The 2009 (Gainestown) Mac Pro: Everything We Know

[iMacmatician]

it is bothersome to me that I had to drill down to this level of the forums to get any info on the Mac Pro. They have printed rumors on everything from tiny iphones to tablet macs from very dubious sources and yet not a peep on the mac pro. Even the macosrumors article which you so gleefully demolished would have been worth a read and a chuckle on page 2. I missed that little gem and the Beckton announcement because mac rumors is my apple "news" source of choice. I'm a tad dismayed that neither the good nor the bad info is coming to light on macrumors.

MacRumors appears to put articles on the front page from existing rumor sites, rather than making articles on personal speculation, however logical the latter may be. MacOSRumors has basically zero credibility for the last few years and that is why MacRumors doesn't report on their rumors.

You can check the Mac Guides here, which people update with the latest CPU info etc., but I don't know when the Mac Pro page was last updated.

 

[nanofrog]

P.S. shouldn't the fact that gainestown processors have been released get a mention? It would have in the past.

All that seems to actually have happened, is the SKU's are available to retailers/vendors.

Some sites are claiming "In Stock" status, while others don't. I lean toward a pre-order situation.

 

[MacsBestFriend]

Where do I get my date for Super Hi-Vision adoption? Well, Japan will start 4320p television broadcasts in 2012, and the 400GB Blu-ray disks go into production in 2013… Television manufacturers are starting to make half-Super Hi-Vision TVs (4096x2160) on the highest-end already.

Oh gosh, this is great for my cousins that moved to Tokyo (I doubt they will miss Boston once they get a new TV)!

 

[jjahshik32]

Oh gosh, this is great for my cousins that moved to Tokyo (I doubt they will miss Boston once they get a new TV)!

Too bad the HDTVs will be awesome but your cousin wont understand what the hell the japanese ppl are saying, unless he's fluent.

 

[macsForLife]

RAM news

Just want to say, Tallest Ski, you've done a great job so far with this thread, this is more info than I've ever seen before on any rumor at all, its great. Just saw this today, very interesting:
http://i.gizmodo.com/5142623/samsung-memory-breakthrough-will-give-us-32gb-ram-sticks

I know that even the 16s aren't around, but hopefully this means that they will be pushed forward. I hope Apple doesn't cripple the board by limiting it to 48 gigs (I know, right? ) but still, with 12 slots, this means with 16s 196 gigs, and with 32s its 384 gigs, and I don't see why they should allow it. It would be great future proofing, and honestly, you can never have too much RAM.

 

[Setmose]

New Intel Xeon Family Roadmap

If Intel has managed to hide them, seeing as we've seen Intel documents showing the entire Gainestown line as we know it, I'll be very surprised.

And then buy one.

</optimism_on>

That's what makes presentation "3.2 Xeon Family" at the conference so interesting to me. They will spend an entire session reiterating what is already known? Or have some subtle changes occurred in the Xeon lineup, such as an 8-core Gainestown? It seems too early for an announcement of Beckton, which is a very specialized chip. Note that in the Wikipedia table, Beckton is not given a Xeon brand name, but rather "??". It is far outside the parameters of the rest of the Xeon family in memory architecture.

Also, Mac OS Rumors did say that iMac would go for a refresh even earlier than Mac Pro, and the recent stock-draw-down / un-availability stories seem to confirm that. Rumors about cooling issues that held back the iMac refresh seem to confirm hotter chips going into iMac. But until we see the specs, who knows. Just seems that Mac OS Rumors got the schedule right.

Enumerative induction is never "guaranteed" according to Hume. Maybe Mac OS Rumors is about to get something right, after a long long period of getting everything wrong.

</optimism_off>

 

[Umbongo]

Just want to say, Tallest Ski, you've done a great job so far with this thread, this is more info than I've ever seen before on any rumor at all, its great. Just saw this today, very interesting:
http://i.gizmodo.com/5142623/samsung-memory-breakthrough-will-give-us-32gb-ram-sticks

I know that even the 16s aren't around, but hopefully this means that they will be pushed forward. I hope Apple doesn't cripple the board by limiting it to 48 gigs (I know, right? ) but still, with 12 slots, this means with 16s 196 gigs, and with 32s its 384 gigs, and I don't see why they should allow it. It would be great future proofing, and honestly, you can never have too much RAM.

It will be interesting to see how 16GB DIMMs (and 8GB) are treated in regards to the Mac Pro.

 

[iMacmatician]

That's what makes presentation "3.2 Xeon Family" at the conference so interesting to me. They will spend an entire session reiterating what is already known?

I think when they did the presentation on Larrabee last year, they gave some new info.

Or have some subtle changes occurred in the Xeon lineup, such as an 8-core Gainestown? It seems too early for an announcement of Beckton, which is a very specialized chip.

Chips can be announced well ahead of time. Larrabee's ISSCC presentation was last year, and Larrabee won't be released for another year or so. Bloomfield was announced over a year before its release. Dunnington was announced half a year before its release at least.

Note that in the Wikipedia table, Beckton is not given a Xeon brand name, but rather "??". It is far outside the parameters of the rest of the Xeon family in memory architecture.

It succeeds Dunnington, which is a Xeon MP. Probably why Beckton isn't given a brand name is because the exact name (like "Xeon 5500") isn't known yet.

Rumors about cooling issues that held back the iMac refresh seem to confirm hotter chips going into iMac. But until we see the specs, who knows. Just seems that Mac OS Rumors got the schedule right.

But how much hotter? Core i7 is well over 2x the TDP of current CPUs in the iMac.

 

[apolloa]

Not to bright I see.

I never understood why anyone would sell their current machine and not have anything that compares for months.

But then again, I remember that not everyone taxes and maxes out their machines like others.

It's so people can sell there computers for maximum value as the price of the mac Pro second hand will drop when a new one is announced and as the guy has said he has at least 2 other Macs to use as well I can't see the problem at all?

I don't think Apple wouldn't let Intel announce an 8-core Gainestown at a place other than the event Apple would undoubtedly hold for the Mac Pro update.

Why? So your saying Intel will go against all it's other customers and be totally exclusive to Apple? So that's going against Dell, HP, Sony, Asus etc etc etc who no doubt order way more chips then Apple do. I would believe it if it was Nvidia as Apple claimed they helped to develop the 9400M hence the exclusivity but a totally exclusive Intel chip? Please tell me if Apple have done it before, otherwise I wouldn't believe it, and why is everyone so against any possibility of an 8 core chip? It's entirely feasible is it not? Or what about 6 core chips?

 

[Umbongo]

It succeeds Dunnington, which is a Xeon MP. Probably why Beckton isn't given a brand name is because the exact name (like "Xeon 5500") isn't known yet.

It will be Xeon 7500, but I dont think it has been confirmed officially (hence not on wikipedia).

 

[iMacmatician]

Please tell me if Apple have done it before, otherwise I wouldn't believe it,

MacBook Air comes to mind (although it wasn't exclusive for long).

and why is everyone so against any possibility of an 8 core chip?

Zero news/rumors about 8-core Gainestowns, especially when said chip is supposedly not far from release. Plus it doesn't really fit well with how core counts have been and most likely will be increasing.

It's entirely feasible is it not?

What's feasible is not necessarily what's reality. It's also entirely feasible that Intel could duct tape two LV dual-cores for a low-power quad-core, but it's not like they've done it.

Or what about 6 core chips?

Westmere will deliver 6-core CPUs for Bloomfield and Gainestown successors next year.

 

[nanofrog]

It will be Xeon 7500, but I dont think it has been confirmed officially (hence not on wikipedia).

Xeon 7500 Series is what I would expect as well. Makes sense, given the recent history with product names from Intel anyway.

I've not seen anything official yet either, and Wiki has been a reliable source so far.

 

[m1stake]

But how much hotter? Core i7 is well over 2x the TDP of current CPUs in the iMac.

The current iMac has 45 or 35 watt chips, the quads that apple may be considering are 65 watts. The i7s are 130 watts.

 

[arn]

Why has none of this Mac Pro speculation/information made it to the front page or even page 2 of macrumors?

As others have said MacOSRumors is not considered reliable. In fact worse than not-reliable in that they have been known to make up rumors in the past. If they've changed their ways, they are going to have to prove themselves before they get any attention from this site.

As for the other stuff, I'll look into it, but if you think there's something news-worthy that we haven't reported on, submit it through the news submission form.

thanks
arn

 

[iMacmatician]

Xeon 7500 Series is what I would expect as well. Makes sense, given the recent history with product names from Intel anyway.

I'm also expecting Xeon 7500.

The current iMac has 45 or 35 watt chips, the quads that apple may be considering are 65 watts. The i7s are 130 watts.

The iMac also uses 55 W CPUs.

 

[econoline06]

You've got way too much time on your hands. Also, Apple will not charge $3k for the baseline model. I'm betting the new Mac Pro won't be that impressive of an upgrade.

 

[apolloa]

MacBook Air comes to mind (although it wasn't exclusive for long).

Zero news/rumors about 8-core Gainestowns, especially when said chip is supposedly not far from release. Plus it doesn't really fit well with how core counts have been and most likely will be increasing.

What's feasible is not necessarily what's reality. It's also entirely feasible that Intel could duct tape two LV dual-cores for a low-power quad-core, but it's not like they've done it.

Westmere will deliver 6-core CPUs for Bloomfield and Gainestown successors next year.

Ok you got me with the Air, forgot about that, but then again I don't any other laptop that used the same CPU? And your still not making a very good argument as to why it isn't true an 8 core will be released. And why are you saying zero news when it's been all over the web this week? It's just not confirmed news. I wouldn't be surprised to see them, but then I would be surprised as no one is expecting them.

 

[Tallest Skil]

You've got way too much time on your hands. Also, Apple will not charge $3k for the baseline model. I'm betting the new Mac Pro won't be that impressive of an upgrade.

Well, the new base-model chips cost $200 more than the current ones did when they came out, so from $2,799 to $2,999...

 

[Umbongo]

Ok you got me with the Air, forgot about that, but then again I don't any other laptop that used the same CPU? And your still not making a very good argument as to why it isn't true an 8 core will be released. And why are you saying zero news when it's been all over the web this week? It's just not confirmed news. I wouldn't be surprised to see them, but then I would be surprised as no one is expecting them.

It isn't true becaue it just isn't. Due to a lack of knowledge on the part of a journalist a comment was made that indicated 8 core Gainestowns would be announced by Intel. This is not the case and the official material doesn't indicate this, but instead indicates they will be talking about 8 Core Nehalem-EX (Beckton) processors.

 

[Umbongo]

Well, the new base-model chips cost $200 more than the current ones did when they came out, so from $2,799 to $2,999...

Actually they cost $150 more each, but I doubt we will see a price over $2,999.

 

[Umbongo]

You've got way too much time on your hands. Also, Apple will not charge $3k for the baseline model. I'm betting the new Mac Pro won't be that impressive of an upgrade.

So what do you propose new Mac Pros would be like?

 

[nanofrog]

Actually they cost $150 more each, but I doubt we will see a price over $2,999.

I don't either, and think this, and other cost increases will wash out for end users as Apple's announced "Reduced Margins" for the next MP.

 

[Horst]

It sounds more and more like the next Mac Pro will run circles around the current one, according to the postings here.

So what's the deal, is it going to be at least twice the performance of the '08 MP ?
Best I've seen is an estimate of 20-30%, which is a lot less than what you can get with RAM and HDD optimisation.

Anyone got anything more exciting to tell ?

 

[Tallest Skil]

It sounds more and more like the next Mac Pro will run circles around the current one, according to the postings here.

So what's the deal, is it going to be at least twice the performance of the '08 MP ?
Best I've seen is an estimate of 20-30%, which is a lot less than what you can get with RAM and HDD optimisation.

Anyone got anything more exciting to tell ?

Personally, I'm seeing this happening:

Harpertown Mac Pro (Leopard): 1x (starting point)
Gainestown Mac Pro (Leopard): 1.4-1.5x performance
Harpertown Mac Pro (Snow Leopard): 1.5-1.7x performance
Gainestown Mac Pro (Snow Leopard): 2-2.?x performance

 

[Horst]

Therefore, it would look kind of bad for the inane (though based in fact) ramblings of a brashly-interpreted individual to be put on the front page of the most reputable Apple rumor website on the Internet.

So that's what you want, see your ever-changing predictions on the MR front page ?
It all makes sense now.