Upcoming 2018 iPad Pro Could Be 5.9mm Thick With No Headphone Jack

[OllyW]

With the next future devices like AR glass, the headphone jack is useless... in 20 years we will all have apple watch as the brain like iphone is now, and AR glass for the display interface....in 20 years we will probably have high quality wireless headphones also
So only old brain people will still need headphone jack

Are you saying you think they should remove the headphone jack because we will 'probably' have high quality wireless headphones in 20 years time?

That's what I call skating ahead of the puck.

 

[fokmik]

Are you saying you think they should remove the headphone jack because we will 'probably' have high quality wireless headphones in 20 years time?

That's what I call skating ahead of the puck.

No, i say, apple is all about mainstream profit portable devices now.. so from Apple perspective this will happen...headphone jack is almost gone, but the sad thing is the OTHERS goes also Apples way

 

[BvizioN]

probably' have high quality wireless headphones in 20 years time?

No really, no. For many people, high-quality wireless does exist right now. For the ones who are so attached to the past is another matter.

 

[OllyW]

No really, no. For many people, high-quality wireless does exist right now. For the ones who are so attached to the past is another matter.

I wasn't making that claim, just commenting on another member's post.

I don't know why you have to be so scornful about people who prefer wired headphones? They have their reasons and while they might not match yours they can still be valid. While they may lose out of convienience, in many cases they are better sounding and offer much better value for money than wireless headphones with similar sound quality.

I've got some good quality monitoring headphones which I use with my iPad while I've got a midi keyboard attached. If they remove the headphone socket I would have to double dongle to use my gear, which isn't the end of the world but is another expense to add to the already high cost of being in the Apple ecosystem.

The 'I'm alright Jack' mentality shown by a lot of MR members can get a bit frustrating at times.

 

[mrklaw]

USB-C for TV out? Is it possible to use it for video-in? Eg for a less limited dual screen option like the Duet app does?

 

[BvizioN]

I wasn't making that claim, just commenting on another member's post.

I don't know why you have to be so scornful about people who prefer wired headphones? They have their reasons and while they might not match yours they can still be valid. While they may lose out of convienience, in many cases they are better sounding and offer much better value for money than wireless headphones with similar sound quality.

I've got some good quality monitoring headphones which I use with my iPad while I've got a midi keyboard attached. If they remove the headphone socket I would have to double dongle to use my gear, which isn't the end of the world but is another expense to add to the already high cost of being in the Apple ecosystem.

The 'I'm alright Jack' mentality shown by a lot of MR members can get a bit frustrating at times.

Things evolve and technology does change rapidly. I personally don't get it why some people think old tech is gonna stick with us forever just because they want to. They got frustrated with the removal of Floppy disk, again with the removal of CD/DVD drive, with the removal of 30 pin connector and many another tech that I have not mentioned. If I buy now a wireless Headphone I am going to accept the fact that somewhere in the near future the way we connect audio devices is gonna change again. Just like with these Apple Watch straps, I know for sure they won't be compatible on some of the future versions. Things are constantly changing and crying about these changes really does no one any good and they should not come as a surprise. But hey that's just me. I am the kind of guy who looks at the changes in a positive way and not be grumpy about them.

As for your iPad with the keyboard, I know this is a matter of preference but I just can't understand the benefit. If I wanted a tablet that offers sort of Laptop'ish experience I would just get a laptop (and I have the MacBook Pro) For me the iPad is all about being a plain screen (with the addition of pencil) and be able to do a lot of things on it in a way that can not do it on a MacBook. If I was going to start attaching stuff to it, for me it would be a "Frankenstein" device I personally would never buy a physical keyboard for an iPad. The software keyboard in iPads have always worked great for me and stuff I use it for, which is 100% of the times write stuff.

 

[OllyW]

As for your iPad with the keyboard, I know this is a matter of preference but I just can't understand the benefit. If I wanted a tablet that offers sort of Laptop'ish experience I would just get a laptop (and I have the MacBook Pro) For me the iPad is all about being a plain screen (with the addition of pencil) and be able to do a lot of things on it in a way that can not do it on a MacBook. If I was going to start attaching stuff to it, for me it would be a "Frankenstein" device I personally would never buy a physical keyboard for an iPad. The software keyboard in iPads have always worked great for me and stuff I use it for, which is 100% of the times write stuff.

I'm not sure if you are that familiar with MIDI keyboards. The iPad is quite a competent synthesizer with some amazing apps available but you want to avoid any lag from bluetooth audio when playing in real time, which is why wired headphones are better. Can't use it with my iPhone anymore but I'm alright Jack (at the moment) with my iPad.

 

[gnomeisland]

course, there's always USB-C headphones (if the USB-C rumor is true - shame about those Lightning phones you've just got for your iPhone) which is fine until you need to connect power and/or MIDI at the same time, so soon you've got a honking great multiport dongle hanging off your iPad, ruining its hand-held portability and raising the question of "why would you buy a iPad anymore (when a Mac would do this so much better)?"

Seems to me that Garageband and iMovie are about the right level of sophistication for the "niche" that tablets are good at - full-FCPX users are going to rely on external storage and serious cameras, and Logic Pro X users are highly likely to want to hook up pro audio interfaces, MIDI gear etc.

Once you have to tether your iPad to a brick, its time to switch to a proper laptop - and maybe use the iPad as a touch controller....

I'm well aware of what latency is and what it means. I wasn't questioning its existence I was suggesting that Apple might engineer around it.

Also, just because you can't see a reason for professional apps on the iPad doesn't mean that others don't. The internals are more than capable. The software/UIX is lacking but that's surmountable and perhaps once it is, more and more people will prefer the touch-UI for certain creative work. If the interface is quick and intuitive, what's the difference between tethering your iPad vs your MacBook to a "brick"? They will have comparable speeds and storage options.

 

[BvizioN]

I'm not sure if you are that familiar with MIDI keyboards. The iPad is quite a competent synthesizer with some amazing apps available but you want to avoid any lag from bluetooth audio when playing in real time, which is why wired headphones are better. Can't use it with my iPhone anymore but I'm alright Jack (at the moment) with my iPad.

View attachment 795158

Ah, I stand corrected. I thought you meant the physical keyboard some people use on their iPads.
Have you tried Beats solo or studio? I got a pair for free with my MacBook Pro and quite tempted to keep them! I tried them in the Apple store and to my non-audiophile ears, they do sound pretty good.
The reason I support Apple (or any other phone maker) on removing headphone jack is that it pushes all these audio equipment manufacturers to innovate and produce quality stuff that they would not do otherwise in my opinion. Love to be able to listen to a music without being connected to a wire.

 

[otternonsense]

Well, say what you want, but this is probably going to be the most beautiful Apple device of all time… Probably Steve’s vision of what the Mac would become one day…

If it also ran a more potent OS, that vision could have indeed become closer to reality.

 

[OllyW]

Ah, I stand corrected. I thought you meant the physical keyboard some people use on their iPads.
Have you tried Beats solo or studio? I got a pair for free with my MacBook Pro and quite tempted to keep them! I tried them in the Apple store and to my non-audiophile ears, they do sound pretty good.
The reason I support Apple (or any other phone maker) on removing headphone jack is that it pushes all these audio equipment manufacturers to innovate and produce quality stuff that they would not do otherwise in my opinion. Love to be able to listen to a music without being connected to a wire.

I think the Beats headphones use similar wireless hardware to the AirPods. If so, the Bluetooth audio latency would make them unsuitable.

 

[BvizioN]

I think the Beats headphones use similar wireless hardware to the AirPods. If so, the Bluetooth audio latency would make them unsuitable.

Unstable in what ways? Can you elaborate, please? Been using AirPods for nearly 2 years, never had any sound issues and they never sounded worse than the wired EarPods to me.
Never mind, read that article. Still for me have been as good as wired so far. And I do watch a lot of Netflix and Youtube stuff on my iPad.

 

[I7guy]

Are you proclaiming to be a self appointed MR Judge?

No, your getting called out on some hyperbole you can’t support with citations.

The illusion of wealth and market manipulation. When the FAANG are carry most of the increases of the NYSE in the last year there is a serious problem. This is not indicative of customer satisfaction rather expectation.

Wealth isn’t an illusion and Apple has defied the odds. Where the company is today is because of expectation, the expectations of continued customer satisfaction that results in revenue.

What, you made the vehicle comparison to the USA? Conflate much. Who cares where the Apple HQ is physically located, it is a global company that hides its cash in Ireland to not pay taxes in the USA. Their are depriving American citizens of benefits and taxes, I guess as an American you are satisfied with your quality of life being reduced, insofar Apple stays financially healthy. Responsible business practice does not extend to its finances and tax obligations I guess.

If you followed the Ireland case you are completely wrong. Not that this has to do with headphones, but we do have a global economy and what may be true in one part of world isn’t true in another. And your posts are a wee muddy.

Am I a MR moderator or editor to pick and choose what stories get posted. If you have a concern bring up your grievance with Arnold Kim.

What ever does this mean?

So rather than including a fast/rapid charger Apple includes a 5W charger and this provides the same environmental benefit. However if someone wants to get fast charging their have to purchase the Apple USB-C 30W charger used by the retina MB and store that 5W charger in the box. That is some logic there.

Providing no EarPods and reduce the cost of the device would be better. For example in my situation since the included EarPods don’t fit, I have to purchase a 3rd party option. So more e/waste.

Minimal packaging, it has gotten better however it is far from minimal.

If the dongle business was not lucrative to Apple along with MFi their would not remove industrial standards only for the user to purchase dongles to get the functionality back. MFi would be royality-free if Apple was serious to make it a new industry standard.

Removing things that were inclusive by externalising functionality is adding to environmental damage and e/waste.

It was reported that those 3.5mm dongles were best sellers at Best Buy as people misplace them. Does this sound like lightening wired headphones or BT is a hit. Go figure huh.

Now what does Apple gain by removing the jack from the iPad?

Another tangent but let’s see where this ends up. A smaller brick is more environmentally friendly than a larger brick to your point. Less material used.

Good point about not including EarPods. Maybe laptop makers shouldn’t include power cords also.

Dongles, I have more windows dongles than Apple ones. Microsoft must have a good run on them. As a shareholder of Apple, I’m actually glad there is a MFi type business. Apple doesn’t have to make the lightning cables open, anymore than BT is an “open” standard.

The reason Apple is removing the headphone jack, to your point...e-waste management.

 

[OllyW]

Unstable in what ways? Can you elaborate, please? Been using AirPods for nearly 2 years, never had any sound issues and they never sounded worse than the wired EarPods to me.

When you play a note or a chord on the midi keyboard, you expect to hear the sound more or less instantly, which is what you get with a set of wired headphones. Bluetooth audio has a higher latency, which can be very noticable and disconcerting when the sound is delayed after you play the notes, especially if you are trying to play along to a backing track or are recording.

It's not an issue when you are simply playing music files from iTunes or Apple Music.

 

[Grolubao]

When you play a note or a chord on the midi keyboard, you expect to hear the sound more or less instantly, which is what you get with a set of wired headphones. Bluetooth audio has a higher latency, which can be very noticable and disconcerting when the sound is delayed after you play the notes, especially if you are trying to play along to a backing track or are recording.

It's not an issue when you are simply playing music files from iTunes or Apple Music.

Don't think it will be any time soon till wireless headphones are used by serious music professionals, be it for sound quality but also latency.

Up to today I haven't had any better headphones than my ACS T2 headphones.

 

[theluggage]

I'm well aware of what latency is and what it means. I wasn't questioning its existence I was suggesting that Apple might engineer around it.

But, so far, they haven't - and if they do it will probably be in the form of something proprietary like the Airpods which won't suit everybody.

We're talking about a rumor that, in the next week or two, the headphone jack will be suddenly dropped from the iPad Pro purely to knock 1mm off the headline thickness and $0.50 off the bill-of-materials. Whether the headphone jack will still be needed in a few years time is something that I can be open-minded about.

If the interface is quick and intuitive, what's the difference between tethering your iPad vs your MacBook to a "brick"? They will have comparable speeds and storage options.

I don't doubt that Laptop and Tablet will, in the longer term, converge and it will be hard to say which has "won". However, Apple is still pretty much the last hold-out here - and have kinda set up the iPad and Mac as competitors, when the rest of the industry has pretty much dropped dedicated tablets in favour of 2-in-1s and convertibles.

The thing is, the #1 "advantage" of a tablet over a laptop is, to me, the handheld convenience. Once its confined to a desk (because you've 'hung a brick' from it, strapped on a keyboard or given it anything much bigger than a 10" display) - then give me a proper laptop that's designed to be used that way.

Its only Apple that are saying that a laptop can't have a touch/stylus screen so it can do anything that a laptop can do and anything that a tablet can do. Yes, there's the "gorilla arms" argument, which applies if you just lazily slap a touch screen on an existing design, but look at the Surface/Surface Book/Surface studio range (well, look at them for ideas - having had an abortive fling with a Surface Book I wouldn't touch them on reliability grounds, but the concept was good).

Also, just because you can't see a reason for professional apps on the iPad doesn't mean that others don't.

What do you mean "professional app"?

People can and do make serious music with GarageBand and serious movies with iMovie on the iPad.

My point is that a lot of the extra features offered by the "pro" versions of those applications are associated with either hooking up specialist equipment, having a shedload of fast external storage or multiple large-screen displays.

The alternative model is the road on which the Logic Pro remote for iOS is a first step - gives you the immediacy of a hand-held, touch screen controller for a computer that's sitting on the table with all those pesky XLR cables/RAID arrays/whatever tools you need for your job hooked up to it.

In short, Apple, where's the official App to turn my iDevice into a touchbar-on-steroids for my Mac?

 

[WatchFromAfar]

Correct. The conversion to analog happens further downstream reducing noise.

Technically true, however talking about analogue audio on:

https://www.soundonsound.com/sound-advice/audio-cables-wiring

"high-impedance mics or feeds from high-impedance instrument pickups shouldn't be longer than around four or five metres"

"low-impedance balanced mic cables can be tens or even hundreds of metres long"

"semi-pro equipment, keeping balanced mic or line cables down to 10 or 20 metres"

Which one of the above categories does your four-foot (at best) earphones fall into? A digital connection offers no audio benefit over an analogue one.

 

[OllyW]

Don't think it will be any time soon till wireless headphones are used by serious music professionals, be it for sound quality but also latency.

Up to today I haven't had any better headphones than my ACS T2 headphones.

Those aren't Bluetooth headphones though.

 

[Grolubao]

Those aren't Bluetooth headphones though.

I know, exactly. Until I find headphones as good as these, it will not fly for me. I still like the convenience of the Airpods for every day jobs, but if I really like listening to music I could never consider the Airpods

 

[H3LL5P4WN]

Sorry, but Apple has no business calling this "Pro" if they pull the headphone jack. They would be much better off pulling their heads out of their a%^&s than the headphone jack from something that audio and video professionals are supposed to use.

If, in fact, they do jettison the lightning port for a USB type C port, that might give them some credit in the "Pro" department.

Good riddance to the headphone jack, and it'd be stupid to go USB-C on an iOS device.

 

[Abazigal]

Flash was flawed to begin with, it was a resource hog and had security breaches every second day. I am happy it was killed off. Steve Jobs had that part right, however some claim there was a feud between Apple and Adobe relating to flash and Steve had a fit and said, screw you Adobe. HTML5 was no where ready for prime, it was a promising tech however unable to complete with the mature and established Flash. Apple gave it a chance. Another reason why Steve did not include support for Flash on the original iPhone, was it being a resource and battery hog the user experience would have suffered.

And at the time, many websites were coded in flash, and users were legitimately disadvantaged by the iPad's inability to run flash. Heck, Samsung even ran advertisements touting how their tablets could run flash while the iPad couldn't. As a teacher, I too was frustrated from time to time because there were several educational websites using flash and I couldn't run them on my iPad.

Which brings me to my next point. It doesn't matter what your sentiments on flash were at the time. Apple had their own personal reasons for favouring HTML5 over flash back then, just as I am sure they have their own vested interests in pushing for bluetooth over wired today.

That you were okay with Apple waging war on flash back then because of your distaste for flash is irrelevant. Apple doesn't care about whether you have a personal vendetta against a certain technological standard or not.

How does this analogy compare to remove a optimized and not a resource hog that is 3.5mm jack compared to the BT that requires a battery, usage time is limited and life cycle is limited is beyond me. If anything I would consider BT to be Flash and 3.5mm to be HTML5.

Because you are still making the mistake of thinking "Oh, it's okay for Apple to wage war on flash because I personally hate flash, but it's not okay for Apple to attack the headphone jack because I personally still have use for it."

Do you not see the irony here?

I have acknowledged that as a company, Apple owes me no fealty. I perfectly expect Apple to pull this sort of stunt every now and then (I would actually be more disappointed if they didn't). Sometimes, the move either doesn't affect me or actually pushes technology in a direction that is to my advantage. Other times, the move is to my direct disadvantage.

Either way, I hold no ill will towards Apple. It is what it is, and I will continue to do as I have always done. Adapt and move on.

Please provide an example where BT is better than 3.5mm and lets omit the obvious wire and wireless argument, as this is subjective. I have never had an issue with wires and if it was such a big deal people have been using it for decades without a problem.

I already did when I shared about my experiences with the AirPods. I have been using them (and only them) since I got them in end 2016, and can now no longer stomach the experience of having wires around my neck or tugging at my devices. The AirPods are super-comfortable to wear (I can leave them in my ears for hours on end without any discomfort), extremely light and portable, easy to keep and take out, and I am fine with the sound quality they provide.

To me, the sheer convenience afforded by AirPods more than outweigh every other drawback they may have. The only downside is that noise cancelling is practically non-existent, so I can't hear anything in a noisy environment like a packed train, but it's a small tradeoff overall.

You are right. It is all subjective. Prior to the AirPods, I did try other bluetooth headphones but they all had their own share of problems, from battery life to pairing issues. With the AirPods, I find that Apple has managed to engineer away the pain points of using wireless headphones with the unique design of the AirPods, which in turn further juxtaposes the contrast in user experience compared to wired headphones.

The long game of Apple is more like a long con on the user, where the option of affordability and convenience had been taken away in favour of a limited and incomparable option. Unless you believe that the music studios are going to adopt BT, I would like to see some evidence in the wild.

Apple has never been about providing options. Rather, Apple offers one optimised user experience. If you are willing to hop on board, the experience is honestly quite magical (for lack of a better adjective), because Apple has gone the distance in making this experience work. If you want to try and fight what Apple has set into motion, then the whole experience is like trying to jog in quicksand. Ultimately pointless, and you have little to look forward to save a slow and painful death.

That's my philosophy when it comes to Apple products at least. Since I have chosen to to use Apple products, I will embrace the Apple ecosystem in its entirety and (generally) not try not fight whatever Apple seeks to do. Maybe that makes me a loser in the greater scheme of things, but as of the moment, my apple products are still working great for me and I see myself continuing to stay a happy and satisfied Apple customer for a good many years to come.

If Apple believes in their vision and their want people onboard, then the market should speak and make a decision not Apple. I get what you are saying, however their are not going about it in a diplomatic method. For a company as large as Apple, their actions hold weight in the industry.

This is not a democracy. Apple is not obligated to hold a poll and ask users whether they want a headphone jack in the next iPhone or not. The choice users have is pretty simple and straightforward. If you don't like the design choices that Apple is making, then don't buy their products.

And the market has spoken, loud and clear.

 

[NukeDuke]

More people will be mad about the lack of a headphone jack than the number of people who would have used the jack if it were included.

I actually don't care about the Jack for myself (on my iphones I use wireless headphones) but I use iPads with my kids and I don't want to have to deal with the hassle or cost of wireless headphones for them (both elementary school age kids)

Also, both my kids have to charge their iPads regularly when using them so not having a dual option to charge and listen without extra cost dongles will be an issue.....

 

[bladerunner2000]

Stationary device? I thought we were discussing the iPad.

Do you ever take your iPad for a run?

 

[Abazigal]

Do you ever take your iPad for a run?

No, but I do use it on the move, such as walking around the classroom with it, keying in fitness test results into google docs in the school field, updating my school blog while with my students overseas, even reading my emcee script while on stage.

And they all benefit from the iPad being as thin and light as possible. So long as Apple is able to maintain the long battery life that iPads are renowned for, there is really no such thing as the iPad being too thin or too light (for me).

 

[dewski]

Good. No one uses headphones on an ipad anyway. If you want to use headphones u should just buy the $160 AirPods.

edit: Just because you think you need wired headphones on an ipad doesn't mean you're right. if Apple is removing the headphone jack it's because you don't need a headphone jack.

So they know better than me?