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Lets please, stop going around in circles because nobody has ever responded and this isn't going anywhere LOL. Can you 100% guarantee that EVERY app on iOS will remain on the App Store and all future iOS apps will all be on the App Store thus allowing us that want to keep the walled garden will have the same experience/apps available to us?

Simple yes or no please, lets stop going around in circles.
Nobody will ever respond to that, get real.
We can't mind control current and future devs, but it's their choice to keep their App in, or simply offer it elsewhere. Just like it's your choice to continue using these Apps, or get something else.
 
Why would you expect that? That's not what an exclusive is. That's a store brand. You can't buy Shell gasoline at Chevron either. Are you saying Shell has an "exclusive" on their own gasoline?

Frankly, I think you have become unfocused on what an exclusive is. The game makers can choose to sell only to Epic (exclusively) and Epic can choose to market those games wherever they want and charge accordingly.
I am trying to make examples because every time I use exclusive, I get countered with "Well Epic can just put it on the App Store so"....that is not what an exclusive is.
 
Apple and this forum can fight and argue all they want but developers deserve an option to sell without gangster-like mandated 30% cuts. All that matters is the process for how this is done.

You must not be a paid app developer. That 15% or 30% cut on paid apps makes apps more profitable for developers, than if side-loading was allowed. Not less. Why? The potential for easier piracy. That's a major reason why many developers make less money from their Andriod apps than their iPhone apps, if they do both. (iOS apps do get cloned, but it's harder, so it takes time, and thus there's less of it.)
 
Nobody will ever respond to that, get real.
We can't mind control current and future devs, but it's their choice to keep their App in, or simply offer it elsewhere. Just like it's your choice to continue using the Apps, or get something else.
Well I didn't know if it was in the bill or whatever or that was a contractual agreement to allow side-loading. So I take it as a no then. Therefore, you are forcing those of us that prefer walled garden ecosystems to have a lesser experience because the potential of exclusive apps not being on the App Store.
 
Lets please, stop going around in circles because nobody has ever responded and this isn't going anywhere LOL. Can you 100% guarantee that EVERY app on iOS will remain on the App Store and all future iOS apps will all be on the App Store thus allowing us that want to keep the walled garden will have the same experience/apps available to us?

Simple yes or no please, lets stop going around in circles.
You still haven't said what you are afraid of if you're "forced" to buy a game from Epic instead of the App Store?
 
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You still haven't said what you are afraid of if you're "forced" to buy a game from Epic instead of the App Store?
Because I will need to enable the side-loading feature toggle people keep preaching about to get it, which will open my phone up to not just the Epic source but others.
 
And you've been told why your premise is incorrect, including in my last response that you failed to address.
How exactly is in incorrect.

Epic store exclusive is only on the epic store.

Yet people are telling me "Oh epic/developer can still put it on the App Store". That is not an exclusive then.
 
Well I didn't know if it was in the bill or whatever or that was a contractual agreement to allow side-loading. So I take it as a no then. Therefore, you are forcing those of us that prefer walled garden ecosystems to have a lesser experience because the potential of exclusive apps not being on the App Store.
Free your mind, that also a broader term than just these two U.S. bills.
Judgements made in the EU and rest of world will also affect the U.S.
 
The bold part is rather important and will prevent Apple from any shenanigans trying to get around the law.
True. It remains to be seen how its]’s enforced and what is allowed. Apple has a lot of good lawyers who no doubt will drive a truck through any loophole.
 
Free your mind, that also a broader term than just these two U.S. bills.
Judgements made in the EU and rest of world will also affect the U.S.
If it can be enforced either by the bill, or allowing Apple to add it in the developer contract that all apps must also be on the App Store, even if they are more expensive, I will welcome side-loading with open arms. Because I will NOT be utilizing it, but my experience will not suffer because everything is on the App Store. And yes I will gladly pay more for the App Store version of it.

Just like I am all for right to repair. I personally don't do it and never will, but you are more than welcome to do it! So I champion the right to repair.
 
This is ONLY about protecting their monopoly on where people can get apps on iOS.

Apple doesn't have a monopoly on where one can get apps. For an extra $99/annum, you can enroll as a developer, download Xcode to your Mac for free, and get apps from GitHub (source code you can compile). I have a bunch of code from GitHub running on my iPad (including emulators).
 
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Apple doesn't have a monopoly on where one can get apps. For an extra $99/annum, you can enroll as a developer, download Xcode to your Mac for free, and get apps from GitHub (source code you can compile). I have a bunch of code from GitHub running on my iPad (including emulators).

You can't get most any mainstream commercial apps that way

C'mon now - you know the difference..

Besides that, I shouldn't have to pay Apple another $100 year just to install Apps from elsewhere (without onerous and silly time limits). I'm not interested in developing Apps
 
How exactly is in incorrect.

Epic store exclusive is only on the epic store.

Yet people are telling me "Oh epic/developer can still put it on the App Store". That is not an exclusive then.
Do seriously think the folks that run Epic, a billion dollar company, can't figure out how to make money? If the way to more money is through "exclusive distribution" as opposed to "store exclusive" that's exactly what they'll do. They're all about the money, so they're much like Apple in that regard. Epic isn't going to pay a dev a bunch of money for exclusive rights to a game and them proceed to turn down piles of cash from iOS users, just for the sake of being able to claim "store exclusive!!11!1!" They'll be perfectly happy with exclusive distribution if that's what gets them more money. The scenario you're outlining is entirely unrealistic.
 
Do seriously think the folks that run Epic, a billion dollar company, can't figure out how to make money? If the way to more money is through "exclusive distribution" as opposed to "store exclusive" that's exactly what they'll do. They're all about the money, so they're much like Apple in that regard. Epic isn't going to pay a dev a bunch of money for exclusive rights and them proceed to turn down piles of cash, just to be able to claim "store exclusive!!11!1!" They'll be perfectly happy with exclusive distribution if that's what gets them more money. The scenario you're outlining is unrealistic.
Epic is not looking to be an iOS app distributor. They want an iOS App Store.

Unrealistic? Epic is not distributing their exclusive PC games on Steam and other platforms.
 
Why on Earth are people defending a totally non sensical lockdown approach on iOS when it's not that way on macOS?

It's every bit as secure, but much more flexible
The macOS model is the way here..

Do you guys not realize that Apple is only trying to defend their rent extraction
That's all this is
 
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If it can be enforced either by the bill, or allowing Apple to add it in the developer contract that all apps must also be on the App Store, even if they are more expensive, I will welcome side-loading with open arms. Because I will NOT be utilizing it, but my experience will not suffer because everything is on the App Store. And yes I will gladly pay more for the App Store version of it.

Just like I am all for right to repair. I personally don't do it and never will, but you are more than welcome to do it!
This will never work out.
Apple should better start to cooperate, every bullheaded move they do makes things worse and justified the bills and lawsuits around the world. Cooperation is the only way out.

They just have to make the AppStore attractive, and devs will stay in, except a few ones, nothing to worry about.
 
Well I didn't know if it was in the bill or whatever or that was a contractual agreement to allow side-loading. So I take it as a no then. Therefore, you are forcing those of us that prefer walled garden ecosystems to have a lesser experience because the potential of exclusive apps not being on the App Store.

There is one big problem with the piracy claim; most who would pirate would not have bought the app anyway.
 
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This will never work out.
Apple should better start to cooperate, every bullheaded move they do makes things worse and justified the bills and lawsuits around the world. Cooperation is the only way out.

They just have to make the AppStore attractive, and devs will stay in, except a few ones, nothing to worry about.
Then I will forever be against side-loading and you cannot change my mind because you are asking someone who ONLY uses iOS due to the walled garden nature to suffer due to missing apps that would require me to side-load in order to install.
 
Why on Earth are people defending a totally non sensical lockdown approach on iOS when it's not that way on macOS?

It's every bit as secure, but much more flexible
The macOS model is the way here..

Do you guys not realize that Apple is only trying to defend their rent extraction
That's all this is
Must be some kind of stockholm syndrome, or fear from the unknown, based on lack of knowledge!
 
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