The "Bring Back Translucent Menus" Thread

[macrem]

I have downgraded to 10.5.1 until there is some way to get the very cool blurred menus + the latest software updates together.

It was significant time and effort that did not have to be spent doing this, as is writing these posts, and calling/writing to Apple, but in the end it was worth it as I am very happy to have my menus back, even though I would also like to have the latest software updates. The menus look sizzling hot again, are way cool and absolutely usable!!

To recap what happened:

- the people who designed the original Leopard menus are the top experts & artists in the world of UI design. They collaborated and made translucent, blurred menus that look stunning and are absolutely usable,

- amateurs who know relatively very little about UI design whined with arguments that do not hold water. Reading menus is NOT the same thing as reading a book or a webpage. If it was so important to listen to non-appreciative amateurs, then what about us who appreciate the work of artists??

- so Apple caved to a bunch of whiney amateurs, whom according to this poll hold the minority opinion. Its not the fault of amateurs, though, its the fault of Apple management for listening to one side and not at least giving us the choice, and forcing something most users don't want on them, and for not being responsive enough after its obvious they made a judgement error. Apple should have left us an option to revert back to the professional's choice instead of managers caving in to voiciferous amateurs. Rest assured that Apple is 100% capable of offering an update with an option to restore the original translucency or at least quietly seeding a (command line) hack out to the community today if they so choose, e.g. if Steve says make it so,

- by combining important software updates with a forced (if you want 10.5.2), controversial UI change, many people are choosing not to upgrade or are reverting to 10.5.1 and not getting all the latest software patches. You should not have to back out of security patches to get the translucent menus that were there when choosing to buy the product and perhaps influenced your decision to upgrade, as was my case. This is a major flaw. From a *nix perspective, technically speaking it is downright ridiculous,

- probably some Product/Project Managers and/or upper management at Apple stepped in and overruled the experts in UI design, possibly making the latter less confident about making great, cutting edge designs for Apple in the future (I hope not!).

How can the people who made the best OS ever not see these things? Whether or not you agree with all these arguments, its logical to assume that many people will and so much relatively easier to just stick in an option that makes us all happy. During the months I have been waiting patiently for a "fix", I have not been my usual Apple/OS-X-advocating-self.

 

[macrem]

another observation now that I have translucent menus back again:

the translucent menus are less white, so less bright, so less obtrusive or less of a shock to the eye while looking at the screen and panning across menus between different sized rectangular shapes flashing up on the screen. Translucency muting the brightness here is a plus. You don't stay on a single menu like you would stay focussed on a single window to read a substantial amount of text. All aestheics aside, it also offers an improved user experience. If I did not know the difference, I would say that 10.5.1 is the newer enhanced release from a UX standpoint.

 

[Sunnzy]

I actually liked the translucent menu and menu bar back in Tiger... don't know if many people will share the same opinion though...

 

[DaveF]

To recap what happened:

- the people who designed the original Leopard menus are the top experts & artists in the world of UI design. They collaborated and made translucent, blurred menus that look stunning and are absolutely usable,

- amateurs who know relatively very little about UI design whined with arguments that do not hold water. Reading menus is NOT the same thing as reading a book or a webpage. If it was so important to listen to non-appreciative amateurs, then what about us who appreciate the work of artists??

You're right -- when I was having trouble reading menus due to their transparency, I really wasn't. Thanks for clarifying.

As for the Apple experts: they get it wrong sometimes. The first iteration of Stacks conclusively shows that.

 

[kuwisdelu]

Apple experts may get it wrong sometimes, but in this case it's a matter of opinion whether they got it wrong or not, and many of us agree with the original decision. The menus were beautiful before. Now they're blah. That's really all there is to it. For some people the blah makes it easier to read, and for the rest of us it's just blah. Why have blah when we could have beautiful? (And an option to return to blah for the people who had trouble reading it before.)

I agree with just about everything macrem said. Except I'm not sure how many people are trying to downgrade because of it. Personally, I just don't want to go through the trouble, and am patiently hoping Apple will delight me with the translucent menus' return in 10.5.3, or through a quietly released Terminal command. Nonetheless, it is causing a less than perfect user experience.

 

[TheSpaz]

You're right -- when I was having trouble reading menus due to their transparency, I really wasn't. Thanks for clarifying.

As for the Apple experts: they get it wrong sometimes. The first iteration of Stacks conclusively shows that.

How the heck did you have trouble reading the menus before? What kind of background stuff needs to be going on where the menus are un-readable? I'd like to know so that I can re-produce this strange phenomenon for myself. The default menu text is HUGE, BLACK, and PLAIN and it has NEVER affected my ability to read perfectly clearly. I have yet to run into a situation where I say to myself "Man, I'm sure glad Apple made the menus almost pure white now, I can really start working hard now that I can read again." -- That's ridiculous. Maybe you just can't focus your eyes right or maybe you have ADD or something... I don't know.

 

[DaveF]

How the heck did you have trouble reading the menus before? ... That's ridiculous. Maybe you just can't focus your eyes right or maybe you have ADD or something... I don't know.

Go backward through the thread, I've explained it previously. But just like the other smugly patronizing poster, I'm sure you're right. It's wholly me. My eyes are defective, weak zonules, not holding my lenses in place, preventing me from reading Apple's menus. No need for false modesty: you clearly know what's happening.

Apple experts may get it wrong sometimes, but in this case it's a matter of opinion whether they got it wrong or not, and many of us agree with the original decision. The menus were beautiful before. Now they're blah. That's really all there is to it. For some people the blah makes it easier to read, and for the rest of us it's just blah. Why have blah when we could have beautiful? (And an option to return to blah for the people who had trouble reading it before.)

I agree with just about everything macrem said. Except I'm not sure how many people are trying to downgrade because of it. Personally, I just don't want to go through the trouble, and am patiently hoping Apple will delight me with the translucent menus' return in 10.5.3, or through a quietly released Terminal command. Nonetheless, it is causing a less than perfect user experience.

Personal aesthetics are part of it, but I don't agree that's all it is. There's some basic physiology here too: text superimposed on a busy or partially-readable background is going to be harder to read than text on a pristine background. For some people moreso, for others not at all.

Consider this: Apple has an interface that part of the audience finds beautiful and part of the audience finds difficult -- actually decreases ease of use. I think Apple made the right choice in sacrificing the beauty (in some opinions) to improve usability for others.

Personally, I still think the menus are too transparent. I'd like to see them fully opaque. As said before, a user option for controlling opacity would be just fine.

 

[macrem]

I am just curious to know from people who complained to Apple about the menus pre-10.5.2 before opaqueness was added... Would you please look at this screenshot:

Now, please point out a character that you have difficulty reading.

Its my 10.5.1 bookmarks menu over the wikipedia home page with high contrast black and white text and an image in the background. I had to artificially line things up to try to make it the 'worst case scenario'.

Also, why do you guys keep using the (wet, translucent page, etc.) book analogy? That sounds "smugly patronizing". Reading menus is NOT like reading a lengthy block of text, ergo why there is no transparency behind Safari windows. With menus, you glance using a pointer or arrows to highlight text (blue bar above).

The more white & opaque the menus are, the brighter they are and the more blocks of bright light flash on the screen before your eyes as you pan through menus. Is that better for your eyes and your brain? Do you like bright as possible light light flashing before your eyes?

Btw, Apple did not take away Stacks, they gave us more options. Taking away is a regression.

Also, menus on the latest top-of-the-line video products such as televisions are often translucent these days (more so than the pre-10.5.2 menus). It looks more advanced. Do you call up the video product manufacturers in these cases to complain that you cannot read the menus as well?

When you highlight an icon and hit the space bar (forget what that feature is called but its even more transparent than menus), and see many other elements that are still matching/consistent with the transparency of pre-10.5.2 menus, do you call Apple to complain about transparency in these places too?

 

[Sunnzy]

I don't think that's the worst case scenario you can get. An image in the background does not distract that much.

But if there is a block of text in the back then it would make it worse than just an image.

But I don't know... I never used 10.5.1, I just started using 10.5.2... I personally liked the menu back in Tiger...

 

[kuwisdelu]

Personal aesthetics are part of it, but I don't agree that's all it is. There's some basic physiology here too: text superimposed on a busy or partially-readable background is going to be harder to read than text on a pristine background. For some people moreso, for others not at all.

Consider this: Apple has an interface that part of the audience finds beautiful and part of the audience finds difficult -- actually decreases ease of use. I think Apple made the right choice in sacrificing the beauty (in some opinions) to improve usability for others.

Personally, I still think the menus are too transparent. I'd like to see them fully opaque. As said before, a user option for controlling opacity would be just fine.

They practically are fully opaque right now. You really have to be looking for the translucency to see it at all. And I don't think Apple sacrificing a pleasing GUI experience for some users to satisfy what appears to be a minority is the right choice. The proper choice would have been to offer an option--just like they did with the menu bar. Look, I've explained this time and time again, including how the translucency is even more usable for some users (like myself and a few others) in certain situations. Go ahead and go back through this thread and look at my own explanations. There are perfectly good reasons to give the option to keep them translucent. There's no reason to take it away without an option.

 

[macrem]

I don't think that's the worst case scenario you can get. An image in the background does not distract that much.

But if there is a block of text in the back then it would make it worse than just an image.

But I don't know... I never used 10.5.1, I just started using 10.5.2... I personally liked the menu back in Tiger...

Fyi, this is 10.5.1 with a block text in the background:

I like Tiger menus too. I started using Leopard from 10.5.0. After the 10.5.2 upgrade, to get the translucent menus back I downgraded to 10.5.0 by performing an archive and install with the Leopard CD, then manually downloaded and installed the 10.5.1 combo update from the Apple website.

Below is another 10.5.1 screenshot with white text on black, the opposite of above. Notice how this menu is darker than the above screenshots. When the menu pops up, its less bright than an opaque white menu and softer to the eye as it contrasts relatively less to the eye adjusted to reading text on a black background:

I consider that a plus usability wise, aside from its sublime appearance.

I can read it perfectly well. Would someone who complained about translucent menus please point out a character that's difficult to read in any of the screenshots I have posted?

Btw, my new mobile phone and digital camera have some transparent menus. Has anyone with similar devices called to complain to the manufacturers?

 

[Stratus Fear]

If you replace the following files:

/System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/HIToolbox.framework/Versions/A/HIToolbox
/System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/CoreUI.framework/Versions/A/CoreUI
/System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/CoreUI.framework/Versions/A/Resources/SArtFile.bin

by versions from 10.5.1 or 10.5, you'll get your translucent menus back. Be advised that the option to turn off the translucent menu bar will no longer work if you do this (although those of you interested in translucent menus probably don't care, same as me). Unfortunately, this is the only thing I've figured out that works. I haven't seen any solutions elsewhere. Apple hardcoded the values into these frameworks, instead of putting it in an xml file, or something like that.

If you do this, make sure the HIToolbox and CoreUI files are chmod 755 (rwxr-xr-x) and SArtFile.bin is chmod 644 (rw-r--r--) or your OS won't boot when you restart (it wouldn't be fun to boot off an install disc to open Terminal there and fix your system). I'd make backups of your files before replacing them, too.

 

[killmoms]

When the menu pops up, its less bright than an opaque white menu and softer to the eye as it contrasts relatively less to the eye adjusted to reading text on a black background:

You do realize, of course, that reading light text on a black background is more tiring to the human eye than the opposite, right?

 

[macrem]

If you replace the following files:

/System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/HIToolbox.framework/Versions/A/HIToolbox
/System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/CoreUI.framework/Versions/A/CoreUI
/System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/CoreUI.framework/Versions/A/Resources/SArtFile.bin
[...]

Finally, the information I've been looking for everywhere!! Thank you Stratus Fear!!

I like the translucent menubar too so no worries if that option's gone. I'm currently away from home with my MBP, am planning to test this procedure on an old machine once back at home on Monday. My install disc is at home too...

 

[richard.mac]

Fyi, this is 10.5.1 with a block text in the background:

snip

I like Tiger menus too. I started using Leopard from 10.5.0. After the 10.5.2 upgrade, to get the translucent menus back I downgraded to 10.5.0 by performing an archive and install with the Leopard CD, then manually downloaded and installed the 10.5.1 combo update from the Apple website.

Below is another 10.5.1 screenshot with white text on black, the opposite of above. Notice how this menu is darker than the above screenshots. When the menu pops up, its less bright than an opaque white menu and softer to the eye as it contrasts relatively less to the eye adjusted to reading text on a black background:

snip

I consider that a plus usability wise, aside from its sublime appearance.

I can read it perfectly well. Would someone who complained about translucent menus please point out a character that's difficult to read in any of the screenshots I have posted?

Btw, my new mobile phone and digital camera have some transparent menus. Has anyone with similar devices called to complain to the manufacturers?

how did u get the menu grey?

If you replace the following files:

/System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/HIToolbox.framework/Versions/A/HIToolbox
/System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/CoreUI.framework/Versions/A/CoreUI
/System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/CoreUI.framework/Versions/A/Resources/SArtFile.bin

by versions from 10.5.1 or 10.5, you'll get your translucent menus back. Be advised that the option to turn off the translucent menu bar will no longer work if you do this (although those of you interested in translucent menus probably don't care, same as me). Unfortunately, this is the only thing I've figured out that works. I haven't seen any solutions elsewhere. Apple hardcoded the values into these frameworks, instead of putting it in an xml file, or something like that.

If you do this, make sure the HIToolbox and CoreUI files are chmod 755 (rwxr-xr-x) and SArtFile.bin is chmod 644 (rw-r--r--) or your OS won't boot when you restart (it wouldn't be fun to boot off an install disc to open Terminal there and fix your system). I'd make backups of your files before replacing them, too.

can you or anyone else please zip those files and attach them? thanks! and also how do you "chmod" to change permissions in Terminal? what is the command and syntax? thanks!

 

[macrem]

can you or anyone else please zip those files and attach them? thanks! and also how do you "chmod" to change permissions in Terminal? what is the command and syntax? thanks!

The safest procedure would be to get those files directly from an install CD or your own pre-10.5.2 harddrive, that way you know the files are authentic (this is a good security practice example why Apple should not hardcode this stuff and just let us tweak some xml file settings, in addition to common sense.)

The command to ensure permissions are correct after backing up the 10.5.2 originals and copying over the pre-10.5.2 versions:

sudo chmod 755 /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/HIToolbox.framework/Versions/A/HIToolbox /System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/CoreUI.framework/Versions/A/CoreUI && sudo chmod 644 /System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/CoreUI.framework/Versions/A/Resources/SArtFile.bin

...also to ensure ownership is correct:

sudo chown root:wheel /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/HIToolbox.framework/Versions/A/HIToolbox /System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/CoreUI.framework/Versions/A/CoreUI /System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/CoreUI.framework/Versions/A/Resources/SArtFile.bin

 

[richard.mac]

The safest procedure would be to get those files directly from an install CD or your own pre-10.5.2 harddrive, that way you know the files are authentic (this is a good security practice example why Apple should not hardcode this stuff and just let us tweak some xml file settings, in addition to common sense.)

The command to ensure permissions are correct after backing up the 10.5.2 originals and copying over the pre-10.5.2 versions:

sudo chmod 755 /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/HIToolbox.framework/Versions/A/HIToolbox /System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/CoreUI.framework/Versions/A/CoreUI && sudo chmod 644 /System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/CoreUI.framework/Versions/A/Resources/SArtFile.bin

...also to ensure ownership is correct:

sudo chown root:wheel /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/HIToolbox.framework/Versions/A/HIToolbox /System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/CoreUI.framework/Versions/A/CoreUI /System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/CoreUI.framework/Versions/A/Resources/SArtFile.bin

thanks macrem and Stratus Fear! i was a bit confused by chmod and chown so this clears things up. also good idea getting the files off the install DVD ill use Pacifist to do that.

EDIT: im assuming that the first command is to change the permissions for all 3 files at once and that the second command is to check this?

 

[richard.mac]

OK so i just tried replacing those files with the ones from my 10.5.0 install DVD and it didnt work. i doubled checked that i had set the right permissions and set them again.

it will boot and gets to the login window even though i have automatic login set but i cant login, it just goes straight back to the login window. i tried another user account and the same deal so its not a user level problem. obviously these files dont interact properly with the other interface system files. this leads me to believe that other files from 10.5.0 have to be transfered over to 10.5.2. does this definitely work for you Stratus Fear?

im currently living on a 10.5.0 install on an external drive (with the translucent menus ) until i restore my backups.

 

[TheSpaz]

If you replace the following files:

/System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/HIToolbox.framework/Versions/A/HIToolbox
/System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/CoreUI.framework/Versions/A/CoreUI
/System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/CoreUI.framework/Versions/A/Resources/SArtFile.bin

by versions from 10.5.1 or 10.5, you'll get your translucent menus back. Be advised that the option to turn off the translucent menu bar will no longer work if you do this (although those of you interested in translucent menus probably don't care, same as me). Unfortunately, this is the only thing I've figured out that works. I haven't seen any solutions elsewhere. Apple hardcoded the values into these frameworks, instead of putting it in an xml file, or something like that.

If you do this, make sure the HIToolbox and CoreUI files are chmod 755 (rwxr-xr-x) and SArtFile.bin is chmod 644 (rw-r--r--) or your OS won't boot when you restart (it wouldn't be fun to boot off an install disc to open Terminal there and fix your system). I'd make backups of your files before replacing them, too.

This was the first thing I tried when 10.5.2 came out and it didn't work then, so I don't know why it would work now.

 

[Stratus Fear]

It's been working fine for me. Not sure why it wouldn't work for anyone else. I'm running .2 on an Air and grabbed the files from my .1 MBA install disc.

Make absolutely sure your files look like this in regards to permissions and owner:group:

In /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/HIToolbox.framework/Versions/A/

Mercury:A wesley$ ls -l HIToolbox
-rwxr-xr-x  1 root  wheel  18205168 Mar 15 23:58 HIToolbox

In /System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/CoreUI.framework/Versions/A/

Mercury:A wesley$ ls -l CoreUI
-rwxr-xr-x  1 root  wheel  1457648 Mar 15 23:52 CoreUI

In /System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/CoreUI.framework/Versions/A/Resources/

Mercury:Resources wesley$ ls -l SArtFile.bin
-rw-r--r--  1 root  wheel  1831880 Mar 16 00:06 SArtFile.bin

If it isn't working, the only causes I can think of are your file versions don't match each other (take all the stuff from either 10.5 or 10.5.1, not a mix of both), your permissions are incorrect, 10.5 retail files don't work (possibly), or your computer just hates you.

In the interest of finding out if you're trying to use the same files I did, report the file sizes in bytes of the files you're using in replacement. Maybe the ones from my specific build of .1 that came with my computer work, but older ones don't. It's a possibility.

Edit: Actually, what could cause you to get kicked back to loginwindow would be if Finder died trying to load one of those frameworks. Initially I had that issue when I only replaced CoreUI, and all carbon apps died when they couldn't load HIToolbox since it was looking for a function in CoreUI having to do with the opaque menu bar (which is non-existent before .2). Make sure you've got your files replaced correctly.

 

[thirdeyeopen666]

If you replace the following files:

/System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/HIToolbox.framework/Versions/A/HIToolbox
/System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/CoreUI.framework/Versions/A/CoreUI
/System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/CoreUI.framework/Versions/A/Resources/SArtFile.bin

by versions from 10.5.1 or 10.5, you'll get your translucent menus back. Be advised that the option to turn off the translucent menu bar will no longer work if you do this (although those of you interested in translucent menus probably don't care, same as me). Unfortunately, this is the only thing I've figured out that works. I haven't seen any solutions elsewhere. Apple hardcoded the values into these frameworks, instead of putting it in an xml file, or something like that.

If you do this, make sure the HIToolbox and CoreUI files are chmod 755 (rwxr-xr-x) and SArtFile.bin is chmod 644 (rw-r--r--) or your OS won't boot when you restart (it wouldn't be fun to boot off an install disc to open Terminal there and fix your system). I'd make backups of your files before replacing them, too.

Awesome man, thanks. You wouldn't happen to be the same Stratus Fear as on Xbox Live eh? Think I played against you in COD4 this morning.

edit: Rebooted and have that same issue... I can login, but it just kicks me right back to the login window. I replaced using pacifist to extract from my retail cd. My file sizes look exactly like yours, except for HIToolbox.

 

[Stratus Fear]

Awesome man, thanks. You wouldn't happen to be the same Stratus Fear as on Xbox Live eh? Think I played against you in COD4 this morning.

edit: Rebooted and have that same issue... I can login, but it just kicks me right back to the login window. I replaced using pacifist to extract from my retail cd. My file sizes look exactly like yours, except for HIToolbox.

So the culprit must be HIToolbox... I don't know how kosher it is legally to post my HIToolbox file anywhere, but what is Macrumors policy on that? I wonder if my file would work for others since it apparently works for me.

And no, I'm not the same one as you saw on XBL. I've been using this handle for a while but someone else out there apparently is as well, as I can't always get the same one in all places (had to settle for a different one on XBL). That and I don't have COD4 yet

Edit: Just so you can see here, I do in fact have it working. Wish I could figure out exactly what the problem is for others -- I really doubt I have a super special Mac or anything like that. I still bet its that HIToolbox difference.

 

[DesignerOnMac]

Bring Translucent Menus back

Bring Our Translucent Menus Back

Isn't it in the preferences to do that? There is a radio button to turn on or off!

 

[richard.mac]

So the culprit must be HIToolbox... I don't know how kosher it is legally to post my HIToolbox file anywhere, but what is Macrumors policy on that? I wonder if my file would work for others since it apparently works for me.

And no, I'm not the same one as you saw on XBL. I've been using this handle for a while but someone else out there apparently is as well, as I can't always get the same one in all places (had to settle for a different one on XBL). That and I don't have COD4 yet

Edit: Just so you can see here, I do in fact have it working. Wish I could figure out exactly what the problem is for others -- I really doubt I have a super special Mac or anything like that. I still bet its that HIToolbox difference.

maybe transfering the files from 10.5.0 to 10.5.2 doesnt work & it has to be from 10.5.1? or maybe it will only work from a MacBook Air 10.5.1 install?

ill download the 10.5.1 combo updater and extract the files to see if it works. can you also upload the three files or just HIToolbox from your MBA Stratus Fear? its fine uploading them here i uploaded the keyboard .prefpane for a memeber a little while ago. just zip it and attach to your post.

 

[Stratus Fear]

It looks like, according to the attachment page, that the files are all too big to attach here even zipped, so I'll provide some links for them.

Edit: You can find them here. Note that this server is on a network with a 100KB/sec upload cap, so it's no speed demon, but it'll get the job done. Let me know if any of this works for you.