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The MLB 2010-2011 HotStove

First, congratulations to Phillies fans. The signing of Lee is both an impressive statement of the team's commitment to win, and an endorsement of the quality of the organization by at least one top quality player to the extent he was willing to take less than other teams offered to play there. Great rotation. I love it. It will cast the Giants as underdogs if the two teams meet in the playoffs again. Just when Timmy and the boys are at their best. ;)

aloofman, I agree beating a pitcher once is statistically insignificant, but that doesn't mean it is without meaning. The experience of playing and winning against great players and great teams in pressure-filled post-season play can only help in any rematch. Just hoping we see it happen. :D

Anyway, Boston and Philly seem to dominating in the offseason. What's with San Diego? Those minor leaguers they got from Boston had better be very special. AG is a hell of a player.
 
robo said:
Been waiting for the sour grapes from the Yankee fans;) So how many of you Yankee fans are lining up to jump off the bridge:rolleyes:

And dude, let's get something straight, the Phils lost the NLCS because of their lack of timely hitting, NOT THE PITCHING...;)

R2/C2...:D
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To be fair, great pitching out lasts poor hitting. When you pitch yourself into a hole the more you need to hit.
 
macfan881 said:
Hey wasnt it your media/fans who drove out one of the greatest QB's you guys ever had?
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No, it was his inability to get over the hump and win a championship. And, by the way, I think the Eagles got the better end of that situation.

GL
 
GroundLoop said:
No, it was his inability to get over the hump and win a championship. And, by the way, I think the Eagles got the better end of that situation.

GL
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Hey Loop
Typical sour grapes from the fans up 95. Who gives a rat's ass what they think any way. ;)

And I can't wait for the Eagles/Giants match up on Sunday
 
macfan881 said:
Hey wasnt it your media/fans who drove out one of the greatest QB's you guys ever had?
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Who cares if we go to the playoffs ever year? We would have NEVER won a championship with Mcnabb, the fans and media knew that, so why bother with him?
 
Sayhey said:
aloofman, I agree beating a pitcher once is statistically insignificant, but that doesn't mean it is without meaning. The experience of playing and winning against great players and great teams in pressure-filled post-season play can only help in any rematch. Just hoping we see it happen. :D
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I know it well. I haven't experienced it from the Dodgers in quite a while (although the Lakers have made sure that cup runneth over since then). The more I think about the 1988 Dodgers, the more I think it has to be the flukiest title team in modern history. You've gotta hold on and ride it while you still can.
 
macfan881 said:
Skip bayless from ESPN said it best on his twitter account
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LOL I get what he's saying, but I'm not sure he would have been a savior in NY. I think he would have been more of a savior in Texas. But I think he definitely took some pressure off of himself by joining that rotation. It's definitely a lot easier pitching against a pitcher in the NL than it would have been to pitch against the AL East day in and day out.
 
MacNut said:
Lee is a great post season pitcher but his regular season record isn't that spectacular. I would still Put C.C. 1 over Lee.
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Please tell me you're not stupid enough to judge a starter by his W/L alone? Surely the AL Cy Young this year disproved that fallacious thought process?

C.C. is way better than average, but just remember--give him league-average offense and he'd never have come close to 20 wins in NY.

Lee's regular-season record is massively skewed by having pitched for an atrocious Seattle team. His 2010 season (where he was out the first month for an injury) still provided the best WHIP in the league (not even close), the most complete games (7 to only 2 for CC), the best K/BB ratio (by a landslide), etc. In 30+ less innings, he had only 12 less Ks than Sabathia, matched his ERA...it goes on and on. By contrast...what was your argument, exactly?

Sabathia is good, sure. But just because he's paid like the best and plays for NYY doesn't make him the best. :cool:
 
I would take CC in the clutch over any pitcher out there. He could go on 3 days rest and throw a complete game.
 
MacNut said:
I would take CC in the clutch over any pitcher out there. He could go on 3 days rest and throw a complete game.
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Ahh, the mythical and conveniently intangible "clutch". Are you basing your opinion solely on this, or are you still contending that he is a superior pitcher as a whole? Besides, surely you'd agree that Lee's performances against NYY have been "clutch" as well?

Do you have a single statistic to support your (blind?) faith in his superiority?
I'll grant you that he has been supremely durable, but that alone does not make him great.
 
sysiphus said:
Ahh, the mythical and conveniently intangible "clutch". Are you basing your opinion solely on this, or are you still contending that he is a superior pitcher as a whole? Besides, surely you'd agree that Lee's performances against NYY have been "clutch" as well?

Do you have a single statistic to support your (blind?) faith in his superiority?
I'll grant you that he has been supremely durable, but that alone does not make him great.
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Lee has been injury prone throughout his career, Sabatiha has been a horse. Look at what he did with Cleveland and Milwaukee. He carried the teams on his back and still had stuff left. Sure Lee destroyed the Yankees, but all of the Rangers pitching took care of them. The Yankees never even showed up.

The Yankees 09 championship run was with 3 pitchers and CC pitched the bulk of it. Look at Santana, who was said to be better than CC and he has broken down.
 
Moyank24 said:
A true possibility. Playing in the previous 2 World Series and being on the losing end will do that to a player.

And it seems he may have a clearer path in the NL East than he would have in the AL East.
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Besides, you know he just wants to play with the best pitcher in baseball. Halladay-Lee-Hamels is the best 1-2-3 punch in the league by far. No other team comes close.
 
quagmire said:
Halladay? King Felix?
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Post Season Stats:

Roy Halladay: 2-1 2.45 ERA 3BB 20K
Cliff Lee: 7-2 2.13 ERA 8BB 80K
CC Sabathia: 7-4 4.66 ERA 11BB 71K 2009 ALCS MVP

CC has the most appearances, and his ERA is bloated by a couple of bad series while with Cleveland and Milwaukee. And is the only one on the list with a ring.

Of course, Roy had the No-No in the playoffs.

King Felix hasn't pitched in a big game and until he does, he's not even in the discussion.

So there you go...

Of course, I'd probably take Andy Pettitte in his prime over any of those guys. The guy just got it done over and over and on the biggest stage.

19-10 3.83 ERA 72BB 173K

I'm a Yankees fan so I had to throw him in there. :D
 
macfan881 said:
Skip bayless from ESPN said it best on his twitter account
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Does that guy still get paid by somebody to talk about sports? The world is in worse shape than I thought.

It's also not a particularly good analogy. LeBron went to Miami after he and two other star players deliberately signed short extensions that would end at the same time so they could all sign for the same team. LeBron spent years orchestrating his move out of Cleveland.

Cliff Lee was traded away from the Phillies -- to his dismay -- and then signed to go back there. The Rangers are in a far better position to contend without Lee than the Cavaliers are without LeBron. Lee spent only half a season in Texas, so it's not like he was ditching a fanbase that had loved him for a long time the way LeBron's did. Lee was traded twice against his will to teams he preferred not to play for and pitched very well everywhere he was sent. Signing with a team you loved playing for when you finally become a free agent is not comparable to ditching your hometown team to play with your buddies at the beach. It's just not.

In summary, Skip Bayless is still an idiot.
 
Moyank24 said:
Roy Halladay: 2-1 2.45 ERA 3BB 20K
Cliff Lee: 7-2 2.13 ERA 8BB 80K
CC Sabathia: 7-4 4.66 ERA 11BB 71K 2009 ALCS MVP
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You can excuse Halladay because he was with Toronto. Wasn't his fault that the rest of the team couldn't hack it and the team was in the AL East.

Lee pitched well in the postseason besides his two starts against the Giants. No one was stopping the 2009 Yankees unless they were up against the Phillies rotation right now of Halladay, Lee, Oswalt, and Hamels. Can't fault Lee there either. He did his job last year. The rest of the Phillies couldn't.
 
quagmire said:
You can excuse Halladay because he was with Toronto. Wasn't his fault that the rest of the team couldn't hack it and the team was in the AL East.

Lee pitched well in the postseason besides his two starts against the Giants. No one was stopping the 2009 Yankees unless they were up against the Phillies rotation right now of Halladay, Lee, Oswalt, and Hamels. Can't fault Lee there either. He did his job last year. The rest of the Phillies couldn't.
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Ironic that it was the Giants who went through all 4 of those pitchers on their way to a championship. And they were supposed to have the lightest offense. At the end of the day you need good pitching AND timely hitting to win. The Phils could have started those 4 and probably still would have lost. They couldn't hit the broad side of a barn in that series.
 
It would seem that Kristen Lee, the wife of Cliff Lee, is not enamoured of the Yankee fans.

And, as a result, "they" have passed on some $30M+, and said "Thanks, but no thanks." to the Yankees.

I like this thought process. ;)
 
iJohnHenry said:
It would seem that Kristen Lee, the wife of Cliff Lee, is not enamoured of the Yankee fans.

And, as a result, "they" have passed on some $50M+, and said "Thanks, but no thanks." to the Yankees.

I like this thought process. ;)
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If this was facebook, I would be clicking Like for this.
 
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