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Trump's Planned Tariffs on Imported Steel and Aluminum Would Likely Apply to Apple Products

Think a trade war is a good idea?

  • Sure, why not

    Votes: 5 16.7%

  • NO

    Votes: 25 83.3%
  • Total voters
    30
Just another reason to get a lot of hits on Macrumors from Trump Deranged people,
and another excuse for Tim Cook to raise prices and have a scapegoat.

Btw, liberal Democrats mostly support this, NOT Republicans! There's your irony of the day.
But despite the comments here, most Americans in general support this, whether Europe or Canada or China likes it or not. :p
 
Guda.FL said:
Not to get into a political push, not too far from that industry...there is of course good and bad in this. However, aside of his trade wars or what ever this will mean. There is truth in the overwhelming negative trade and tariffs that are imposed on our corp for example. Without using names; we import specific products that are pretty much a win for a partner...however when we try or have tried to reverse or sell back complete products back to them we are hit with 2-5x the mount of protective taxes of that nation. We always talk about it, it is an on going issues. How its to be dealt with who knows, and probably this isn't the answer, but a more fair trade does need to be addressed.

Thats as far as I can go in personal experience, however...someone else probably gets a decent perk that we dont know about that was the trade off. Who knows...
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It's hard to talk about fair trade when you get 20000lb of steel for ~$6500 (rolled coil) and give, in exchange, three units of 15" Macbook Pro. The amount of energy and natural resources a commodity exporter must consume to get high tech products is huge. If there weren't high import taxes (in Brazil it's 60% in case of consumer products) there wouldn't exist natural resources enough to equate the trade balance. I think there will always be whimper from both sides, both with good and bad arguments to defend their economic interests, but it's not patently unfair that a commodity exporter applies high importing taxes for non-commodity stuff.
 
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I have been watching the debate on TV over this. Nobody seems to even recognise there are already substantial tariffs on our goods coming into most other countries. This simply starts the negotiation to have them reciprocally reduce their barriers so we can as well. The opponents claim foreign countries will add even more tariffs as a response. Well, then we will too, until commerce slows to a crawl and both sides realise low or no tariffs are better for all participants.

BTW I only have a degree in Econ. :D

All "globalists" and "mercantilists" oppose this measure. People who want domestic industry, jobs, exports, and GDP growth (the only path to debt reduction), favour it. People who want dual domestic source of specialised materials for military and aerospace and leading edge technologies support it.
 

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My guess is that this will be mostly directed at China, with Canada being exempted, possibly some other countries. I seriously doubt this will affect Apple products in any serious way.

But you Europeans have no room to talk. You are the most trade protectionist tariff laden of them all outside of the European Union. It's about time things get shaken up. The Obama Gravy Train for the world is over. Sorry.
 
Luap said:
Why would he?
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A variety of counter-tariffs will certainly be enacted by China and others as retribution. How did Obama's tire tariff work out in 2009? (not well, by some reports it cost over $900K per job saved).
 
Rocketman said:
I have been watching the debate on TV over this. Nobody seems to even recognise there are already substantial tariffs on our goods coming into most other countries. This simply starts the negotiation to have them reciprocally reduce their barriers so we can as well. The opponents claim foreign countries will add even more tariffs as a response. Well, then we will too, until commerce slows to a crawl and both sides realise low or no tariffs are better for all participants.

BTW I only have a degree in Econ. :D

All "globalists" and "mercantilists" oppose this measure. People who want domestic industry, jobs, exports, and GDP growth (the only path to debt reduction), favour it. People who want dual domestic source of specialised materials for military and aerospace and leading edge technologies support it.
Click to expand...

Your degree in Econ should tell you that tariffs are little more than taxes on consumers; they are designed to protect selected industries to the cost of everyone else. It should also tell you that tariffs are far from the only form of government assistance to industry that produce real economic advantages. Your degree should also have put you off using terms such as "globalist" and "mercantilists," which have no real economic meaning.

I never watch TV debates on important issues unless I feel the need to be misinformed. So far I haven't felt that need.
 
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joesegh said:
A variety of counter-tariffs will certainly be enacted by China and others as retribution. How did Obama's tire tariff work out in 2009? (not well, by some reports it cost over $900K per job saved).
Click to expand...

That's a good point, and I hope a lesson was learned. Tariffs specific to China often lead to imports from other countries other than expensive investments in new production in America.

In other words, if Trump listens to Wall Street or Congress/K Street, American workers will not be helped out at all. For International people, K Street is the street in Washington, DC where all the lobbyists for corporations around the world are, and they largely control Congress through campaign donations.
 
IJ Reilly said:
Your degree in Econ should tell you that tariffs are little more than taxes on consumers; they are designed to protect selected industries to the cost of everyone else. It should also tell you that tariffs are far from the only form of government assistance to industry that produce real economic advantages. Your degree should also have put you off using terms such as "globalist" and "mercantilists," which have no real economic meaning.

I never watch TV debates on important issues unless I feel the need to be misinformed. So far I haven't felt that need.
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I generally ignore your noise, but it was globalisation under Clinton and the Bushes that exported entire industries to China and other countries. That vastly contributed to stunted wage growth we have experienced since. The lost opportunity cost of a $500 billion a year trade deficit is hard to fathom for the average person.

Imagine if your Apple stock went down 10% this week. One guy sold at the top and the other guy sold at the bottom and the third guy just held on.

The only winner is the guy who sold at the top and had the opportunity to rebuy at the bottom. Everyone else looses as compared to him.

With all the tariffs and VAT included fees and non-trade barriers we are exposed to while exhibiting free trade only from our side we are having lost opportunity costs every day, vastly larger than this trivial tariff.

Just to give you an idea of the scale of globalisation, it was vast enough to raise the standard of living for China's 1.2 Billion citizens and bring more than 10% of them into what we would call a middle class lifestyle. Our population is about 390 million. Let's say about half or less are middle class, about 200 million. In China in 15 years or so 120 million were brought into their definition of middle class. That is vast. The rate of middle class inclusion for them is above 2% a year, or about 24 million. We are losing ground due to high taxation and government overreach reducing our free market system. Hopefully POTUS will at least begin to reverse that. The evidence so far is real and promising.

I am talking to the list, not just one guy BTW.
 
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tdar said:
Sorry but no. Are you getting your news on Fox? According to Gallup, Obama never went below 40% in the 8 years of his presidency. Trumps last 2 results were 37 and 39. But Obama spent time in as high as the 60's. Something Trump will never do.
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Obama’s favorability remained high (how much people personally like the President). His job approval rating was much lower, among others. Very different things.
 
- China doesn’t import much steel from US. US isn’t even on the top 10 of China’s steel importers.
- US doesn’t import much steel from China. China isn’t even in their top 5 of steel importing countries... US imports much more from Canada and Brazil. So an eye for an eye doesn’t work for steel imports.
- The cost of steel/alum in an iPhone isn’t much to begin with..
- If US wanted to hurt China put an tariff on finished goods, like electronics... but at the end the day, the US is a more of a consumer products consuming nation than producing, so it’ll be hurting it’s own people.
 
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So the cost of the aluminum in your MacBook Pro will go from $3.30 to $3.63. I see a $50 price increase to cover it.
 
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Sigh, somebody give trump a Poli-Econ book... or better yet a YouTube series to watch. I bet he could negotiate like this with contractors and such, but it's a different game at the national level.
 
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lkrupp said:
Wow! Where to start. Do you really not have a clue as to the importance of domestic production of basic commodities like steel and aluminum? Let’s take your scenario to its logical conclusion. Because foreign companies like China can produce steel cheaper American steel companies cease to exit. Now comes a global political crisis, like say China invades Taiwan. To keep us from interfering China threatens to stop steel shipments to the U.S. China is also a major source of rare earth metals that are used in technology like jet engines, smartphones, rockets, etc. China is not our ally.
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You should take an economics course.
 
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BaltimoreMediaBlog said:
Just another reason to get a lot of hits on Macrumors from Trump Deranged people,
and another excuse for Tim Cook to raise prices and have a scapegoat.

Btw, liberal Democrats mostly support this, NOT Republicans! There's your irony of the day.
But despite the comments here, most Americans in general support this, whether Europe or Canada or China likes it or not. :p
Click to expand...

There are no, or should not be, Democrats or Republicans on this. Stop your constant berating of divisive branding. Are you a Russian BOT?

The consequences of this "experiment" will only be hard-working Americans with loss of jobs on barely nascent manufacturing sectors, which are regaining some footing from their death spiral of the last century.
 
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Precision Gem said:
They already are. Most countries have heavy taxes on US products coming in.
I had a co worker visit from China last year, and she bought 2 iPhones here in the USA since they are heavily taxed in China. She actually bought a few suit cases just to haul back all the things she bought here that bear heavy tariffs back in China. The same is true for many other countries. Try buying a US made motorcycle overseas or even a Chevy car.
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Ah, but the kind of taxes you're talking about - VAT, sales tax, and the like - are also charged on domestic goods in those countries. The basic principle is that "You can't cross the border to dodge domestic taxes." If that individual was buying in the US to avoid domestic taxation (whether tariffs, VAT, whatever), those goods are almost invariably taxed at the port of entry (presuming there's no smuggling involved).

Besides, in the case of Apple goods, which are mostly produced in China using (mostly) Chinese raw materials... if the goods are then sold in China, there's little importing involved. It's a domestic product, sold by a Chinese subsidiary of a foreign parent company. How would a pissing match between the US and China affect displays produced in Korea or semiconductors produced in Taiwan? Not much.

Overall, the world has been operating on a lowest-cost-producer model with minimal trade barriers for quite some time, resulting in lower prices for most goods. Taxation shifted from the port of entry to the point of final sale, but regardless of when and how collected, the true cost is borne by the end user. Sometimes those costs are obvious, sometimes they're hidden.

I'm curious as to whether Trump's Tariff is going to apply only to finished steel and aluminum, or whether it's going to apply to bauxite and iron ore, too? Will it pay to import Chinese bauxite to the US, then export finished aluminum back to China for assembly? Not likely; more likely it'll be a matter of purchasing finished Australian or Jamaican aluminum and shipping it to China for final manufacture.
 
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