Probably because the tech isn't there yet to get all the sensors in the area, which is not as thick at that point in the lid, like the iPhone's and iPads are thick. I reckon you'll see FaceID come at some point in the next couple of generations.
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The notch is great
- Thread starter Kylo83
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Guys, I realized something after seeing that picture of previous MBP 13" and new 14" sitting on the table side by side.
Everybody was concerning if you're not losing some screen real estate with notch and they got to the realization that no, we're gaining vertical 74 pixels of screen real estate. But keep going with me and count.
Display is 14.2" to the round corner. 14" below the notch (correctly below the menubar).
So what is a gain of 14.2" display with notch vs. 14" display without notch and with bigger top bezel? You think 74 pixel of vertical screen space? Surprisingly but logically no.
1) Fullscreen mode
Fullscreen is same. 0 px gain. Only when you would go on 14" display with your mouse to the top for menu, menu bar would show up and move the window down. For 74 pixels? No, menubar without notch is vertically shorter, it's maybe around 50 px? (lazy to measure)
2) Normal mode
a) If you have in your settings menu bar set to automatic hide, gain of screen real estate is again 0 px for 14.2" with notch vs. 14" without notch (unless you would make narrow window and stretch it to the top beside the notch, but who would do it?).
b) If you have menu bar present all the time on your desktop, gain is again not 74 px but height of old menu bar so again maybe around 50 px. But in that "normal window mode" probably nobody would even notice having about some 50 px more because you already use smaller no-fullscreen windows.
And then look, bottom of menu bar on new MBP is not aligned to the bottom of the notch. It's lower because it's of course looking better that way. So, display in same size of notebook could be even bigger than 14" to align with bottom of notch. Maybe display would be I don't know 14.01" so the gain of space for 14.2" vs that display would be even less than 50 px, maybe 45 px and just in that one particular case of 2b).
I don't know. This gain of space doesn't look like something worth pursuing. Do you think Apple would make so big change of look of the macbook because of 45 px of more screen real estate?
I think that the most likely reasons for notch were those:
1) Design
They probably think the screen with same size of bezels on all sides of display looks better and they are probably right. And people wanted small bezels, so they did. And the top rounded corners is also nice design.
2) Coolness
This solution of software and hardware together and design of the display is something new for laptop. It's something any other brand hasn't balls to do. Apple likes to surprise people like that and set trends.
3) Brand awareness
It's something people talk about, it's controversial. Good for marketing. And the laptop will be recognizable from the first look. Better than small label "Macbook Pro" under the display.
So, these three motives are I think the main reasons for Apple doing notch. These circa 45 px of gain and no-jumping menu bar in fullscreen are nice to have side benefits of that solution.
What do you think?
Everybody was concerning if you're not losing some screen real estate with notch and they got to the realization that no, we're gaining vertical 74 pixels of screen real estate. But keep going with me and count.
Display is 14.2" to the round corner. 14" below the notch (correctly below the menubar).
So what is a gain of 14.2" display with notch vs. 14" display without notch and with bigger top bezel? You think 74 pixel of vertical screen space? Surprisingly but logically no.
1) Fullscreen mode
Fullscreen is same. 0 px gain. Only when you would go on 14" display with your mouse to the top for menu, menu bar would show up and move the window down. For 74 pixels? No, menubar without notch is vertically shorter, it's maybe around 50 px? (lazy to measure)
2) Normal mode
a) If you have in your settings menu bar set to automatic hide, gain of screen real estate is again 0 px for 14.2" with notch vs. 14" without notch (unless you would make narrow window and stretch it to the top beside the notch, but who would do it?).
b) If you have menu bar present all the time on your desktop, gain is again not 74 px but height of old menu bar so again maybe around 50 px. But in that "normal window mode" probably nobody would even notice having about some 50 px more because you already use smaller no-fullscreen windows.
And then look, bottom of menu bar on new MBP is not aligned to the bottom of the notch. It's lower because it's of course looking better that way. So, display in same size of notebook could be even bigger than 14" to align with bottom of notch. Maybe display would be I don't know 14.01" so the gain of space for 14.2" vs that display would be even less than 50 px, maybe 45 px and just in that one particular case of 2b).
I don't know. This gain of space doesn't look like something worth pursuing. Do you think Apple would make so big change of look of the macbook because of 45 px of more screen real estate?
I think that the most likely reasons for notch were those:
1) Design
They probably think the screen with same size of bezels on all sides of display looks better and they are probably right. And people wanted small bezels, so they did. And the top rounded corners is also nice design.
2) Coolness
This solution of software and hardware together and design of the display is something new for laptop. It's something any other brand hasn't balls to do. Apple likes to surprise people like that and set trends.
3) Brand awareness
It's something people talk about, it's controversial. Good for marketing. And the laptop will be recognizable from the first look. Better than small label "Macbook Pro" under the display.
So, these three motives are I think the main reasons for Apple doing notch. These circa 45 px of gain and no-jumping menu bar in fullscreen are nice to have side benefits of that solution.
What do you think?
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I think the reason for the notch with the so called 'extra space' and thin bezels, is to offset the thicker heavier look of the macbook pro in general. My guess is they started with a larger display, then realized they couldn't put all they wanted in the bezel and added the notch.
It's been a weird decision. In my experience people who need pro power couldn't care less about the camera quality or microphone. So why introduce a protruding shape on your display...who are they appeasing? Probably people who don't need the power but want it nonetheless.
You’ve not been in the MacBook forums on here much, or Reddit then, as tons of people have been complaining about the MacBook camera quality! ?
Edit: example after a 30 seconds search on this forum:
Why doesn't 2018+ MacBook Pro have a 1080p FaceTime HD camera?
The iMac Pro was released in December 2017 with a 1080p FaceTime HD camera. The 2018 MacBook Pro should have had the 1080p FaceTime HD camera and it still doesn't, even the MacBook Air doesn't have it either. The iMac Pro also have the T2 chip, the 2018 MacBook Pro was updated with the T2 chip...
forums.macrumors.com
FaceTime HD Camera
Hey Everyone, Anyone have any hope that Apple will update the FaceTime camera in the MacBook/iMac line? The current offering is abysmally poor and I choose to FaceTime with my phone due to the drastic improvement in quality. Any rumours of Apple ever just putting the Face ID setup from the X...
forums.macrumors.com
How does 2020 13" MBP Camera compare to MBA?
My friend got the new 2020 MacBook Air and the front camera is terrible -- worse than my 2012 Air I'm about to replace. I'm wondering whether the new 13" Pro has any better camera quality? I was originally going to get the Air, but I may pay the extra $300 for a Pro if the camera is improved. I...
forums.macrumors.com
MacBook Pro Camera
Why can’t Apple place a better camera in the MacBook Pro lineup? is the display to thin? it just seems odd to me. Thanks
forums.macrumors.com
16GB of RAM, 720p camera, seriously?
This is some kind of sad joke. Like, "let's test that thing without spending anything and see what happens"? A 720p facetime camera in 2020???
forums.macrumors.com
Thinking of cancelling new M1 MacBook Pro order due to notch
It was either the notch or a nose picker Camera. The only other options would be no Camera or huge Bezels.
forums.macrumors.com
Last edited:
Not sure what you're trying to prove.You’ve not been in the MacBook forums on here much, or Reddit then, as tons of people have been complaining about the MacBook camera quality! ?
Edit: example after a 30 seconds search on this forum:
Why doesn't 2018+ MacBook Pro have a 1080p FaceTime HD camera?
The iMac Pro was released in December 2017 with a 1080p FaceTime HD camera. The 2018 MacBook Pro should have had the 1080p FaceTime HD camera and it still doesn't, even the MacBook Air doesn't have it either. The iMac Pro also have the T2 chip, the 2018 MacBook Pro was updated with the T2 chip...
FaceTime HD Camera
Hey Everyone, Anyone have any hope that Apple will update the FaceTime camera in the MacBook/iMac line? The current offering is abysmally poor and I choose to FaceTime with my phone due to the drastic improvement in quality. Any rumours of Apple ever just putting the Face ID setup from the X...
How does 2020 13" MBP Camera compare to MBA?
My friend got the new 2020 MacBook Air and the front camera is terrible -- worse than my 2012 Air I'm about to replace. I'm wondering whether the new 13" Pro has any better camera quality? I was originally going to get the Air, but I may pay the extra $300 for a Pro if the camera is improved. I...
MacBook Pro Camera
Why can’t Apple place a better camera in the MacBook Pro lineup? is the display to thin? it just seems odd to me. Thanks
16GB of RAM, 720p camera, seriously?
This is some kind of sad joke. Like, "let's test that thing without spending anything and see what happens"? A 720p facetime camera in 2020???
Thinking of cancelling new M1 MacBook Pro order due to notch
It was either the notch or a nose picker Camera. The only other options would be no Camera or huge Bezels.
Video calling is very common amongst pros now. I care a lot about a good quality mic and camera and I don’t use any of those things outside of a work context.
I'm sure you can find many other people who agree with you.
But this is not so much a numbers game, I'm saying the vast majority of people who actually need the power of this machine don't care if it's a 720p of 1080p camera. They simply don't use the machine as a communication device, they use it to create. The percentage of users who need this machine is probably <20%, the vast majority doesn't need the power, but wants one.
And to go as far as to change the shape of a display for its intended audience, seems odd.
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This... and if the notch shape gradually seeps into the public’s conscience (look at iPhones) as essentially an alternative apple logo, it will actually become a desired feature to the appearances-conscious (especially as new Macs seem not to feature the apple logo or model name on the front): it’s the new apple-identifier...
You stated how people who need pro power don't care about the camera, as per the below quote:
Thus, I provided a small selection of evidence that disproves your point.
You’ve not been in the MacBook forums on here much, or Reddit then, as tons of people have been complaining about the MacBook camera quality! ?
Edit: example after a 30 seconds search on this forum:
Why doesn't 2018+ MacBook Pro have a 1080p FaceTime HD camera?
The iMac Pro was released in December 2017 with a 1080p FaceTime HD camera. The 2018 MacBook Pro should have had the 1080p FaceTime HD camera and it still doesn't, even the MacBook Air doesn't have it either. The iMac Pro also have the T2 chip, the 2018 MacBook Pro was updated with the T2 chip...
FaceTime HD Camera
Hey Everyone, Anyone have any hope that Apple will update the FaceTime camera in the MacBook/iMac line? The current offering is abysmally poor and I choose to FaceTime with my phone due to the drastic improvement in quality. Any rumours of Apple ever just putting the Face ID setup from the X...
How does 2020 13" MBP Camera compare to MBA?
My friend got the new 2020 MacBook Air and the front camera is terrible -- worse than my 2012 Air I'm about to replace. I'm wondering whether the new 13" Pro has any better camera quality? I was originally going to get the Air, but I may pay the extra $300 for a Pro if the camera is improved. I...
MacBook Pro Camera
Why can’t Apple place a better camera in the MacBook Pro lineup? is the display to thin? it just seems odd to me. Thanks
16GB of RAM, 720p camera, seriously?
This is some kind of sad joke. Like, "let's test that thing without spending anything and see what happens"? A 720p facetime camera in 2020???
Thinking of cancelling new M1 MacBook Pro order due to notch
It was either the notch or a nose picker Camera. The only other options would be no Camera or huge Bezels.
So, it's weird that you didn't get my point, as it's clear as day.
You didn't disprove anything I've said.
You think pro users are a majority on forums like this or reddit?
It's a small group compared to the main public, so no wonder you could find many posts mentioning a camera problem.
What I claimed was, that the majority of users that need pro-hardware don't care about their webcam fidelity. So Apple introducing a notch on a display for their target audience seems odd.
Haha, there's posts all over, that's just a small selection after a quick search, as I stated. You can find similar all over the place.
Also, it's equally the case that pro users do not care about the notch, seeing as they're getting extra screen real estate, since the menu bar is shifted to the new extra space.
As well put by another user in another thread (@PinkyMacGodess):
"The notch is in a place that wouldn't exist in the current MBP. Apple 'gave' you a higher screen, and used the extra height of the screen to move the menu bar there, that took up space that you couldn't live without under most circumstances, and put it into that gifted higher screen area. So, from what I've read, the active screen is the same size, but the menu bar is gone. You have access to ALL of that screen, without a menu bar. Is the notch a problem with all of that being stated? They seem to be saying the screen is larger, with less constraints. Sounds like I could learn to live with the notch."
Also, it's equally the case that pro users do not care about the notch, seeing as they're getting extra screen real estate, since the menu bar is shifted to the new extra space.
As well put by another user in another thread (@PinkyMacGodess):
"The notch is in a place that wouldn't exist in the current MBP. Apple 'gave' you a higher screen, and used the extra height of the screen to move the menu bar there, that took up space that you couldn't live without under most circumstances, and put it into that gifted higher screen area. So, from what I've read, the active screen is the same size, but the menu bar is gone. You have access to ALL of that screen, without a menu bar. Is the notch a problem with all of that being stated? They seem to be saying the screen is larger, with less constraints. Sounds like I could learn to live with the notch."
Your point of view is an artificially exaggerated hatred and claims that most the pro users hate it as much as you do, which is not the case.
Do pro users want a notch & would like there not to be one? Yes. Do they have a hatred for it? No. The benefits of the new devices mean that the dislike for the notch is a drop in the pond.
It's funny that you think that Pro users don't care about the camera quality, but do care about a small area of the screen that's in middle of the menu bar, the area being one that was dead space in the menu, being taken up. ?
It's funny how I'm refusing to understand your point of view, but you're refusing to understand mine. Maybe because you're realising how OTT you're being. ?
Would anyone know the resolutions these new computers will operate on?
Old 13 was 2560x1600 = 1280x800 - they were given with 1440x900 set.
Old 15 was 2880x1800 = 1440x900 - they were given with 1680x1050 set.
What are these new ones?
2950x1890 (discounting the notch's 74) = 1475x945 .... ?
And the 16" is 3382x2160 = 1691x1080 .... ?
Old 13 was 2560x1600 = 1280x800 - they were given with 1440x900 set.
Old 15 was 2880x1800 = 1440x900 - they were given with 1680x1050 set.
What are these new ones?
2950x1890 (discounting the notch's 74) = 1475x945 .... ?
And the 16" is 3382x2160 = 1691x1080 .... ?
Yes you’re correct, they essentially added screen real estate to the sides of the notch. Full screen apps like safari don’t even use the notch space, which has the added benefit of no longer requiring you to scroll past the top of the screen to pull up the menu bar (it just appears around the notch and then disappears again when not in use). I think people who are upset haven’t likely seen how it works in person, it’s implemented very well.
But they didn't introduce a notch. It was always there. You just couldn't interact with the areas either side of the camera because it was a black bezel. Now it's pixels. Nothing has changed pretty much apart from basically giving us extra screen real estate! It's a big win in the end. I think you'll like it, unlike the notch on the phone which isn't as useful and does get in the way of content.
Given screen real estate is not for apps but just for menubar, which in previous macbooks was not in a way of anything in real usage. That was my point. There's no real practical increase of screen real estate for apps.
I don’t like the notch and still think that it is not a good design. After working a week on my new 16” I can say that I do not recognize it and it is okay
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the menu bar is now where there was a bezel. Thus the area below is no longer a menu bar + app, but all app. Pretty sure that means you get more screen real estate in normal usage.
Yeah. After two weeks I've totally forgotten about it. I don't even see it. Unlike the phone where I'm constantly reminded of its existence.
The problem isn't the notch, but how Apple implemented it. Programs with large numbers of menu items disappear into the nottch, forcing you to use that option to show the app below the ntich (so much for more screen real estate). Icons on the right side also disappear into the notch if there are too many, requiring a third party app to see the hidden ones.