I've seen two type of failures. Either it will not show up as a storage drive. Kinda like a memory card adapter with no memory card in it. Or it will simply not save files, like those fake usb drives that are formatted ro look like 128gb but are only 4 gb. If you write more than 4gb on it, the rest magically disappears into cyberspace.
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Upgrading 2013-2015 Macbook Pro SSD to M.2 NVMe
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Indeed very differently. Some “Pro” SSDs continue working, some just stop, some show a SMART warning.
Interesting article here:
The SSD Endurance Experiment: Casualties on the way to a petabyte
I feel for the subjects of our SSD Endurance Experiment. They didn’t volunteer for this life. These consumer-grade drives could have ended up in a corporate desktop or grandma’s laptop...
And have you ever heard of “WAF” ????!!!! No?
Then check the articles by Crucial:
Why does my SSD seem to be wearing prematurely?
Since the advent of NAND flash storage devices, flash wear-out has been an issue that receives significant attention.
www.crucial.com
And I almost forgot... the expected behaviour is that the SSD goes to read-only mode and allows you to save your data. But not all are doing that.
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Thanks, this is useful to knowIndeed very differently. Some “Pro” SSDs continue working, some just stop, some show a SMART warning.
Interesting article here:
The SSD Endurance Experiment: Casualties on the way to a petabyte
I feel for the subjects of our SSD Endurance Experiment. They didn’t volunteer for this life. These consumer-grade drives could have ended up in a corporate desktop or grandma’s laptop...techreport.com
And have you ever heard of “WAF” ????!!!! No?
Then check the articles by Crucial:
... and by KIOXIA:Why does my SSD seem to be wearing prematurely?
Since the advent of NAND flash storage devices, flash wear-out has been an issue that receives significant attention.
And I almost forgot... the expected behaviour is that the SSD goes to read-only mode and allows you to save your data. But not all are doing that.
xboxbml
macrumors 6502a
Wow.. that's pretty good! What were you using for that data and is it sustainable? Also, which processor/memory do you have? Is it i7 or i5? See sig. I have same machine, but don't get quite that high speeds.
Mine is 13" Core i7.
Not sure if its sustainable , that's what black magic speed test showed.
xanderx007
macrumors 6502
I wouldn't know, since the drive would most likely fail for some other reason before reaching its wear limit. I doubt though that it'll still be at the same capacity, since the <wear> itself is lost space.
xanderx007
macrumors 6502
Even with HDDs, I practice not over-taxing the drive by filling it past 80%. With the previous 512GB stock drive of my MBP 2014, I had no choice, because I had to keep my project files on the drive for quick access, so I had to regularly back my data up and remove most of the inactive projects, so I can fill it in with new data.Indeed very differently. Some “Pro” SSDs continue working, some just stop, some show a SMART warning.
Interesting article here:
The SSD Endurance Experiment: Casualties on the way to a petabyte
I feel for the subjects of our SSD Endurance Experiment. They didn’t volunteer for this life. These consumer-grade drives could have ended up in a corporate desktop or grandma’s laptop...
And have you ever heard of “WAF” ????!!!! No?
Then check the articles by Crucial:
... and by KIOXIA:Why does my SSD seem to be wearing prematurely?
Since the advent of NAND flash storage devices, flash wear-out has been an issue that receives significant attention.
And I almost forgot... the expected behaviour is that the SSD goes to read-only mode and allows you to save your data. But not all are doing that.
With the 1TB upgrade, I am able to keep my free space above 500GB since I still do regular backups, but I seldom have to <recycle> space anymore since I just delete random files. As I understand it, SSDs operate quite in reverse the way HDDs do, as HDDs can write smaller chunks of data faster, but both, I suppose, operate the same way in storing data. Both search for the largest available space for a large chunk of data and fills that, and looks for the next available area to store the rest of the data. The difference is, because SSDs work in blocks, and there are no moving parts, data write and retrieval are significantly faster regardless of where chunks of the data are. For larger files, it simply consumes several blocks of free space. HDDs can also do that, but it stores large chunks of data in several sectors, and since not all sectors are of the same size, access to outer sectors take far longer.
As I understand it, SSDs will move a file into new pages/blocks when it is rewritten, as such to cycle through the cells, so, the larger the files, the less it has to recycle through the cells, which is probably the reason why larger capacities have longer wear factors.
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I received the Rocket today. Way way faster than the P2. I'll live with any power increase and it's not even worth benchmarking the P2 any longer.
Hi Everybody ! I have been looking for answers for a long time now but didn't find anywhere.
I'm on Macbook Pro mid-2015 15" running on Mojave and really want to upgrade with an Nvme SSD for Storage and speed.
I am hesitating between different models, and I assume that I have to make a decision soon, if not I could spend years trying to find the best... 😛
Some people already ask here but never had answers about the 2To Seagate FireCuda M.2 NVMe PCIe. Has anyone ever tried it ?
If not, I would get the famous Sabrent Rocket 2280 in 2to also or the WD_BLACK SN750 2 To.
In my case, running on Mojave (don't think the computer has already been on High Sierra), can I simply clone my previous SSD in the new one ?
Thanks for your advice, and thanks for this amazingly rich thread.
I'm on Macbook Pro mid-2015 15" running on Mojave and really want to upgrade with an Nvme SSD for Storage and speed.
I am hesitating between different models, and I assume that I have to make a decision soon, if not I could spend years trying to find the best... 😛
Some people already ask here but never had answers about the 2To Seagate FireCuda M.2 NVMe PCIe. Has anyone ever tried it ?
If not, I would get the famous Sabrent Rocket 2280 in 2to also or the WD_BLACK SN750 2 To.
In my case, running on Mojave (don't think the computer has already been on High Sierra), can I simply clone my previous SSD in the new one ?
Thanks for your advice, and thanks for this amazingly rich thread.
MrAverigeUser
macrumors 6502a
what many people do not think about:
the wear is not just about files written, it is also about SWAP.
especially if someone does a lot of postproduction in photography or other intensive work.
having upgraded the RAM at its max (mostly 16 GB for the old_but_good MBPs we are talking about) will save a lot of ssd-wear because it will always reduce SWAP.
And investing in SSD storage that seems to be „oversized“ at first glance could be worth a lot at long-term perspective. Especially if one uses MBP which easily exchangeable SSD as we we do. 1 TB of space costs now even less than 100 € or USD even if one of the best-reputed SSDs has been chosen.
because the „protection“ of the SSD any „oversized“ space will have a non-linear positive effect, which is near a exponential function, oversized space of SSDs gives normous protection concerning wear, plus constant speed, plus no more calculating needed if one should erase some data or even buy an external SSD which might be sometimes carried with you…
As for needed resting space on SSDs: Modern SSD seem to be very resistent.
I know because I have to confess that I did not have attention enough about two SSD some months ago and filled them nearly to 100% up, while I was thinking way too long about switching from SATA-MBP auf 2012 to NVMe M.2 MBPs of 2015….
Two Samsung 2TB (SATA), one which had only 21 GB resting free Space (!) the second with not even 12 GB of resting space ! And they both still worked flawlessly, as I realized the shocking state of the SSD. Needless to say that my risky fault is NOT RECOMMENDED to be reproduced. 😀 I had just luck and obviously very reliable SSDs… please don’t count on That, you might lose….
Looking back at my SSDs from my experience, I would say that normal private use (Spotify, YouTube, emails, films, TV, office, photography without elaborated postprocessing) with maxed-up RAM will not see their limit even after 10 years… if you chose a well-reputated SSD with a comfortable „oversized“ space…
Evidently modern SSD have very improved technology and reliable controllers for Trim and further protection.
cheers
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xanderx007
macrumors 6502
The SWAP file (or virtual memory) is basically just another file that gets written and rewritten. As it were, it moves over varied sectors/blocks of the HDD/SSD, but I suppose, doesn't necessarily <write> any data until the file is saved, so everything very much still relies on RAM.
It's often a rather small chunk, about 10-20% of the file size you are working on. For image data, SWAP often balloons when a document reaches a certain file size, but, the SWAP file itself resides on the same space your file is saved, meaning, the System frees up necessary space for the file as the space for it increases. As such, nothing is really ever written until one saves it on the drive.
One thing about the Modern MacOS is its use of drive space for Time Machine backups, which unlike VM is actual written data. That, I believe contributes to SSD wear far more than VM/SWAP.
MrAverigeUser
macrumors 6502a
I thought indeed, that ALL the space taken on the SSD for SWAP is written data and not just written to a much smaller part. Are you sure that not all space of virtual memory is definitely only written data to a small part ?
But I think it is important to realize that written data are indeed much more than only the data of the files we consciously see as our saved data and that this has to be taken in account when choosing the space for a new SSD or a new Mac… the latter more important for the Macs with soldered SSD.
For me this is the reason why I still resist to buy Macs with soldered SSDs.
Since there exist already for nearly 20 years very fast connections like Thunderbolt and NOW excellent chances to use very fast and compact SSD plus very fast and reliable enclosures this might be a good alternative to save a lot of money without problems.
I hope that one day apple will realize that they have to correct their strategy to sell SSD space for ridiculous astronomic prices.
cheers
Thanks for the motivation and experience to help me upgrade my SSD. This is my short experience with Kingston A2000 SSD for the past 7 days.
MacBook Pro 13” Late 2013 (MacBookPro11,1)
macOS Monterey 12.2.1
Kingston A2000 500GB SSD with a short adapter (no brand)
MacBook Pro 13” Late 2013 (MacBookPro11,1)
macOS Monterey 12.2.1
Kingston A2000 500GB SSD with a short adapter (no brand)
- Everything works including wake-up from deep sleep
- Read/write speed: >1600 MB/s
- The whole MacBook is warm, including the battery, with the area above (the keyboard) and below (the back) the SSD being the warmest
- It is warm even when no app is running
- The MacBook is not warm at all. Only the vent is slightly warm
- This is with Safari, Mail and Notes apps running
- OpenCore without kexts: overnight loss of charge of 20-25%
- OpenCore Legacy Patcher with NVMeFix.kext: overnight loss of charge of 3-4%
Hey Guys I have read the first 50 pages of this forum and thankfully now have a idea of what I need but since this post spans over 5 years and technology evolves:
I got an early 2015 Macbook Pro with: 2.7 GHz Dual-Core Intel Core i5, 121 GB (I guess its 128 usually?) which I would like to upgrade to a 1 TB SSD. Now really need the storage which is my biggest concern. My battery has now a cycle count of 1050 but I can tell its draining mostly because I barely have storage.
My question: Is the Sabrent 1TB Rocket NVMe PCIe M.2 2280 Internal SSD the right fit? or will it drain my battery and make my laptop slower since its specs say it will read/write up to 3400? Can my MBP 13" even write this fast? If not is this an issue and will make my laptop slower or do I need a 1 tb SSD that has lower Writing speeds?
If this is not the best option for my MacBook what SSD would you recommend?
THANK YOU SO MUCH!!
I got an early 2015 Macbook Pro with: 2.7 GHz Dual-Core Intel Core i5, 121 GB (I guess its 128 usually?) which I would like to upgrade to a 1 TB SSD. Now really need the storage which is my biggest concern. My battery has now a cycle count of 1050 but I can tell its draining mostly because I barely have storage.
My question: Is the Sabrent 1TB Rocket NVMe PCIe M.2 2280 Internal SSD the right fit? or will it drain my battery and make my laptop slower since its specs say it will read/write up to 3400? Can my MBP 13" even write this fast? If not is this an issue and will make my laptop slower or do I need a 1 tb SSD that has lower Writing speeds?
If this is not the best option for my MacBook what SSD would you recommend?
THANK YOU SO MUCH!!
MrAverigeUser
macrumors 6502a
it is impossible to identify correctly your MBP since I did not find a MBP 11,1 with dual core i5 and 2,7 MHz from 2015…. This combination seems not to exist….
At least it is a 13“ MBP?
first have a look at the serial number, and identify your MBP correctly using Everymac.Com
edit:
Your MBP seems to be a 12,1 and NOT a 11,1 as you posted....
is it this MBP?
MacBook Pro "Core i5" 2.7 13" Early 2015 Specs (Retina Early 2015 13", MF839LL/A*, MacBookPro12,1, A1502, 2835): EveryMac.com
Technical specifications for the MacBook Pro "Core i5" 2.7 13" Early 2015. Dates sold, processor type, memory info, hard drive details, price and more.
everymac.com
To know precisely if you own a early 2015 or a later version of 2015 is very important for the possible speed because they have different hardware.
You can read this in the very first posting of this thread:
"
The Retina 15" mid 2015 supports 4x lanes PCIe 3.0 speed eg. up to 3000MB/s. The early 2015 Retina 13" supports 4x lanes PCIe 2.0 speed.
They do both natively support hibernation on NVMe SSD
- MacBook Pro Retina 13" early 2015 (MacBookPro12,1) "
You can test the speed of internal and also external SSD easily with free software like for example blackmagic speed test.
I dont think you will reach at > 3.000 MB/s write and reads with the Sabrent SSD .... and this speed will also be rarely necessary or make a relevant difference.
You ask for recommendations but you do not at all tell us for what type of all-day work you are doing with your MBP....
I did a test of the original SSD build-in my 2015 15" MBP A1398 11,4 and found out that the speed of the original SSD is about 1.000 Write/reads. Which is fine if compared to the older SATA III SSd with a limit of about 480-500 MB/s... if you are lucky to get one of the best SSD of the market.
Using the Sinatech adapter (long version for very good heat dissipation) and a 2TB Samsung 970 EVO plus ("old" model with the Phoenix Controller and "old" firmware) I reached about 2.800 write/read speed.
This seems to be the fastest speed reported yet with that 11,4 MBP-model 15" 2015 I use.
I am very glad about this - by the most important was to have enough space, which is now the case.
second priority was to get some more speed, which is the case as well.
It takes about 20 sec to start my MBP now... but nothing in my life will change if it took 30 or 60 sec....
I´d be happy if it was "ONLY" about 2.000 Write/speed (which is already double the former speed) because in real life use this will be more than enough for 99,99% of us..... most of the users will not even "feel" a difference between say 1.000 or 1.500 W/R and 2.800 or even (unreachable) 3.400 W/R speed in real life.... but maybe you are a user in the extremely exotic class of 0,01 % ?
IMHO what is most important apart from enough space is max. reliability of adapter and SSD - and that for 100% of users.
BTW:
It seems to be more effective to read the extremely elaborated and actualized first posting (thanks to the author who sacrificed a lot of his time to do that) and more the LAST 50 pages than the first 50 pages - since this thread has been started 5 (!) years ago.... 😉 and a lot of things have changed.
cheers
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xanderx007
macrumors 6502
As I said, it moves around various sectors (HDD) and now SSD block, it doesn't really <stick> into one place, and since it only exists when the computer is powered up, it doesn't really write anything on disk, at least not permanently. This is of course different from a partition for, say, bootcamp, which is actually reserved over several sectors/blocks.
Of course there are far more things happening on the drives, which is essentially the reason why that if we are going to upgrade, we might as well upgrade to the max capacity the system is rated for.
It's highly possible that soldered RAMS and storage will be the norm for the next Generation Macs, unless another class-action suit makes Apple change its mind. Myself? It's more about budget and waiting for all the kinks to get ironed out, as I have been reading. Let the first adapters suffer. I'm not in a hurry.
I think My MBP can run on an external SSD, as I have tested. It's a tad slower, but manageable.
MrAverigeUser
macrumors 6502a
@helpmeplease22
It seems that your MBP is a version already equipped with 4xPCIe 3.0 - so you are lucky.
As for the SSD-Speeds of the originally build-in SSD the already mentioned link to everymac says this MBP 12,1 type is sporting:
*Third-party tests using the Blackmagic benchmark report write speeds of 643.6 MB/s and read speeds of 1.3 GB/s."
It seems that you can reach much higher speeds - if you select a reliable adapter and a reliable SSD.
Just have a look at the various reports about a lot of combinations here in this thread.
It seems that your MBP is a version already equipped with 4xPCIe 3.0 - so you are lucky.
As for the SSD-Speeds of the originally build-in SSD the already mentioned link to everymac says this MBP 12,1 type is sporting:
*Third-party tests using the Blackmagic benchmark report write speeds of 643.6 MB/s and read speeds of 1.3 GB/s."
It seems that you can reach much higher speeds - if you select a reliable adapter and a reliable SSD.
Just have a look at the various reports about a lot of combinations here in this thread.
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Thank you for you answer @otosan, I've received my new CORSAIR MP510 NVMe PCIe Gen3 x4 M.2 SSD 960GB and now I can upgrade my MacBook Pro.
I understand for the "Trash bin version" Mac Pro and I will investigate about that.
If you have some advices before I run into the upgrade, that will be great!
I have another question:
Is there a reverse gummstick connector?
I want to use the Apple's SSD as an external drive, so I imagine I need a sort of reverse apple proprietary gummstik in order to plug the ssd on a regular external drive box?
Sharing:
Maybe someone have already put this link on the forum but here a good article about Apple's SSD history.Credits to :
Cody Henderson
Link:
Apple Proprietary SSDs: Ultimate Guide to Specs & Upgrades | BeetsBlog
Apple’s SSDs are confusing. Are they M.2 drives? What connector do they use? AHCI or NVMe? What drive can I use to upgrade? We have answers. We’ll tell which SSDs work in which MacBook Pros, iMacs, Mac minis and more.
beetstech.com
Best regards
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First update after two weeks: until last Wednesday everything worked fine, but as of Wednesday I get now every second day the following Kernel panic messages:
Feb 23 - 8.15pm
panic(cpu 2 caller 0xffffff8009cd4520): Sleep transition timed out after 180 seconds while entering darkwake on way to sleep. Suspected bundle: com.apple.iokit.IOGraphicsFamily. Thread 0x74.
Failure code:: 0x212d9f00 00000031
Feb 25 - 11.05pm
panic(cpu 0 caller 0xffffff80026d4520): Sleep transition timed out after 180 seconds while calling power state change callbacks. Suspected bundle: com.apple.iokit.IOGraphicsFamily. Thread 0x8814f.
Failure code:: 0x00000008 00000014
Feb 27 - 10.08am
panic(cpu 0 caller 0xffffff8004ed4520): Sleep transition timed out after 180 seconds while calling power state change callbacks. Suspected bundle: com.apple.iokit.IOGraphicsFamily. Thread 0x9d65e.
Failure code:: 0x00000008 00000014
Any ideas where this comes from and what I can do to prevent it?
I am running in the meantime Monterey 12.2.1.
Thank you for all hints.
MrAverigeUser
macrumors 6502a
Thank you for you answer @otosan, I've received my new CORSAIR MP510 NVMe PCIe Gen3 x4 M.2 SSD 960GB and now I can upgrade my MacBook Pro.
I understand for the "Trash bin version" Mac Pro and I will investigate about that.
If you have some advices before I run into the upgrade, that will be great!
I have another question:
Is there a reverse gummstick connector?
I want to use the Apple's SSD as an external drive, so I imagine I need a sort of reverse apple proprietary gummstik in order to plug the ssd on a regular external drive box?
Sharing:
Maybe someone have already put this link on the forum but here a good article about Apple's SSD history.
Credits to :
Cody Henderson
Link:
Apple Proprietary SSDs: Ultimate Guide to Specs & Upgrades | BeetsBlog
Apple’s SSDs are confusing. Are they M.2 drives? What connector do they use? AHCI or NVMe? What drive can I use to upgrade? We have answers. We’ll tell which SSDs work in which MacBook Pros, iMacs, Mac minis and more.
Best regards
THANK YOU very much for linking this wonderful article , which should be seen as a must-read for everybody projecting an upgrade SSD-wise for older Mac-machines !
cheers
MrAverigeUser
macrumors 6502a
You should edit your prior, euphoric posting to prevent that others will experience the same problems by adding this text to the older one…
That would be nothing but fair…
cheers
Silencio
macrumors 68040
There's no definitive answer yet for the 3rd party NVMe controller. Loss of MMIO space kernel panic in Monterey? I have a 2015 15" MacBook Pro with Sabrent Rocket 2TB NVMe and long Sintech adapter that worked flawlessly for a couple of years under Catalina. I did reinstall the stock Apple SSD to update the firmware before upgrading to Monterey on the Sabrent NVMe.
Updating to Monterey 12.2.1 hasn't helped. I scanned the NVMe using Drive Rx and it returns a clean bill of health. The only other mitigating factor in the case of my laptop is the battery is failing out, and I finally got ahold of a replacement I should install today.
If anyone has a different model of 2TB NVMe they are able to run stably in a 2015 15" MacBook Pro running Monterey, I'd be interested.
Updating to Monterey 12.2.1 hasn't helped. I scanned the NVMe using Drive Rx and it returns a clean bill of health. The only other mitigating factor in the case of my laptop is the battery is failing out, and I finally got ahold of a replacement I should install today.
If anyone has a different model of 2TB NVMe they are able to run stably in a 2015 15" MacBook Pro running Monterey, I'd be interested.
Not sure what you are talking about. There was only one post were I reported back that I was able to successfully install the SSD. Not more, not less. Don't think this was euphoric. As long as I do not have more insight into the root cause of those error messages there is no reason to correct that post. The A2000 works in my MBP, it is fast and reliable.
MrAverigeUser
macrumors 6502a
owners of desktop hackintoshs and some older MacPros did have problems with NVMe SSDs Under Monterey.
I read that yesterday in a thread here on MacRumors.
since the (intense) discussion was between experts and I am definitely NOT at all it was anything else but easy for me to follow - but I try to write it in my simple words what I think to have understood as bottom line:
Evidently there are some NVMe controllers that do react very sensible if there is not stable electric current . Since they did the conclusion that laptops do NOT have these problems because the batteries provide stable voltage I stopped reading until the very end of the thread because I use nothing but MBP at the moment.
But if you have a end_of_life battery it might be good to get a new one… perhaps.
95% of the discussion was about the newer NVMe controllers that might be prone to failure because of suboptimal programmation OR a problem of OS. But most of the experts there thought it is a problem of the NVMe controller.
starting point of the discussion (and the thread) was that after some time of use the machines needed more and more time from beep to readiness, often enough 5 min and more. Some of the SSD went useless and ended as garbage….
I have no idea if this has something to do with problems mentioned here but I wanted to just mention it since it is a problem linked to NVMe itself…
As for your question about good running SSD under Monterey for your MBP 15“ 2015:
I have two of them, one runs like a charm since (only) 3 weeks (Sinatech long Adapter with Samsung 970 EVO plus) and in the next days I will upgrade another one.
some pages ago someone else posted as well successful installation of the same MBP, same Adapter and same SSD.
My 2 SSD were delivered with the „old“ Phoenix controller, BTW. Look at my posting with attachments .
cheers
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Silencio
macrumors 68040
I actually have to jog my memory to try to remember when the Loss of MMIO spaces kernel panics started on my 2015 rMBP. I upgraded it to Monterey and ran with that for a couple of weeks, then I got a new battery from OWC and attempted to install it, but it was DOA and I had to put the original, swollen battery back in temporarily. This may have been when the kernel panic trouble started. OWC replaced the defective NewerTech battery, I installed it last night and confirmed it to be working, so now we'll see if system stability is reattained.