Upcoming 2018 iPad Pro Could Be 5.9mm Thick With No Headphone Jack

[code-m]

I see what you did there lol. But if it doesn't exist...it can't be removed, so it wasn't, so we are all good right?

Oh paradox, if you remove nothing from nothing was anything really removed, or does a double negative make a positive in this situation.

Stay tuned...

 

[I7guy]

So Apple improved on the 3.5mm jack with BT, really.

There was no improve, headphone jack was deleted. BT has been there for a while. An equivalent function are the lightning port earpods.

One is wired the other is wireless, both can co-exist. This is not a situation of replacing the 3.5mm jack with another well established and advantageous wired option. BT was upgraded from vX, v2-v5 that is an improvement which has nothing to do with Apple. The W1 chip in the AirPods is a custom BT chip that uses BT protocol.

They could co-exist if apple left the headphone jack in the iphone.

The only patents that Apple has applied for for the 3.5mm jack is a “D” shaped variant to make it skinner. That is the meaning of reworking an established standard. The change was in its shape, this was in 2015 (I believe) which is under Tim Cook (give or take), which was abandoned.

Can you provide exactly the iphone model this reworked 3.5mm was allegedly manufactured on. Because if you can't, then it doesn't meet the litmus test of "reworked".

The included EarPods do not fit my ears, and I am not the only one. Maybe I should get ear canal surgery to use Apples definition of “universal fit” Even if it included a hook/fin that may work, however no such item is provided. The included EarPod will not allow you to charge your phone at the same time while using it for audio listening.

You need to get a set of headphones that do fit your ear then. If you want the earpods to fit, maybe surgery is in order. Only you can decide what to do. Of course you could always opt for wireless charging if you want to charge and listen at the same time. If you have a 7 you can buy a dongle for that.

Why are you trying to justify Apples poor product decision choice? Why omit it, the cost is negaligble to keep it and many people (or a minority in your opinion) still prefer to use it.

I don't have to justify anything, apple already justified it. They removed the headphone jack on the iphones.

My wired 3.5mm headphones have been in use for over 10+ years, still sound good and works. If it was a pair of BT headphones the battery would not even last, let along probably need to be replaced.

OIS was an option only on the Plus model not the 4.7” model until the release of iPhone 7. I have purchased new budget vehicles and nav was included, plus XM for 3 months. Be a wise shopper and compare features and prices, we live in the Information Age with smart devices in our pockets.

As per your acknowledgement, maybe you don’t care about this particular situation and you have moved on. Great that is your choice, however you are defending Apple and imposing your acceptance and Apples arrogance onto users who do have a use for a particular feature/function.

Apples motto, remove what worked, replace with a more expensive option that is not comparable or has some drawback and market their solution to a problem their created where none existed. Claim its in the benefit for the “user experience”, and people buy into this marketing bs. What have Apple users become?

Few remaining things:

• You can still use your headphones on every model iphone after the iphone 7.
• You did not purchase a budget vehicle with nav without paying for nav. You pay for it in the trim level. Cite your model and trim I will prove it. Most nav comes with a sirius XM receiver that includes 3 months of XM.
• Imposing acceptance and apples arrogance on users. That's rich. Show apple. Vote with your wallet. I frankly don't care what doesn't work for anybody but myself and why should I. Follow up with tcook@apple.com.
• Again, if you do not like apples direction, then move on. Continued posting of hyperbole doesn't get the job done. I can guarantee the headphone jack and touch id are things of the past.

 

[JPamplin]

This is ALL THE REASONS I still use my iPhone 6S and will happily be buying a 10.5" iPad Pro (2017) when the new ones are introduced. I use wired headphones EVERY. SINGLE. NIGHT.

 

[Abazigal]

Why are you trying to justify Apples poor product decision choice? Why omit it, the cost is negaligble to keep it and many people (or a minority in your opinion) still prefer to use it.

Why can’t he? Or are users here only allowed to criticise and say negative things about Apple?

As per your acknowledgement, maybe you don’t care about this particular situation and you have moved on. Great that is your choice, however you are defending Apple and imposing your acceptance and Apples arrogance onto users who do have a use for a particular feature/function.

No, he is offering his perspective and opinions on why Apple might be doing things the way they are. No different from the rest of the posters here.

Apples motto, remove what worked, replace with a more expensive option that is not comparable or has some drawback and market their solution to a problem their created where none existed. Claim its in the benefit for the “user experience”, and people buy into this marketing bs.

In 2016, I bought an iPad Pro, Apple Pencil, Apple Watch and Airpods. I still remember when the Airpods was released to much derision to the members here. Thankfully, I don’t base my purchasing decisions based off Macrumours sentiments.

Fast forward to today. The Airpods are the only pair of headphones I have used since that fateful day they shipped to my house. I have using my iPad and pencil daily in lessons. My Apple Watch is just awesome for notifications, health tracking and Apple Pay.

Did I buy them all because I was duped by Apple’s marketing, or because they were genuinely great products which work well for me?

What have Apple users become?

The future.

Look, coming together to whine and vent may feel cathartic in the short run, but it really does little to help elevate and advance the current discussion at hand.

If you want me to believe that you know why Apple is losing their way, then at least first demonstrate that you understand why Apple grew, and how they grew to become as successful as they are today.

Learn to set aside your emotions and prejudices. Apple is not your typical technology company (heck, I wouldn’t even call them a tech company), and continuing to evaluate them as such will simply mean that the critics just end up judging Apple wrongly every year.

Once you have a better understanding of why Apple makes the design choices that they do, it all suddenly makes sense.

Else, people will just keep underestimating Apple to their own detriment. Not that it matters in the greater scheme of things.

 

[KPandian1]

let's ignore the facts of what SW advertises.

The discussion with the flight attendant was later, I am not going by her words until I verify with the many flights I am about to take during the next few months starting this week. I do fly and love the SW Airlines model - this was a brand new plane.

Yes, even our most trusted brands bend the truth with advertising or keynote addresses. I like the convenience of wireless headphones, I use them with my home system - silence for the rest of the house. The audio is compromised.

Same with the wireless walk around headphones, the audio is compromised, but they are convenient as hell, both in-ear and regular style headphones.

Why deny us the choice of BT or wired, as the BT products are a "success"! Depending on the situation, I'll chose the headphone I need, I have both.

 

[DanGoh]

I was having buyers' remorse when I bought my iPad Pro 10.5 this past May, but it looks like I made the right choice.

 

[farewelwilliams]

You can provide links to your closing argument of your posts. No requirement to re-type anything.

I'll just ask him to read my post history if he really wants to know.

So if you prefer wireless, let’s push that choice to everyone. I use both and feel giving the user the choice is beneficial. Oh no BT battery needs to recharge, wait or get another pair.

I don’t use the lightening port, according to your logic Apple should eliminate that too since we have 15W Qi charging, oh I forgot it is the 10W or less 1st gen Qi fast charging standard. Got to love the marketing bs.

You still have that choice. the dongle will still exist for wired users. It's a downside for wired users, but it looks like wired users are going to be a minority if they aren't already.

If you eliminate the lightning port, you eliminate the ability for wired headphone users to plugin their headphones using the adapter. So no, Apple shouldn't eliminate the lightning port yet. But I think that by eliminating the headphone jack now, it'll get people to start buying wireless headphones. So when Apple eliminates the lightning port, it won't be a deal breaker for a sizable amount of users.

 

[nbourbaki]

If you eliminate the lightning port, you eliminate the ability for wired headphone users to plugin their headphones using the adapter. So no, Apple shouldn't eliminate the lightning port yet. But I think that by eliminating the headphone jack now, it'll get people to start buying wireless headphones. So when Apple eliminates the lightning port, it won't be a deal breaker for a sizable amount of users.

The rumor is that the new iPad will eliminate the lightning port and replace it with usb-c. If apple implements audio accessory mode (which I suspect is what was implemented in lightning) you'll be able to use an adapter to get audio out to a passive headset. Different adapter, but exact same principle.

 

[farewelwilliams]

The rumor is that the new iPad will eliminate the lightning port and replace it with usb-c. If apple implements audio accessory mode (which I suspect is what was implemented in lightning) you'll be able to use an adapter to get audio out to a passive headset. Different adapter, but exact same principle.

of course. as long as there is some port, wired headphone users are still able to use their headphones. eventually Apple will remove all ports from iOS devices but for now, there is still a need for a physical port on the device.

 

[code-m]

There was no improve, headphone jack was deleted. BT has been there for a while. An equivalent function are the lightning port earpods.

Please provide evidence of the industrial standard Lightening connector. If it is limited to only Apple/iOS devices it is a proprietary and not an industrial standard. USB is an industrial standard.

They could co-exist if apple left the headphone jack in the iphone.

The question is that why not, the reasoning provided at the time was due to a lack of physical space in the iPhone 7. However with the introduction of the 8 and X that Taptic Engine never shrunk, all other components did (silicone, etc). Is this a self imposed limitation that Apple placed on itself to justify the jacks omission. The Apple Watch has a Taptic Engine and those are small. I give Apple compliments for miniaturization, it truly is a marvel what their can accomplish, the question is if their cannot shrink the Taptic Engine that is less complex, this is an embarrassment to their achievements.

Can you provide exactly the iphone model this reworked 3.5mm was allegedly manufactured on. Because if you can't, then it doesn't meet the litmus test of "reworked".

it was a patent, just like many other patents that Apple uses and may or may not use it. At the time there were discussions to use it in the iPod Shuffle to make its dimensions smaller. Once again this minor change means it is proprietary to Apple. Their may have planned on using it in the iPhone 7, we will never know.

You need to get a set of headphones that do fit your ear then. If you want the earpods to fit, maybe surgery is in order. Only you can decide what to do. Of course you could always opt for wireless charging if you want to charge and listen at the same time. If you have a 7 you can buy a dongle for that.

Hence an added cost to purchase Lightening wired headphones/earphones. In your own admission, the included wired EarPods are not universal then and I have to spend more. If a 3.5mm jack was included, I could use my own headphone/earphones and charge my device at the same time. Qi was introduced on iPhone 8 and I would have to have a Qi coaster or stand while I listen via wired headphones. I have a 6ft Lightening cable that allows me to charge and listen on my iPhone 6s, should would not work, unless I used a 3.5mm cord extension. One more thing to purchase along with a Qi charger.

I don't have to justify anything, apple already justified it. They removed the headphone jack on the iphones.

Yep, I would call this inconsiderate of industrial standards and users requirements. “Screw them, we will do it our way” mentality may work for a rebellious company pre Tim Cook days, however eventually users will be alienated.

Few remaining things:

• You can still use your headphones on every model iphone after the iphone 7.
• You did not purchase a budget vehicle with nav without paying for nav. You pay for it in the trim level. Cite your model and trim I will prove it. Most nav comes with a sirius XM receiver that includes 3 months of XM.
• Imposing acceptance and apples arrogance on users. That's rich. Show apple. Vote with your wallet. I frankly don't care what doesn't work for anybody but myself and why should I. Follow up with tcook@apple.com.
• Again, if you do not like apples direction, then move on. Continued posting of hyperbole doesn't get the job done. I can guarantee the headphone jack and touch id are things of the past.

1. Need a dongle or lightening wired headphones for iPhone 7 and onwards.
2. I would call a Hyundai Elantra GT a budget vehicle, however that is a matter of opinion. Some would consider a BMW a budget vehicle, it all depends on personal wealth I guess. The 3 months was provided on every model that was capable of XM.
3. I am voting with my wallet, I greatly appreciate your reassurance and will also follow with an email to Tim Cook.
4. It is easy to say “move on” when people have been with the platform for many years and have software/apps and accessories purchased over the years. Do you believe that Apple will provide a partial refund for their functionality decisions and directions if I migrate to another platform.

You see with business, there was a reason why Microsoft held support for legacy equipment and software, as their catered to businesses. This also helped them establish them as a major player in the business and finance field. Are there pros and cons, sure there are. However at the end of the day their business depended on the success and support of their clients by not being inconsiderate.

Remember the XServe, yeah what happened to that business server hardware line. OS X Server edition was excellent piece of software.

 

[nbourbaki]

Hey, I'm hoping with usb-c, we'll finally get usb3 speeds on sync. On today's fastest wifi with a perfect signal, it would take forever to completely sync a 256gb device. WiFi needs to get a lot faster for all the ports to go away

 

[I7guy]

Please provide evidence of the industrial standard Lightening connector. If it is limited to only Apple/iOS devices it is a proprietary and not an industrial standard. USB is an industrial standard.

The question is that why not, the reasoning provided at the time was due to a lack of physical space in the iPhone 7. However with the introduction of the 8 and X that Taptic Engine never shrunk, all other components did (silicone, etc). Is this a self imposed limitation that Apple placed on itself to justify the jacks omission. The Apple Watch has a Taptic Engine and those are small. I give Apple compliments for miniaturization, it truly is a marvel what their can accomplish, the question is if their cannot shrink the Taptic Engine that is less complex, this is an embarrassment to their achievements.

Embarrassing to who? Apple can justify anything it wants. You as the consumer can elect to walk the other way. It doesn't matter what you think in this regard, it matters what apple thinks and does.

it was a patent, just like many other patents that Apple uses and may or may not use it. At the time there were discussions to use it in the iPod Shuffle to make its dimensions smaller. Once again this minor change means it is proprietary to Apple. Their may have planned on using it in the iPhone 7, we will never know.

This wasn't anything that made it into production. I asked for a concrete example and you are unable to provide me with one. That says volumes.

Hence an added cost to purchase Lightening wired headphones/earphones. In your own admission, the included wired EarPods are not universal then and I have to spend more. If a 3.5mm jack was included, I could use my own headphone/earphones and charge my device at the same time. Qi was introduced on iPhone 8 and I would have to have a Qi coaster or stand while I listen via wired headphones. I have a 6ft Lightening cable that allows me to charge and listen on my iPhone 6s, should would not work, unless I used a 3.5mm cord extension. One more thing to purchase along with a Qi charger.

See above for buck seventy-nine added cost. It is what it is. Apple is including with the xs wired earpods that don't need a dongle. Don't like the earpods, go buy yourself something else. You don't have to give apple a penny there are plenty of oem parts. Or you could leave the ecosystem for android, which supports all of your standards.

Yep, I would call this inconsiderate of industrial standards and users requirements. “Screw them, we will do it our way” mentality may work for a rebellious company pre Tim Cook days, however eventually users will be alienated.

Okay they are inconsiderate, but the headphone jack and touch id are not coming back. I'm waiting after 7 years for users to be alienated. Yet apple is now worth $1T. The universe is not aligned with your sentiments.

1. Need a dongle or lightening wired headphones for iPhone 7 and onwards.
2. I would call a Hyundai Elantra GT a budget vehicle, however that is a matter of opinion. Some would consider a BMW a budget vehicle, it all depends on personal wealth I guess. The 3 months was provided on every model that was capable of XM.
3. I am voting with my wallet, I greatly appreciate your reassurance and will also follow with an email to Tim Cook.
4. It is easy to say “move on” when people have been with the platform for many years and have software/apps and accessories purchased over the years. Do you believe that Apple will provide a partial refund for their functionality decisions and directions if I migrate to another platform.

You proved my point with the Elantra, the base model does not have navigation. You have to move up the trim line in thousands of dollars to get nav. And in your logic and Aston Martin DB9 can be considered to be a budget vehicle depending on personal wealth. But this is too far afield now.

I'm glad you are voting with your wallet, you will be much happier on the other side. I look forward to you sharing your response from Tim Cook.

As far as move on, if apple annoyed me as much you, I would dump their stuff in a New York second for peace of mind.

You see with business, there was a reason why Microsoft held support for legacy equipment and software, as their catered to businesses. This also helped them establish them as a major player in the business and finance field. Are there pros and cons, sure there are. However at the end of the day their business depended on the success and support of their clients by not being inconsiderate.

Remember the XServe, yeah what happened to that business server hardware line. OS X Server edition was excellent piece of software.

Show apple how unhappy you are and leave the flock. You owe it to yourself if you believe they are inconsiderate. As I said I would rather have a headphone jack than not, but I've adjusted.

 

[code-m]

Why can’t he? Or are users here only allowed to criticise and say negative things about Apple?

Who is stopping anyone from having a discussion. You say criticise, I say discussion. Reason being it is a rumour and not a released product. Well this is MR, and if you prefer to view this discussion as negative that is your choice. I believe it is productive to understand view points. It is not about replacing an industrial standard for another, it is about removing it completely as per rumour.

No, he is offering his perspective and opinions on why Apple might be doing things the way they are. No different from the rest of the posters here.

Let look at it this way:

3.5mm jack = royalty free
Lightening = royality fee (MFi)

If Apple is serious to make the Lightening connector an industrial standard and believe it improves on the previous standard, make the connector royalty free. if not there is only one other logical reason for this implementation or should I say omission. Fact being it cost Apple no royalty to include it on its own devices and yet charges a premium on other devices. There is evidence with the Lightening to 3.5mm dongle that cost ~$10, when comparable USB to 3.5mm dongles cost under $5. Care to explain why.

In 2016, I bought an iPad Pro, Apple Pencil, Apple Watch and Airpods. I still remember when the Airpods was released to much derision to the members here. Thankfully, I don’t base my purchasing decisions based off Macrumours sentiments.

In 2017 I purchased an iPP, Apple Pencil, Smart Keyboard and an iPhone X (returned). AirPods “universal fit” do not fit in my ears, every Apple earplugs have not fit in my ears. I am happy it worked out for you. I have even brought up the fit matter to Apple CS (no change). I also don’t base my purchasing decisions off MR users. What is your point? Are you trying to brag that you have wealth or is this some other ego fulfillment statement. I just want a “universal” solution, and what is offered is not it. Unless you are claiming I should get ear canal surgery to fit to Apples “universal fit” definition.

Fast forward to today. The Airpods are the only pair of headphones I have used since that fateful day they shipped to my house. I have using my iPad and pencil daily in lessons. My Apple Watch is just awesome for notifications, health tracking and Apple Pay.

I truly am happy for you, I have 3.5mm wired, Lightening wired and BT headphones. My first go to is my Lightening wired as it offers a lot of bells and whistles in a small package. My second is my 3.5mm on my 2017 iPP as I appreciate the sound reproduction and there is no dongle or jack on my iPhone Xs. My BT pair is used only in sweat or wet environments (minimal usage) when working out or near a pool as their are waterproof. The Apple Pencil (returned) I did not use it as much as I liked, however the Smart KB is phenomenal. Best KB and I had the pre-2016 MBP. AW, not quite matured for my requirements, plus I am not a watch or wrist jewellery kinda person.

Did I buy them all because I was duped by Apple’s marketing, or because they were genuinely great products which work well for me?

You may not have been duped, however that does not mean other less informed less tech savvy customers were not. 2017 iPP great product, Smart KB great product, iPhone X, no so, iPhone Xs great product. This is a matter of opinion.

The future.

Look, coming together to whine and vent may feel cathartic in the short run, but it really does little to help elevate and advance the current discussion at hand.

What kind of response would you prefer, “Apple has done it again” all praise Apple and their judgement. No offence I am not a “Yes man” I give Apple praise when it is DESERVED and critic as warranted. In this case it is waranted. How do you figure discussing anything related to any company on a forum is productive, unless Apple employees view these discussions.

If you want me to believe that you know why Apple is losing their way, then at least first demonstrate that you understand why Apple grew, and how they grew to become as successful as they are today.

Apple’s momentum began with the return of Steve Jobs. Tim Cook maintained that momentum, however does he have control or not of that momentum is yet to be seen. Jobs is an innovator, Cook is a humanitarian. Jobs was a jerk to his family and employees (he later understood and tried to correct his past actions), Cook strikes me as a great boss to work for. Different personalities. If you are uncertain of the physics of momentum may it relate to the markets or its user base, that is what Cook inherited.

Learn to set aside your emotions and prejudices. Apple is not your typical technology company (heck, I wouldn’t even call them a tech company), and continuing to evaluate them as such will simply mean that the critics just end up judging Apple wrongly every year.

Completely agree that WAS never a typical tech company under Jobs. Cook on the other hand is making it ANOTHER tech company. It is evident, when Jobs released the Retina iPad the hardware cost was higher, yet he kept the starting price the same. This I suspect would not have happened if it was Cook, see iPhone Xr and X/Xs/Max as a recent reference. If Apple was serious about making Lightening an industrial standard and give USB-C a run for their money, make it royalty-free, simple. The fact that their have not done so, says a lot.

Once you have a better understanding of why Apple makes the design choices that they do, it all suddenly makes sense.

Some design choice are warranted due to physics, others not so. Case in point instead of having two physical SIMs such as the iPhone Xs/Max/Xr in China, their release another with eSIM. If possible why not have two physical SIMs and an eSIM. Nope only select carriers support eSIM, while every carrier has the option of a physical SIM. Due to the Chinese government regulations where Apple was forced to do so. Think Apple could have simplified its SKUs and just offer the same as available in China, not so. If that is the case, ask yourself why not?

Else, people will just keep underestimating Apple to their own detriment. Not that it matters in the greater scheme of things.

I am an analyst I don’t take sides. I view what data is available to me and make an informed decision on that. I don’t buy into the bs and people who have emotional ties to brands as you previously mentioned.

 

[smirking]

They would be much better off pulling their heads out of their a%^&s than the headphone jack from something that audio and video professionals are supposed to use.

An audio professional would really use the raw line out of an iPad without passing it through an external DAC first?

 

[code-m]

You still have that choice. the dongle will still exist for wired users. It's a downside for wired users, but it looks like wired users are going to be a minority if they aren't already.

If you eliminate the lightning port, you eliminate the ability for wired headphone users to plugin their headphones using the adapter. So no, Apple shouldn't eliminate the lightning port yet. But I think that by eliminating the headphone jack now, it'll get people to start buying wireless headphones. So when Apple eliminates the lightning port, it won't be a deal breaker for a sizable amount of users.

Dongle not included with my iPhone Xs, its an added cost that should not be forced onto the user due to Apples omission of an industrial standard.

The question is why is Apple so inclined to force users to adopt wireless headphones. Include both are their afraid that people will opt for wired vice their wireless option. Having an industrial standard and not using it, is your choice. It is not like Apple is reducing the cost of its devices for that ~$2 savings. Apple has the ability to shrink the Taptic Engine, their have on the Apple Watch, so what is their excuse.

If Apple believe the Lightening port is better than the 3.5mm jack, why not make it royalty-free. These are a lot of questionable decisions. Why is the Lightening port not available on other non-Apple devices?

I believe you may have misunderstood my point on the Lightening port in my earlier post.

 

[I7guy]

Who is stopping anyone from having a discussion. You say criticise, I say discussion. Reason being it is a rumour and not a released product. Well this is MR, and if you prefer to view this discussion as negative that is your choice. I believe it is productive to understand view points. It is not about replacing an industrial standard for another, it is about removing it completely as per rumour.



Let look at it this way:

3.5mm jack = royalty free
Lightening = royality fee (MFi)

If Apple is serious to make the Lightening connector an industrial standard and believe it improves on the previous standard, make the connector royalty free. if not there is only one other logical reason for this implementation or should I say omission. Fact being it cost Apple no royalty to include it on its own devices and yet charges a premium on other devices. There is evidence with the Lightening to 3.5mm dongle that cost ~$10, when comparable USB to 3.5mm dongles cost under $5. Care to explain why.



In 2017 I purchased an iPP, Apple Pencil, Smart Keyboard and an iPhone X (returned). AirPods “universal fit” do not fit in my ears, every Apple earplugs have not fit in my ears. I am happy it worked out for you. I have even brought up the fit matter to Apple CS (no change). I also don’t base my purchasing decisions off MR users. What is your point? Are you trying to brag that you have wealth or is this some other ego fulfillment statement. I just want a “universal” solution, and what is offered is not it. Unless you are claiming I should get ear canal surgery to fit to Apples “universal fit” definition.



I truly am happy for you, I have 3.5mm wired, Lightening wired and BT headphones. My first go to is my Lightening wired as it offers a lot of bells and whistles in a small package. My second is my 3.5mm on my 2017 iPP as I appreciate the sound reproduction and there is no dongle or jack on my iPhone Xs. My BT pair is used only in sweat or wet environments (minimal usage) when working out or near a pool as their are waterproof. The Apple Pencil (returned) I did not use it as much as I liked, however the Smart KB is phenomenal. Best KB and I had the pre-2016 MBP. AW, not quite matured for my requirements, plus I am not a watch or wrist jewellery kinda person.



You may not have been duped, however that does not mean other less informed less tech savvy customers were not. 2017 iPP great product, Smart KB great product, iPhone X, no so, iPhone Xs great product. This is a matter of opinion.



What kind of response would you prefer, “Apple has done it again” all praise Apple and their judgement. No offence I am not a “Yes man” I give Apple praise when it is DESERVED and critic as warranted. In this case it is waranted. How do you figure discussing anything related to any company on a forum is productive, unless Apple employees view these discussions.



Apple’s momentum began with the return of Steve Jobs. Tim Cook maintained that momentum, however does he have control or not of that momentum is yet to be seen. Jobs is an innovator, Cook is a humanitarian. Jobs was a jerk to his family and employees (he later understood and tried to correct his past actions), Cook strikes me as a great boss to work for. Different personalities. If you are uncertain of the physics of momentum may it relate to the markets or its user base, that is what Cook inherited.




Completely agree that WAS never a typical tech company under Jobs. Cook on the other hand is making it ANOTHER tech company. It is evident, when Jobs released the Retina iPad the hardware cost was higher, yet he kept the starting price the same. This I suspect would not have happened if it was Cook, see iPhone Xr and X/Xs/Max as a recent reference. If Apple was serious about making Lightening an industrial standard and give USB-C a run for their money, make it royalty-free, simple. The fact that their have not done so, says a lot.



Some design choice are warranted due to physics, others not so. Case in point instead of having two physical SIMs such as the iPhone Xs/Max/Xr in China, their release another with eSIM. If possible why not have two physical SIMs and an eSIM. Nope only select carriers support eSIM, while every carrier has the option of a physical SIM. Due to the Chinese government regulations where Apple was forced to do so. Think Apple could have simplified its SKUs and just offer the same as available in China, not so. If that is the case, ask yourself why not?



I am an analyst I don’t take sides. I view what data is available to me and make an informed decision on that. I don’t buy into the bs and people who have emotional ties to brands as you previously mentioned.

You say you don't buy into the bs and people who have emotional ties. Your posts contradict this point of view and speak for themselves. But I do disagree in that Cook is both an innovator and humanitarian. He may not have Steve Jobs style, but he expanded Apple beyond maybe what Jobs would have been capable of doing, had he lived.

Dongle not included with my iPhone Xs, its an added cost that should not be forced onto the user due to Apples omission of an industrial standard.

The question is why is Apple so inclined to force users to adopt wireless headphones. Include both are their afraid that people will opt for wired vice their wireless option. Having an industrial standard and not using it, is your choice. It is not like Apple is reducing the cost of its devices for that ~$2 savings. Apple has the ability to shrink the Taptic Engine, their have on the Apple Watch, so what is their excuse.

If Apple believe the Lightening port is better than the 3.5mm jack, why not make it royalty-free. These are a lot of questionable decisions. Why is the Lightening port not available on other non-Apple devices?

I believe you may have misunderstood my point on the Lightening port in my earlier post.

Why should apple give away is patented technology on an anonymous internet posters say so? Maybe Qualcomm should give away it's IP for free?

Apple is not stopping you from using your headphone jack. You get a pair of lightning earpods with your xs, or for $1.79 you can purchase a dongle.

 

[Mac 128]

of course. as long as there is some port, wired headphone users are still able to use their headphones. eventually Apple will remove all ports from iOS devices but for now, there is still a need for a physical port on the device.

I think we’re years away from removing the physical port completely. But that’s where the SmartConnector comes in on the iPhone, and to a lesser extent on the iPad. I don’t see USB-C going away anytime soon either, as that’s going to be a PC standard for years to come and he iPad is positioned as a PC replacement. Removing that will take several generations of improvement on wireless connections. Lightning I do see going away as wireless charging takes over. But there will always need to be a need for a physical port, if only to reset the device.

Hey, I'm hoping with usb-c, we'll finally get usb3 speeds on sync. On today's fastest wifi with a perfect signal, it would take forever to completely sync a 256gb device. WiFi needs to get a lot faster for all the ports to go away

Lightning is already capable of USB 3 speeds, but Apple has not implemented it. So USB-C does nothing to change that if Apple refuses to implement it. What I think is interesting is that Apple has kept the Lightning port speeds at the same maximum that most wireless connections use, thus encouraging customers to use wireless since wired connections don’t offer any significant benefits. That said, if they include a USB-C port it’s because it’s meant to compete with PCs. However, it doesn’t mean Apple will necessarily allow faster iTunes syncing.

 

[code-m]

View attachment 795070

Embarrassing to who? Apple can justify anything it wants. You as the consumer can elect to walk the other way. It doesn't matter what you think in this regard, it matters what apple thinks and does.

Is that 3rd party dongle MFi approved.

This wasn't anything that made it into production. I asked for a concrete example and you are unable to provide me with one. That says volumes.

Apple Display Connector

See above for buck seventy-nine added cost. It is what it is. Apple is including with the xs wired earpods that don't need a dongle. Don't like the earpods, go buy yourself something else. You don't have to give apple a penny there are plenty of oem parts. Or you could leave the ecosystem for android, which supports all of your standards.

Apologies, if you posted a link it may be broken as I only see a low res image without context. Once again people have purchased a lot of apps and have refined their workflow around a particular ecosystem with accessories purchased over the years, are you telling me that Apples says “eat dirt” move along, well this does not sound like a customer service friendly company at all. When any company grows large, it has to consider many factors. There was a reason Microsoft was a titan in the finance and business world in the 90’s and continue to do so. What ever happened to Apples XServe business service hardware market, oh please remind me. What their were doing then, there are doing now with the consumer market. History can and does repeat, only time will tell.

Okay they are inconsiderate, but the headphone jack and touch id are not coming back. I'm waiting after 7 years for users to be alienated. Yet apple is now worth $1T. The universe is not aligned with your sentiments.

I use both FaceID and TouchID, both have their advantages and disadvantages. It is a rare move that Apple at times does include more I/O and functionality in its hardware line, compare the original MBAir to the generations post. Never say never.

You proved my point with the Elantra, the base model does not have navigation. You have to move up the trim line in thousands of dollars to get nav. And in your logic and Aston Martin DB9 can be considered to be a budget vehicle depending on personal wealth. But this is too far afield now.

Vehicle models vary from country to country, read the fine print. Where I reside it was included at no extra charge, now everything can be said to be charged sneakily into an entire products pricing, however last I checked I did not see a separate charge for my radiator, spare tyres, etc. If so that invoice would be a book. Let’s not jump to conclusions on the vehicle part.

Some people would call a Tesla Model 3 a budget vehicle, other would say it is a premium car. Some who can afford Ferrari and Lamborghini will claim that the Tesla Model S is a budget vehicle. Wealth perspective.

I'm glad you are voting with your wallet, you will be much happier on the other side. I look forward to you sharing your response from Tim Cook.

Tim Cook and Co., do not always respond to every email received by its users. If their are personally reading or responding to those emails is another discussion as many have assistants for those positions. There is no guarantee of a response.

As far as move on, if apple annoyed me as much you, I would dump their stuff in a New York second for peace of mind.

Yes, is Apple going to partially compensate me for my apps and accessories that I invested for a productive workflow.

Show apple how unhappy you are and leave the flock. You owe it to yourself if you believe they are inconsiderate. As I said I would rather have a headphone jack than not, but I've adjusted.

Today its the headphone jack, tomorrow the lightening port, or cable, or power adapter, etc. Things in a restrictive environment start small and then escalate and since Apple has a lot of weight the industry thinks this is normal behaviour and follows suite. Take a look at the iPhone X/s/Max/Xr price increase and the rest of the industry following months later.
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You say you don't buy into the bs and people who have emotional ties. Your posts contradict this point of view and speak for themselves. But I do disagree in that Cook is both an innovator and humanitarian. He may not have Steve Jobs style, but he expanded Apple beyond maybe what Jobs would have been capable of doing, had he lived.

Are you claiming that you knew what products Steve Jobs was working on or influenced prior to his death. Jobs was a control freak, that does not go away. Apple was his baby, Cook is just the maintainance guy.

He is a humanitarian and a great boss, he is not an innovator, unless you consider dongles as innovation.

Why should apple give away is patented technology on an anonymous internet posters say so? Maybe Qualcomm should give away it's IP for free?

If Apple believes Lightening is a better connector compared to the industrial standard, then it should offer it royalty-free to increase the adoption rate to make it the new industrial standard. Or have we forgotten the fate of FireWire 400/800 and so on. It tells me Apple does not believe in Lightening or is too arrogant to offer it for free and to force users to adopt BT or use its dongle that the 3rd party had to pay Apple a royalty.

USB was created and provided for minimal royalist or free, years later guess what has become the industrial standard. Apple adopted USB with the introduction of the first iMac, to my knowledge it was royalty-free, would their have done so if their had to pay a royalty.

Apple is not stopping you from using your headphone jack. You get a pair of lightning earpods with your xs, or for $1.79 you can purchase a dongle.

What part of Apples definition of “universal fit” for the EarPods do not fit me. Is that dongle MFi approved.

 

[I7guy]

Is that 3rd party dongle MFi approved.




Apple Display Connector



Apologies, if you posted a link it may be broken as I only see a low res image without context. Once again people have purchased a lot of apps and have refined their workflow around a particular ecosystem with accessories purchased over the years, are you telling me that Apples says “eat dirt” move along, well this does not sound like a customer service friendly company at all. When any company grows large, it has to consider many factors. There was a reason Microsoft was a titan in the finance and business world in the 90’s and continue to do so. What ever happened to Apples XServe business service hardware market, oh please remind me. What their were doing then, there are doing now with the consumer market. History can and does repeat, only time will tell.



I use both FaceID and TouchID, both have their advantages and disadvantages. It is a rare move that Apple at times does include more I/O and functionality in its hardware line, compare the original MBAir to the generations post. Never say never.



Vehicle models vary from country to country, read the fine print. Where I reside it was included at no extra charge, now everything can be said to be charged sneakily into an entire products pricing, however last I checked I did not see a separate charge for my radiator, spare tyres, etc. If so that invoice would be a book. Let’s not jump to conclusions on the vehicle part.

Some people would call a Tesla Model 3 a budget vehicle, other would say it is a premium car. Some who can afford Ferrari and Lamborghini will claim that the Tesla Model S is a budget vehicle. Wealth perspective.



Tim Cook and Co., do not always respond to every email received by its users. If their are personally reading or responding to those emails is another discussion as many have assistants for those positions. There is no guarantee of a response.



Yes, is Apple going to partially compensate me for my apps and accessories that I invested for a productive workflow.



Today its the headphone jack, tomorrow the lightening port, or cable, or power adapter, etc. Things in a restrictive environment start small and then escalate and since Apple has a lot of weight the industry thinks this is normal behaviour and follows suite. Take a look at the iPhone X/s/Max/Xr price increase and the rest of the industry following months later.

Bravo, in the last twenty years since 1998, you came up with ONE example of a standard that apple modified. I guess it's the start of trend.

If apple digs itself into a grave so be it. The naysayers, and they know who they are, predicted the end of apple when TC took over. Apple is now sitting at $1T. They know exactly what they are doing. With over 200 million customers, they won't please everyone and those who they don't please have options.

As far as the car thing, it doesn't work that way in the US, which you can tell if you login to the manufacturers USA website.

You're right about one thing history can repeat itself and it's not limited to Apple. So let's not pretend that "what goes up must come down" is only applicable to Apple.

 

[farewelwilliams]

Dongle not included with my iPhone Xs, its an added cost that should not be forced onto the user due to Apples omission of an industrial standard.

The question is why is Apple so inclined to force users to adopt wireless headphones. Include both are their afraid that people will opt for wired vice their wireless option. Having an industrial standard and not using it, is your choice. It is not like Apple is reducing the cost of its devices for that ~$2 savings. Apple has the ability to shrink the Taptic Engine, their have on the Apple Watch, so what is their excuse.

If Apple believe the Lightening port is better than the 3.5mm jack, why not make it royalty-free. These are a lot of questionable decisions. Why is the Lightening port not available on other non-Apple devices?

I believe you may have misunderstood my point on the Lightening port in my earlier post.

Dongle has already been included in hundreds of millions of devices sold. Chances are, those wired headphone users already have the dongle. If you're the tiny minority that still use wired headphones and never got an headphone adapter, $9 isn't going to be a deal breaker. Keep in mind the the negative environmental impact of shipping 200+million headphone adapters every year when most people don't need one.

Apple sees wireless as the preferred way of listening to audio. Benefits of wireless outweigh the negatives. That's why they're killing the headphone jack.

Lightning is multi-purpose. 3.5mm jack is a single purpose. It is technically a better port. Why should Apple make the lightning port royalty free? I don't get it.

You were suggesting that by my logic, Apple should eliminate the lightning port (quote: "according to your logic Apple should eliminate that too"). That's incorrect because it still serves many purposes with no practical solutions yet (how do you charge an iPad with QI? how do you charge the Apple Pencil without involving lightning? how do you connect HDMI to the projector with the iPad for people that do presentations? how do you transfer photos from an SD card for pro photographers? etc...).
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I think we’re years away from removing the physical port completely. But that’s where the SmartConnector comes in on the iPhone, and to a lesser extent on the iPad. I don’t see USB-C going away anytime soon either, as that’s going to be a PC standard for years to come and he iPad is positioned as a PC replacement. Removing that will take several generations of improvement on wireless connections. Lightning I do see going away as wireless charging takes over. But there will always need to be a need for a physical port, if only to reset the device.

Of course. Port-less iOS devices aren't going to be here any time soon, but it is the ultimate goal that Apple wants to achieve.

 

[code-m]

Bravo, in the last twenty years since 1998, you came up with ONE example of a standard that apple modified. I guess it's the start of trend.

Oh, I did not know you wanted a laundry list. May it be one or more, the point has been proven. I do not have to demonstrate a pattern of crime to say a single criminal act happened by an accused. Apple has had failures in the past too, look at the G4 Cube. However it seems some believe that Apple is righteous and flawless. Reality bites.

If apple digs itself into a grave so be it. The naysayers, and they know who they are, predicted the end of apple when TC took over. Apple is now sitting at $1T. They know exactly what they are doing. With over 200 million customers, they won't please everyone and those who they don't please have options.

The devaluing of currency through available abundance, inflation, compounding, etc in the financial markets can bump stock quickly. If you correct for inflation, etc most of these tech stocks are over valued. In the 80’s Apple also had a lot of customers, that change till their were near bankrupt. As I mentioned customer satisfaction is a big factor that is why during every keynote opening it is mentioned to reassure developers, press and other attendants.

As far as the car thing, it doesn't work that way in the US, which you can tell if you login to the manufacturers USA website.

USA is not the center of the world or universe, these are global car manufacturers. If something is not available in the USA that is fine, that does not make the same in other countries. You brought up the car model angle, I pointed out that it varies and states in the fine print.

You're right about one thing history can repeat itself and it's not limited to Apple. So let's not pretend that "what goes up must come down" is only applicable to Apple.[/QUOTE]

Apple focused forum. What’s your point?

 

[WhiteHawk]

Air Canada forbids using Bluetooth headphones at any phase during a flight on their Dash-8 series birds. So much for using my iPad on my flights.

Just as well there's still a wired connection to use wired earphones/headphones then isn’t it, just like the iPhone.

 

[nbourbaki]

It's true that wireless headphone sales have exceeded wired headphone sales but only in dollar value. Wireless is only 17% of unit sales. Makes sense, wireless is typically more expensive compared to wired headphones and you're not going to find any $10 wireless headphones at the airport that you would want to listen to. So on a unit sales basis, wired is 83% of all sales.

 

[code-m]

Dongle has already been included in hundreds of millions of devices sold. Chances are, those wired headphone users already have the dongle. If you're the tiny minority that still use wired headphones and never got an headphone adapter, $9 isn't going to be a deal breaker. Keep in mind the the negative environmental impact of shipping 200+million headphone adapters every year when most people don't need one.

Apple sees wireless as the preferred way of listening to audio. Benefits of wireless outweigh the negatives. That's why they're killing the headphone jack.

Lightning is multi-purpose. 3.5mm jack is a single purpose. It is technically a better port. Why should Apple make the lightning port royalty free? I don't get it.

You were suggesting that by my logic, Apple should eliminate the lightning port (quote: "according to your logic Apple should eliminate that too"). That's incorrect because it still serves many purposes with no practical solutions yet (how do you charge an iPad with QI? how do you charge the Apple Pencil without involving lightning? how do you connect HDMI to the projector with the iPad for people that do presentations? how do you transfer photos from an SD card for pro photographers? etc...).
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Of course. Port-less iOS devices aren't going to be here any time soon, but it is the ultimate goal that Apple wants to achieve.

Re-read your comments on the environment concerning e/waste.

Having a jack built-in does not require the addition of a dongle, which impacts the environment and contributes to e/waste. Materials extraction, manufacturing, packaging, shipping, etc. Misplace that dongle, rinse and repeat. Having it built-in, these are not a concern and more environmentally friend with no additional e/waste.

Wireless option, once again further environmental impact/damage and more e/waste as those batteries degrade overtime and have to be recharged which uses more electricity. This is anything but green just to get rid of a cable, if you are tripping over that cable, one has bigger problems.

Apple can offer their wireless solution as an option, let the user decide. Why are their being forced to choose either Lightening wires or BT. Previously the user had the choice between 3.5mm wired, Lightening wired and BT. Seems like less choice being forced on the user.

Think of the humanitarian aspect for workers risking their lives to mine these materials for components that go into batteries, phones, etc. Lifespan of wired headphones is longer compared to BT. Once that battery does not hold a charge it becomes disposable flammable e/waste due to the battery, compare that to wired headphones.

Both Lightening and 3.5mm are multi-purpose, look at Square Payment that works through 3.5mm and iPod Shuffle that charges and syncs data through 3.5mm jack.

If Apple believes Lightening is better than 3.5mm an industrial standard, would their not want mass adoption for all professional music studio equipment. Royalty-free expedites this process and informs competitors that Apple (in this case) is serious to push and better the industry. This does not happen with proprietary ports. Intel made USB royalty-free and its adoption has become the industry standard. FW400/800 was not royalty-free, guess what is now history.

One can use AirPlay/2 or HDMI to connect to an AppleTV or an external display. You have two options, its not like Apple removed the wired option in this scenario and said purchase an AppleTV.

Hence Apple offers two options to charge an iPhone wired and wireless. It is unfortunate that iPads have not adopted Qi due to technical limitations, I am sure it will happen.

Apple Pencil can utilize a similar charging option available on the Apple Watch.

Some professional cameras have the ability for wireless data transfer via WiFi, BT, etc as well as host/slave modes.

Wires are not going away anytime soon, as wireless is still limited. There have been improvements over the years, however the limitation is battery life and recharging that cannot compete with a wired solution.

Basically for a company that is advertising itself as an environmentally green proponent there is a lot of resistance towards more environmentally friendly options such as wires and Right to Repair.

This companies agenda is contradictory and questionable at best, one does not have to look far to see it. Change for the sake of change, nothing more.

 

[Altis]

Did I buy them all because I was duped by Apple’s marketing, or because they were genuinely great products which work well for me?

I don't know... did you check out other brands?

The future.

Look, coming together to whine and vent may feel cathartic in the short run, but it really does little to help elevate and advance the current discussion at hand.

If you want me to believe that you know why Apple is losing their way, then at least first demonstrate that you understand why Apple grew, and how they grew to become as successful as they are today.

Learn to set aside your emotions and prejudices. Apple is not your typical technology company (heck, I wouldn’t even call them a tech company), and continuing to evaluate them as such will simply mean that the critics just end up judging Apple wrongly every year.

Once you have a better understanding of why Apple makes the design choices that they do, it all suddenly makes sense.

Else, people will just keep underestimating Apple to their own detriment. Not that it matters in the greater scheme of things.

That's rich coming from someone who speaks of Apple like they've founded a religion.

Anyways, what's the benefit of removing the headphone jack?