Things you HATE about Macs...

[CalBoy]

Yeah, this really does say it all. If Apple dev is as condescending as a large part of its fanbase, it's going to be a while before we see a feature people have been clamoring for for years. Seriously, as someone else said, I can't tell whether I find inferior implementation or people who can't help putting you down for not liking said inferior implementation more irritating. In either case, these are easily the two least appealing parts of Macland for me.

These two characteristics are appealing?

In any case, I don't think maximize is all that useful anyway. The ONLY app I like to have full screen is Safari. And, since I set it to be that way the first time 'round, I've never had to bother with it again. Doesn't seem like we need a fourth button IMHO.

NO it doesn't. Because you can only resize with the bottom right side you have to drag it around first and then move to the bottom right, and then resize to make a perfect fit...

I sort of like that feature; it prevents accidental resizing. That's just me though. :shrugs:

Btw: I bet you never use the green button, but you probably won't admit it. Just let us people who prefer working on a single app without being distracted have the green button to maximize okay....

I fail to see how multiple windows can be a distraction. Are you telling me that you can't keep your eyes focused on one window at a time? The only good argument for a maximize button in my opinion is if you have a very small screen and have the need to see a large portion of the window. In that case, drag it out. You only need to do it once.

Keep my green button as is please, it knows a lot more than you give it credit for.

This is just wrong (again). I gave reasons for why I use the maximize function. You don't use it - I get that. But where do you get off implying people are stupid or flawed or lazy or needy who do use the maximize function? Is it really that hard to look beyond your usage habits and acknowledge that, although you don't use something, other people might need to use it? Why is it so hard to see that other people might honestly benefit from a function you don't use? This kind of condescension is mind-boggling.

OK, calm down. And secondly, BV is just trying to tell you that you would actually be quite productive if you were to leave that shell of wanting maximized windows. Give it a try, it does do a lot.

 

[anjinha]

Here's the thing: Mac OSX is about multitasking. So it makes sense that the green button works in a way that helps multitasking.

Yes, sometimes people need to maximize a window. But in those times they can just drag the corner of the window to make it full-screen. I understand that it must be annoying sometimes, and for me is too, but the advantages of the way the green button works most of the times is far better than if it was a maximize button.

Most mac users don't want/need a maximize button, so it makes sense that Apple keeps the green button as it is. It's not like you can't maximize a window, you just can't maximize a window with one button.

 

[heatmiser]

BV is just trying to tell you that you would actually be quite productive if you were to leave that shell of wanting maximized windows. Give it a try, it does do a lot.

It gets to me when lots of people say "hey, i wish this function existed", and other people put them down for desiring something other than the status quo. The ability to acknowledge the needs of others is something most children pick up by the time they're through elementary school. We're all adults here--the concept of a full-screen application shouldn't be derided as a character flaw or a refusal to give the green button a fair chance.

 

[Slip]

It gets to me when lots of people say "hey, i wish this function existed", and other people put them down for desiring something other than the status quo. The ability to acknowledge the needs of others is something most children pick up by the time they're through elementary school. We're all adults here--the concept of a full-screen application shouldn't be derided as a character flaw or a refusal to give the green button a fair chance.

Indeed. And isn't this thread about bringing up things that we would like to change about OS X. Constructive criticism guys.

 

[smooth]

This is my first Mac and Leopard, with very little Panther, is the only OS of Mac's that I've used. I must say thus far, I like it the best. Because the vast majority of my prior experience is with Windows/PCs there's only 2 things that I think are done better. And I do not "hate" these things, they are just minor things.

1. Options when saving files. With Windows, it is very easy to save files to customized sub-folders. I have yet to find a way to do it with my Mac.

2. Only "Pro" models come in 15". I would have loved to been able to spend a similar amount on 15" Macbook specifically for the screen size.

 

[CalBoy]

It gets to me when lots of people say "hey, i wish this function existed", and other people put them down for desiring something other than the status quo. The ability to acknowledge the needs of others is something most children pick up by the time they're through elementary school. We're all adults here--the concept of a full-screen application shouldn't be derided as a character flaw or a refusal to give the green button a fair chance.

Well I understand why you want a full sized window at times, but I can't really understand why there needs to be a button for it. The green button is actually quite powerful (it is not a mere "restore").

Since you're on the side that wishes to have this additional button, can you tell me how many times you actively resize your windows from smaller to full screen? Since the apps "remember" your last size, I don't see the need to do it more than a handful of times. And, seeing as how most users who settle in with OS X realize that full screen windows aren't really too productive, I question the need for a button that will only be used a handful of times by a handful of people.

 

[heatmiser]

Well I understand why you want a full sized window at times, but I can't really understand why there needs to be a button for it. The green button is actually quite powerful (it is not a mere "restore").

Since you're on the side that wishes to have this additional button, can you tell me how many times you actively resize your windows from smaller to full screen? Since the apps "remember" your last size, I don't see the need to do it more than a handful of times. And, seeing as how most users who settle in with OS X realize that full screen windows aren't really too productive, I question the need for a button that will only be used a handful of times by a handful of people.

Well, I'm not actually looking for a new button. It would be neat if you could change the function of the existing button in preferences (either system prefs or those for an individual program), toggling between whether it functioned as a "zoom" button or as a "maximize" button. In general, being able to map different functions to the buttons would take care of everything. That way, the external look would be the same, but there'd be options for change "under the hood", so to speak.

 

[Blue Velvet]

It gets to me when lots of people say "hey, i wish this function existed", and other people put them down for desiring something other than the status quo.

It gets to me when people come onto a dedicated Mac forum to complain about an OS that serves millions of professional and home users perfectly adequately each day, and because they miss a feature of Windows that's an archaic holdover, demand that the environment is changed to suit their needs. And instead of making attempts to understand why things work a certain way, insist the flaw lies with Apple.

Just which behaviour is more arrogant?

 

[Eraserhead]

Since you're on the side that wishes to have this additional button, can you tell me how many times you actively resize your windows from smaller to full screen? Since the apps "remember" your last size, I don't see the need to do it more than a handful of times. And, seeing as how most users who settle in with OS X realize that full screen windows aren't really too productive, I question the need for a button that will only be used a handful of times by a handful of people.

It could do this functionality with an alt-click or something though...

 

[robbieduncan]

Well, I'm not actually looking for a new button. It would be neat if you could change the function of the existing button in preferences (either system prefs or those for an individual program), toggling between whether it functioned as a "zoom" button or as a "maximize" button. In general, being able to map different functions to the buttons would take care of everything. That way, the external look would be the same, but there'd be options for change "under the hood", so to speak.

Have you any idea what you are asking for? Each app that currently works correctly with the green button would have to be re-coded.

 

[HLdan]

It gets to me when lots of people say "hey, i wish this function existed", and other people put them down for desiring something other than the status quo. The ability to acknowledge the needs of others is something most children pick up by the time they're through elementary school. We're all adults here--the concept of a full-screen application shouldn't be derided as a character flaw or a refusal to give the green button a fair chance.

That's not the problem, people aren't just putting other people down for wanting something that doesn't exist, it's the fact that people choose to buy something new but want it to work like what they just switched from. It's the behavioral pattern some of the switchers have.
I look at it this way, if it's gotta work like the previous than stay with the previous, that's why people stay on XP rather than switch to Vista. I see absolutely no reason to fix what ain't broken, if I liked what I had before then there's no reason to switch.
Switching to something new means accepting what you are buying and learn to use it the way it is. You can say all day how much you hate it but it hasn't changed and this particular feature on the Mac OS has been in existence since 1984 so why would Apple change it just to satisfy the switchers?

I am all for suggestions because the Mac OS isn't perfect but the Mac OS is based on logic rather you agree or not so telling the forum or Apple you want it to work the way Microsoft does it may not change what's legendary about the system.

Hey, why can't Microsoft Windows just do drag and drop installation like the Mac OS? I hate that MS never made it like that, it's so stupid to always go through several install steps. If I left the Mac and switched to Windows I would hate dealing with the fact that Windows can't do that but that's why I left Windows to choose a system that "DOES WHAT I NEED FOR IT TO DO".
If I spend my money I should be using a system that does what I need for it to do otherwise it's a waste.

 

[mpw]

Well, if this isn't rhetorical, Command "R" brings up the rulers on many Applications, only a few don't use that command. I have never used SeaShore, but if it's 3rd party then one would expect the shortcuts to be different....

That's kinda my point, you have to remember different commands for different applications, partly because the keyboard menu navigation is not as good in OSX as it is in MS Windows.

It's like walking into a Ferrari showroom and asking for automatic transmission....

Many customers did just that, hence the 575GTA being the bigger seller in the US, and every Ferrari has automatic gearboxes. Maserati produced an automatic of their Quatroporto after customers expressed a preference.

...Easier to invent flaws in what you're using, rather than acknowledge the flaws in yourself...

Preference is hardly a flaw.

If the majority preferred to do something one way, and a minority prefer a different way, are the minority flawed?

 

[heatmiser]

It gets to me when people come onto a dedicated Mac forum to complain...

This thread isn't called "Things you LOVE about Macs." The purpose of this thread was to give a forum to people's quibbles with the OS. If such discussions aren't allowed, why in the world is this thread open, and not locked? And why should people who followed (and not ignored) the purpose of the thread have to defend themselves from people who entered the thread to shout them down with Apple Knows Best ® talk? There are plenty of other threads to talk about how wonderful the green button is. Why crash the one thread where people express a desire for an alternative?

Have you any idea what you are asking for? Each app that currently works correctly with the green button would have to be re-coded.

That was just one way of doing it. It could be added in other ways (hotkeys, Alt+combinations, etc). And in truth, I'm not nearly as preoccupied with this as I am with the hardware problems of OS X. It's relatively manageable to work around the lack of a maximize function. It's a lot harder to work around a faulty power adapter, or a yellow screen, or (insert hardware bug here). If anything, I wish Apple would spend less time adding eye candy to their software, and more time double-checking their hardware--especially since that's where the majority of their profits come in. I can deal with Leopard by downgrading to Tiger. I can't deal with a frayed Magsafe by buying a generic adapter that doesn't cost $80 and break down in a year.

 

[Blue Velvet]

This thread isn't called "Things you LOVE about Macs." The purpose of this thread was to give a forum to people's quibbles with the OS. If such discussions aren't allowed, why in the world is this thread open, and not locked?

Of course, discussions like this are allowed, as much as it is also allowed for people to point out the obvious flaws in what people are saying.

I also dislike certain aspects of certain Macs — or more accurately, Apple — for different reasons, but since I have made my living from working with and on them for almost 20 years, know that certain things are done in a certain way for good reason.

And so, in the main, the quibbles and the tone in which they're expressed, come across as churlish and most importantly, inflexible in trying to understand why something is the way it is.

You can maximise a window on your Mac, you just do it in a different way than in Windows. It's that simple.

 

[Jim Campbell]

It gets to me when people come onto a dedicated Mac forum to complain about an OS ... because they miss a feature of Windows that's an archaic holdover ...

Heh. I have to admit, it mystifies me - particularly those who pi$$ and moan about the absence of something like Windows Explorer ...

Windows Explorer has never seemed more (to me) than a slightly different implementation of File Manager from Windows 3.x ... why in God's name would you choose to move to an OS that's specifically noted for a more integrated visual approach to its interface, and then b!tch because, well, gee, it has a more visual approach to its interface.

Inconsistent or illogical behaviour, by all means b!tch away. On the subject of which, can I just say: New Folder = CMD-SHIFT-N? Whose bright idea was that?

Cheers

Jim

 

[Slip]

Of course, discussions like this are allowed, as much as it is also allowed for people to point out the obvious flaws in what people are saying.

I also dislike certain aspects of certain Macs — or more accurately, Apple — for different reasons, but since I have made my living from working with and on them for almost 20 years, know that certain things are done in a certain way for good reason.

And so, in the main, the quibbles and the tone in which they're expressed, come across as churlish and most importantly, inflexible in trying to understand why something is the way it is.

You can maximise a window on your Mac, you just do it in a different way than in Windows. It's that simple.

Wow, practically a page of discussion for that
I see your point, in some uses multitasking does work better but at others fullscreen would be nice. The way at which this is achieved is different to what people may expect but you can get there in the end. My point was it would be nice to have to ability to have the green button fullscreen an application.
Just because the way OS X does something compared to Windows is different doesn't always make the OS X way better straight out.

 

[SkyBell]

I too, really hate the "maximize" button or whatever you call it. I assumed it made the window full screen, and I can't understand why anyone would want two or three windows of different applications up at the same time. (Which is why this button is useless to me. I find my myself dragging the lower right hand side of a window to the corner to make it full screen.)

My iBook G3's ****ing logic board problems.

Why is there no microphone port in the mini?

Force quit is just about as useful as a blind and deaf watchdog.

All the ****ing keyboard shortcuts. It's probably just me, but it really irks me when someone has a problem and someone tells them to "use so-and-so keyboard shortcut, what are you, stupid?" I've had my mini for almost a year now, and I don't know any keyboard shortcuts. I don't want to learn them either. I don't see the point in remembering 50+ keyboard shortcuts which save me maybe 5 seconds time tops. To me, they're just stupid and pointless.

I guess that's about it, though. Otherwise, I love my mac.

 

[Blue Velvet]

I can't understand why anyone would want two or three windows of different applications up at the same time.

Because some of us can do more than one thing at one time... right now, I've got Safari open, another Safari window open with the forum buddy list, some work I'm doing open in QuarkXpress and Illustrator which I'm taking a break from, a handy TextEdit document open that I use for moderating... iCal, Mail and iTunes are open as well. And that's a slow evening.

In a professional graphics environment, like using CS3, I can drag and drop page items and graphics from one program's window to another; an essential way of working.

 

[savanahrose]

I agree with that one. I'm slightly jealous of my Windows friends who hit shut down, close the lid, and tuck the notebook in their bag. Of course, it encourages you to make sure the disk stops spinning before picking it up and putting it in the bag, which is good, but I still wish I could close the lid without it sleeping after I initiate the shut down sequence.

My husband has a windows laptop and I hit shutdown the other night. I closed the lid thinking it was going to shutdown. I went back to the laptop maybe twenty minutes later and it was still on shutdown. it finally shutdown after the lid was raised.

I just wish the wireless mighty mouse had a right and left click button and I used to hate the constancy of the rainbow pinwheel, back in the g3 days, but htose days are long gone.

It also took me a while to get used to the idiosyncrocies of osx, but when I really gave it a chance I fell in love....

You know what is funny. My family said you want a what??!!! I wanted to get a mac. I told everybody hands off! Now I have a slight problem everybody loves MY mac! My hubby wants to give his new laptop to our son and get him a macbook. My daughter wants to get herself a mac when she goes into the military. My son has yet to really sit down at the mac day to day (he lives on his own in another state) but I am sure if he did he would want a mac too.
My sister was just putting down a mac yesterday when I was talking to her. she may see the light one day.

Oh yeah as for the question: The only thing wrong with the mac is trying to remember all of the commands. when leopard came out it changed a command or 2 didn't it?

 

[Mekgek]

Because some of us can do more than one thing at one time... right now, I've got Safari open, another Safari window open with the forum buddy list, some work I'm doing open in QuarkXpress and Illustrator which I'm taking a break from, a handy TextEdit document open that I use for moderating... iCal, Mail and iTunes are open as well. And that's a slow evening.

In a professional graphics environment, like using CS3, I can drag and drop page items and graphics from one program's window to another; an essential way of working.

Sure I work that way too, but quite often I like to focus all my attention on just one 'maximized' app, using the green button for this would be great. Who are you to judge other people and tell them how to use their operating system............

 

[Slip]

All the ****ing keyboard shortcuts. It's probably just me, but it really irks me when someone has a problem and someone tells them to "use so-and-so keyboard shortcut, what are you, stupid?" I've had my mini for almost a year now, and I don't know any keyboard shortcuts. I don't want to learn them either. I don't see the point in remembering 50+ keyboard shortcuts which save me maybe 5 seconds time tops. To me, they're just stupid and pointless.

I *heart* them. For my lazy self they mean that I don't have to move my hands away from the keyboard to the mouse to perform some menial task like closing a window. The basics are a must and are very handy (Cmd + W for closing a window for example).

 

[Blue Velvet]

Sure I work that way too, but quite often I like to focus all my attention on just one 'maximized' app, using the green button for this would be great. Who are you to judge other people and tell them how to use their operating system............

What's the problem? You can maximise your windows. The green button does something else akin to the way it's been done on Macs for the last 20+ years.

Who am I? Someone with an opinion, much as you are. But when people want Apple to rewrite their OS and force developers to recode their apps so that a small minority of people can stay in a comfort zone, it's that sense of entitlement that we hear so much about... and it's just utterly inflexible.

If I go and drive a car on the mainland of Europe, I have to drive on the other side of the road and drive a vehicle with a steering wheel on the other side of the car. So, I adjust, instead of saying this is silly... or it doesn't work like I think it should or want.

 

[CalBoy]

Well, I'm not actually looking for a new button. It would be neat if you could change the function of the existing button in preferences (either system prefs or those for an individual program), toggling between whether it functioned as a "zoom" button or as a "maximize" button. In general, being able to map different functions to the buttons would take care of everything. That way, the external look would be the same, but there'd be options for change "under the hood", so to speak.

Well this points out your ignorance of the green button. Why don't you read up on it and experiment, and when you realize its current potential in OS X, come back and tell us if you have the same views. A "simple" reprograming would in actuality be quite burdensome and require a great deal of work. And for what exactly? To help keep new switchers in a comfort zone that they ought to learn to leave.

It could do this functionality with an alt-click or something though...

True... just leave my green button alone!

Have you any idea what you are asking for? Each app that currently works correctly with the green button would have to be re-coded.

Yes, thank you!

This thread isn't called "Things you LOVE about Macs." The purpose of this thread was to give a forum to people's quibbles with the OS. If such discussions aren't allowed, why in the world is this thread open, and not locked? And why should people who followed (and not ignored) the purpose of the thread have to defend themselves from people who entered the thread to shout them down with Apple Knows Best ® talk? There are plenty of other threads to talk about how wonderful the green button is. Why crash the one thread where people express a desire for an alternative?

This thread is about what we don't like about Macs, but your gripe is derived from ignorance and an insistence to have OS X be a prettier "Windows."

Perhaps if you could give me a qualitative or quantitative response to my earlier question of how often you actually resize windows from smaller to max, we would be able to have a reasonable discussion about it. For now, you are taking the "you're all fanboys" approach, and I don't appreciate it.

That was just one way of doing it. It could be added in other ways (hotkeys, Alt+combinations, etc). And in truth, I'm not nearly as preoccupied with this as I am with the hardware problems of OS X. It's relatively manageable to work around the lack of a maximize function. It's a lot harder to work around a faulty power adapter, or a yellow screen, or (insert hardware bug here). If anything, I wish Apple would spend less time adding eye candy to their software, and more time double-checking their hardware--especially since that's where the majority of their profits come in. I can deal with Leopard by downgrading to Tiger. I can't deal with a frayed Magsafe by buying a generic adapter that doesn't cost $80 and break down in a year.

Definitely a worthy argument. QA seems to have suffered recently. How many hardware flaws have you had to suffer with lately?

Sure I work that way too, but quite often I like to focus all my attention on just one 'maximized' app, using the green button for this would be great. Who are you to judge other people and tell them how to use their operating system............

Just what is wrong with being told how to do things correctly? If you were driving recklessly, wouldn't it be prudent to advise you to stop? If you weren't fully utilizing a blender, oven, or any other appliance, wouldn't it be nice if someone told you how to use it better?

Nothing is different here. OS X is designed to be more productive, and part of that stems from being able to access multiple windows at once. Sure you might like full screen windows because that's how you're accustomed to doing things, but that doesn't mean you can insist that you have absolute immunity to new ideas.

As for the green button, some reading needs to be done collectively, because there appears to be a misunderstanding as to the nature of its purpose.

 

[72930]

I hate how few phones are supported natively, and the fact that there is (so far) no way to play MSN games without hassle...

 

[valdore]

Keyboard shortcuts are more useful for hard core graphics work; say, running and switching between Photoshop, Illustrator, and InDesign or Quark all at the same time.