This forum is going crazy about the new MacBook Pro!

[ducati1212]

Most of the posts I see in here are people complaining about them. I think day 1 people were going nuts just off the specs but now we have them and they are just kinda meh. With alder lake out now and much faster the noise will go down.

 

[ASX]

But Alderlake is bad for final cut. Not appreciated by a lot Apple mbp pro users.

 

[lambertjohn]

When you compare it to similarly spec’d competitors, the cost is actually quite competitive.

How so? Most every competitor out there has a model with an 11th gen i7, 16GB of Ram, 512GB HD and 1080p screen, for less than $1000. Some even less than $800. Lenovo. Dell. Acer. Yeah, they're Intel-based computers, and yeah, they run Windows, but seriously, what can the MBP do that a Windows-based laptop can't do? Look pretty? I'm just saying, the Mac is great but there are way cheaper alternatives out there. But before you bash me, I actually bought a new 14" MBP instead of one of those cheaper alternatives. Mostly because my whole ecosystem is Apple and I wanted to stick with that. But if it wasn't, I'd go with a Windows-based laptop in a heartbeat.

 

[ASX]

The windows laptop has no 2596 dimming zone hdr 1000 sustained 1600 peak screen 😉. For a laptop with 17", 3840x2160 screen, 512 dimming zone, hdr 1000 peak and sustained screen you have to pay 4499 Euros. The macbook is in this single case competitive. And it has a Lg screen instead of a AUO screen. Spares the panel lottery to "only" pixel failures and homogenity. AUO is known for having dust or other crap inside the panel very oftenly.

I wont play this panel lottery for an 4499 Euro laptop. I have played it for 3500 Euro PG32UQX with AUO panels. 9 of 11 times dust. 1 time pixel failures, 1 time no pixel failures or dust but ultra bad magenta, grey, brown, grey tinted color uniformity and very bad brightness uniformity.

But you are right, if you have no need for hdr or appleos based exclusive apps, a windows laptop would be the better choice.

And when you need hdr, you can use the Asus Vivobook 14 Pro or Lenovo Slim Yoga 7 Pro. It has the new 14" 90 hz Samsung 2880 x 1800 amoled panel. For Lenovo you can take for a few bucks more 3 -4 years warranty and you should be save for self paid repair because of burn in.

 

[skaertus]

It's all the have nots making up fake posts about how lame the new macbook pros are, trying to justify why they won't get one when it's just they cant afford it.

Well, I do not think the new MacBook Pro is lame. I just think it is not for me. Yes, it is too expensive. I could certainly afford it, but I have better use for my money. I do not need this kind of power as I use mainly office applications. And, as I carry around the laptop all day, it is too heavy. It would be an inadequate laptop just to show off, which is precisely what I do not need.

 

[skaertus]

Apple lied though.. I understand when Intel is used in Macs price is high, why is Apple charging so much now they make their own processors ? No reason at all it has to be that high.

I will wait.. Here in Ukraine no one can afford this, maybe deputies.. but average Ukrainian can't. I only got 2015 MacBook Pro because it cheaper now.

I know what you mean. I live in Brazil and Macs are pretty much unaffordable here. The base 14-inch MacBook Pro costs almost $5000 with all the taxes, but the average yearly income of a Brazilian is less than $7000. Even for those who can afford it, it is an unjustifiable expense, and too risky to carry around in a country where it is almost as expensive as jewelry. The MacBook Pro with TouchBar was already too expensive, and I was one of the three people here who I know that owned one (another of them was the CEO of a listed company).

These laptops are made for Americans and, if the rest of the world can afford them, it is fine. The U.S. market can pretty much absorb much of the production and Apple seems to be satisfied with that.

 

[ASX]

Why cost it 5000 US Dollar in Brazil? Taxes so high?

 

[skaertus]

Most of the posts I see in here are people complaining about them. I think day 1 people were going nuts just off the specs but now we have them and they are just kinda meh. With alder lake out now and much faster the noise will go down.

I am not sure about it. I have seen all kinds of posts. Lots of posts complaining about the notch, as if it were a big deal. But many were hysterical about the performance. Apple knew how to drive people insane this time.

Yes, the Alder Lake mobile will be out soon (I suppose it has not shipped yet), and it will be closer in performance to the M1 series. Apple has not upgraded the line this year, and single-core performance remains pretty much the same. While it was significantly faster than last year's Tiger Lake, the gap will be shorter this year.

 

[ducati1212]

I am not sure about it. I have seen all kinds of posts. Lots of posts complaining about the notch, as if it were a big deal. But many were hysterical about the performance. Apple knew how to drive people insane this time.

Yes, the Alder Lake mobile will be out soon (I suppose it has not shipped yet), and it will be closer in performance to the M1 series. Apple has not upgraded the line this year, and single-core performance remains pretty much the same. While it was significantly faster than last year's Tiger Lake, the gap will be shorter this year.

I mean I always get the new top of the line macs because I like to do my development on a mac so I was getting one anyway and I build windows gaming PC's so I need alder lake also. Its a fun time to be a techie.

 

[skaertus]

Why cost it 5000 US Dollar in Brazil? Taxes so high?

Yes. Extremely high taxes. Approximately 50% (or even more) of the final price is composed of taxes. There are several federal and state taxes applicable, some of them on top of others, and it is not clear for consumers how much they are. It is a completely broken tax system that has been like this for over a century and that will probably never change significantly because the government accounts and expenses are just absolutely wrong in so many respects.

All electronics are like this, except those which are produced in Brazil. Some companies have managed to obtain tax benefits from that. Dell is now producing the XPS 13 in Brazil and is selling the base model, with 16 GB RAM and 1 TB SSD, for $1950. LG is selling the Gram 17, with 16 GB RAM and 512 GB SSD, also produced in Brazil, for $1450.

Apple, on the other hand, imports everything, and the prices are astronomical.

 

[ASX]

Your state has no money, i heared about your stupid president (Bolsonaro) who is killing the rain forest to loot the wood. I hope your people wake up and kick this .... out.

@ducati1212

No ddr5 available. Alderlake is no fun if you wont use old ddr 4 memory. I would use it with ddr5 6000 ram.

 

[skaertus]

Your state has no money, i heared about your stupid president (Bolsonaro) who is killing the rain forest to loot the wood. I hope your people wake up and kick this .... out.

It is a pile of problems and the president is just the icing on the cake. Brazil is on a downward spiral since a $100 billion corruption scheme was unveiled in 2014 involving the government. The current president Bolsonaro, in all his stupidity, was elected as an alternative to all this corruption after the previous president Dilma was impeached following the country sinking in a deep crisis. So, we are basically between a rock and a hard place.

The exchange rate is crazy. When the former president (Dilma) was elected, USD 1 = BRL 1.66. Right now, USD 1 = BRL 5.61. The U.S. dollar is basically more than three times more expensive than it used to be, and we have those crazy taxes on top of it. Next year is an election year and the U.S. dollar is expected to go up even further. With no light at the end of the tunnel, and no new reliable faces to run for the presidency, Brazil is going further down.

 

[Warped9]

Technology usually progresses incrementally. But once in awhile we get something that is truly game changing and a distinct leap forward. Thats how I see the introduction if the M series chips.

The new McBooks are not mass market devices, and thats part of their appeal—just as average Joes pine for expensive cars they might never own. Of those who might never own one will be a percentage who will denigrate the very thing they actually would love to have to somehow rationalize why they don’t have one.

I don’t need the power of the new MacBrook Pros, but I am mightily impressed by what Apple has accomplished.

Furthermore as costs of manufacture go down the advantages enjoyed by a few will eventually become commonplace and available to the mass market. SSDs were once at a premium, but now they’re everywhere and the benefits that come with them.

 

[Skewlovevism]

View attachment 1826920

I don't think they are such expensive, it's only a bigger m1 die. Arm cpus are cheap in production.

The m1 cots around 50 US Dollars:

"The $2.5 billion figure was determined by Sumit Gupta, IBM's AI strategy lead, who calculated Apple's M1 production should cost in the range of $40 to $50 per chip against the cost of procuring Intel Core i5 processors at around $175 to $250 a chip."

Apple is only greedy and knows there are many Apple fans who will pay this.

I would really wonder when this m1 max laptop with 1 tb storage and 32 gb ram costs in production more than 500 US Dollars.

I understand, the physical copy might be $50.
How many years and how many engineers, staff, work, …, it took, to create those chips?
Was that all free, done by volunteers? If yes, then $50 is fine.

 

[ASX]

Of course not. But same for any other company who is charging prices. Intel, AMD, Nvidia are doing egineering also not for free. I think this engineering is included in this calculation about financial savings.

 

[Skewlovevism]

It is a pile of problems and the president is just the icing on the cake. Brazil is on a downward spiral since a $100 billion corruption scheme was unveiled in 2014 involving the government. The current president Bolsonaro, in all his stupidity, was elected as an alternative to all this corruption after the previous president Dilma was impeached following the country sinking in a deep crisis. So, we are basically between a rock and a hard place.

The exchange rate is crazy. When the former president (Dilma) was elected, USD 1 = BRL 1.66. Right now, USD 1 = BRL 5.61. The U.S. dollar is basically more than three times more expensive than it used to be, and we have those crazy taxes on top of it. Next year is an election year and the U.S. dollar is expected to go up even further. With no light at the end of the tunnel, and no new reliable faces to run for the presidency, Brazil is going further down.

Plus Pfizer basically blackmailing Brazil, also doesn’t help. it is sad, that people all over the world, are allowing the “ruling classes” to mistreat them so badly.

Anyway. This is an Apple blog, let the boys like toys go on

 

[Pilot Jones]

Apple lied though.. I understand when Intel is used in Macs price is high, why is Apple charging so much now they make their own processors ? No reason at all it has to be that high.

Do you think the Research & Development behind the kind of silicon Apple has created is cheap by any stretch of the imagination?

It has probably cost many billions of dollars annually, developing this level of power & optimization. Intel has been making chips since god knows when and even they haven't ever produced anything like this before.

 

[skaertus]

I understand, the physical copy might be $50.
How many years and how many engineers, staff, work, …, it took, to create those chips?
Was that all free, done by volunteers? If yes, then $50 is fine.

I have no idea of the cost of the physical copy. I also do not know how much Apple spent to develop the chip. This was probably quite a lot, even though Apple may have used a lot of the work already employed on the development of the A-series chips. I also do not know how Apple will depreciate this cost in its balance sheet.

However, regardless of the costs associated with developing and producing the M-series chip, Apple will price the chips according to what it thinks the market will pay for them, according to the relationship between supply and demand.

 

[mollyc]

I understand, the physical copy might be $50.
How many years and how many engineers, staff, work, …, it took, to create those chips?
Was that all free, done by volunteers? If yes, then $50 is fine.

i don’t think you meant to quote me??

 

[skaertus]

Do you think the Research & Development behind the kind of silicon Apple has created is cheap by any stretch of the imagination?

It has probably cost many billions of dollars annually, developing this level of power & optimization. Intel has been making chips since god knows when and even they haven't ever produced anything like this before.

True.

But the research and development team at Apple is working for years now to develop ARM chips for the iPhone and the iPad.

The economies of scale provided by the iPhone sales, which account for roughly half of Apple's revenue, provided the budget necessary for this team to produce a chip that could beat anything else in terms of single-core performance.

Then Apple used all the technology and know-how of the A-series chip, made a version to fit laptops and called it the M-series.

It is not that this development team has been working for 10 years without recovering its expenses. Apple probably already paid off all the development expenses with iPhone sales.

In any case, Apple's smart use of its own resources will not translate into cheaper products, but on additional profits. The only way around this would be if Intel provided some smart competition, but its management has been a mess over the last five years or so, leading Apple to run circles around it.

 

[FilipeTeixeira]

It's absolutely hilarious to see such strong reactions to a "Pro" computer. Apple has plenty of offers (e.g., non-pro, air), for those who don't necessarily need such powerful computer. However, for some reason people still find it necessary to come here shouting on how expensive a pro, highly specific machine is.
Personally, if I can't afford a Macbook Pro, it's because I don't likely need one. If I can, then well, it's because I need it. It doesn't seem like rocket science to me.

 

[Serban55]

As an Maya user, i cannot express my gratitude for Apple for what they delivered for me

 

[ASX]

@FilipeTeixeira

"Pro computer" with only 16 gb not upgradeable ram sounds for me like an insult 😀. 32 gb ram are the bare minimum for a professional. Everything else needs the swap. Which is compared with the ram damn slow. Who will invest so much money if there is such a bottle neck? Nobody wants to pay twice because the soldered ram is not enough.

 

[skaertus]

It's absolutely hilarious to see such strong reactions to a "Pro" computer. Apple has plenty of offers (e.g., non-pro, air), for those who don't necessarily need such powerful computer. However, for some reason people still find it necessary to come here shouting on how expensive a pro, highly specific machine is.
Personally, if I can't afford a Macbook Pro, it's because I don't likely need one. If I can, then well, it's because I need it. It doesn't seem like rocket science to me.

Well, yes and no. It is not that simple.

People became used to seeing the MacBook Pro as a line of non-Pro laptops, as Apple made them thin and light, and attractive to the general consumer base. The new MacBook Pro is different. But, even so, the only laptop in Apple's portfolio with a large screen is an expensive Pro model. As many consumers want a large screen, they have no other option inside Apple's ecosystem other than to swallow the price (and the specs) of this beefy model.

 

[Warped9]

The M1 MacBook Air is a really nice and very capable device for the vast majority of users, delivering more than most will ever need. But some still need to rag on not having easy access to a device few will actually have need for.