The practical difference between macOS and iOS is pretty darn small. Getting parity would not take that much, just this so-called “UXKit”. They just have to add some small enhancements to iOS. I could see windowing working in a touch environment, as long as the device was plugged in. But the enhanced features for iOS would probably only be for the Pro models, because most iOS users have no need for those kind of extras, so the phones and regular iPads would still be the standard simplified system.
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Tim Cook Insists Merging Mac and iPad Would Result in Compromises
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That's why that girl asked what a computer was in the commercial. She'd never seen a real one before.
I kind of agree with Tim lol. I like that Mac OS is one thing and iOS is another thing. I use them ion two very different ways. Mac Os and iOS both have their places.
Look at the Surface/Windows 8 that some would call a "debacle". Microsoft tried to merge a mobile system and a desktop system (and don't for get the even crazier Windows 8 RT). From what I can gather most people hated Windows 8. The end result was arguably pretty terrible. I think Microsoft's compromise with Windows 10 was a step back into the right direction. I still can't figure out if the Surface is a better lap top or a tablet, because it does both pretty terribly. Only thing I could see Apple maybe doing one day is adding touch screen to the Mac, but only maybe time will tell. This is just my opinion and anyone can feel free to disagree with me if they love their Surface or even liked Windows 8.
Look at the Surface/Windows 8 that some would call a "debacle". Microsoft tried to merge a mobile system and a desktop system (and don't for get the even crazier Windows 8 RT). From what I can gather most people hated Windows 8. The end result was arguably pretty terrible. I think Microsoft's compromise with Windows 10 was a step back into the right direction. I still can't figure out if the Surface is a better lap top or a tablet, because it does both pretty terribly. Only thing I could see Apple maybe doing one day is adding touch screen to the Mac, but only maybe time will tell. This is just my opinion and anyone can feel free to disagree with me if they love their Surface or even liked Windows 8.
Disclaimer: I haven't read the whole thread.
(1) Let's go the other direction. Suppose they were already merged -- would he split them?
(2) Tim is focusing on the downside -- but how about the upside ?
What would iOS (or macOS) look like with twice the number of engineers working on it ?
Because that's what we're talking about.
(3) Any product (including Mac, iPad, and iPhone) is a compromise, because users have different requirements. Is there a clear dividing line between iPad users and Mac users ? I don't think so. And if I understand the discussion about "Is the iPad a computer?", then Apple doesn't think so either.
(1) Let's go the other direction. Suppose they were already merged -- would he split them?
(2) Tim is focusing on the downside -- but how about the upside ?
What would iOS (or macOS) look like with twice the number of engineers working on it ?
Because that's what we're talking about.
(3) Any product (including Mac, iPad, and iPhone) is a compromise, because users have different requirements. Is there a clear dividing line between iPad users and Mac users ? I don't think so. And if I understand the discussion about "Is the iPad a computer?", then Apple doesn't think so either.
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I believe he would advocate for whichever makes more sense for the company and its users.
If the two systems were merged and it was clear the market was headed in the other direction, he would have them separated.
As it stands, Microsoft’s own devices haven’t been selling all that well either. I don’t think it’s clear at all that the future is a single unified OS across all devices. If anything, Microsoft is doing this because they are a software company and this is the most expedient and convenient solution for them, not necessarily because they believe it’s what is best for their users.
You would still have to work on customising the OS for the different devices. I don’t think it would save Apple all that much work.
CEO’s always talk half truths.
The whole truth is that a touchMac convert could either be a disruptive success (cannibalizing Mac, iPad or both), a failure, or anything in-between.
Contrary to what it once was, Apple has become a moloch mass-provisioner that doesn’t want to disturb its current business. So Tim’s talking his way into the easiest route.
The resources argument is a non-argument - they could buy complete computer companies and make them Mac assemblers and hardly see it on their balance sheets.
Especially Apple should be able to launch a stripped-down convert and cripple it so much, that it doesn’t cannibalize Mac or iPad sales, but hey...why innovate if you can refurb (citing “the mass wants” etc.) ?
This strategic lamentation is why many here at MR are yearning for some new, inspirational leadership.
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Quicktime is a framework for codecs. Front Row and Windows Media Center are interfaces.
I know what Quicktime is, have 30 years of Macs in storage
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If it computes, it's a computer
Imagine how fat the screen would be and how bulky the macbook would become. We've seen a plenty of these 2-in-1 hybrids and in real life they just suck. Not a good idea, period.
The hinge with a "docking" connector for the detachable screen is also a stpry of its own. Brings more problems than usefulness. Believe me, I've dealt with waaaaay to many broken ThinkPad Helix, Asus Transformers and other convertibles to see any good coming from fckin up another apple product.
As a professional designer who has replaced her Mac and iPad with a surface pro, I disagree. Hybrids are actually a great idea. Wacom Cintiqs are a great idea. Being able to draw directly on the screen using full desktop apps is an absolutely great idea. Designers need this ability, and the windows hybrid market is filling the needs of designers better than the Mac market right now. iPads in their current iterations do not cut it for most types of end to end design work.
Admittedly the last two are somewhat subjective particularly usability, but you're saying stability and security are hallmarks of Windows and Android?
[doublepost=1524305197][/doublepost]
Welcome to the forum.
My wife's Asus-something-Flip, 13", aluminum body, doesn't feel bulky at all, and is little LIGHTER than 9.7" iPad Pro with a backlit keyboard and a pencil. She mostly never carries an iPad - less screen estate, a bit more weight, artificially limited functionality.
To all the people repeating "What is a computer" mantras and posting links to generously all-encompassing definitions of "a computer".
I hope you understand, that according to these definitions, most digital photo cameras, security cameras, cheapest routers, even most modern network adapters by themselves are computers - they are definitely programmable blah-blah-blah-etc.
I sincerely wish you all were forced to use the very-very best high-end photo cameras as your only computers. At least for a couple of months. To feel the hypocrisy of all this "post-PC" BS.
If something you own is not programmable BY YOU, if your interfaces (from physical ones to APIs) to the thing are strictly limited, if the choice of the software you can run on it and it's permitted functionality belongs not to you, but to the vendor - don't call it a computer, at least YOUR computer. A specialized device built upon some computer platform, probably.
[doublepost=1524310908][/doublepost]And about the Saint Jobs.
Seems everyone has forgotten who told you: "You are holding it wrong!" as an excuse for his impressive screw-up which cost you your money.
He was a brilliant PR specialist, way brighter than Tim.
His choice to build mobile gadgets with capacitative screens and touch-and-gesture based interfaces was, probably, the best possible.
He was willing to take serious business risks to popularize his ideas. But were all of those ideas as good as his interface choice?
It was Steve, who was forcing down our throats the idea, that we don't need the very paradigm of a file. It was Steve, thanks to whom iOS users are still extremely limited in how they store their data, how they transfer it and what are they allowed to transfer and to whom. A sinkholes of iTunes and iBooks, where you can put anything but not get it back are Steve's vision. The artificially ignored bluetooth file transfer capabilities - his. iOS is still lagging behind Android in usability and it takes iOS users literally years and a lot of pleading to get some things Android users have. And only partially.
His analogy of trucks vs cars is plain false.
What he offered you were public buses, where you can not choose the route and you own nothing. The beautiful world of access terminals instead of computers and of clouds where your data is managed by someone else.
My dear Soviet Union, where you had crazy cheap public transport (even flights!), albeit a bit messy. (Everyone has a smartphone with a limited choice of software and most data in the clouds). Private cars which were not easy to buy even if you had money - you had to wait in queues and they were considered sort of a luxury despite their generally crappy quality. (Consumer PCs are fading out of the market and will become less available - lower quality - etc. Want an affordable laptop - get your Chromebook, LOL!). And trucks and tractors which were for organizations only. (Wanna a computer with all the functions you need and no one spying on your data? FU very soon)))
A sane and law abiding citizen doesn't really need to: have a truck, drive a car himself, add RAM or hard drive, be able to repair something, transfer files, choose a software, read ARP tables, scan wireless networks, manage own data - you can add more. Those things are for licensed specialists only. You are dumb and we know better. And we will do our best to make you even dumber. It's easier to get your money then. For your own good. Don't think, it's easy. Those people who want to drive cars themselves and to control their computers are ridiculous Luddites and stinky geeks, no-lifers, they are fighting against our fantastic nice-and-easy-to-live future. Enjoy it! What is a computer, really?
I hope you understand, that according to these definitions, most digital photo cameras, security cameras, cheapest routers, even most modern network adapters by themselves are computers - they are definitely programmable blah-blah-blah-etc.
I sincerely wish you all were forced to use the very-very best high-end photo cameras as your only computers. At least for a couple of months. To feel the hypocrisy of all this "post-PC" BS.
If something you own is not programmable BY YOU, if your interfaces (from physical ones to APIs) to the thing are strictly limited, if the choice of the software you can run on it and it's permitted functionality belongs not to you, but to the vendor - don't call it a computer, at least YOUR computer. A specialized device built upon some computer platform, probably.
[doublepost=1524310908][/doublepost]And about the Saint Jobs.
Seems everyone has forgotten who told you: "You are holding it wrong!" as an excuse for his impressive screw-up which cost you your money.
He was a brilliant PR specialist, way brighter than Tim.
His choice to build mobile gadgets with capacitative screens and touch-and-gesture based interfaces was, probably, the best possible.
He was willing to take serious business risks to popularize his ideas. But were all of those ideas as good as his interface choice?
It was Steve, who was forcing down our throats the idea, that we don't need the very paradigm of a file. It was Steve, thanks to whom iOS users are still extremely limited in how they store their data, how they transfer it and what are they allowed to transfer and to whom. A sinkholes of iTunes and iBooks, where you can put anything but not get it back are Steve's vision. The artificially ignored bluetooth file transfer capabilities - his. iOS is still lagging behind Android in usability and it takes iOS users literally years and a lot of pleading to get some things Android users have. And only partially.
His analogy of trucks vs cars is plain false.
What he offered you were public buses, where you can not choose the route and you own nothing. The beautiful world of access terminals instead of computers and of clouds where your data is managed by someone else.
My dear Soviet Union, where you had crazy cheap public transport (even flights!), albeit a bit messy. (Everyone has a smartphone with a limited choice of software and most data in the clouds). Private cars which were not easy to buy even if you had money - you had to wait in queues and they were considered sort of a luxury despite their generally crappy quality. (Consumer PCs are fading out of the market and will become less available - lower quality - etc. Want an affordable laptop - get your Chromebook, LOL!). And trucks and tractors which were for organizations only. (Wanna a computer with all the functions you need and no one spying on your data? FU very soon)))
A sane and law abiding citizen doesn't really need to: have a truck, drive a car himself, add RAM or hard drive, be able to repair something, transfer files, choose a software, read ARP tables, scan wireless networks, manage own data - you can add more. Those things are for licensed specialists only. You are dumb and we know better. And we will do our best to make you even dumber. It's easier to get your money then. For your own good. Don't think, it's easy. Those people who want to drive cars themselves and to control their computers are ridiculous Luddites and stinky geeks, no-lifers, they are fighting against our fantastic nice-and-easy-to-live future. Enjoy it! What is a computer, really?
It’s really just a laptop though. As a tablet, it’s pretty crappy. I think most people would agree with that. There’s cheap windows laptops that do the same thing.
The bar is so high here at MacRumors, apple should just shut it's doors. But in case they don't, the current leadership is doing quite well.
"I use everything and I love everything."
I hope that doesn't includes windows Tim
[doublepost=1524321082][/doublepost]
it uses windows
I hope that doesn't includes windows Tim
[doublepost=1524321082][/doublepost]
3 words
it uses windows
I think it's good they don't merge them. I'd rather they each have their own strengths and Apple builds on those independently.
Right now I need to use macOS because I need the available tools and software to do my job, among other things I'm involved in. However, iOS is getting better and when I retire, I can see the need for only a tablet and phone. It will be perfect for traveling light and still have acceptable functionality.
Right now I need to use macOS because I need the available tools and software to do my job, among other things I'm involved in. However, iOS is getting better and when I retire, I can see the need for only a tablet and phone. It will be perfect for traveling light and still have acceptable functionality.
If that is all most people do, why the hell are they wasting $1500+ on a Mac. Hell they could get a reasonable windows machine for less than an iPad and it wouldn't be cripple by a new OS release too.
Could it be to look cool. oh wait us old farts got moaned at 10 years ago for saying that.
"I use everything and I love everything."
I hope that doesn't includes windows Tim
[doublepost=1524321082][/doublepost]
3 words
it uses windows
12 words: Ability to draw directly on the screen while using full desktop apps!
The OS that runs the apps is far less important than the apps themselves. And for all it’s quirks, Win 10 really is decent, and hybrids, for all their compromises, are definitely better than the Mac alternatives right now, for design work at least. I would still be using my retina MacBook Pro if it were a better design machine, but it isn’t any more. After using design apps on the surface pro, you really notice how restrictive a non-touchscreen laptop feels. Hence the need for Wacom drawing tablets and workaround apps like air display if you are using design apps on a Mac.
Plus, it is so liberating to travel with only my surface pro and pen when I used to travel with my 13” retina MacBook Pro, Wacom tablet, iPad and Adonit stylus.
I would snatch up a pen-enabled touchscreen Mac in an instant, if ever such a beast came out, regardless of its compromises. It is indeed useful, and possible, to have a really great design machine in hybrid format. I am absolutely positive Apple could do it well.
Also, I agree with previous posters who praised the kickstands and hinges on these hybrids and think all tablets should have them built in. To make the thin and beautiful iPad as useful, you have to put a bulky case with a stand on it, hiding the thinness and beauty. No need for that on the Surface. It is a gorgeous machine, thin and light and also very, very useful. Well done, Microsoft. Apple, get your ass in gear and do it better.
ETA: I am impressed at how visionary Microsoft is lately and how they are listening to designers and actively soliciting input. They are going hard after this type of pro user. Can you imagine how great Apple would be if they did the same thing? How cool would an Apple version of the Surface Studio be?!? Instead, Apple has been steadily leaving pro designers behind.
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I’m not talking about tablet mode. I’m talking about why I have three or four different windows for network settings... some are the tablet UI and some are the classic windows style. That’s the whole problem with Windows 10 now, the UI is a mess.
Windows 7 is what I want, it was perfect.... but sadly Microsoft decide to not put latest api support for it.
"I use everything and I love everything."
I hope that doesn't includes windows Tim
[doublepost=1524321082][/doublepost]
3 words
it uses windows
Yes we all know that but it proves a point. You can merge a laptop and tablet to make a compelling hybrid product.
ok I respect your opinion and taste but if you go back in time
when Microsoft os was windows 8.1 before windows 10
then you look at Mac OS you will see that Microsoft stole "borrow" just about from Mac OS
when they created windows 10
Mac OS had those features before windows 10
the only reason why windows is a little bit "decent" now is because all the stolen features they added from Mac OS
is along list but they even copied apple keynotes and presentation
on top of that Microsoft only created software for other companies
Toshiba, dell, hp, etc etc etc
but Microsoft created the surface pro and the other one that I don't even remember the name right now
yes they might be good but I personally don't like them even if they are considered a better product
simply because they run windows
I accept that apple under Tim is not the same, I personally can't wait for Tim to go
nothing personal, I just don't like the way he is doing things
let me give you an example
last Mac Mac Pro in year 2013
ok back to the topic
look at windows 8 then look at windows 10 and you will see everything that windows 10 have that windows 8 didn't have, why because they didn't came out with the idea out of thin air
Mac OS dark menu = windows 10 dark theme
there are so many that I don't even want to write them all
but I give one last example
3 days after Mac OS added night shift to Mac OS
Microsoft released a similar feature for windows 10, night light I wonder where they got the idea from
to be fair I understand that some companies copy one from another
until certain point I think is fair but when one company all it does is copy the other one almost completely
then that is a problem, at least I want to be unique and not like the orders
I have dignity but Microsoft doesn't have dignity
I will be embarrassed knowing that I have to copy in order to be relevant
because I can't come up with any new idea on my own
anyway I don't have a problem if you like windows or Microsoft products
but the true is that windows 10 was build on stolen Mac OS features
just click on Mac OS notifications on the top corner next to the search icon
then click on windows 10 control center and tell me if the screen size doesn't even look the same size
windows is good for gaming, I give you that much
but I really hate a desktop system that has tablet services and components when all I have is a desktop system
bloatware, unnecessary tablet services on a desktop os
hogging system resources etc
the last true windows was windows 7
anyway cheers
[doublepost=1524355182][/doublepost]
exactly because they technically have 2 different os in windows
tablet mode and desktop os
I persoanlly hate the merged os that started on windows 8
yes you can have them to interact with each other
like Mac OS and iOS , continuity etc but is better to have tablets and desktop using it's own os
in this case Mac OS and iOS and now that I remember
Mac OS had continuity first then Microsoft came with continuum
I really don't understand how can that be see as visionary
a bunch of unnecessary tablet services running on a desktop computer
I'm sure if they removed all that crap windows can run much faster
and don't get me started on the forced updates
at least Mac OS tell me when an update is available and I decide when to download and install
but windows can be updating on the back without you even knowing until you restart your pc
windows is installing updates please wait
lol
keep waiting
go drink something and comeback later
update failed rolling back
anniversary update bug
the best windows ever
yes you can disable automatic update and do a bunch of tweaks but the average user will have a hard time
anyway to each it's own
peace
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I wonder if the iOS Simulator (or something like it) might be released as part of Mac OS. That would allow iOS app writers to optionally target the Simulator and sell their apps on Mac OS.