I agree.. now I have another question for you - Do you really think people liked Internet Explorer ? Remember Netscape ? I used to use Netscape all the time, still do for certain things like archive web and old web.. but also the source code for Netscape is now available, we can start to re-build Netscape's browser and make it better, do you agree ? Yes, if I worked for a company and I had to submit reports, of course I would use Microsoft's Office, but since I work for myself and I write documents and balance my own work expenses, I use Open Office.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
The End Of TenFourFox
- Thread starter Dronecatcher
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Netscape dropped the ball, and Internet Explorer got out ahead. So yes, people use to like IE. They liked it because for a moment, around version 5 if memory serves, it was one of the best browsers you could use. And then Microsoft never changed it again. Netscape died, and frankly, it deserved to. it was a bloated slow mess, and Firefox was born from its ashes for a reason.
You're lucky you don't have someone else's standards to worry about, be it a particular website that uses some horrible mess of technologies, or doc files that were made in the 90's but still get used because they still have mission critical information in them.
MS Office 365 can be used as a web app (hence why TenFourFox is mentioned...) like Apple's iWorks or whatever it's called now. So, no it isn't fake.
It's up on Sourceforge - see https://sourceforge.net/projects/tenfourfox/files/unstable/fpr32b1/
Cheers
Hugh
The answer is yes. But the experience will be just a little bit better than Classilla. You'll be able to access https pages, have TLS 1.2 support. Web page rendering will not improve though.
All that with Netscape 9 on Win98SE thanks to NSS updates from Roytam1, like I mentioned several times here and there. No new rendering engine updates, so you are stuck with one of the old gecko rendering engines from 2008.
Nevertheless, the tweaked Roytam1's Netscape 9 is still the best browser I could find for a vanilla Windows 98 install. But it stops there.
I expected Cameron to do the same tweaks Roytam1 did to Retrozilla and Netscape 9, but I was disappointed to see that his last Classilla update didn't bring TLS 1.2 at least. This is the only needed update that would really give Classilla a new breath of life for a good time, but it didn't happen, sadly.
EDIT: The Roytam1's NSS updates for Netscape 9 contains the following DLLs:
One has to "convert" them into a PPC MacOS9 specific format to try and see if Netscape 7.0.2 will work (or even Netscape 9.0.0.6 on OS X). I dunno if these can be done for Classilla. The browser has to be based on Mozilla Firefox 2.x or 3.x for these to work.
Last edited:
How hard is this to do ? Also, what would it take as a group effort to place TLS 1.2 in Classila ? Really, I think Netscape may offer better opportunities.. is it quite possible to update by code the rendering of most websites minus YouTube and embedded video ?
Well, I could get my email working there...so yeah, it could work. It was also slow as hell running it through a FoxBox on a G3.
I only needed to do it one time because literally no other method I tried to get something off of there worked for some insane reason.
For those willing to build Classilla, I have never done it, I will probably never do it, given the fact that I do not have the knowledge to do so properly. But here are the steps (from what I've gathered so far):
0. Have a very powerful OS9 machine ready to get used as an environment to build;
1. Get the Classilla source code (it's available on SourceForge);
2. Get CodeWarrior 7.1 (it's available on Macintosh Garden);
3. Follow the wiki steps on how to build Classilla (Click here);
4. Good luck. If you have luck, don't forget to rebrand it since it is not an official Classilla build.
Idea: I don't know to which extent Roytam1 went with his fork of Classilla (he told me that he does not have PPC toolchains to do so, and as such, he never tried to do a build and as far as I know, he does not plan to do a build) but he has a fork with possible TLS1.2 experiments here. You probably have to replace (not merge) the files with the 9.3.3 source files (since he hasn't updated it for the last 15 months) and you must make sure everything is in its right place.
Good luck. I won't even try given that I do not own a PowerPC machine and I have only a very small QEMU PPC VM running OS 9.2.2 just for fun (I am just a retro enthusiast with interest on software side, not much on hardware side, and as such, I have interests on System 7, OS 9, and early OS X builds).
0. Have a very powerful OS9 machine ready to get used as an environment to build;
1. Get the Classilla source code (it's available on SourceForge);
2. Get CodeWarrior 7.1 (it's available on Macintosh Garden);
3. Follow the wiki steps on how to build Classilla (Click here);
4. Good luck. If you have luck, don't forget to rebrand it since it is not an official Classilla build.
Idea: I don't know to which extent Roytam1 went with his fork of Classilla (he told me that he does not have PPC toolchains to do so, and as such, he never tried to do a build and as far as I know, he does not plan to do a build) but he has a fork with possible TLS1.2 experiments here. You probably have to replace (not merge) the files with the 9.3.3 source files (since he hasn't updated it for the last 15 months) and you must make sure everything is in its right place.
Good luck. I won't even try given that I do not own a PowerPC machine and I have only a very small QEMU PPC VM running OS 9.2.2 just for fun (I am just a retro enthusiast with interest on software side, not much on hardware side, and as such, I have interests on System 7, OS 9, and early OS X builds).
Last edited:
I have codewarrior already on my PB G4 Titanium which would be the machine to compile this. If I can find what to replace which will provide TLS1.2, then that would be a start. I may sometime this week try this. If successful, then Classila shall be renamed to LvivBrowser
Another method:
metalbabble.wordpress.com
A combo of this method and my stunnel method for email clients on a raspberry pi in your local network will get you sorted for at least TLS 1.2 access. If nearly modern web page rendering is what you're after, then you have to use Browservice.
But this Browservice script has only one downside: you need the Chrome Embedded Framework installed on your host machine that will be the MITM, because this is how the pages are rendered; it uses CEF as a Chromium viewport instance.
Browservice actually can see Youtube website, however, video playback is choppy (more like slideshows) and there is no sound (the sound is played on the raspberry pi; I am unsure if the developer intends to put some work on it to make the sound go through as well), but should be enough to find the videos and move on to another webpage to download them in a playable format (3gp?) using one of these webpages for youtube downloading.
I personally wouldn't bother with youtube on vintage browsers. As previously stated on this forum, Youtube did not exist until around2002-2004 2005. OS 9 is a pre-2000 operating system.
I actually wanted to try Power MachTen and Crypto Ancienne inside my OS 9 VM, because I think that for someone on the move (not at home) is the best solution, but I don't think it is gonna work (given the speed of the VM) and I have no idea on how to set it up. The documentation is confusing. I need a more simple tutorial on how to set up Crypto Ancienne.
And if email is what you're after, Mulberry is the most modern email client for OS 9 and can also talk to IMAP servers. I managed to successfully connect to Office365 there to access my old hotmail account. However, Mulberry needs a lot of tweaks on how to manage your IMAP folders (this is where I think Outlook shines against its rivals) and I have no clue on how to do it. Maybe other forum members could chime help on Mulberry configuration and tweaks. Outlook Express 5 was my choice but it doesn't work without stunnel.
Classilla email client also works flawlessly and has a better IMAP folders organization. Actually, this would be my main choice for emails. But there is no way to create a desktop icon to go straight to the mail app inside Classilla. Not that I know. Again, maybe other users can chime in some help on this.
I am thinking of getting a "The OS 9 Thread" started because this forum does not have one. However this thread requires the 1st post to be a wiki with a long list of supported apps and I don't have that list handy....
Web Browsing with Legacy Proxy
Earlier this year I posted an article about browsing the modern web with classic Macs using Web Rendering Proxy (WRP) – and this is a great way to see modern web pages in your classic browser…
metalbabble.wordpress.com
A combo of this method and my stunnel method for email clients on a raspberry pi in your local network will get you sorted for at least TLS 1.2 access. If nearly modern web page rendering is what you're after, then you have to use Browservice.
But this Browservice script has only one downside: you need the Chrome Embedded Framework installed on your host machine that will be the MITM, because this is how the pages are rendered; it uses CEF as a Chromium viewport instance.
Browservice actually can see Youtube website, however, video playback is choppy (more like slideshows) and there is no sound (the sound is played on the raspberry pi; I am unsure if the developer intends to put some work on it to make the sound go through as well), but should be enough to find the videos and move on to another webpage to download them in a playable format (3gp?) using one of these webpages for youtube downloading.
I personally wouldn't bother with youtube on vintage browsers. As previously stated on this forum, Youtube did not exist until around
I actually wanted to try Power MachTen and Crypto Ancienne inside my OS 9 VM, because I think that for someone on the move (not at home) is the best solution, but I don't think it is gonna work (given the speed of the VM) and I have no idea on how to set it up. The documentation is confusing. I need a more simple tutorial on how to set up Crypto Ancienne.
And if email is what you're after, Mulberry is the most modern email client for OS 9 and can also talk to IMAP servers. I managed to successfully connect to Office365 there to access my old hotmail account. However, Mulberry needs a lot of tweaks on how to manage your IMAP folders (this is where I think Outlook shines against its rivals) and I have no clue on how to do it. Maybe other forum members could chime help on Mulberry configuration and tweaks. Outlook Express 5 was my choice but it doesn't work without stunnel.
Classilla email client also works flawlessly and has a better IMAP folders organization. Actually, this would be my main choice for emails. But there is no way to create a desktop icon to go straight to the mail app inside Classilla. Not that I know. Again, maybe other users can chime in some help on this.
I am thinking of getting a "The OS 9 Thread" started because this forum does not have one. However this thread requires the 1st post to be a wiki with a long list of supported apps and I don't have that list handy....
Last edited:
The G4 Workstation Wiki
Is your G4 feeling its age? Is it just taking up space? Why not turn it into a WORKSTATION? No internet allowed, because the web is just nasty to our old trusty PowerPC's. :( Well, mostly no internet allowed, as none at all may prove impossible until later. With the G4, though, we have a...
forums.macrumors.com
contains a list of apps usable as a starting point. And you can always start with a barebones thread and fill it as time permits or have others chime in. A list of the supported hardware (both officially and unofficially) is also a valuable resource for such a thread. In other words, go ahead!
At least in 2011, OS 9 abs Tiger were much more usable, though I heard that YouTube never played well under OS 9.
I don't know, but do take into account it also very possibly being people using hardware that was too weak for it.
Intro to Browservice:
ok, I would like to try this - I am running as my host - Mac Pro and snow leopard. I do have chrome on it, but what else do I need to make this work ?
ok, I would like to try this - I am running as my host - Mac Pro and snow leopard. I do have chrome on it, but what else do I need to make this work ?
You need to follow the exact Browservice instructions. It didn't tell you to install Chrome, it told you to install CEF (Chrome Embbeded Framework) on your linux host machine before building Browservice and running it. It's all explained on his github readme on first page.
After this, you run Browservice. Once it is running, head to your vintage machine with your vintage browser and go to http://<ip of your host>:8080 and then a blank page with a web-based address bar will show up. Use that "virtual" address bar instead of the browser one to navigate to sites.
After this, you run Browservice. Once it is running, head to your vintage machine with your vintage browser and go to http://<ip of your host>:8080 and then a blank page with a web-based address bar will show up. Use that "virtual" address bar instead of the browser one to navigate to sites.
I think that's beyond a certain someone's capabilities, frankly....needs a GUI installer with lots of OK and Click to Accept buttons.Install it on a spare machine?
At some point, one learning Linux has to learn for themselves. No one but them will really know what they want to do with it, and even when two people start off with the same distro, a day later you wouldn't even know. I've dabbled enough to know I need Windows for other things, but it's always fun to dip my toe in. Definitely great to run in a VM, and I personally love Windows 10's WSL which basically gives you Linux support in Windows.The eternal optimist in me cannot help but offer these suggestions regardless.
But it all comes down to learning yourself. As much as you might want to help, the student has to actually learn the lessons you're offering. Still, you do offer good advice!
This applies to literally any subject. Don't expect someone to hold your hand forever.
Very true. I started off with Kubuntu in 2006 following a recommendation that it would be a good starting point for a novice. The subsequent journey of trial and error through the years with countless distros led to Linux Mint (with Knoppix as a very close second) becoming my desktop favourite. On the firewall front, my failures with IPCop pushed me towards Smoothwall.
Quite: as is well known from my posts, although I now use Macs predominantly, I do have an air-gapped dedicated WinBox that fulfils one task and thankfully it requires almost zero attention or maintenance.
Which was why as you'll note, I suggested that they install it on a spare machine and stopped there. The rest of the journey would be theirs to take on their own - provided that it's a journey they want to embark upon.
Thank you!
Last edited:
I have a VMware Linux VM sitting there waiting to be really used. It's Ubuntu 20.04, I built it as a small web server for my current job, and it is very neat and snappier. I was signed up as an UI/UX Designer, and in some cases I'd have to do some web frontend work to support my team, but thankfully so far I wasn't called up for that. Meaning that I can fully focus on my career as an UI/UX Designer. Since day one, I never needed that VM because 100% of my work is on Adobe XD.
Speaking of Linux, my first venture was with Red Hat Linux in the 90's/2000's. Then Kurumin Linux (some sort of small brazilian version that did not take off in the end) and then a decade of hiatus until I was into Ubuntu/Debian distros. I've even tried elementaryOS because of its striking similarity with macOS, but turns out Ubuntu is the best for me.
I run Browservice on my raspberry pi 3B, using Raspbian OS, that everyone knows as a "rebadged" smaller version of Debian for ARM.
Speaking of Linux, my first venture was with Red Hat Linux in the 90's/2000's. Then Kurumin Linux (some sort of small brazilian version that did not take off in the end) and then a decade of hiatus until I was into Ubuntu/Debian distros. I've even tried elementaryOS because of its striking similarity with macOS, but turns out Ubuntu is the best for me.
I run Browservice on my raspberry pi 3B, using Raspbian OS, that everyone knows as a "rebadged" smaller version of Debian for ARM.