Because ycombinator is a legitimate tech discussion site. It isn't some wank-tank like other forums or the disparaging BS from yesterday and not utter garbage like other sites in general. Not sure about Slashdot though. Don't visit them often.
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Thunderbolt 3 Ports on Right Side of 13-Inch MacBook Pro Have Reduced PCI Express Bandwidth
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Ok. This time I am not whining. I honestly can tell you that the past few years with Apple has been awesome - mainly due to its software. I managed to leap-frog Windows 7, 8, 9 and now 10 and have had such a stable and productive period computer wise that I moved all of my work to the OSX/iOS ecosystem and it has saved me a bucket of money (because time = money) to the point that I have had little need to look at recent tech advances in computing to help me get work done better/faster. The mew MBP release has made me reassess things because it's probably time to update everything, before things start failing.
However it does look like the PC world has caught up and my friends are experiencing zero problems getting their work done nowadays and since I have always avoided the vendor lock-in it will be trivial to switch over gradually as devices get old and are replaced. The new MBP looks like it has about 2-3 years of usable life before some big change comes along and it's obsolete. That's just not long enough to justify the cost. Sorry Apple, I am sure it is a great laptop but I'll pass. The choice of ports Apple has made is interesting, they have usually been ahead of the rest on connectivity, so I will make sure I get something at least as good from the competition.
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Because that is the easy and lazy conclusion and people prefer sensationalism above logic.
There's only one bad news and it's bad enough.- New MacBook Pro Has Better Keyboard Than 12-Inch MacBook, But It's Expensiveand Lacking Ports
-New MacBook Pros Max Out at 16GB RAM Due to Battery Life Concerns
-Apple Says It's Out of the Standalone Display Business
-New MacBook Pros Don't Include Backlit Apple Logo or Power Extension Cable
-Thunderbolt 3 Ports on Right Side of 13-Inch MacBook Pro Have Reduced PCI Express Bandwidth
-Apple Continues to Sell Base Model 2015 MacBook Pros at Same Price Points
When will the bad news stop?
Too all those who only find things to complain about, I think you're missing the biggest and most important detail......
The new MacBook Pro is faster than the very first Apple PowerBook that was released 25 years ago.
Seriously... how could you all have missed noting the biggest and most compelling reason to buy the new MacBook Pro????
/sarcasm.... (for the few who need it pointed out).
The new MacBook Pro is faster than the very first Apple PowerBook that was released 25 years ago.
Seriously... how could you all have missed noting the biggest and most compelling reason to buy the new MacBook Pro????
/sarcasm.... (for the few who need it pointed out).
Of course you want the quad core CPU for free, right? Not going to happen.
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https://www.amazon.co.uk/SanDisk-Ul...407&sr=8-1&keywords=usb+c+flash+drive+sandisk
128 GB flash drive by SanDisk, 150 MB/sec, for £36. Which looks like any other flash drive plugged into any other laptop. So yes, F you. Look around for more than two seconds before you complain.
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That's not what I heard at a party last night. Non-techies scoffing at Apple and very happy with their Windows/Google setups (just saying), plus one very concerned small business owner who has been fully invested in Apple gear at his design shop. I wonder how many parents bought their kids MacBooks for post secondary school this year compared to last?
what a cluster **** this company has become.
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So I'm guessing, just like with the slower storage on the low end iPhone 7, Apple won't exactly be forthcoming with this news with its buying customers... I bet it's not on the box or on its website...
Bunch of con artists.
Bunch of con artists.
How about this? I know it's not as pretty, but if you load it up, it's less than a fully loaded Surface Studio.
http://www8.hp.com/us/en/workstations/z1-g3.html
From the specs sheet: "Dual, side-access Thunderbolt 3 ports providing up to 40 Gbps performance and USB 3.1"
Thank you for being curious and not jumping right to conclusions. Every Intel CPU comes with a certain amount of PCIe lanes to connect all the stuff inside the computer. A fast data port like TB3 needs multiple such lanes for speedy transfer. A twice as fast SSD probably also needs twice as many lanes. TouchBar and TouchID probably each use one lane even if they don't transmit a lot of data. So in the end Apple run out of lanes and couldn't connect the TB3 ports on the right side with enough lanes to give them maximum speed. The 15" comes with a bigger CPU with more lanes and the 13" without TouchBar has fewer/slower components inside, so they both had enough lanes spare to connect all ports at full speed. At least that's what I think happened. Basically Apple put more and faster components in this computer than what Intel expected when they designed the CPU.
As for Kaby Lake fixing this problem: Apple will continue trying to put more stuff in their MBPs than what the CPU can handle. They are sailing at the edge and ports with reduced speed will occur at times.
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So how should apple please you, highly important internet whiner?
- put 2 high + 2 low ports, you want 2 high ports (already are there) or 3 (would be 2 high + 1 low, already there)
- put 2 high ports, you whine macbook has just 2 ports
- put a cpu that handles 4 high ports (it’s called the 15 inch quad core)
- put everything above in a 13 inch machine? (if you know how to do that why not start your own company like jobs did)
And most of all, who *** cares if you buy their new laptop? They have no obligation to you. Is BMW obliged to set the power split in the new xdrive like you want it to? Spoiler they also don’t care about you. And neither do we, except for other whiners...
As I see it, it all has a good explanation. Lack of competition. In the Windows "ecosystem", there are many manufacturers of hardware. They have to compete hard for the customers. They have to include the greatest and newest thing, but also have to listen to their customers. If they don't, they can only repeat the same mistake once. Then the customers move to another manufacturer.
With the Apple ecosystem, if you want to use a computer which uses macOS and its software, you have to use Apple computers. Apple has no hardware competition. They know, if people want to use their software, they have to get their hardware. (hackintosh doesn't count, the same way Linux doesn't count for most people). They have become arrogant and they simply have stopped listening.
I don't know if this is going to eventually bite them in the butt one day, I hope it doesn't and they stop acting this way soon.
But...I don't know how. I have a feeling the head of Apple is just not good enough.
At least as far as Macs go.
With the Apple ecosystem, if you want to use a computer which uses macOS and its software, you have to use Apple computers. Apple has no hardware competition. They know, if people want to use their software, they have to get their hardware. (hackintosh doesn't count, the same way Linux doesn't count for most people). They have become arrogant and they simply have stopped listening.
I don't know if this is going to eventually bite them in the butt one day, I hope it doesn't and they stop acting this way soon.
But...I don't know how. I have a feeling the head of Apple is just not good enough.
At least as far as Macs go.
Where did it all go wrong for Apple? I don't believe it was just demise of Steve Jobs. A company that big, with that much resource, expertise, collective intelligence and reach should not have failed like this. It's painful to watch Apple fail as a twenty year customer and at one-time a sort of self confessed fan boy, I guess. But this...this is just a diabolical train wreck of a company now who's products have totally lost focus and functionality. Apple seem to want to take anything that works and change it, break it, just so they can say they've changed things. While I never thought I'd say it, I think I'm likely to try out the new Microsoft Surface Studio - this is the sort of product Apple was meant to make. Microsoft is the new Apple. I never thought, in a million years I would ever say that, but there you go.
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Before I start, I assume the motherboard across the range has a Platform Controller Hub that carries 8 PCIe lanes, 4 of which will be used for the PCIe SSD and the other 4 split between onboard camera, touch bar if available, and maybe WIFI.
This does't sound like the first time that Apple has shared ports with controllers. The Mac Pro's 6 Thunderbolt 2 ports are fed by 3 Falcon Ridge Thunderbolt Controllers - shouldn't this have been mentioned as sharing bandwidth too?
One pertinent point here is to ask why the base Macbook pro 13" with the i5-6360U CPU has just 2 Thunderbolt 3/USB-C ports.
That CPU also has 12 PCIe lanes, similar to the i5-6267U which is in use in the middle and top models with the Touch bar. The mobile Kaby Lake CPUs that have been released so far also have 12 PCIe lanes so I wouldn't expect anything different next year.
Given that there's 12 PCIe lanes available shouldn't they have used 3 Thunderbolt 3/USB-C ports across the 13" range rather than having 2 of the ports share one Alpine Ridge controller? The bottom of the range model has 2 full speed ports but 4 PCIe lanes seem to be going to waste on the base model.
Dare we mention marketing segmentation? To differentiate the base Macbook Pro 13" from the other two models? Logically we should have had 3 across the board but instead we get 4 ports fed by 3 controllers on the the top two models, and 2 ports shared by 2 controllers on the base model.
This is all subject to what the inevitable teardown will reveal, of course.
And finally, was it too soon to introduce the Kaby Lake 12" Macbook? It had the most logical update possible and the CPU was available - are they waiting for the rest of the range to go Kaby Lake?
This does't sound like the first time that Apple has shared ports with controllers. The Mac Pro's 6 Thunderbolt 2 ports are fed by 3 Falcon Ridge Thunderbolt Controllers - shouldn't this have been mentioned as sharing bandwidth too?
One pertinent point here is to ask why the base Macbook pro 13" with the i5-6360U CPU has just 2 Thunderbolt 3/USB-C ports.
That CPU also has 12 PCIe lanes, similar to the i5-6267U which is in use in the middle and top models with the Touch bar. The mobile Kaby Lake CPUs that have been released so far also have 12 PCIe lanes so I wouldn't expect anything different next year.
Given that there's 12 PCIe lanes available shouldn't they have used 3 Thunderbolt 3/USB-C ports across the 13" range rather than having 2 of the ports share one Alpine Ridge controller? The bottom of the range model has 2 full speed ports but 4 PCIe lanes seem to be going to waste on the base model.
Dare we mention marketing segmentation? To differentiate the base Macbook Pro 13" from the other two models? Logically we should have had 3 across the board but instead we get 4 ports fed by 3 controllers on the the top two models, and 2 ports shared by 2 controllers on the base model.
This is all subject to what the inevitable teardown will reveal, of course.
And finally, was it too soon to introduce the Kaby Lake 12" Macbook? It had the most logical update possible and the CPU was available - are they waiting for the rest of the range to go Kaby Lake?
I mostly agree with what you have said. I personally think these new MacBooks look amazing and promise fantastic, forward-thinking new functionality opportunities with the new Touchbar.
Although I would prefer a glowing Apple on the back, it isn't something to weep over.
Minor differences between left and right data rates? Non issue.
More dongles needed? In a year we won't care. The MacBooks are meant to be portable and light. This is part of the game now.
Only real issue I have is the price: a $400 hike over the previous 3 year-old gen is a cash-grab and we all know it. That isn't how you treat loyal customers. Most of us take this as the insult to our intelligence that it is. Had it been a $100 hike, few would have complained.
But yeah, the forums here have grown negative out of proportionality.
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I suspect Steve would have been the first to suggest the price hike here. He was no benevolent salesman where the premium was concerned.
The new MacBooks are an innovative design. We just don't (rightly) like the price.
But I am in the same boat on the Surface Studio. MS made something very interesting there. It is a niche product, but someday that $3000 entry price will drop. Once they get it under $2000, it will be an iMac killer.
a normal user would be confuse from the title alone.
A advanced user would be baffled to put up with limitations but they would be smarter..or not to spend on a 15 inch.
Still, both normal and advanced users would know, going to need to purchase tons of 30 dollar adapters for the things needed...ridiculous apple, ridiculous.
As if you are charging 3k for a 1.8tflop gpu is bad enough
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You are just use to taking it from behind i guess.
it takes no genius and even apple fans to know this and buying a bunch of 30 dollar adapters is waste
A advanced user would be baffled to put up with limitations but they would be smarter..or not to spend on a 15 inch.
Still, both normal and advanced users would know, going to need to purchase tons of 30 dollar adapters for the things needed...ridiculous apple, ridiculous.
As if you are charging 3k for a 1.8tflop gpu is bad enough
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Heh, the whining is almost comical at this point. Of course I'll be called a McPologist!
This is nothing new anyway, the previous smaller MacBooks (Airs, etc) had reduced Thunderbolt functionality over the larger pros. The cylinder Mac Pro doesn't have Thunderbolt 2 on all 6 ports, it divides 3 TB buses among them. So, the 13" MacBook Pros probably only have 1 thunderbolt 3 bus instead of 2 on the 15", or some other lesser vs. greater combination (not sure how the TB 3 hardware support works). You should've been complaining about this for years as it's been that way since Thunderbolt was introduced on the smaller devices vs. the larger.
You are just use to taking it from behind i guess.
it takes no genius and even apple fans to know this and buying a bunch of 30 dollar adapters is waste