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No but showing how the slippery slope starts.
If the dreamers get deported then who is next? and after that?

Nope - nope nope == Countries across the globe deport illegal immigrants every day. Are you saying sovereign nations do not have the right to deport illegal entrants or even legal residents who have broken the terms of their status?

please elaborate and don't rely on emotional statements not grounded in fact.
 
I hate how CEO's feel the need to speak out about politics. Just stick to making good products, it's not like you don't have offices in other countries.

He was specifically talking about his employees. He most certainly has a right to speak about that.
 
Are you serious? Like do you honestly not have a clue about world history or something? There is a distinct difference between moving into an unsettled & ungoverned land and sneaking into an established country with laws and government.
"Unsettled"? The Native Americans who had been here for a thousand years didn't exist? Every single person who isn't a Native American was "sneaking into" the continent - the only argument against current immigrants is they arrived after you or your previous generations did. And here we are arguing about a bunch of people who were brought here by their parents when they were children or toddlers. Didn't realize that toddlers could be busy sneaking into to different countries without proper visas. And while you are at it, better deport Superman back to Krypton - he snuck in as kid too.
 
Great Tim , 250 jobs LEGAL Americans can't have !!
Every job an illegal alien takes is a a job an American can't have !!
 
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The land wasn't unsettled. It belonged to the natives. You act like America was this empty peice of land. There were native people of the land and they were governed by tribes.

There was no sovereign nations. The tribes didn't govern the land together -- they fought against each other. It was wilderness - no roads, no schools, no infrastructure. The land was largely empty an uninhabited. North America was essentially empty as the most reliable documentation had the native American population in North America at about 2.5 - 7 million at 1550. That is 7 million people for the land Mass that includes the US and Canada. There are 325 million people in the US alone today and it is largely empty.

Your argument is simply not held up by the facts.
 
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Actually the guy said nothing about employment. Rather he brought up the need for immigrants to be naturalized. Nice try though.

Your statement assumes - without providing proof - that employment is a zero-sum game. You're also assuming that these Dreamers don't want to be naturalized, which I believe is untrue - the obstacles are on the US side.

Currently the country is just about at what is considered by economists to be "full employment". While there are certainly some people who will fall through the cracks, most of the folks who currently can't find work just have a skill set which isn't in demand. The reason coal miners are unemployed, for example, is not because their jobs have been stolen by illegal immigrants... it's because there's little demand for coal miners now.

We are no where near full employment. Far too many are on welfare. Then you need to consider all the people that have withdrawn from the job market due to the lack of opportunity. Beyond that one of the biggest problems with the influx of migrants from the south is that they drive down wages, often working illegally and they don't pay taxes. It is a massive problem resulting in a significant tax burden on working people.

This doesn't even address the crime problem associated with illegal immigration. In a nut shell you need to open your eyes.
 
"Unsettled"? The Native Americans who had been here for a thousand years didn't exist? Every single person who isn't a Native American was "sneaking into" the continent - the only argument against current immigrants is they arrived after you or your previous generations did. And here we are arguing about a bunch of people who were brought here by their parents when they were children or toddlers. Didn't realize that toddlers could be busy sneaking into to different countries without proper visas. And while you are at it, better deport Superman back to Krypton - he snuck in as kid too.


Again nonsense. The Indians were not a single group of people that were born in the Americas. Fact - they were made up people who migrated into the Americas in over 50 different and separate migrations. They were not a single race or group of indigenous.

Fact - Europeans were just another migratory group. Ethnically different than the indians but migrants nonetheless.

Fact - there was no unified government or country -- it was largely wilderness. Per my previous post the land constituting what is now the US and Canada had a population on best records and estimates at less than 10 million. The land was largely empty by any standards.

Fact - there was a conflict between Europeans and the indigenous. Agreed. Whether that is correct or moral or not is irrelevant. The Indians lost. Plain and simple. But after that there was a nation established in law. Just because the Indians lost and the bad Europeans won DOES NOT mean the US cannot determine who can or cannot enter its territory.
Otherwise you argument is delegitimizing the very existence of the US. And as an American -- if that is your point --- go pound sand.

Fact - What happened with the Native Americans is irrelevant today. We have a nation - with borders and laws. Illegal Immigrants have no moral or legal claim to stat. Even legal immigration is not a right.

Fact - Every single nation including those in Europe, South America, Asia, and India was formed out of conflict. There was winners and losers.
 
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Comments like this boogies the mind! How is enforcing rational law a slippery slope? The fact is there are perfectly legal ways for anybody in the world to emigrate to the USA. What most of us want to see is an end to the tolerance of illegals.

No but showing how the slippery slope starts.
If the dreamers get deported then who is next? and after that?

Well that is simple, you ship ALL illegals back home! It is pretty simple really. Yes simple, it doesn't require rocket science to understand.

Remember this is all about illegal immigration. There is no need to stop legal immigration.
 
Well than explain it because you aren't good at communicating the "irony".

The law is the law. Simple -- no irony.
.

And who created those laws? Native Americans?

Just a hunch here, I bet you don't have a passport.
 
There was no sovereign nations. The tribes didn't govern the land together -- they fought against each other. It was wilderness - no roads, no schools, no infrastructure. The land was largely empty an uninhabited. North America was essentially empty as the most reliable documentation had the native American population in North America at about 2.5 - 7 million at 1550. That is 7 million people for the land Mass that includes the US and Canada. There are 325 million people in the US alone today and it is largely empty.

Your argument is simply not held up by the facts.

What the natives were doing was their business. Doesn't mean you can go and take land away from them, kill them, give them diseases and attempt to enslave them.

So because a place has many wilderness parts it's OK to take the land and kill the people?

A vast amount of Canada is uninhabited, shall we take their land as well?
 
So Apple is willing to go to bat for 250 employees. At what group size does snowflake status expire? 5 employees? 10?

It can be any size to be ignored if they don't agree with Tim's policies. The left likes to shut people up who don't agree with them and who support the rule of law. Not whim.
 
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Here is an overview of Mexican immigration law. For all of those people calling us mean and hateful. Maybe we should make US immigration law just like Mexico. Then no one will complain.

Link == https://factreal.wordpress.com/2010...-states-mexican-immigration-laws-are-tougher/
Link to Mexican Constitution --- https://factreal.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/mexicoconstitution2008.pdf

Mexico welcomes only foreigners who will be useful to Mexican society:
– Foreigners are admitted into Mexico “according to their possibilities of contributing to national progress.” (Article 32)
– Immigration officials must “ensure” that “immigrants will be useful elements for the country and that they have the necessary funds for their sustenance” and for their dependents. (Article 34)
– Foreigners may be barred from the country if their presence upsets “the equilibrium of the national demographics,” when foreigners are deemed detrimental to “economic or national interests,” when they do not behave like good citizens in their own country, when they have broken Mexican laws, and when “they are not found to be physically or mentally healthy.” (Article 37)
– The Secretary of Governance may “suspend or prohibit the admission of foreigners when he determines it to be in the national interest.” (Article 38)

Mexican authorities must keep track of every single person in the country:
– Federal, local and municipal police must cooperate with federal immigration authorities upon request, i.e., to assist in the arrests of illegal immigrants. (Article 73)
– A National Population Registry keeps track of “every single individual who comprises the population of the country,” and verifies each individual’s identity. (Articles 85 and 86)
– A national Catalog of Foreigners tracks foreign tourists and immigrants (Article 87), and assigns each individual with a unique tracking number (Article 91).

Foreigners with fake papers, or who enter the country under false pretenses, may be imprisoned:
– Foreigners with fake immigration papers may be fined or imprisoned. (Article 116)
– Foreigners who sign government documents “with a signature that is false or different from that which he normally uses” are subject to fine and imprisonment. (Article 116)

Foreigners who fail to obey the rules will be fined, deported, and/or imprisoned as felons:
– Foreigners who fail to obey a deportation order are to be punished. (Article 117)
– Foreigners who are deported from Mexico and attempt to re-enter the country without authorization can be imprisoned for up to 10 years. (Article 118)
– Foreigners who violate the terms of their visa may be sentenced to up to six years in prison (Articles 119, 120 and 121). Foreigners who misrepresent the terms of their visa while in Mexico — such as working with out a permit — can also be imprisoned.

Under Mexican law, illegal immigration is a felony. The General Law on Population says,
– “A penalty of up to two years in prison and a fine of three hundred to five thousand pesos will be imposed on the foreigner who enters the country illegally.” (Article 123)
– Foreigners with legal immigration problems may be deported from Mexico instead of being imprisoned. (Article 125)
– Foreigners who “attempt against national sovereignty or security” will be deported. (Article 126)

Mexicans who help illegal aliens enter the country are themselves considered criminals under the law:
– A Mexican who marries a foreigner with the sole objective of helping the foreigner live in the country is subject to up to five years in prison. (Article 127)
– Shipping and airline companies that bring undocumented foreigners into Mexico will be fined. (Article 132)


The Mexican constitution expressly forbids non-citizens to participate in the country’s political life.
Non-citizens are forbidden to participate in demonstrations or express opinions in public about domestic politics. Article 9 states, “only citizens of the Republic may do so to take part in the political affairs of the country.” Article 33 is unambiguous: “Foreigners may not in any way participate in the political affairs of the country.”

The Mexican constitution denies fundamental property rights to foreigners.
If foreigners wish to have certain property rights, they must renounce the protection of their own governments or risk confiscation. Foreigners are forbidden to own land in Mexico within 100 kilometers of land borders or within 50 kilometers of the coast.

Article 27 states, “Only Mexicans by birth or naturalization and Mexican companies have the right to acquire ownership of lands, waters, and their appurtenances, or to obtain concessions for the exploitation of mines or of waters. The State may grant the same right to foreigners, provided they agree before the Ministry of Foreign Relations to consider themselves as nationals in respect to such property, and bind themselves not to invoke the protection of their governments in matters relating thereto; under penalty, in case of noncompliance with this agreement, of forfeiture of the property acquired to the Nation. Under no circumstances may foreigners acquire direct ownership of lands or waters within a zone of one hundred kilometers along the frontiers and of fifty kilometers along the shores of the country.” (Emphasis added)


The Mexican constitution denies equal employment rights to immigrants, even legal
ones, in the public sector.



“Mexicans shall have priority over foreigners under equality of circumstances for all classes of concessions and for all employment, positions, or commissions of the Government in which the status of citizenship is not indispensable. In time of peace no foreigner can serve in the Army nor in the police or public security forces.” (Article 32)

The Mexican constitution guarantees that immigrants will never be treated as real Mexican citizens, even if they are legally naturalized.
Article 32 bans foreigners, immigrants, and even naturalized citizens of Mexico from serving as military officers, Mexican-flagged ship and airline crew, and chiefs of seaports and airports:

“In order to belong to the National Navy or the Air Force, and to discharge any office or commission, it is required to be a Mexican by birth. This same status is indispensable for captains, pilots, masters, engineers, mechanics, and in general, for all personnel of the crew of any vessel or airship protected by the Mexican merchant flag or insignia. It is also necessary to be Mexican by birth to discharge the position of captain of the port and all services of practique and airport commandant, as well as all functions of customs agent in the Republic.”
 
I'll say this right at the onset: Tim Cook needs to give his left liberal political pandering since November 2016 a bloody effing break. I'm an immigrant from India myself, I currently work for Apple from Germany, I have family in the USA, and before Tim blindly starts defending Dreamers, he needs to read this: https://cis.org/Mortensen/DACA-Gran...mitting-Crimes-While-Abandoning-Their-Victims.

I support some of President Trump's policies and I believe that DACA should be reformulated from the ground up instead of being nullified.

Having said that, Tim Cook of late hasn't ceased downright disgusting me. We get it that Tim is a die-hard Hillary Clinton fan but he just can't seem to be able to keep his head out of politics.

KKK, Nazis, white supremacsists are vile, demented creatures—there's no defending ANYTHING they stand for. But where are Cook's Twitter condemnations and fundraising against rabidly hateful and intolerant leftist groups like Antifa, who (quite literally!) burn down every single free speech rally at college campuses without a single consequence?

What happens to his voice when Islamists openly urge for a Jewish genocide in America in the name of "freeing Palestine"?!

Where is this coward when cop-killing BLM groups conduct riots, vandalize local businesses, loot, destroy for months in a row during the 2-term presidency of a black man!?

In which hole in the ground does Tim Cook hide when rabid feminists take the stage—physically or on mainstream media—and demand the systematic suffering of men, especially white males in America?

As a brown man that has seen plenty of these pseudoliberals in my own country, there's nothing worse than a duplicitous, hypocritical COWARD with connections to influence, and tons of cash to spend toward their own agenda.

Tim, take your private jet and come see the state of Germany after it took in 3 million undocumented immigrants. Roam around Düsseldorf for a while, then take a flight to Paris and then drop in at Rome after that. Maybe what you will witness will help you SHUT your mouth and have you consider focusing on your goddam job again.

This is depressingly non-factual conjecture. The link you reference isn't statistically meaningful. It contains no statistics at all. It's simply vagueries wrapped in language intended to make it sound like an official study. Posting it is intellectually dishonest. But you know that. How cheap.

I'm not going to dissect your ill-formed rant. But it's important to correct you when you call those coming into Europe "illegal immigrants." Millions of those people are refugees. To call them illegal immigrants is a cynical ploy to dehumanize them. But that's the modern conservative playbook at work.

Perhaps most disturbing is over 100 people on MacRumors don't have the ability to recognize when they're being played for cheap emotional rubes.
 
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For sure I feel bad for these young people being dragged to America by their parents and having to live the life of an illegal immigrant but that's life.
Your country forced you to go back to another country you haven’t seen since you were a kid to find a new life in what may be far worse circumstances than those in the U.S., but…that’s life?

That’s seriously your argument?
[doublepost=1504535508][/doublepost]
Actually 2 million according to macrumors, and this DACA change would effect exactly 0.01% of those employees. You're literally proving my point.
Apple does not employ 2 million people anywhere. Indirectly by counting suppliers and developers, maybe, but the real number of people hired directly by Apple is on the order of 100,000.
 
Actually it is the right thing to do as it sends a strong message to illegal immigrants that your kids wont get you special treatment.

Beyond that this is mostly about under age illegals that travel to this country on their own. Obama was directly responsible for encouraging these kids to leave their families to come to the USA. It was a rather pathetic attempt to get more votes from illegals.

if Trump gets his way yeah 'you' can. frankly I side with Tim on this. It's one thing if you are talking about adults who willingly and knowingly broke the law, but many of these 'dreamers' were brought here against their choice as young kids. is it morally fair to punish them for something they had little to no knowledge of. many of them might even have believed they were legal residents.
 
What the natives were doing was their business. Doesn't mean you can go and take land away from them, kill them, give them diseases and attempt to enslave them.

So because a place has many wilderness parts it's OK to take the land and kill the people?

A vast amount of Canada is uninhabited, shall we take their land as well?

You miss my point. The fact is the indians didn't control this land --- if they did they wouldn't have lost it. You have this misguided and illformed notion that just because the Europeans conquered the indians centuries ago (before the US was created btw) that we cannot control our borders or have sovereignty. ********. What country are you from?

Are you upset or indignant that the indians who were there at the time of Columbus killed and conquered the indian tribes that came before them? Oh thats right - - what the Indians were doing was there business. Well in an empty country --- what the Europeans were doing was their own business --- right?

it doesn't matter if it was wrong or right. That battle happened 400 years ago and they lost. Doesn't change the fact that the US is a nation, recognized in the world and has borders and sovereign power. We can decide who stays or goes. And it is legally correct and morally right.

The indian argument is a non-sequitur used by the left to circumvent US sovereignty. Mexico took the Yucatan peninsula from Guatemala -- should they give it back? Should Australians pack up an move back to the UK?
[doublepost=1504535629][/doublepost]
Your country forced you to go back to another country you haven’t seen since you were a kid to find a new life in what may be far worse circumstances than those in the U.S., but…that’s life?

That’s seriously your argument?
[doublepost=1504535508][/doublepost]
Apple does not employ 2 million people anywhere. Indirectly by counting suppliers and developers, maybe, but the real number of people hired directly by Apple is on the order of 100,000.


Well their parents should have shown better judgement. Just because their parents broke our laws -- does that mean we have to take the consequences of that? Sounds like theft to me.
 
I'll say this right at the onset: Tim Cook needs to give his left liberal political pandering since November 2016 a bloody effing break. I'm an immigrant from India myself, I currently work for Apple from Germany, I have family in the USA, and before Tim blindly starts defending Dreamers, he needs to read this: https://cis.org/Mortensen/DACA-Gran...mitting-Crimes-While-Abandoning-Their-Victims.

I support some of President Trump's policies and I believe that DACA should be reformulated from the ground up instead of being nullified.

Having said that, Tim Cook of late hasn't ceased downright disgusting me. We get it that Tim is a die-hard Hillary Clinton fan but he just can't seem to be able to keep his head out of politics.

KKK, Nazis, white supremacsists are vile, demented creatures—there's no defending ANYTHING they stand for. But where are Cook's Twitter condemnations and fundraising against rabidly hateful and intolerant leftist groups like Antifa, who (quite literally!) burn down every single free speech rally at college campuses without a single consequence?

What happens to his voice when Islamists openly urge for a Jewish genocide in America in the name of "freeing Palestine"?!

Where is this coward when cop-killing BLM groups conduct riots, vandalize local businesses, loot, destroy for months in a row during the 2-term presidency of a black man!?

In which hole in the ground does Tim Cook hide when rabid feminists take the stage—physically or on mainstream media—and demand the systematic suffering of men, especially white males in America?

As a brown man that has seen plenty of these pseudoliberals in my own country, there's nothing worse than a duplicitous, hypocritical COWARD with connections to influence, and tons of cash to spend toward their own agenda.

Tim, take your private jet and come see the state of Germany after it took in 3 million undocumented immigrants. Roam around Düsseldorf for a while, then take a flight to Paris and then drop in at Rome after that. Maybe what you will witness will help you SHUT your mouth and have you consider focusing on your goddam job again.

Feel free to take your business elsewhere, you won't be missed.
 
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"Unsettled"? The Native Americans who had been here for a thousand years didn't exist? Every single person who isn't a Native American was "sneaking into" the continent - the only argument against current immigrants is they arrived after you or your previous generations did. And here we are arguing about a bunch of people who were brought here by their parents when they were children or toddlers. Didn't realize that toddlers could be busy sneaking into to different countries without proper visas. And while you are at it, better deport Superman back to Krypton - he snuck in as kid too.

People are heartless mofos, aren't they?
People don't bat an eye at what Europeans did to native Americans and make excuses for what they did.

But they cannot conjure up any sympathy for people who were brought to America as infants and had 0 control of how they ended up here.
 
Again lack of fact. How do you "illegally retire" in Mexico. Explain this and provide link to statute.

Even if you are a "legal" immigrant in Mexico -- you have severe restrictions that make US immigration law seem like kids play. Legal immigrants cannot own land - they have to lease long term. You cannot serve in a government office or serve in the military. And if you get involved in political movements or protests - you are gone.

Even naturalized citizens cannot do everything natural born citizens in Mexico can. They cannot serve as an officer in the military. They cannot serve in a government job. They cannot own land on the coast. And their citizenship can be revoked for a felony.

Now please continue with your myths.

A quick search would show you countless articles of us citizens illegally living in Mexico. It’s an open secret that has been happening for years. Don’t believe me? Go research it. I didn’t think I had to provide links to something that has been reported on for decades.
 
People are heartless mofos, aren't they?
People don't bat an eye at what Europeans did to native Americans and make excuses for what they did.

But they cannot conjure up any sympathy for people who were brought to America as infants and had 0 control of how they ended up here.


The vast majority were not infants -- they were adolescents and some were sent without parents. How about the cost that you are asking Americans to bare for the bad decisions of non-Americans. With resources scarce -- to whom do you show priority? Your own or others. I am sorry -- its easy for people outside the US to right checks with our money - but there are times where we have to prioritize. Illegal immigrants are at the bottom of the cut.
 
Then Naturlize them!!
This group of people did not make a choice in this picture!...for it to be considered legal or illegal.
Punishing them for what their parantes did??.... That is ludicrous !
Only naturalized those who have the most preferential to be successful in this country. Those who choose to go to school and get good grades
 
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