Tesla Design Chief on Apple Products: 'There's Nothing to Look Forward To'

I don't accept the premise that continual refinement of a strong original concept is a negative. You don't just do "new" + "different" for its own sake.

Case in point: Franz von Holzhausen could live 1,000 lifetimes and not create a design as timeless as the Porsche 911, which itself is the product of continual refinement.

Electric drivetrain aside, I'd take any 911 from 1964 - 2022 over any Tesla ever made. Fit and finish is no contest.
 
I mean he's not wrong. While Apple has really hit a home run with their new processors, they haven't really been anything to write home about other than minor iterations of existing products each year. There's always some money-grab asterisk attached to every release that requires users to purchase upgrades for things that should be in their base models. Removal of things like headphones and the charger really hammer home the point that they're stripping out all the value-add niceties. There really isn't much of anything that I've purchased lately that made me think "wow, what a great deal". I just buy what I need and cringe while I eat the cost to do what I need to do.

Time will tell whether the world at large cares at all about virtual reality or augmented reality or if it's just going to be the next 3D TV fad. Nobody really knows what Apple has cooking with their vehicle project. Governments around the world are going after the App Store for anti-trust issues which is likely going to lead to major reform and financial losses for Apple.

I think this is pretty much the peak for Apple.
 
Well, let's face it. Phones overall are just "bricks" for almost 15 years now, just evolving in size, and features. He has a point. As much as Tesla is heavily trying to reshape car interior etc., smartphones have seen more of an evolution for past decade. But he should be critical of his designs as well. Tesla cars look from outside like cheap sedan from late 2000...
But well, the era of cell phones (Nokias, SE etc.) had it's end after about 15 years of use, so maybe we will see something similar in upcoming years. But more likely no. What would you do? Remove screen? :D I don't really know. Smartphones need to evolve in battery technologies in next decade. After that we can talk about something new. LiPol and LiIon are holding us back in consumer electronics for now, taking too much space for too little energy and capacity. If technology would allow us to power smartphone-grade computer from battery with size of 2 Airpod 1 or 2 batteries, for couple of days or at least one, then we could be thinking about another design and functionality revolution. Fingers crossed.
 
philstubbington said:
Wow, what’s so innovative about a vehicle with a wheel in each corner? ?
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Well, better than the innovative car Apple is working on...
Will they try to sue the competition for round wheels, just like with round corners?!

e594a758d4c9667c2f639f885f46f4ff.jpg
 
Iconoclysm said:
iPad can make calls from your iPhone, I find that to be more than enough. M1 Mac Mini is pretty much the more capable mini that costs way less than a Mac Pro, and it's supposedly getting an M1 Pro update.
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Think about that first comment. Thats two devices. Knowledge Navigator suggested by Alan Kay was a portable device to do everything. Siri is impossibly removed from a practical AI.

The Mac mini design is impractical to scale up as it presently is. People made comments about how a Mac Pro could shrink considerably in size for typical business usage, which they could partner with any number of displays. But Apple doesn't make anything like that.
 
ilikewhey said:
i'm not out of my mind because these check boxes are what consumers look for when buying EV. legacy auto mfg already released their EV but yet hardly anyone seen them on the road, if you think tesla is on the wrong side of the future, why is there a solid 7 month wait list for their model Y, a waitlist i'm on.
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You mean these check boxes were/are currently what EV buyers are looking for. That's the thing with the commoditization of products, the specs become closer and closer and mean less and less. When a consumer is buying a car, none of these things are at the top of list. So take a step into the future where a car buyer who would buy a Toyota Corolla (the most popular car in the world) is looking for an EV. These are people that generally just need a vehicle, the Model 3 is one of the first cars to target that market - but if you think Toyota is going to lose that market during the transition to EV's you're crazy. Same goes for the Model S/X/Y. People spending that much money are going to want something more than a Plaid upgrade, and there are manufacturers out there in that range who are gearing up to move into EV's but have barely dipped their toes into it - Audi, BMW, Volvo, Jaguar. Then there are newer startups and spinoffs like Polestar that are focused only on EV's and will be taking on Tesla head to head in every category in the next couple of years. Honestly, Tesla's been stagnant for a long, long time and it's about to be obvious.

To see someone saying their software is 5+ years ahead when you can only use Apps they develop and have the world's crappiest connectivity to the driver's smart device ecosystem, I have to think they're crazy.
 
Speaks someone in charge of designing just cars with large ipads on them.
I have a Tesla 3 and doesnt feels too far from my previous GTi, I mean, besides the huge “ipad” where I had previously the iPhone…

Ok ok ok, i have fun with the outer speaker and the cams.. but at the end of the day, the car is just a car. Nothing innovative far from carrying people from one place to another.

I hate to say it, but I feel my Tesla is just a little inprovement over my previous car, and only uses it because the “e” thing

Anyway, cant wait to see how every car in the world is driven by Apple’s or Google’S CarOS ??
 
Unfortunately he’s not wrong Apple products have gotten better but they really haven’t drastically changed. While the software always improves the hardware Is in need of a major change
 
Don’t attack the person!
Focus on the statements. Many of us have been saying the same for a while now!.
The innovation at Apple is just a slogan.
Periscope camera?. 4 or 5 years after the competitors (specially H**wei);
On display finger print reader?. Still waiting for it after 2 years of face masks;
No notch?. Good luck.
Faster wireless charging?. Nope.
Just iterative “updates”. The fastest processor ever… every year.
Nice things, but not innovative.
 
szw-mapple fan said:
Calling these “facts” doesn’t make them facts. All 3 are your (ver subjective) opinions. Here are some of mine:

1. Ignoring the electric aspect, Tesla is pretty innovative when it comes to the car interior user experience compared to incumbent car makers. Not everything pan out but I like their minimalist designs. Their safety focus is a big plus as well and even among EVs it stands out. That said, fit and finish is still terrible and their service times still need a lot of work.
2. In areas where EV benefits already dried up Tesla is still seeing pretty strong sales. Their direct to consumer sales model is a big improvement over the dealership model and since Tesla is still considered an aspirational brand consumers are typically willing to pay a little more. At this point demand is still outstripping supply by quite a bit.
3. Elon Musk makes questionable decisions and comments but he is product person who is deeply involved in the R&D and who is capable of getting people really excited about the things he sells. Tim Cook isn’t a product person but he has done really well entrenching Apple’s manufacturing, distribution and sales network in strong positions around the world. Apple and Tesla are in different stages of growth, and it’s not that useful to compare the CEOs.
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1. So just like I said it's average. An exceptional car doesn't have such strong drawbacks like poor finish or questionable service support.
2. I meant Tesla Stock and not their cars. They are over valued. And it's a fact considering that their market cap is more than the market cap of Top 5 manufactures put together, and they are not even in Top 10 by volume sales.
3. Elon Musk is a person who started out as someone who cared for the environment and has recently downgraded himself to someone who is pushing vaccine hesitancy. At this point he is just 2 points higher than Evil Lord Zuck. And I don't agree on the bit that we shouldn't compare CEOs. Tim Cook will spend left of his career living upto Steve Jobs' legacy.
 
So easy to trigger Apple fans, then again that Tesla design guy has a point: we used to look forward to Apple's "one more thing" and design approach, they were showing the way and competitors were churning out pale copies of their designs - but it's been stale and boring for years now, Apple just updates stuff and has little else to stand by its former design mogul status.

Yes Apple is successful AF and making gazillions, but that means nothing about their ability to innovate rather than milking a successful business model.
 
There's no way for Apple to win when looking at things that way. If they changed products dramatically often they'd be accused of planned obsolescence. I believe all the productivity and strong sales and economic data suggests he is a poor analyst.

Tesla should focus on how to make sure their cars don't spontaneously combust so much. Or review adding features like "automatic rolling stop". Or making sure people can't operate their cars with nobody in the drivers seat. But they have to focus on selling snake oil in the form of Starlink. Or promising products they can't actually deliver. Or having their founder manipulate stock prices via his leaked information.

Just saw a YouTube video recently of someone that elected to demolish their 7 year old Tesla rather than shell out $20,000 for a new battery that was worn out. Once the car is sold the customer becomes an after thought.
 
I get the irony of this coming from someone at Tesla who have a model that hasn't changed noticeably in a decade and whose other cars (Cyber Truck aside) look pretty much the same. I do. (If I was in the market for an EV, Tesla wouldn't make my shortlist at this point.) But he's not entirely wrong.

Most everything Apple has released since Jobs' passing has been a refinement of what's already been around. Their newest products, the iPhone 12 & 14, the new 24-inch iMac, and the new MacBook Pros are "innovative" because they've looked back at their own history, not because they've done something new, radical, or unexpected.

The iMac is essentially the the same as the ones before it, its just slimmer and comes in fun colors. The iPhone 12 and 13 have gone back to an iPhone 4 aesthetic, again in colors. The new MacBook Pros look more like a mix of the Titanium PowerBook with a hint of the 2008 MBP thrown in.

I'm not arguing that they need to reinvent the wheel every year, but there has been a distinct lack of hardware innovation as of late. Sure, they've brought out things like the M1 processors and Face ID, but those are under the hood changes that haven't radically pushed anything forward. When was the last time you got excited that the Toyota Corolla got a new engine? 99% of people don't care. Its the design that compels people to buy a new one.
 
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Anyone who lives in an area with a lot of Teslas knows two things:

  1. They are surprisingly boring-looking cars.
  2. Their appearance hasn't been updated in forever.
 
Iconoclysm said:
You mean these check boxes were/are currently what EV buyers are looking for. That's the thing with the commoditization of products, the specs become closer and closer and mean less and less. When a consumer is buying a car, none of these things are at the top of list. So take a step into the future where a car buyer who would buy a Toyota Corolla (the most popular car in the world) is looking for an EV. These are people that generally just need a vehicle, the Model 3 is one of the first cars to target that market - but if you think Toyota is going to lose that market during the transition to EV's you're crazy. Same goes for the Model S/X/Y. People spending that much money are going to want something more than a Plaid upgrade, and there are manufacturers out there in that range who are gearing up to move into EV's but have barely dipped their toes into it - Audi, BMW, Volvo, Jaguar. Then there are newer startups and spinoffs like Polestar that are focused only on EV's and will be taking on Tesla head to head in every category in the next couple of years. Honestly, Tesla's been stagnant for a long, long time and it's about to be obvious.

To see someone saying their software is 5+ years ahead when you can only use Apps they develop and have the world's crappiest connectivity to the driver's smart device ecosystem, I have to think they're crazy.
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didn't say software exclusively, their hardware is also way ahead of the competition,

More Details On Tesla's Innovative Carbon-Wrapped Motor - CleanTechnica

Tesla is always coming up with innovative solutions to solve problems large or small, and one such example was revealed at the Model S Plaid delivery event last week. Elon Musk spoke about this achievement briefly during the presentation. “Something we’re really proud of is the new...
cleantechnica.com cleantechnica.com

toyota will lose out when they make the transition in EV cause they don't have the infrastructure to build that many batteries to supply the fleet. it took tesla years to build up the supply chain and mining contracts at a break neck speed to get to where they can sell 1m cars annual, and you're telling me legacy auto who just got their toes wet, is gonna do everything tesla did in half the time or even less? whos out of their mind now ?
 
Hoo Doo Dude said:
There's no way for Apple to win when looking at things that way. If they changed products dramatically often they'd be accused of planned obsolescence. I believe all the productivity and strong sales and economic data suggests he is a poor analyst.

Tesla should focus on how to make sure their cars don't spontaneously combust so much. Or review adding features like "automatic rolling stop". Or making sure people can't operate their cars with nobody in the drivers seat. But they have to focus on selling snake oil in the form of Starlink. Or promising products they can't actually deliver. Or having their founder manipulate stock prices via his leaked information.

Just saw a YouTube video recently of someone that elected to demolish their 7 year old Tesla rather than shell out $20,000 for a new battery that was worn out. Once the car is sold the customer becomes an after thought.
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Apple is focused on developing technology that can be embedded into electric cars which are all competitors to Tesla. If this guy is mouthing off bad comments about Apple there has to be something in the pipeline that benefits Apple to Tesla's detriment. ;)
 
Wildkraut said:
Well, better than the innovative car Apple is working on...
Will they try to sue the competition for round wheels, just like with round corners?!

View attachment 1956720
Click to expand...
I was being cute earlier. Apple is rumored to be working on a car. There have been no announcements, no press events, just crickets.

Tesla OTOH, had a huge splashy press event where they unveiled their shiny new vehicles. This was just over four years ago.
 
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