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Video of Windows XP Booting on iMac
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johnadurcan said:
this is not a compatibility mode. This is a completely independent OS environment that gets loaded through a virtual BIOS. Many softwares will never be ported to OS X, so being able to run Windows gives people flexibility in terms of what software they want to run. For some people, OS X will never completely replace Windows.
I see many complain about the possibility of running windows on an imac.. They go like -oh my god, there goes apple's tradition in safe computing!
Well, many things to that. From having the possibility to doing it there's a world. If this user opens a gate to windows on a mac, that doesn't mean you and every apple user in this world have no choice but surrendering to his method. It's called free willing i think - to have the options and to choose your steps.
More, think of a shared computer... Am i the only one who has a family?
-- I'm studying industrial design. I received my mac this saturday. whenever i'll need use of autocad or 3ds max i'll have to go to my brother's pc, drag him out of his desk & sit for hours and hours working with it. what if i could have the same apps in MY machine, get the power of a dual proccessor.. anyone following my point or i'm misscarried?
Anyway, sorry if there's something wrong with my english - im spanish. And don't fear for security.. Anyone capable of getting windows on his mac, i think will be aware of what he'll get (side effects included).
Well, many things to that. From having the possibility to doing it there's a world. If this user opens a gate to windows on a mac, that doesn't mean you and every apple user in this world have no choice but surrendering to his method. It's called free willing i think - to have the options and to choose your steps.
More, think of a shared computer... Am i the only one who has a family?
-- I'm studying industrial design. I received my mac this saturday. whenever i'll need use of autocad or 3ds max i'll have to go to my brother's pc, drag him out of his desk & sit for hours and hours working with it. what if i could have the same apps in MY machine, get the power of a dual proccessor.. anyone following my point or i'm misscarried?
Anyway, sorry if there's something wrong with my english - im spanish. And don't fear for security.. Anyone capable of getting windows on his mac, i think will be aware of what he'll get (side effects included).
robertmorris2 said:
Many people do not want a Windows machine, they just need the Windows OS to run an applicaiton or two. Why should they shell out hundreds of dollars for a complete system, comprised of (in some cases) inferior hardware just so they can run 1 or 2 apps which they cannot use in OS X?
As an extreme example, should I buy a $400 Dell just so I can play on PokerStars.com?
~Shard~ said:should I buy a $400 Dell just so I can play on PokerStars.com?
In that one extreme situation Shard, I'd say "Yes, dood... go for it!"
This whole thing has "excuse for me to buy a new intel powermac" written all over it. I'm thrilled.
Lastly, it strikes me as funny.. I'm certain the actual Apple programmers have this figured out already and they're just sitting back in the labs, watching it all unfold and laughing at us mere humans.
Re:fake
I may have been wrong on my previous post, But i still stand by my claim that the video is a fake and is running in Virtual PC, i still think that the mouse looks wrong for the screen's they where on, it looks too small, and i find it very convenient that the camera guy could not use a tripod or get the focus right.
I may have been wrong on my previous post,
But i still stand by my claim that the video is a fake and is running in Virtual PC, i still think that the mouse looks wrong for the screen's they where on, it looks too small, and i find it very convenient that the camera guy could not use a tripod or get the focus right.
if i have $3000 bucks to spend
would i rather have two $1500 desktops one Mac one PC
or one $3000 desktop thats much faster that can dual boot
just having the option of dual booting for some people means that the extra price for a Mac has just disappeared. because its now cheaper then having two seperate machines
would i rather have two $1500 desktops one Mac one PC
or one $3000 desktop thats much faster that can dual boot
just having the option of dual booting for some people means that the extra price for a Mac has just disappeared. because its now cheaper then having two seperate machines
cr2sh said:
But that would cut into my profits!
cr2sh said:
Yeah, that's what scares me - now I'm going to be tempted to buy a new Mac sooner than I was initially planning on...
DOUGHNUT said:
LOL! If you read the post, you would see that I am talking about iEmulator in mac os x and dropping into the real mode (virtual BIOS as you call it) that is infact a BCM (Bios Compatibility Module) for the EFI Boot Loader, which is exactly what people used to do when Win95 first came about. Anyone else remember? If you do, you'll also remember that Lotus lost a lot of market share by not transitioning early and MS got a head start - that's a whole other story.
I have to support windows users so I need to run windows from time to time and I won't be switching to an intel mac until a descent PC emulator is available for Mac OS X (iEmulator isn't it yet) but I'd also like to dump into windows real mode to run a game or to which is something I can't do at the moment on my mac.
I personally take with a grain of salt. I noticed a number of things that, while do show that XP is bootable, there remains the fact, that is OS X bootable still?
First of all, the author of the video didn't show a cold boot from a shut down computer (though he did boot from a "suspended" system, if anyone noticed the white led in the front).
It's been said that Mac OS X and XP have a hard time living together on a single hard drive (proven on the Developer's system) and need a special bootloader to choose between which OS to start (not through the standard XP bootloader or OS X).
This could be a mod of the EFI firmware, using an open source bios (bochs comes to mind) and some how making it visible for Windows XP. That's all OK and such, but what does it do to Mac OS X? Accessing EFI on a iMac usually incurs alot of trouble and can make it hard to get OS X to boot again, but having to go into EFI each time the computer boots to switch OS is a hassle, that or pulling out an install DVD of OS X to switch boot drive...
Though this is speculation, I was thinking on ways that Apple would possibly stop the piratization of OS X on generic PC's. Well, with MS's news of not supporting EFI in Vista, thus up until they do, that means no motherboards for the general public with EFI on them. That would be the major and only difference that Apple could play on. The original Pentium 4 developer's systems are going to be taken back soon, considering the proliferation of Intel Macs currently. That would eliminate the only Macs that use BIOS. So, Apple just has to eliminate any support of bios from their kernel (I know it's open source, but they do decide what goes in the public versions of OS X).
That would automatically make most PC's unable to run OS X natively and also, if this hack uses a bios immage to help boot Microsoft Windows AND OS X, completely bypassing EFI for both operating systems. It could mean that this solution could last for only a couple months at most.
First of all, the author of the video didn't show a cold boot from a shut down computer (though he did boot from a "suspended" system, if anyone noticed the white led in the front).
It's been said that Mac OS X and XP have a hard time living together on a single hard drive (proven on the Developer's system) and need a special bootloader to choose between which OS to start (not through the standard XP bootloader or OS X).
This could be a mod of the EFI firmware, using an open source bios (bochs comes to mind) and some how making it visible for Windows XP. That's all OK and such, but what does it do to Mac OS X? Accessing EFI on a iMac usually incurs alot of trouble and can make it hard to get OS X to boot again, but having to go into EFI each time the computer boots to switch OS is a hassle, that or pulling out an install DVD of OS X to switch boot drive...
Though this is speculation, I was thinking on ways that Apple would possibly stop the piratization of OS X on generic PC's. Well, with MS's news of not supporting EFI in Vista, thus up until they do, that means no motherboards for the general public with EFI on them. That would be the major and only difference that Apple could play on. The original Pentium 4 developer's systems are going to be taken back soon, considering the proliferation of Intel Macs currently. That would eliminate the only Macs that use BIOS. So, Apple just has to eliminate any support of bios from their kernel (I know it's open source, but they do decide what goes in the public versions of OS X).
That would automatically make most PC's unable to run OS X natively and also, if this hack uses a bios immage to help boot Microsoft Windows AND OS X, completely bypassing EFI for both operating systems. It could mean that this solution could last for only a couple months at most.
cr2sh said:
Not only that, they're probably already dual booting, the b*stards.
If this pans out we can finally put a stop to the countless irritating "will Counterstrike ever run on the Mac?" threads.
milo said:
he actually said "Macs have *always* been able to boot Linux." Notice the "boot." I dont believe he was in any way saying OSX ran ontop of Linux.
Not quite convinced, sorry to say.
If I were the one to video the first Mac to boot Windows XP natively, I'll pretty much make sure the people watching it are absolutely convinced! So, if you zoom in on the processor info, make sure it is readable.... can't be that much of a problem....
These guys are pretty much doing their best not to be very assuring.
BTW... about Windows gaming on an Intel Mac.
OK, assuming XP does run, is the grfx card 100% supported? No Mac-ROM code on it? What about sound? It wouldn't surprize me that DirectX isn't supported.
Don't get too over excited that an iMac Intel could run Half Life 2.
EDIT: good to see the ol' Blackie-'tar back, Lord Blackadder
If I were the one to video the first Mac to boot Windows XP natively, I'll pretty much make sure the people watching it are absolutely convinced! So, if you zoom in on the processor info, make sure it is readable.... can't be that much of a problem....
These guys are pretty much doing their best not to be very assuring.
BTW... about Windows gaming on an Intel Mac.
OK, assuming XP does run, is the grfx card 100% supported? No Mac-ROM code on it? What about sound? It wouldn't surprize me that DirectX isn't supported.
Don't get too over excited that an iMac Intel could run Half Life 2.
EDIT: good to see the ol' Blackie-'tar back, Lord Blackadder
macb said:
Unfortunately, you're right. We're hovering around #2 right now.
I never thought I'd see Mac fans celebrating with bated breath something that could be the beginning of the end for Apple. As plainly put by macb, how can this be a good thing long-term? What happens when everyone starts doing this, and the big software guys decide to go Windows-only? After all, Macs can run Windows apps now.
This Intel thing is a turning point for Apple. Five years from now, either Apple will be more popular than ever before, or more irrelevant than ever before.
There are definitely a lot of potential problems with this - and we still have yet to see how Microsoft will respond. If history is any guide they will break the hack through patches and ensure that Vista is full of "features" that will make such a hack impossible with that OS.
The video does have the air of a prank about it. I initially dismissed this all as a fake, and though I'm a little less sure now I think it's time that they either 'fess up or provide the real proof.
The video does have the air of a prank about it. I initially dismissed this all as a fake, and though I'm a little less sure now I think it's time that they either 'fess up or provide the real proof.
i agree that this is an unfortunate and expected result of apple having moved to the intel processor. the vast majority of you applauding this 'breakthrough' haven't provided a reason as to why VPC can't suit your needs other than repeatedly saying that it's not native. IMHO this is a SAD day for mac owners and people who believe in and have stood by this company.
to the clowns responsible for this hack - all you've done is succeeded in running a craptacular, problem-laden OS on a modified intel MB. big deal. this is comparable to giving a genius Down's. you aren't making anything better - you are making things worse. you are going to be responsible (in whole or in part - a BIG part) for dragging this company and what they are trying to do down the the winblows level. sigh...
to the clowns responsible for this hack - all you've done is succeeded in running a craptacular, problem-laden OS on a modified intel MB. big deal. this is comparable to giving a genius Down's. you aren't making anything better - you are making things worse. you are going to be responsible (in whole or in part - a BIG part) for dragging this company and what they are trying to do down the the winblows level. sigh...
It is being fessed up. The contest initiator and 9 other people (3 Macbook Pros, 3 iMacs, 3 Minis) are testing at the moment. We'll know later tonight/tomorrow how it went for them. Who knows if this will be easy to do / restore or now.Lord Blackadder said:
Bishop604 said:I may have been wrong on my previous post,
I don't know what gives with the camera work. Maybe those guys can buy themselves a tripod or at least take a class or something
with the ~13K they win.What they've done has been submitted to the contest site for independent review, so we'll know soon enough if this is real or not.
Don't take this the wrong way, but I'm hoping you were entirely wrong on your previous post. I sure hope you like crow, 'cause you're about to eat a health serving...
(Well one of us is, anyway...)
well from my prospective whether images are faked or video is to shakey just look at the fuss this thing is causing i mean for years we have been able to boot os 1 boot up os 2 boot up os 3 On pcs why shouldnt we be able to boot up os 4 on a mac the option should be there.... I know a bit about bios been using it for years efi or what ever its called iam not famliar with but what i see here is a sign of the future told bill will be the only one rubbing his hands here YAHOOO all those mac fans that want to run windows only apps need my OS and low and beyhold they can now run my os on a mac w00t ...
Well thats my 2 pence worth
Well thats my 2 pence worth
Lord Blackadder said:
This may be very hard for them to stop long term. I can't speak to this solution, but the BAMBIOS CSM solution isnt a hack at all. Its just completing the compatibility layer Apple didnt include. To the OS, it appears as a *Legacy* BIOS. this would be very difficult for MS to feature proof without cutting off support for all of the Xen installs out there and possibly others.
Hyde said:
First your comments... its amazing to me that you refer to "dragging down to winblows level" but your advice to Mac owners is "Just use VPC." You're recommending a Microsoft product so that we don't have to use a Microsft product.
Lastly, the part where you insult the clowns that have accomplished this... you seem to not have been following this entire saga. They've accomplished something that last week Experts were claiming would be impossible because of EFI. So at the very least, you have to give them credit for providing something that a lot of folks desire.
Or is there more to this religious debate?
Lastly I'll point it out one last time... that Mac you're so concerned about: IS A COMPUTER. I purchased to aid me in work and accomplish tasks... why does it matter if it runs two OS's?