iPhone XS Max THE MAX IS A MESS

[davedvdy]

Your post sounds like an official Apple product reveal.
[doublepost=1549085966][/doublepost]
Ignore the Apple die-hards on this site. It's well known that the Xs and Xs Maxx have a bad antenna design.

I live in a building with poor signal. I'm not too sure what it is, but it's interesting that my roommate's iPhone 6 dropped lots of calls, but yet my Max never does and I've taken long calls. Same network, but now he switched networks since it got so bad. He's fine now on a different network. There are so many variables.

From the PC Mag tests, the Note 9 did slightly outperform the XS Max in signal strength.
They tested under poor signal, and it came out good, but there are mixed reports.

As an example, there are mixed reports even with the XR vs XS in signal strength, while others have had the opposite results.
The XS beats the XR in signal strength for some despite what FCC regulations claim: https://www.zdnet.com/article/goodb...h-and-size-put-the-iphone-xs-back-in-my-hand/ https://www.pcmag.com/article/364768/exclusive-iphone-xs-crushes-xr-in-cellular-signal-test-resu

 

[torana355]

I live in a building with poor signal. I'm not too sure what it is, but it's interesting that my roommate's iPhone 6 dropped lots of calls, but yet my Max never does and I've taken long calls. Same network, but now he switched networks since it got so bad. He's fine now on a different network. There are so many variables.

From the PC Mag tests, the Note 9 did slightly outperform the XS Max in signal strength.
They tested under poor signal, and it came out good, but there are mixed reports.

As an example, there are mixed reports even with the XR vs XS in signal strength, while others have had the opposite results.
The XS beats the XR in signal strength for some despite what FCC regulations claim: https://www.zdnet.com/article/goodb...h-and-size-put-the-iphone-xs-back-in-my-hand/ https://www.pcmag.com/article/364768/exclusive-iphone-xs-crushes-xr-in-cellular-signal-test-resu

The test by pc mags only tested band 4 which is a high frequency band that is not as relevant to low signal areas where the lower frequency bands are used. FCC testing shows the Xr performs better in the low frequency bands. This is why some people say they have no issues as they are the areas with high frequency bands, however it does not change the fact the xs has issues in the lower frequency bands due to the poor antenna design.

 

[davedvdy]

The test by pc mags only tested band 4 which is a high frequency band that is not as relevant to low signal areas where the lower frequency bands are used. FCC testing shows the Xr performs better in the low frequency bands. This is why some people say they have no issues as they are the areas with high frequency bands, however it does not change the fact the xs has issues in the lower frequency bands due to the poor antenna design.

The whole point of the signal chart is to show that the 4 band matters even more in the low signal areas, not less. Add to the mix, even on a 2x2 MIMO, it says the XS outperformed in low signal situations (Points #2 and #3).


1. "Signal strengths beyond -120dBm are considered very weak conditions, one bar of signal or less. In those conditions, 4x4 MIMO really matters."



2. " But our results show that the XS/Max performs significantly better than the XR even when the cellular base station is only running at 2x2 MIMO, demonstrating that the XS/Max is a better choice in all circumstances.

3. "Some cell sites around the country still run on 2x2 MIMO, and you'd think that in those conditions, the phones would perform equally well. You'd be wrong. It turns out that the iPhone XS/Max get stronger performance than the XR, even when the network itself is 2x2 MIMO."

https://www.pcmag.com/article/364768/exclusive-iphone-xs-crushes-xr-in-cellular-signal-test-resu

 

[torana355]

The whole point of the signal chart is to show that the 4 band matters more in the lower frequency situations. Add to the mix, even on a 2x2 MIMO, it says they outperformed in low signal situations (Point #3).

I'm not sure you understand what you are reading. You have contradicted yourself, band 4 is a high frequency band, it can't possibly matter more in the lower frequency situations as low frequencys run on a completely different band lol

`We tested using LTE Band 4, the most common LTE frequency band used in the US. Yes, we use many bands in the US, and performance may vary per band. But this testing alone took Cellular Insights a week to complete for us, and that's all of its time that we had.`

They only had time to test band 4 which is favourable to the xs.

 

[davedvdy]

I'm not sure you understand what you are reading. You have contradicted yourself, band 4 is a high frequency band, it can't possibly matter more in the lower frequency situations as low frequencys run on a completely different band lol

`We tested using LTE Band 4, the most common LTE frequency band used in the US. Yes, we use many bands in the US, and performance may vary per band. But this testing alone took Cellular Insights a week to complete for us, and that's all of its time that we had.`

They only had time to test band 4 which is favourable to the xs.

I'm quoting the article in all 3 points, which claims that the 4x4 MIMO does better in low signal areas as well. Couple the fact it's irrelevant with points 2 and 3 in the 2x2 MIMO only areas.
The XR is a 2x2 MIMO phone. Look at points 2 and 3...it still outperforms when limited to those bands as well, according to the test. I bolded that point in #3.

 

[torana355]

I'm quoting the article in all 3 points, which claims that the 4x4 MIMO does better in low signal areas as well. Couple the fact it's irrelevant with points 2 and 3 in the 2x2 MIMO only areas.

2x2 MIMO is irrelevant to my point. That refers to the number of antennas. Im referring to the difference in signal performance on a low frequency band compared to a high frequency band. The iPhone xs does not perform well on lower frequency bands in low reception areas. This is why there is a huge thread on this very forum about xs reception issues. Luckily band 4 is the most popular band in the US so for many people it won't be a huge issue. However for people who are stuck on the lower frequency bands it is very much an issue.

 

[davedvdy]

2x2 MIMO is irrelevant to my point. That refers to the number of antennas. Im referring to the difference in signal performance on a low frequency band compared to a high frequency band. The iPhone xs does not perform well on lower frequency bands in low reception areas. This is why there is a huge thread on this very forum about xs reception issues. Luckily band 4 is the most popular band in the US so for many people it won't be a huge issue. However for people who are stuck on the lower frequency bands it is very much an issue.

Are you claiming band 4 exists in a 2x2 MIMO only area? Their point was in all situations it showed higher signal strength in both.

Also, according to the Zdnet report, he was dropping calls left and right only on the XR. Those would be low signal strength areas.

 

[torana355]

Are you claiming band 4 exists in a 2x2 MIMO only area? Their point was in all situations it showed higher signal strength in both.

Also, according to the Zdnet report, he was dropping calls left and right only on the XR. Those would be low signal strength areas.

You clearly do not understand what I'm telling you. Just enjoy your phone Just understand that 2x2 MIMO or 4x4 MIMO has nothing to do with what frequency band your phone is using...

 

[davedvdy]

Just understand that 2x2 MIMO or 4x4 MIMO has nothing to do with what frequency band your phone is using...

More bands = access to more frequencies, correct? That's what is claimed below. 2 in, 2 out = 2x2 MIMO. 4 in 4 out = 4x4 MIMO. The whole point of more antennas is to have access to more frequencies. So yes, it has everything to do with the frequency used! So in a 2x2 area only, you only have connection access to 2 bands, correct? In either case you are limited to 2 antennas transmit, and 2 bands receive with 2x2 MIMO only. In both environments, PC mag is claiming it's irrelevant.

----

"2x2 MIMO (Multiple Input, Multiple Output): The most common form of LTE transmission found across the world. The numbers that I calculated earlier in the post are accurate for this form of MIMO.

A cell site with this configuration would have two antennas for Tx (Transmit) and two antennas for Rx (Receive). You can bet your bottom dollar this is what you would normally see. (2010-2017)

4x4 MIMO (Multiple Input, Multiple Output): The next generation of LTE transmission. T-Mobile is using this currently on compatible smart phones on midband frequencies. This technology would bring a 20 MHz channel to 299.6 Mbps download, but doesn't affect upload. Only a few smartphones (namely Galaxy S7, Galaxy S7 Edge, Galaxy S8, and Galaxy S8 Plus) support this technology as of today. The HTC U11 also supports this, but currently only for Sprint."

• https://www.reddit.com/r/verizon/comments/6hxc54/a_guide_to_lte_verizon_wireless/

 

[torana355]

More bands = access to more frequencies, correct? That's what is claimed below. 2 in, 2 out = 2x2 MIMO. 4 in 4 out = 4x4 MIMO. The whole point of more antennas is to have access to more frequencies. So yes, it has everything to do with the frequency used! So in a 2x2 area only, you only have connection access to 2 bands, correct? In either case you are limited to 2 antennas transmit, and 2 bands receive with 2x2 MIMO only. In both environments, PC mag is claiming it's irrelevant.

----

"2x2 MIMO (Multiple Input, Multiple Output): The most common form of LTE transmission found across the world. The numbers that I calculated earlier in the post are accurate for this form of MIMO.

A cell site with this configuration would have two antennas for Tx (Transmit) and two antennas for Rx (Receive). You can bet your bottom dollar this is what you would normally see. (2010-2017)

4x4 MIMO (Multiple Input, Multiple Output): The next generation of LTE transmission. T-Mobile is using this currently on compatible smart phones on midband frequencies. This technology would bring a 20 MHz channel to 299.6 Mbps download, but doesn't affect upload. Only a few smartphones (namely Galaxy S7, Galaxy S7 Edge, Galaxy S8, and Galaxy S8 Plus) support this technology as of today. The HTC U11 also supports this, but currently only for Sprint."

• https://www.reddit.com/r/verizon/comments/6hxc54/a_guide_to_lte_verizon_wireless/

You are completely confused. Having more antennas has nothing to do with the frequency In which the signal is transmitted. 4x4 MIMO uses more transmit and receive channels to increase data transfer speeds. It DOES NOT use multiple frequencies to achieve the higher speeds. "Spatial Multiplexing makes it possible to transmit separate data streams from multiple antennas on the same frequencies"

Its the whole premise of MIMO antenna technology!! I have no idea where you started thinking the Frequency band had anything to do with it.
[doublepost=1549110587][/doublepost]https://blog.mobile-network-testing.com/capacity-enhancements/4x4-mimo/

A good explanation of how 4x4 MIMO actually works.

 

[Momof2.1107]

Err no it’s got hate due to price and not by what it provides.

iPhone 8 design? You mean wasted space and too much bezel? I’m sorry that design is from the past and not what future phones should look like.

I agree with you 100%. I hated the bezels then and hate them now. I dealt with them because that was all that Apple was releasing. The removal of the headphone jack didn’t bother me at all. I have adapters on all of my headphones and rarely listen to music with headphones anyway. Having used Touch ID since it debuted with the 5S and stopped using it when I purchased the X, I’m glad they got rid of it and hope it don’t come back. I hate it on my iPad Pro 10.5 and use my X more than my iPad for everything.

 

[DblHelix]

I’ve been a fan boy since the 4 hit verizon (sorry ATT wasn’t in my state when it was an exclusive prior to then) and by in large I have defended, enjoyed, and purchased APPLE since then. The MAX series is a **** show. IOS 12 is the same. 12.1.1 was stable and life was great, after that it’s been a nightmare. They break more than they can fix. I sit next to my friends running a NOTE or any other device in my basement and the internet speeds are a Joke between my $1,300 device and in some case their 250 walmart straight talk device..... it’s laughable.... not only is price of product and the masses waking up going to hurt apple the whole XS launch is a disaster and the IOS 12 has been a mess.... annual upgrade of 5 here... seriously contemplating moving to android and that PAINS ME DEEPLY... we havent had decent working phones for three months.... I mean come on...

Let me guess you restored. Never do that. Mine is fine get 400mbps down on WiFi with a 450mbps internet connection have gotten 188mbps down on lte.

 

[Hofstede]

iPhone XS Max has been serving me great. The user experience is smooth. The screen is amazing. One drawback is that the space grey PVD coating got scratches easily.

 

[44267547]

One drawback is that the space grey PVD coating got scratches easily.

This isn’t true. (Obviously it will depend on the circumstance). I actually found the PVD coating to be fairly durable for what it’s worth, and I don’t use a case either. Considering that the regular stainless bands on the silver iPhone XS, they scratch easily because it’s unprotected stainless, the PVD coating on the space gray bands holds really well against minor scuffs/scratches.

 

[Hofstede]

This isn’t true. (Obviously it will depend on the circumstance). I actually found the PVD coating to be fairly durable for what it’s worth, and I don’t use a case either. Considering that the regular stainless bands on the silver iPhone XS, they scratch easily because it’s unprotected stainless, the PVD coating on the space gray bands holds really well against minor scuffs/scratches.

I do agree scpace grey PVD coating is more durable than the silver band against minor scratches.

Once the space grey got a minor scratch, it’s nearly irreversible. Any suggestions to remove scratches on the space grey PVD coating?

 

[Apple_Robert]

I do agree scpace grey PVD coating is more durable than the silver band against minor scratches.

Once the space grey got a minor scratch, it’s nearly irreversible. Any suggestions to remove scratches on the space grey PVD coating?

It is not really feasible. You are going to have to live with the scratches.

 

[davedvdy]

You are completely confused. Having more antennas has nothing to do with the frequency In which the signal is transmitted. 4x4 MIMO uses more transmit and receive channels to increase data transfer speeds. It DOES NOT use multiple frequencies to achieve the higher speeds. "Spatial Multiplexing makes it possible to transmit separate data streams from multiple antennas on the same frequencies"

Its the whole premise of MIMO antenna technology!! I have no idea where you started thinking the Frequency band had anything to do with it.
[doublepost=1549110587][/doublepost]https://blog.mobile-network-testing.com/capacity-enhancements/4x4-mimo/

A good explanation of how 4x4 MIMO actually works.

You're right, my apologies. Spatial Multiplexing isn't explained in any of the resources I found, but that is only one of the 3 methods implored. Eigen Beamforming and Space-Time Coding are explained in this one I found: https://silvustechnologies.com/why-silvus/technology/introduction-to-mimo/

I meant multiple channels rather than frequencies due to multiple antennas. They have a simultaneous center frequency response.


You claimed that the XS/Max aren't "as relevant to low signal areas", which is still false, it's basically a half truth. So that should universally mean it would be worse. That's where I'm failing to see your logic there, since the results show both positive or negative results in poor signal areas.

I'm going off your quote here:

The test by pc mags only tested band 4 which is a high frequency band that is not as relevant to low signal areas where the lower frequency bands are used.

The XS has the ability at times to perform better than the X or XR within certain situations in lower signal areas, and vice versa.

ZD Net, PC Mag, and my own findings with my roommate's iP6 in low signal areas mirror that.
So "it depends" is likely the answer there.

 

[torana355]

You're right, my apologies. Spatial Multiplexing isn't explained in any of the resources I found, but that is only one of the 3 methods implored. Eigen Beamforming and Space-Time Coding are explained in this one I found: https://silvustechnologies.com/why-silvus/technology/introduction-to-mimo/

I meant multiple channels rather than frequencies due to multiple antennas. They have a simultaneous center frequency response.


You claimed that the XS/Max aren't "as relevant to low signal areas", which is still false, it's basically a half truth. So that should universally always mean it would be worse. That's where I'm failing to see your logic there, since the results show both positive or negative results in poor signal areas.

I'm going off your quote here:



The XS has the ability at times to perform better than the X or XR within certain situations in lower signal areas, and vice versa.

ZD Net, PC Mag, and my own findings with my roommate's iP6 in low signal areas mirror that.
So "it depends" is likely the answer there.

No problems, look its not a black and white situation, in most cases the XS performs well but there are situations where it struggles to keep a good signal. It all depends on what bands your carrier supports, I'm no expert either i'm just going off what i've read.

 

[I7guy]

My anecdotal experience with "my max", is that the speedtest results are better in the same places that I used my 6s. I have no connectivity issues, however, what I've noticed is that the max seems to take longer to lock into LTE than the 6s. Once it does lock in the performance is fine even if one bar is showing.

 

[44267547]

Any suggestions to remove scratches on the space grey PVD coating?

I don’t have any, and even if I did, I wouldn’t be comfortable recommending any tips, because I wouldn’t want someone to ruin the coating on the phone, unless it was guaranteed to not damage the PVD. In that sense, as someone else mentioned, you’re just will have to accept the fact the phones will scratch with day-to-day usage.

 

[megema]

I have an XS and my overall experience is underwhelming too.

Coming from an 8, I love the Face ID, the screen and everything else. WiFi and LTE signal is fine. Then what's the issue? The UI performance. I get lags when scrolling, sometimes choppy animations. Response of the touchscreen is weird too. Scrolling can be jerky when scrolling really slowly with my finger on the screen (once in ten). Apple apps are less prone to these issues than 3rd party ones, but comparing the XS side by side with a 7, it's really noticable. Same experience like with my 2013 Late 13" Retina MBP.

You are so satisfied with your XS' here that nobody's noticing these widespread issues?

 

[steelo3232]

Just sayin

 

[C DM]

Just sayin

Someone has a device that is experiencing an issue of some sort?

 

[davedvdy]

Just sayin

It's probably defective or a software related issue.
I just tested mine and it I got 4 MBP/S higher than the Macbook Pro even.

 

[44267547]

Just sayin

So, you linked _one_ video of someone having some Wi-Fi issues with the Max? OK? But does that really mean everybody else is experiencing the same concerns after the latest update? I could make the opposing argument I’m not having issues at all with my Wi-Fi on the Max after the latest iOS 12 update.