The new Mac mini is almost certainly coming

[98winds]

It was a pleasure re-reading the first few pages.

A timeless thread title. GabrieleR, are you still around.

Putting together the outstanding comments in this thread, it would run in the hundreds.

Feb 2014 : Will the Mini be "a Mac of the future" as Tim has told WSJ?

Hm!!!

 

[hvfsl]

Coming up mid-October, and diddly squat so far...

Well the 19th is when Intel start selling their new cpus (and the embargo on reviews is lifted). So Apple can't release anything before then anyway.

 

[toke lahti]

About A-cpu's to macs & macos:
How many pci-lanes an A-chip has?
Could tb3/4 work eg. with an A12, which has, AFAIK, more power than mini2014?

Btw,
Apple does not talk about future products.
Why there is no reporter in Apple's press conferences (ever), that would ask about Apples present time products?
"Mr Cook, will Apple continue, in 2019, to sell the same mac mini model, that Apple started selling 5 years ago, with same components and same price than 5 years ago?
[doublepost=1539430188][/doublepost]

Well the 19th is when Intel start selling their new cpus (and the embargo on reviews is lifted). So Apple can't release anything before then anyway.

Hmm,
do I remember wrong, or has Apple announced many times in history, new mac models, which has new intel's cpus, before intel has announced them?
And this has been explained by that Apple doesn't tell the model numbers of the cpus, never has and never will?
Or has the intel's NDA changed? Before you could introduce new mac with mysterious chip inside, as long as you don't tell the details about the chip, but nowadays you can't?

 

[GrumpyCoder]

Could tb3/4 work eg. with an A12, which has, AFAIK, more power than mini2014?

I seriously doubt Apple would put a A12 in a Mac (Mini or otherwise) unless it's running iOS. They'll have their own, more powerful desktop version.

do I remember wrong, or has Apple announced many times in history, new mac models, which has new intel's cpus, before intel has announced them?

I don't think they ever have, unless it was made for them. I remember them showing of the tiny board for the MBA and the fanless MB and saying "Intel made this for us". In the end, it depends what's in their NDA and if it's like for everyone else, then they have to wait for the 19th. I'd expect an invite in week 43 and an event in week 44/45.

Have the new Dell, HP, etc. systems been announced?

 

[sublunar]

I seriously doubt Apple would put a A12 in a Mac (Mini or otherwise) unless it's running iOS. They'll have their own, more powerful desktop version.

Ultimately, I think it's got to be house versions of macOS running on Axx CPUs that is being run. It's the OS rather than the CPU it's running on which should be agnostic and by creating their own system they could deal a serious blow to the Hackintosh makers if an Apple system has an Axx processor on board which the OS requires (say, for low power situations) in the future.

I don't think they ever have, unless it was made for them. I remember them showing of the tiny board for the MBA and the fanless MB and saying "Intel made this for us". In the end, it depends what's in their NDA and if it's like for everyone else, then they have to wait for the 19th. I'd expect an invite in week 43 and an event in week 44/45.

Have the new Dell, HP, etc. systems been announced?

The custom Pentium CPU that was unveiled for the MBA was a groundbreaking piece of kit but obviously not a stellar performer.

I seem to recall Apple getting some Xeons for early Mac Pros long before the rest of the market but that sort of thing is long since by the wayside and Apple are now as hamstrung by the delays in the Intel release schedule like everyone else.
[doublepost=1539447969][/doublepost]

About A-cpu's to macs & macos:
How many pci-lanes an A-chip has?
Could tb3/4 work eg. with an A12, which has, AFAIK, more power than mini2014?

Btw,
Apple does not talk about future products.
Why there is no reporter in Apple's press conferences (ever), that would ask about Apples present time products?
"Mr Cook, will Apple continue, in 2019, to sell the same mac mini model, that Apple started selling 5 years ago, with same components and same price than 5 years ago?

I think 'Pro' level (Intel) Macs will continue for some time, but MacBooks don't have TB3 (only USB-C) so there's currently nothing to lose for Apple if they choose to continue to make that a theme of Axx powered Macs in the future.

Would a Mac Mini without Thunderbolt (but with USB-C 3.1 Gen 2 - 10Gb/s) ports be a reasonable 'upgrade'?

Apple events are presentations - not press conferences.

The place to ask questions of Apple is during the quarterly results call, and obviously questions about a rounding error on the balance sheet are irrelevant.

 

[whitedragon101]

Well the 19th is when Intel start selling their new cpus (and the embargo on reviews is lifted). So Apple can't release anything before then anyway.

I'm calling it, invites this week, announcement next week.

 

[Partron22]

67 days til Christmas might be OK, if they've got stock built up.

 

[opeter]

I'm calling it, invites this week, announcement next week.

Yeah and soon Mac mini EOL news.

 

[glazball]

It's very clever that you quoted MW's *secondary* and less impactful definition of contempt, skipping over the first which reads "the act of despising." Either way, I disagree that Apple has any contempt for any of their products, but perhaps you are right about Apple management's feelings regarding the users of these products. I totally agree that Apple has dropped the ball on the Mini and the points you made are accurate. Personally, I'm still optimistic that a new Mini will wow (or at least, appease) those of us wanting a new one while at the same time I'm quite aware it may never happen. Neither would surprise me.

I'm a 20 year Apple user myself, since OS9, and I don't like a lot of the changes I've seen either. But, I'm not quite ready to give up on them. I suppose time will tell what happens with the Mini...

Definition of contempt
- lack of respect or reverence for something
Source: Merriam-Webster

Not a "silly assertion" at all. There's a "lack of respect" evidenced by:
1. No updates for 4 years (5 for Mac Pro);
2. Soldering of components;
3. Installing faceplates in the same, previously open chassis to prevent user upgrades of HDD;
4. Removing quad-core CPUs, thereby intentionally crippling performance;
5. No price drops (and rises in some regions) despite 4+ year old components.

Maybe the true contempt is for the users of these devices. Cook's Apple clearly wants to go as fully mass-market iOS as possible. He doesn't want Mini users at the low-end or Pro users at the high-end. Unfortunately for him, he can't get rid of them - yet - as there are still workflows dependent on Mac hardware and the fallout at present would be a PR nightmare.

Instead, we're seeing silent EOLing through abandonment; no updates, no roadmap, no timescales, no commitment. As a 20+ year Apple user, I'm appalled at the disgraceful state of the Mac.

 

[iZeljko]

Howdy all, just wanted to share my view on the modular mac mini design.

Basically the MM housing is still the same dimension. Up to date CPU which is heavily throttled both thermally and power wise.- until you add the external module that sits on top of the mac mini.

The new module would act as additional heat sinking device, power supply and eGPU.

What do you guys think?

 

[opeter]

I suppose time will tell what happens with the Mini...

Actually, time will tell, what will happen with the computer division of Apple Inc.
Because for the foreseable future only two "classic" computers categories are viable for Apple: the Macbook series and iMac.

What will happen with the headless category? Well, next year we will find out, if they ever release the "promised" modular Mac Pro. Whatever that will be.

 

[iZeljko]

Actually, time will tell, what will happen with the computer division of Apple Inc.
Because for the foreseable future only two "classic" computers categories are viable for Apple: the Macbook series and iMac.

What will happen with the headless category? Well, next year we will find out, if they ever release the "promised" modular Mac Pro. Whatever that will be.

I think that Apple already said what it had about the MBPs.
The kernel panics have not been sorted out for too long and that reflects the reality better than words.

 

[sublunar]

After the controversy over the removal of font smoothing in macOS Mojave (disabling sub pixel anti aliasing?) we've all discussed the likely reason why in this thread.

I've speculated that this spells the end of native non retina displays in the Mac range (ie the venerable MBA and final entry level non retina iMac 21.5").

What about the impact on the mysterious 2018 Mini? If the average Mojave desktop looks worse if you don't have a 4k or 5k display you'd have to assume that the 2018 Mini will allow such displays to be connected - not exactly a massive leap of logic there as any current Intel iGPU can theoretically run a 4k display although the performance might not reach Apple's minimum standards (which are admittedly quite low).

Perhaps not using sub pixel anti aliasing will reduce the toll on the iGPU to improve battery life on laptops (yeah, thinner laptops here we come), improve UI performance, and reduce heat generally in Macs when most users will be on retina screens now? The few people who are using non retina screens can either upgrade to a 4k screen or should be encouraged to upgrade the machine while remaining able to continue using their current machine.

The point is that the Iris Graphics 5100 GPU in the existing 2014 Mini isn't capable of driving a 4k display, so clearly that means the next Mac Mini is almost certainly coming...

OK, perhaps it's coming with a less powerful GPU in mind (ie UHD 620) to keep entry level costs down which would allow Apple to offer better graphics by adding a dGPU to the motherboard as an BTO extra or as standard on a higher SKU.

Addendum:
The theory floated in the paragraph above and earlier in this thread was based on the understanding that Apple's engineering budget for updating the Mini required a single motherboard with a drop in slot for the CPUs which would be used across 3 notional SKUs. This initially disbarred the idea of splitting the Mini range between a 15w CPU and 28w CPU.

I just went over to check the specs on the i5-8265U (Whiskey Lake) CPU that supersedes the i5-8250U (Kaby Lake Refresh).

The Whiskey Lake part now appears to use a FCBGA1528 socket - as opposed to the Kaby Lake Refresh part which uses the FC-BGA1356 socket.

This appears to indicate that the i5-8265U now uses the same socket as the i5-8259U and i5-8269U (Coffee Lake) which are in use in the Touchbar 13" MacBook Pro.

Apple could now produce a rather unimaginative update to the Mini which includes a 15w i5-8265U at the low level, and 2 lots of 28w Iris Graphics powered SKUs in the same enclosure, replacing the Thunderbolt 2 ports with Thunderbolt 3. The i5-8265U also has 16 PCIe lanes, the same as the 28w i5-8259U CPU.

At this stage, we'd probably not be too disappointed by the following SKUs:

RAM: 8Gb across the board, up to 32Gb with DDR4 (probably soldered).

Base SKU: 1.6GHz (4 cores, 8 threads), 1Tb Hard Drive
Mid SKU: 2.3GHz (4 cores, 8 threads), 1Tb Fusion Drive
Top SKU: 2.6GHz (4 cores, 8 threads), 2Tb Fusion Drive

All units to get a price uplift which covers the cost of RAM and better drives. Of course, this leaves the Mini very susceptible to a press release update as it could very much look the same as the existing model, the price has gone up to accommodate a T2 CPU and unexciting storage options.

We could also now see a cheaper to produce non touch bar MacBook Pro variant using the same motherboard as the Touch Bar MacBook Pro but with the 15w i5-8265U CPU (which reportedly has a decent GPU) under less pressure due to Mojave's changes.

 

[LiveM]

The 2014 Mini does offer 4k but only at 30Hz I think.

 

[iZeljko]

The 2014 Mini does offer 4k but only at 30Hz I think.

Guys, I do not see a reason to support high resolution with internal GPU or integrated GPU.
The Mini is sold without the display, so user can decide what kind of eGPU he should couple with the mini if he wants higher graphical performance.
That is at lease how I see the "modular" factor in the Mac Mini field.

 

[Spectrum]

At this stage, we'd probably not be too disappointed by the following SKUs:

RAM: 8Gb across the board, up to 32Gb with DDR4 (probably soldered).

Base SKU: 1.6GHz (4 cores, 8 threads), 1Tb Hard Drive
Mid SKU: 2.3GHz (4 cores, 8 threads), 1Tb Fusion Drive
Top SKU: 2.6GHz (4 cores, 8 threads), 2Tb Fusion Drive

I'd be rather disappointed...since it would be replacing a 16GB 4 core/8 thread with 1 TB of pure SSD storage...from 2011.
In the past minis has 15 inch MBPro CPUs in them (45Watt). So, I would hope for a 6-core and SSD in top end model.

Basically, I'd like a 15 inch MBPro without the keyboard, screen or touchbar, and with a panel of useful ports.

 

[sublunar]

Guys, I do not see a reason to support high resolution with internal GPU or integrated GPU.
The Mini is sold without the display, so user can decide what kind of eGPU he should couple with the mini if he wants higher graphical performance.
That is at lease how I see the "modular" factor in the Mac Mini field.

The problem is an eGPU only makes sense with a powerful GPU because of the cost of the average eGPU box. They aren't cheap.

And by the time you've slotted in an AMD RX 580X (the sweet spot for this sort of thing) into it you're looking at adding another $500 (and noise) to the price of your Mini.

There's going to be a market for that for sure but thankfully I already said that any latest generation Intel CPU will support 4k out of the box. It's just the ancient Haswell that Apple use in the 2014 that won't do 4k.
[doublepost=1539713687][/doublepost]

I'd be rather disappointed...since it would be replacing a 16GB 4 core/8 thread with 1 TB of pure SSD storage...from 2011.
In the past minis has 15 inch MBPro CPUs in them (45Watt). So, I would hope for a 6-core and SSD in top end model.

Basically, I'd like a 15 inch MBPro without the keyboard, screen or touchbar, and with a panel of useful ports.

Problem is, that's going to cost about $2k and require a case redesign.
[doublepost=1539714132][/doublepost]So another Tuesday comes and goes. No silent press release. No invites for an event next week. We're now looking at a silent release next Tuesday (23rd, or the 30th), or press invites for an event on the 30th dropping early next week.

I'm leaning towards a silent release because I believe a price (and spec) increase is coming for iMacs and Minis with no cosmetic changes afoot. Is it really worth making a show about FaceID in 2 orientations on iPads after Craig Federighi already demoed FaceID on an iPhone?

 

[Cape Dave]

The problem is an eGPU only makes sense with a powerful GPU because of the cost of the average eGPU box. They aren't cheap.

And by the time you've slotted in an AMD RX 580X (the sweet spot for this sort of thing) into it you're looking at adding another $500 (and noise) to the price of your Mini.

There's going to be a market for that for sure but thankfully I already said that any latest generation Intel CPU will support 4k out of the box. It's just the ancient Haswell that Apple use in the 2014 that won't do 4k.
[doublepost=1539713687][/doublepost]

Problem is, that's going to cost about $2k and require a case redesign.
[doublepost=1539714132][/doublepost]So another Tuesday comes and goes. No silent press release. No invites for an event next week. We're now looking at a silent release next Tuesday (23rd, or the 30th), or press invites for an event on the 30th dropping early next week.

I'm leaning towards a silent release because I believe a price (and spec) increase is coming for iMacs and Minis with no cosmetic changes afoot. Is it really worth making a show about FaceID in 2 orientations on iPads after Craig Federighi already demoed FaceID on an iPhone?

Silent release, the last vestige of the truly desperate. If, after all this, we somehow get a silent release, I will never consider buying a mini again, ever, on general principles. That would be the last slap on the face for us mini lovers.

 

[reallynotnick]

I'm leaning towards a silent release because I believe a price (and spec) increase is coming for iMacs and Minis with no cosmetic changes afoot. Is it really worth making a show about FaceID in 2 orientations on iPads after Craig Federighi already demoed FaceID on an iPhone?

The new iPad Pro will be a pretty big design change so I imagine they will want to talk about it. Not to mention if we do get the rumors of new affordable MacBook (air) that would probably be worth talking about. Then you just throw in Mac Mini and iMac upgrades and maybe a teaser for the Mac Pro. I think that'd be worth making a show about.

This lineup would then be kind of a return of the 4 quadrants that Apple did long ago with iBook/PowerBook and iMac/Power Mac, just now you separate out desktops into headless Mac Mini/Mac Pro and to built in monitor iMac/iMac Pro and then you have MacBook/MacBook Pro. But then again since when has Apple done what we expected recently?

 

[L-Viz]

As an alternative to buying a new mac mini, Apple now offers Mickey Mouse headphones. This might be interesting for some of us.
[doublepost=1539723615][/doublepost]

Howdy all, just wanted to share my view on the modular mac mini design.

Basically the MM housing is still the same dimension. Up to date CPU which is heavily throttled both thermally and power wise.- until you add the external module that sits on top of the mac mini.

The new module would act as additional heat sinking device, power supply and eGPU.

What do you guys think?

View attachment 795239 View attachment 795240

The bottom module is wayyyy to big, it should be same footprint like the middle and top modules.

 

[malsan]

As an alternative to buying a new mac mini, Apple now offers Mickey Mouse headphones. This might be interesting for some of us.
The bottom module is wayyyy to big, it should be same footprint like the middle and top modules.

Mac minnie Mouse is almost certainly coming.

 

[Spectrum]

Problem is, that's going to cost about $2k and require a case redesign.

Well..On arrival, the 2011 quad mini with 4GB RAM and 256SSD+750GB HDD cost about £1000. I've then spent around £500 on upgrades since. So, yes if the SSD and RAM are forced upgrades from Apple, then £1500 would be about right. £2000 sounds steep when a quad core 13 inch MBPro comes in cheaper.
And I don't see why it needs a case redesign (I'd be happy with a new, larger one of course), when the current one works with 45 Watt CPUs.
The biggest issue I have with Apple is that they solder down the components now, so the up-front cost is really high.

 

[ziggy29]

The problem is an eGPU only makes sense with a powerful GPU because of the cost of the average eGPU box. They aren't cheap.

And by the time you've slotted in an AMD RX 580X (the sweet spot for this sort of thing) into it you're looking at adding another $500 (and noise) to the price of your Mini.

Probably so. It makes no sense to spend $300 on the eGPU enclosure and then put a fairly weak card into it. That said, I have one with an RX580 and it does well, despite the TB1 connection on the 2012 Mini. I suspect that with TB3 this could do 4K at 60 FPS, so I looked at this as a graphics investment for the next Mac. Hopefully a new Mini is coming that is worth buying at a reasonable (not necessarily "cheap") price point.

 

[michael.richard1982]

If we don't see a Mac Mini this year, at least we got Micky Mouse headphones.

 

[sublunar]

The new iPad Pro will be a pretty big design change so I imagine they will want to talk about it. Not to mention if we do get the rumors of new affordable MacBook (air) that would probably be worth talking about. Then you just throw in Mac Mini and iMac upgrades and maybe a teaser for the Mac Pro. I think that'd be worth making a show about.

This lineup would then be kind of a return of the 4 quadrants that Apple did long ago with iBook/PowerBook and iMac/Power Mac, just now you separate out desktops into headless Mac Mini/Mac Pro and to built in monitor iMac/iMac Pro and then you have MacBook/MacBook Pro. But then again since when has Apple done what we expected recently?

Yes, you have a point about the MBA being replaced but what if the redesign of the MBA amounted to a cheaper machine that looked almost exactly like the non touch bar MBP but was cheaper because it came with a lesser CPU (i5-8265U) which didn't have the Iris Graphics iGPU but came with UHD620 and also did away with 2x Thunderbolt 3 ports in exchange for 4x USB-C Gen2 (at 10Gb/s)?

Phil Schiller would also have to mention that 'third generation keyboard' too.

Apple opted not to bother harping on about the extra cores or highlighting the changes to the keyboard when they press-released the MacBook Pro with Touchbar models. Would they really make a song and dance about getting rid of the ports from the MBA?

Best case compromise scenario here is a situation where the replacement for the MBA looks like the nTB MBP but retains 2 TB3 ports on the left and adds 2 USB-A ports on the right even though an i5-8265U CPU could support 4 full speed TB3 ports. A mix of product segmentation and pandering to the average buyer in that market segment who just wants to connect their iPhone or iPad without a dongle.

The new iPad Pro will be a pretty big design change so I imagine they will want to talk about it. Not to mention if we do get the rumors of new affordable MacBook (air) that would probably be worth talking about. Then you just throw in Mac Mini and iMac upgrades and maybe a teaser for the Mac Pro. I think that'd be worth making a show about.

This lineup would then be kind of a return of the 4 quadrants that Apple did long ago with iBook/PowerBook and iMac/Power Mac, just now you separate out desktops into headless Mac Mini/Mac Pro and to built in monitor iMac/iMac Pro and then you have MacBook/MacBook Pro. But then again since when has Apple done what we expected recently?

Unless it's a size change for iPads I think they could get away with the usual thinner bezels press release malarky - most users will already be familiar with the concept of FaceID (although I haven't been paying close attention to iPad matters until just recently when full on Photoshop was announced for iPads this week).

Well..On arrival, the 2011 quad mini with 4GB RAM and 256SSD+750GB HDD cost about £1000. I've then spent around £500 on upgrades since. So, yes if the SSD and RAM are forced upgrades from Apple, then £1500 would be about right. £2000 sounds steep when a quad core 13 inch MBPro comes in cheaper.
And I don't see why it needs a case redesign (I'd be happy with a new, larger one of course), when the current one works with 45 Watt CPUs.
The biggest issue I have with Apple is that they solder down the components now, so the up-front cost is really high.

But your SSD won't have been an NVME unit akin to the Samsung 970Pro though. That's the level of tech Apple would fit to the Mini and already fit to the MacBook Pro models (albeit soldered to the motherboard or in a proprietary module) and yes they'd charge accordingly.

No case redesign is fine by me, especially if the Mac Mini Colo (and similar) folks have influenced the decision to get the 2018 model off the ground in the first place. I'd expect them to have bulk orders ready and waiting.

UK pricing would probably be £1899 for a headless 15 inch MacBook Pro (base SKU 16Gb RAM and 256Gb SSD) as you suggest in my opinion. Remember that we have to add the GPU to proceedings as there aren't any 15" MacBook Pros without a GPU and a UHD630 GPU by itself would be outpaced by the Iris Plus Graphics 655.

In the 'boring' update scenario I'd suspect that we'd be adding £100-200 to each Mini SKU to keep the distance apart, increasing the minimum RAM to 8Gb and tweaking the storage of upper tiers to hide the cost of a T2 CPU on the motherboard. The existing case can dissipate 28w (even with extra heat from the additional cores on turbo).

A more exciting update would bring the cheese grater design back in a compact format with a side door that opens and lets users add their own 2.5" HD or SSD. Apple can throw in a 128Gb NVME module (or larger) on the motherboard if they like and, more importantly, let users upgrade DDR4 DIMMs. I just took a look at RAM prices since 2017 and it's not pretty at all, though.

Probably so. It makes no sense to spend $300 on the eGPU enclosure and then put a fairly weak card into it. That said, I have one with an RX580 and it does well, despite the TB1 connection on the 2012 Mini. I suspect that with TB3 this could do 4K at 60 FPS, so I looked at this as a graphics investment for the next Mac. Hopefully a new Mini is coming that is worth buying at a reasonable (not necessarily "cheap") price point.

TB1 is already short of bandwidth for my 1440p display and external SSD, running an (officially unsupported) eGPU must be something to behold. Must be quite noisy compared to the Mini itself though?
[doublepost=1539731966][/doublepost]

Howdy all, just wanted to share my view on the modular mac mini design.

Basically the MM housing is still the same dimension. Up to date CPU which is heavily throttled both thermally and power wise.- until you add the external module that sits on top of the mac mini.

The new module would act as additional heat sinking device, power supply and eGPU.

What do you guys think?

With Apple going all in for a standard solution with Thunderbolt I can't see them going back to proprietary connections like what you and many others suggest. The 'extra module' is not even physically connected to the main CPU unit so I can't see how it could be cooled efficiently.

What if the next Mini arrived in a more expensive, slightly larger, case with a cooling system that the iFixit guys are puzzled about because it's clearly designed for a more powerful CPU than is in it already. It could have cheesy connotations, even look nostalgic. It's been sitting on Steve's desk all along!