong.

2018 "This is not a walled garden.":

Tesla might let other companies use its Supercharger network

Tesla CEO Elon Musk said he'd be fine with other companies using the supercharger network if they paid for it.

www.cnet.com

We get it, you hate Tesla. Don't have to distort the facts to suit your agenda though.

Licensing out the supercharger tech (your 2018 article) != allowing any car to use them like a regular electrify america charger (2021 position taken by Tesla)

Also, guess which car I drive every day. Hint, begins with T. So much for your "just a hater" theory. I think some of their engineering is excellent. I can believe that whilst simultaneously believing their CEO is a manchild that regurgitates bullet points from his engineering team; you know, the people actually behind the accomplishments.

 

[ArtOfWarfare]

Keep something else in mind: Tesla makes up ~80% of market share in a segment that is 2% of the overall automobile market in the USA (and even less worldwide).

The US is actually a laggard for EV adoption. China was at 15% and Europe was at 19% in June.

Tesla’s Model 3 outsold the next best selling EV (the Renault Zoe) in Europe in June by over 3x.

Also, the segments that Tesla is in, Tesla dominates. The Model 3 is the best selling sedan in the world besides the Civic, Camry, Corolla, and Accord (which are all much cheaper and available in much more countries).

 

[psimac]

You have that backwards. Tesla uses the open standards available on all phones to facilitate communications between the car and phone. So Tesla has all the code for sending and receiving audio over bluetooth and they don't care what device is actually connected on the other side. They also use the open standards for sending and receiving text messages - again, it doesn't matter whether your phone is Apple, Android, Backberry, Microsoft, etc, whatever - if it complies with the standards, it works.

If Tesla is going to make CarPlay work, then Apple should publish an open standard that everyone can use.

But honestly, go to a Tesla store, pair one of the display cars with your phone, and tell me that CarPlay offers anything that the car doesn't already do better. You can already call or text anyone from the car. It'll both read and display text messages on the screen, vs CarPlay which only reads them. The car has Spotify, Podcasts, and plenty of other audio apps built in. It also has Netflix, Hulu, YouTube, and other video streaming apps. Plus a web browser able to use video conferencing programs.

Honestly, asking to use CarPlay in a Tesla is kind of like asking to use CarPlay on a Mac. Why? The Mac already has native apps to do everything that the iPhone can do, and then some.

Because I like the ecosystem I've invested in, and that includes all the apps that integrate with Siri, and Apple Music. To have a Tesla is to choose a different music platform, and set the car up for different settings. If I have two Tesla's, does it remember exactly how mine is set up? Can you transfer that from car-to-car? If I rent a Tesla, do I get the same exact experience as I do in my own? I honestly don't know the answer.

What I do know is that CarPlay is the same experience in every car I get into. If I rent a Camry in Los Angeles and tell Siri to visit Zack who lives in San Diego, Maps opens and gives me directions. Same if I have an appointment in my calendar--Maps already has the address. Etc Etc.

Tesla refusing to offer CarPlay is an indication of their walled-garden methods. Their proprietary charging plug is one thing but just about every carmaker offers CarPlay in their cars today (many treat it as an App), and Tesla choosing not to is simply posturing. Most automakers off CarPlay, Google Auto, and a 3rd standard that works with Android (the name slips my mind). Tesla does not. Freedom of choice doesn't exist with Tesla, ergo walled garden.

 

[zakarhino]

View attachment 1811342
Waze actually runs pretty nice in my Model 3 right now. The latest update made it so the next step moves over to the left side of the screen whenever the browser is up, so I can have the native navigation going at the same time as the Waze update tells me about stuff on the road ahead.

I’m curious what you want to do with Siri. Tesla’s voice commands strike me as many times more useful than Siri, although I’ll give you that Siri can be extended by third party apps while that’s not yet a thing for Tesla’s voice command system.

I want native Waze instead of the browser version. I want Siri because I can give it commands to text people, call people, etc. all without syncing my messages and notifications from my phone to the Tesla infotainment system which is a privacy concern (I don't know where that metadata goes).

Also Siri can listen to music related commands and actually play from my music library instead of from Tesla's built in radio.

 

[zakarhino]

What I do know is that CarPlay is the same experience in every car I get into. If I rent a Camry in Los Angeles and tell Siri to visit Zack who lives in San Diego, Maps opens and gives me directions. Same if I have an appointment in my calendar--Maps already has the address. Etc Etc

That's actually an excellent but obvious point that I somehow never considered. I want CarPlay even more now.

 

[zakarhino]

No they don't hell the electric F-150 has less range than the Model Y which is already out. As for other manufactures coming for Tesla, with what? Tesla has the infrastructure to make the batteries etc. Not to mention a vast worldwide charging network that keeps expanding and being improved.

The F-150 has less range*

*with a 1,000lbs load in the bed. Zero LBS load estimates are looking like the F-150 Lightning could do at most 500 miles, considerably more than a Model Y (look at MKBHD's video on it). We'll have to wait and see though.

 

[QCassidy352]

Keep something else in mind: Tesla makes up ~80% of market share in a segment that is 2% of the overall automobile market in the USA (and even less worldwide). They're a little company that gets a lot of free press often because of Musk's shenanigans. Volkswagen sells more cars in a day than Tesla sells in a month. Volkswagen's market share isn't shrinking.

My thesis has been for years that while Tesla currently shares a technological advantage, their arrogance will get the best of them when the "dinosaur" carmakers overtake them. The forces are just too great and Tesla's shortcomings will continue to be exposed as people realize there are other options. I want Tesla to succeed as America's great automotive success story but I think Tesla will grow up to be a niche player unless they pull the impossible and come out with a 300-mile range, sub-$20k car, or something.

So basically the same thesis for how the Nokias and Blackberries of the world were going to crush Apple’s phone plans back in the 2007-10 era?

Now, will Tesla end up with iPhone-like marketshare, no. The auto market is way too big with too many players for anyone to achieve that. But Tesla ain’t going anywhere except up.

 

[farewelwilliams]

Licensing out the supercharger tech (your 2018 article) != allowing any car to use them like a regular electrify america charger (2021 position taken by Tesla)

Also, guess which car I drive every day. Hint, begins with T. So much for your "just a hater" theory. I think some of their engineering is excellent. I can believe that whilst simultaneously believing their CEO is a manchild that regurgitates bullet points from his engineering team; you know, the people actually behind the accomplishments.

Reread what cknibbs said: "They have plans to open up the supercharger network."

And then re-read the 2018 article:
"He stipulates that these manufacturers would have to pay their fair share of the costs and would have to either adopt Tesla's plug standard or include an adapter in their vehicles."

That's literally what "opening up supercharger network" is doing. You expected manufacturers to use superchargers without paying "fair share of the costs"?

Oh look, more references of "opening up":

"Elon did say, however, that Tesla would open its vehicle platform, Autopilot, and the supercharger network to other automakers as long as it did not have to make the changes most auto manufacturers demand to ease the integration process."

Takeaways from Our Recent Podcast with Elon Musk

On February 13th, we sat down with Elon Musk in Fremont, California for an episode of our FYI – For Your Innovation podcast. Here are some of our key...

ark-invest.com

And in 2020:

Tesla Superchargers already accessible to other electric cars, Elon Musk claims

The technology was only available to Teslas previously

www.caradvice.com.au

Face it, this decision came long before the infrastructure plan.

 

[huge_apple_fangirl]

Tesla refusing to offer CarPlay is an indication of their walled-garden methods. Their proprietary charging plug is one thing but just about every carmaker offers CarPlay in their cars today (many treat it as an App), and Tesla choosing not to is simply posturing. Most automakers off CarPlay, Google Auto, and a 3rd standard that works with Android (the name slips my mind). Tesla does not. Freedom of choice doesn't exist with Tesla, ergo walled garden.

Tesla, like Apple, understands the value of using software to differentiate hardware. They want to control the UX, not Apple. They don't want to be in commoditize themselves by being in the business of making hardware to run Apple's software. Hence, no CarPlay.

I guarantee that if Apple makes a car, it will not support Android Auto for similar reasons....

That Tesla has adopted Apple's "walled-garden" approach (especially with repair) is not necessarily all bad. Such an approach has benefits. But Tesla also seeks to portray themselves as "open" (Superchargers, patents, potentially licensing AP) when they clearly are not. Apple doesn't try to falsely position itself an "open" platform.

 

[Maconplasma]

I agree with MUSK. APPLE is a WALLED GARDEN.

Going back to the days of not being able to install windows on an APPLE silicon Ma

Back to when? Pardon? This is something Apple just started.

You cant upgrade your Disk size or RAM due to the new APPLE chip design.
The fact that they booted a DOS emulator to run Windows Games on an Apple Silicon Mac provides some proof.

Nothing you stated has anything to do with Apple being a walled garden. Those are your personal wants and needs only. Strange how you seem to feel that Apple should allow Windows to be ran on a Mac when they make their own OS. If you need Windows they have machines for that.

We are Back to the Days of ANTI Windows and ANTI INTEL.

Oh the irony in this post when both Microsoft and Intel have been recently posting many anti-Apple ads. Pretty obvious who you're anti of.

 

[zakarhino]

Reread what cknibbs said: "They have plans to open up the supercharger network."

And then re-read the 2018 article:
"He stipulates that these manufacturers would have to pay their fair share of the costs and would have to either adopt Tesla's plug standard or include an adapter in their vehicles."

That's literally what "opening up supercharger network" is doing. You expected manufacturers to use superchargers without paying "fair share of the costs"?

Oh look, more references of "opening up":

Takeaways from Our Recent Podcast with Elon Musk

On February 13th, we sat down with Elon Musk in Fremont, California for an episode of our FYI – For Your Innovation podcast. Here are some of our key...

ark-invest.com

And in 2020:

Tesla Superchargers already accessible to other electric cars, Elon Musk claims

The technology was only available to Teslas previously

www.caradvice.com.au

Face it, this decision came long before the infrastructure plan.

I’ll say the exact same thing again because nothing you linked contradicts what I’m saying:

2021: all you need to use the supercharger is the Tesla app, doesn’t matter what kinda EV you drive. This is how all “open” EV chargers work. Similar to gas pumps albeit the requirement of the app

Prior to 2021, including all sources you supplied: the OEM must enter a contract to license use of the superchargers.

They are different. One type is eligible for the infrastructure bill funding, the other is not. One was announced after the bill, the other was not.

 

[Maconplasma]

And he is up there with Steve Jobs as one of the people who has created the biggest dent in the universe. I can understand not liking Musk, but the guy gets **** done.

Uh but he's constantly hurting the Tesla stock price by his actions though. Not good.

 

[fontman]

So here are a few Stats.
Here’s are some interesting facts:
The total fuel consumption of U.S. airlines is approximately 19 billion gallons annually.
Total fuel consumption for mining Ore for the construction of electric car batteries is approximately 21 billion gallons annually.
The 21 billion gallons of fuel burned can only produce enough Ore to build 250,000 electric car batteries.
The lifespan of an electric battery is 10 years and is not renewable. well maybe.

By 2050 these batteries will fill landfills with 50 million pounds of waste that does not break down.
I wonder if people would still believe in electric power cars, vehicles or equipment if they knew how massive the carbon emissions footprint really was?

 

[QCassidy352]

So here are a few Stats.
Here’s are some interesting facts:
The total fuel consumption of U.S. airlines is approximately 19 billion gallons annually.
Total fuel consumption for mining Ore for the construction of electric car batteries is approximately 21 billion gallons annually.
The 21 billion gallons of fuel burned can only produce enough Ore to build 250,000 electric car batteries.
The lifespan of an electric battery is 10 years and is not renewable. well maybe.

By 2050 these batteries will fill landfills with 50 million pounds of waste that does not break down.
I wonder if people would still believe in electric power cars, vehicles or equipment if they knew how massive the carbon emissions footprint really was?

We don’t have a perfect solution yet, but EVs are cleaner than ICE, even including the battery manufacturing.
https://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/electric-vehicle-myths

edit: a Tesla model 3 becomes “greener” than a Toyota Corolla (a pretty efficient car!) at… 13,000 miles. That’s how little it takes to overcome the initial carbon footprint of the battery.

Lifetime carbon emissions of electric vehicles vs gasoline cars

Reuters analyzed data generated by an Argonne National Laboratory model to determine at what point a typical electric vehicle (EV) becomes cleaner than an equivalent gasoline car in terms of its lifetime carbon footprint.

www.reuters.com

 

[NervousFish2]

2% cobalt is a Tesla battery is probably a lot bigger in terms of overall mass of cobalt than Apple's overall battery mass, even if 100%. These stats can be misleading sometimes. Its not apples to apples.

Which is not to defend Apple, either. But Musk has plenty of sin to apologize for.

 

[NervousFish2]

So here are a few Stats.
Here’s are some interesting facts:
The total fuel consumption of U.S. airlines is approximately 19 billion gallons annually.
Total fuel consumption for mining Ore for the construction of electric car batteries is approximately 21 billion gallons annually.
The 21 billion gallons of fuel burned can only produce enough Ore to build 250,000 electric car batteries.
The lifespan of an electric battery is 10 years and is not renewable. well maybe.

By 2050 these batteries will fill landfills with 50 million pounds of waste that does not break down.
I wonder if people would still believe in electric power cars, vehicles or equipment if they knew how massive the carbon emissions footprint really was?

Saw this exact text going around in a meme. It was unsourced. Do you know the source? Otherwise I'd be quite dubious of some of these claims. The lack of reuse claim especially.

 

[brand]

Imagine your phone being twice as thick for no great reason.

No worries because that will come with right to repair.

 

[brand]

I moved into Apple's "walled garden" in 2003 when I bought my first Mac. No regrets.

I guess ignorance is bliss given that Apple never had a "walled garden" in 2003.

 

[Kype]

Doesnt elon himself use an Iphone?

Why are you supporting the walled garden Elon, Why??

 

[keco185]

Wall garden you say? So is he saying that Tesla will let me plug my Chevy Bolt in at a Tesla Supercharger?

Yes... yes they will. That's coming later this year. That was what they were talking about when the first quote was mentioned.

 

[jinnj]

Yes he literally is. They have plans to open up the supercharger network.

Any day now...

 

[Yokon54]

No they don't hell the electric F-150 has less range than the Model Y which is already out. As for other manufactures coming for Tesla, with what? Tesla has the infrastructure to make the batteries etc. Not to mention a vast worldwide charging network that keeps expanding and being improved.

You mean the charging they are going to share?

Ford estimates 300 mi range, Tesla estimates model Y at 303. This is Ford’s first try at a mass market truck. Pretty close. And cheaper. Ford makes many, many more cars than Tesla and knows how to push volume.

There are many competent and better car manufacturers than Tesla. For one, Tesla has crap quality and crap build quality. Panels don’t even line up. Studies have shown Tesla is well below industry average in dependability. They are also expensive and take too long to charge. Porsche, BMW, Mercedes, Audi are more desirable and Toyota and Honda are a lot more reliable. All of the competitors I listed are better manufacturers than Tesla too.

Competition will get even more serious about electric cars when the tech is ready. It currently has too many downsides over non-electric vehicles to be ready for prime time.

Porsche has already made a Model S competitor and it’s already better in several ways, particularly quality. The Ford Mach E is better in some ways than the Tesla Model Y and is already close in range and every day performance.

You think everyone is going to drive a Tesla or that other manufacturers won’t figure out how to sell electric vehicles? It’s still a pretty small market and the competition is only beginning. The Taycan and the Mach E are 2 examples of cars already compelling and they are just getting started. The E Tron from Audi is another.

Tesla just made $1.1B in profit in their most recent quarter, a record But almost 35% of its profit is selling energy credits, not selling cars. BMW made almost $3B in their most recent quarter, but trades at 1/10th the valuation.

Tesla needs to be way ahead and their runway is already ending.

 

[Kierkegaarden]

Elon comes across as arrogant, period. Was Steve Jobs any different?

I would just be concerned about the depth of executive talent in place at TESLA — if the man is the company, and something happens to man, what happens to the company?

 

[ian87w]

Elon comes across as arrogant, period. Was Steve Jobs any different?

I would just be concerned about the depth of executive talent in place at TESLA — if the man is the company, and something happens to man, what happens to the company?

Both people have their side of arrogance. However, things were in check when Jobs was around because he would've responded and sometimes handed over the other person's behind, and in a sense, it kept everybody in check. Tim Cook is not as hot headed, which is a positive in general, but when it comes to things like this and the world of mainstream media (where the loudest get the confirmation), it made Apple look bad because you only see the loudness from one side.