Tim Cook Says 250 Apple Employees Are 'Dreamers' as Donald Trump's Decision on DACA Nears

[cgsnipinva]

You're missing the point. Europeans had no business taking anything from them.

And why is that? If later migrations of indians could steal from the previous migrations of indians -- if they could why couldn't Europeans? Or are you saying the spoils of war are only legitimate if they are taken from someone of your own racial or ethnic background?

The point is they lost and the Europeans won and made a nation. We have the right to control our borders and who enters. If you want to change that you have to change the law or defeat the United States and create a new country.

Good luck.

 

[skinned66]

Tim looks like he just threw up in his mouth a little.

 

[jonblatho]

Dreamers in many cases have come here recently all on their own.

I don’t think you know what Dreamers are.

They are young adults (mostly) who were brought here by their parents at a young age—far too young to understand the nuances of immigration law—and have established lives here and little/no established lives “back home.” Many are college students by now, and many are STEM majors, meaning they’re going to be far from “functionally useless tax burdens.”

 

[hudson1]

Talent comes before citizenship.

If an illegal can do the job better than an American citizen, then the illegal deserves the job instead of the American citizen.

We live in a globalist world now. Your citizenship doesn't matter. You will have to shape up or ship out.

We're still a nation of laws so, no problem, call your congressman/congresswoman and ask that the laws be changed. We've had a process for doing this established more than two centuries ago. It's worked pretty well otherwise no one would want to come here in the first place.

 

[cgsnipinva]

Yes, and I'm a LEGAL immigrant who spent a fortune coming to this country. Multiple interviews, countless lawyers, a process that took nearly 10 f'n years. Don't give me this BS about feelings.

All the modern day progressive has is feelings -- they lost their grasp on fact and logic 20 years ago.

 

[VulchR]

...
Well the collateral damage was caused by the people who knowingly came into the country illegally with full knowledge of the potential consequences...

Perhaps the parents are guilty of this, but DACA applies to those who came as undocumented children and who have grown up in the US.

 

[RogerWilco]

If you think the US is at full employment with 8 years of historic non-participation of labor you are an economic illiterate. Drive through different parts of this nation - many are hurting. They deserve our sympathy and attention before illegal immigrants.

^^ This, in spades

I live in a rather progressive community populated by .edu types and they were naturally dismayed at the outcome of the 2016 election. They asked "How could this happen? The stock market is surging, the economy is great, what is wrong with these people?" And all that is true in their bubble world of "salads and sun" (tks Steely Dan). A drive through Bluff, UT or Rangely, CO would show a different America.

 

[jlasoon]

All the modern day progressive has is feelings -- they lost their grasp on fact and logic 20 years ago.

"They only do jobs Americans don't want"

I guarantee you there are 250 unemployed Americans that would work at Apple regardless of what their duties would be.

 

[jonblatho]

If you think the US is at full employment with 8 years of historic non-participation of labor you are an economic illiterate. Drive through different parts of this nation - many are hurting. They deserve our sympathy and attention before illegal immigrants.

End of story,

Once again, mismatch in qualifications sought and qualifications possessed. Labor force non-participation numbers are irrelevant in unemployment statistics because unemployment dictates that an individual is seeking work and therefore participating in the labor force. (I’m the economic illiterate, huh?)

Anyway, yeah, we’re pretty close to full employment if not there, with an unemployment rate hovering around/below 5%. Immigrants aren’t exactly getting hired left and right, either. I’m no Trump supporter, but he’s done a pretty good job keeping us at full employment.

Also, the labor force participation rate is not historically low at this time per the Bureau of Labor Statistics:

 

[e-coli]

This is simply wrong. Dreamers in many cases have come here recently all on their own. Encourage by an ignorant president that wanted to thumb his nose at long standing immigration law.

As for making a contribution that isn't a universal reality. In many cases you just have another tax burden that is functionally useless as a human being. In the end illegal immigration from Mexico has done more harm than good. It is especially harmful in a down economy and varies with the illegal population density in anyone community. In general though illegal immigration is a big negative in our communities.

i

Where is the statistic you cite that "dreamers in many cases have come here recently all on their own"? Those people would not have been eligible for DACA status. DACA program enrollees are thoroughly vetted.

And "functionally useless as a human being?" What a pitiful opinion. What is the metric of worth as a human being?

I find most people who post things like this do so out of their own insecurity or sense of worth.

 

[nylon]

All the modern day progressive has is feelings -- they lost their grasp on fact and logic 20 years ago.

Oh come on now. There are feelings on all sides. LOL!

 

[wizard]

That would be asinine. Trump isn't perfect and frankly no president is, but the general idea of putting The USA first is sound. What isn't needed is more conflict and out right undermining of a freely elected president.

Im not sure what about Trumps agenda bothers you but he is more middle of the road than most presidents we have seen over the years. The attempts to link him to the far right are just that attempts and don't reflect rather centrist views.

It is rather pathetic in the way the media treats this administration. We are flooded weekly with new smear schemes that grasp at nothing in order to skew public opinion. Often these stories are out right lies or extreme distortions of truth.

So the question is what would you think of a company that engaged in what amounts to unethical behavior? Frankly Apple and Cooks behavior here borders on unethical and certainly demonstrates a lack of morals.

The world would be a better place if private companies actively undermined the Trump agenda.

 

[cgsnipinva]

Then Naturlize them!!
This group of people did not make a choice in this picture!...for it to be considered legal or illegal.
Punishing them for what their parantes did??.... That is ludicrous !

And then you incentivize the next round of illegal immigration. You have to stop the madness with illegal immigration that has been going on for 30 years.

We don't have to naturalize them. We are under no obligation.
[doublepost=1504538337][/doublepost]

Once again, mismatch in qualifications sought and qualifications possessed. Labor force non-participation numbers are irrelevant in unemployment statistics because unemployment dictates that an individual is seeking work and therefore participating in the labor force. (I’m the economic illiterate, huh?)

Anyway, yeah, we’re pretty close to full employment if not there, with an unemployment rate hovering around/below 5%. Immigrants aren’t exactly getting hired left and right, either. I’m no Trump supporter, but he’s done a pretty good job keeping us at full employment.

Also, the labor force participation rate is not historically low at this time per the Bureau of Labor Statistics:View attachment 715823

I saw your chart and the source link it proves my point - under Obama labor participation dropped to a thirty-fice year low. We are still recovering from that. The real low point in labor participation at the far end of your chart is due to the second world war and the Korean war. Those drafted into the wars were not counted as participating in the labor force for this measure.

We are not at full employment. Period. Trust those who were alive during most of those years. You weren't.

Link ==> http://www.politifact.com/virginia/...-brat-us-labor-participation-rate-lowest-70s/

"
Rep. Dave Brat says the U.S. economy is stuck in the doldrums.

"The labor force participation rate - the share of the potential workforce that is actually working or looking for work - currently stands below 63%, the lowest level since the 1970s," Brat, R-7th, said in a May 24 Facebook post.

No doubt, the economy has had a choppy recovery from the Great Recession. But we wondered if it’s true that the percentage of potential workers who are employed or trying to find a job is at the lowest level in 40 years.

Ivan Schwartz, spokesman for Brat’s re-election campaign, backed his statement by pointing to monthly tallies by the federal Bureau of Labor Statistics. They show that in April, the latest month for which figures were available when Brat made his comment, 62.8 percent of people who were 16 or older either were employed or actively seeking work.

The bottom came in September 2015, when the rate was 62.4 percent. You’d have to go back to October 1977 to find a time when the rate sank to that level.

Brat has a point in that the share of potential workers has been hovering near its lowest point in several decades.

From the late 1970s up until the Great Recession, the percentage of people in the labor force for the most part was on the upswing. But in 2007, the year the recession started, the proportion of people in the labor force started to fall from 66.3 percent and continued that decline after the official end of the recession in June 2009. The drop continued until the September 2015 low point."

 

[jlasoon]

So the question is what would you think of a company that engaged in what amounts to unethical behavior? Frankly Apple and Cooks behavior here borders on unethical and certainly demonstrates a lack of morals.

I am harboring 250 fugitives at 1 Infinite Loop Cupertino, California
-Tim
[doublepost=1504538616][/doublepost]

So, let’s get real crazy here and say that the number was 246 instead of 250. The last number we have for Apple’s employment was fiscal 2016: 116,000.

That yields 0.212% instead of 0.216%.

Whoa, huge difference.

I could find 246 unemployed Americans to do that work. That's the problem!

 

[cgsnipinva]

Talent comes before citizenship.

If an illegal can do the job better than an American citizen, then the illegal deserves the job instead of the American citizen.

We live in a globalist world now. Your citizenship doesn't matter. You will have to shape up or ship out.

The rest of the world didn't get your memorandum. Plus you are wrong. Our economy should benefit American's first. As with every nation. The political leadership has a legal and moral obligation to their citizens first. That is part of the social contract in each nation.

Second -- Citizenship does matter. You can't vote without being a citizen. You cannot hold positions of power without being a citizen. And I challenge you on your premise that the foreigner would be better than the American labor. They might be cheaper yes - but better?? Ehh not so much. I worked in a large multinational where we had to abandon global sourcing and source more within the US for better quality. The labor and capabilities in China and India were oversold.

From your arrogant statement I am assuming you are not American - or you are just someone who went through the abuse and indoctrination of public education.

 

[wizard]

Cook is speaking out because of California's culture of exploiting illegal workers. The power brokers in California have basically been exploiting Mexicans as slave labor for over a century now.

Now Cook may be a fool exploited by the left in California but the high standard of living many enjoy there comes at the expense of illegals easily exploited. Spend sometime in the state and it will remind you of the south before the civil war. It is a state where power is concentrated with the extreme wealthy at the expense of everyone else. California is not a model the rest of the country should emulate.

No you missed the point. The reason he has been speaking out on social issues is because of the massive number of people he employs that these issues affect. Now whether Cook genuinely cares or is just doing it for Apple's image is debatable, but I agree with him and support him, even if it's only 0.01% of them that this particular issue affects. I have empathy and compassion. It seems there is a lack of that coming from the right. At least as far as minorities are concerned.

 

[cgsnipinva]

No you missed the point. The reason he has been speaking out on social issues is because of the massive number of people he employs that these issues affect. Now whether Cook genuinely cares or is just doing it for Apple's image is debatable, but I agree with him and support him, even if it's only 0.01% of them that this particular issue affects. I have empathy and compassion. It seems there is a lack of that coming from the right. At least as far as minorities are concerned.

250 people is a massive portion of his workforce? Really?

And I challenge you on he empathy towards minorities. A lot of the concern of illegal immigration is related to the oversized impact it has on minority American citizens. Something that isn't discussed as much is that in general -- Trump's policies on immigration have like 75% support. In the African American community its like 62%.

You might want to think that statement through a bit more.
[doublepost=1504538845][/doublepost]

i always thought that the dreamers were microsoft fans waiting for that windows phone to be successful

Ok that was brilliant

 

[nylon]

And then you incentivize the next round of illegal immigration. You have to stop the madness with illegal immigration that has been going on for 30 years.

We don't have to naturalize them. We are under no obligation.

You simply cannot eliminate illegal immigration. The incentives don't lie in law. Hence the term 'illegal' immigration. Whether DACA exists or not has no little bearing on current illegal immigration because DACA has very specific criteria.

I think the time is right to end DACA as it was a band-aid solution in the first place and introduced under a Republican administration in 2001 co sponsored by both a Republican and a Democrat.

The rational and morally humane thing to do is to provide a path to citizenship for those who fall under the DACA program.

In order to address ongoing illegal immigration comprehensive immigration reform needs to be enacted. The system needs to be changed to be more inline with Canadian and Australian mechanism of immigration based on a criteria which includes education, language, age etc.

 

[cgsnipinva]

Perhaps the parents are guilty of this, but DACA applies to those who came as undocumented children and who have grown up in the US.

Then why were almost 30% of those "children" over the age of 19. We have had 35 reported cases in Northern Virginia where DACA "children" in High School were found to be 24 years and up to 30 years old. Yes sir - - Obama forbade DHS from demanding proof of age or physicals to determine if the claims of minor status was true.

The corruption in this program is legendary here in Loudoun and Fairfax county. There was one reported case of a "dreamer" who was in high school with teenage girls was wanted in El Salvador for sex crimes.

Stop crying about the children.
[doublepost=1504539204][/doublepost]

You simply cannot eliminate illegal immigration. The incentives don't lie in law. Hence the term 'illegal' immigration. Whether DACA exists or not has no little bearing on current illegal immigration because DACA has very specific criteria.

I think the time is right to end DACA as it was a band-aid solution in the first place and introduced under a Republican administration in 2001 co sponsored by both a Republican and a Democrat.

The rational and morally humane thing to do is to provide a path to citizenship for those who fall under the DACA program.

In order to address ongoing illegal immigration comprehensive immigration reform needs to be enacted. The system needs to be changed to be more inline with Canadian and Australian mechanism of immigration based on a criteria which includes education, language, age etc.

False on all counts. Absolutely false.

True - you cannot stop all illegal immigration -- but we historically kept it to a trickle -- almost decimal dust.
But when political motives stopped existing law from being enforced - we have suffered under 30 years of historic illegal immigration.

The law is fine -we just need a government with the spine to enforce it. Once you start enforcing the law as written - it takes care of itself. Case in point - Now - with the Trump administration we have seen a 78% drop in attempted crossings. And a 45% increase in self deportations. That is even before building the wall. Hmmm - once you communicate willingness to defend your borders and crack down on illegals -- they stop coming.

I also challenge the moral reasoning for giving a pathway to citizenship. That rewards illegal behavior. I could see temproray legal status that has to be renewed every two years. But no citizenship. That should be reserved for people who follow our laws.

 

[s2mikey]

The rest of the world didn't get your memorandum. Plus you are wrong. Our economy should benefit American's first. As with every nation. The political leadership has a legal and moral obligation to their citizens first. That is part of the social contract in each nation.

Second -- Citizenship does matter. You can't vote without being a citizen. You cannot hold positions of power without being a citizen. And I challenge you on your premise that the foreigner would be better than the American labor. They might be cheaper yes - but better?? Ehh not so much. I worked in a large multinational where we had to abandon global sourcing and source more within the US for better quality. The labor and capabilities in China and India were oversold.

From your arrogant statement I am assuming you are not American - or you are just someone who went through the abuse and indoctrination of public education.

Sorry in advance to the SJWs but Chinese and Indian labor sucks. They are the worst software developers ever. The products they make, unless heavily monitored are garbage. Most companies have pulled out of the outsourcing game since it proved to be an awful and costly experiment. Period.

 

[wizard]

Trump is doing exactly what we voted for! It is something the country needs frankly as illegal immigration has had a very negative impact on workers in America. You might want to reconsider speaking for the welfare class here (which is where much of the Trump hate comes from) and objectively look at the problems illegal immigration has caused. It isn't a pretty site at all.

Nah, we'll get rid of this garbage Trump in 3 years, bring humanity back to the States.

 

[Naaaaak]

People like you and the OP are in effect dehumanising immigrants and people of colour.

No one did any dehumanizing.
No one mentioned "people of colour".

Once you dehumanise and make these people second class citizens you can do what you want.. bomb them, enslave them, kill them, rape them. Thats the point.

Like how the oppressive Alt-Left dehumanizes anyone they disagree with as "racists" and refers to any opinion that triggers them as "hate speech"? I think I'm starting to see...

The fact that we already have people openly declaring there love of all things Nazi and Hitler just shows you how big the iceberg has become.

Pro-tip: Use communists as your "go to" evil comparison. Communists killed far more people than Nazis, caused oppression and harm for far longer, and their numbers in the US are way bigger. If we're going full hyperbole, go all the way.

Anyway, I agree. The fact that we have Antifa communists marching openly in the streets, waving Soviet flags, burning things, hurting people, and calling for government overthrow, shows you how big the iceberg has become.

<Some rant about white supremacists, nazis, hate, assertions me and another MR Poster are somewhere in there, etc.>

I don't know, man. The guy you quoted had far more likes and I understood his points much better. I didn't interpret anything you've claimed about his post. Surely all 60+ likers can't be secret racist white supremacist nazi oppressor neo-hate cis bigots, can they?

 

[jlasoon]

Nice move by Trump! Very cunning, but brilliant nonetheless.

Forces Congress to deal with this issue right before the mid-terms. Remember, these are the same people who can't pass tax reform, healthcare reform, infrastructure, immigration reform and so on. Now Nancy, Paul, Chuck, and Mitch are going to save DACA before fixing the rest of the problems? Yea, I'm sure this will go over well with the people of this country. Checkmate!

The only way DACA survives is if Trump gets his WALL.

How many Democrat Senators are up for re-election next Nov? How many are from states Trump won?

 

[hudson1]

The law changes and is sometimes morally dubious.

Currently DACA is law anyway, so.. ?Messy.

No... DACA is not a "law". It's a policy arbitrary put in place by execute decree.

 

[threesixty360]

No one did any dehumanizing.
No one mentioned "people of colour".



Like how the oppressive Alt-Left dehumanizes anyone they disagree with as "racists" and refers to any opinion that triggers them as "hate speech"? I think I'm starting to see...



Pro-tip: Use communists as your "go to" evil comparison. Communists killed far more people than Nazis, caused oppression and harm for far longer, and their numbers in the US are way bigger. If we're going full hyperbole, go all the way.

Anyway, I agree. The fact that we have Antifa communists marching openly in the streets, waving Soviet flags, burning things, hurting people, and calling for government overthrow, shows you how big the iceberg has become.



I don't know, man. The guy you quoted had far more likes and I understood his points much better. I didn't interpret anything you've claimed about his post. Surely all 60+ likers can't be secret racist white supremacist nazi oppressor neo-hate cis bigots, can they?

i dont care about likes. Half of the states voted a man in who said its cool to grab women by the p*ssy. So what?
People like all sorts of things, doesnt make it right. When they used to lynch black men in the fields there was crowds their that applauded and "liked" what they saw. Means nothing.

You can sit there and talk about all these bogey men.. Communists etc.. But again you miss the point. I'm not here to weigh up the beneifts of one murderous regime (Stalin) over another. If there were a bunch of Stalinists demonstrating through my town I'd attack them as well. I'm not interested in anyone trying to put my civil rights in jeopardy.

I just think on balance we have made a mistake letting bigots and racists speak and should have done what Germany did and banned all of it. It has no place in our society. Its beyond freedom of speech because its speech that brings forth oppression and evil. It shouldn't be allowed.

The reason i attacked the Op's post is because he is an example of the reasoning that allows harder edged racists and bigots to flourish. It's actually these guys, not the Hitlers, and the Stalin's that allow things to get out of hand. Thats the point. Appeasement is dangerous.