Waiting for Haswell MBP Mega Thread

[Crzyrio]

I just got a 802.11ac router in December. I'm addicted to high bandwidth too.

The PCIe SSD should raise read/write from about 500Mb-480Mb/s to 900Mb-1.3Gb/s depending on what SSD they use specifically. I doubt we will be able to "feel" the difference in the SSD but I like that things are moving forward.

In general the new rMBP will be souped up in a lot of ways. Processor, Storage, Networking and maybe we'll see some other surprises like all day battery life. The wait continues!

PCIe SSD + Wifi Ac means mac to mac transfers will fly by. Not to mention iPhone 5s wifi syncing as well.

Now if only my internet provider would catch up.

 

[devilcm3]

PCIe SSD + Wifi Ac means mac to mac transfers will fly by. Not to mention iPhone 5s wifi syncing as well.

Now if only my internet provider would catch up.

nah .... iPhone uses single antenna 802.11n ... thats equal to 150Mbps theoretical max ... no benefit at all ....

the only benefit i could think about from using AC is that, if you have seriously powerful internet connection ( 1Gig FiOS ) ...
or
seriously powerful NAS / Server which costs $1k+ that can maximize the AC bandwidth.

 

[mneblett]

the only benefit i could think about from using AC is that, ...

Any real-world benefit from ac to MBP-to-Time Capsule updates, or are they limited by the TC's USB 2.0 port?

 

[ataq]

There is a very interesting for the Iris Pro 5200 on a german blog. Use the google translator.

http://www.computerbase.de/artikel/grafikkarten/2013/intel-iris-pro-5200-grafik-im-test/

 

[Crzyrio]

nah .... iPhone uses single antenna 802.11n ... thats equal to 150Mbps theoretical max ... no benefit at all ....

the only benefit i could think about from using AC is that, if you have seriously powerful internet connection ( 1Gig FiOS ) ...
or
seriously powerful NAS / Server which costs $1k+ that can maximize the AC bandwidth.

Look carefully I said 5s which will presumably have WiFi ac. The s4 supports speeds upto 300+ Mb/s which is still double from the current

Also I think you missed something with that last statement.

Currently WiFi n is not able to fully utilize even a 1 HDD bay NAS at full speed. Heck with a/b... NAS is just not use able.

WiFi ac speeds will make it a regular one bay NAS useable over WiFi. If you do not see this I can break down the speed comparison for you

Keep in mind a good mechanical HD, can reach read/write rates of approximately 100MB/s which translates to 800Mb/s

 

[devilcm3]

Look carefully I said 5s which will presumably have WiFi ac. The s4 supports speeds upto 300+ Mb/s which is still double from the current

Also I think you missed something with that last statement.

Currently WiFi n is not able to fully utilize even a 1 HDD bay NAS at full speed. Heck with a/b... NAS is just not use able.

WiFi ac speeds will make it a regular one bay NAS useable over WiFi. If you do not see this I can break down the speed comparison for you

Keep in mind a good mechanical HD, can reach read/write rates of approximately 100MB/s which translates to 800Mb/s

well, you're right about the 5s.

but you're absolutely wrong on the NAS.
NAS does not transfer as fast as the HDD due to lots of overhead ( read OSI model ).
here's a lazy man's chart for your reference.
http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/nas/nas-charts/view

the fastest NAS on the list, is roughly 1.5x faster than a single HDD speed ( 70~80MB/s).
and it costs as much as a whole rMBP,
http://smallnetbuilder.pricegrabber.com/search_getprod.php/masterid=904058733/

and a single-bay NAS, trust me ... it is more than enough using 802.11n

and Thanks For The Bold, bits and bytes are networking 101 ..... i've learned that years ago

 

[BASTI51]

There is a very interesting for the Iris Pro 5200 on a german blog. Use the google translator.

http://www.computerbase.de/artikel/grafikkarten/2013/intel-iris-pro-5200-grafik-im-test/

Cliffs:

-i7-4700HQ + GT 750M in games only on average 25% faster than a i7-4750HQ + Iris Pro 5200
-Iris Pro beats all in GPU-Computing and Video-Transcoding
-Around the same power consumption in idle and in use :O

 

[lord patton]

Just joined the waiting game. The 6 y/o spilled (dumped) water on my wife's 4 y/o White unibody. Luckily, I had a laptop rider on my home-owners insurance, and I was able to convince my insurer that there was no reason to spend $755 to repair an old machine. They agreed, and cut me a check for $1200+tax with which to replace it. HA!

But, it's going to be hell convincing the wife to wait. She wants a 13" rMBP, and I can't pull the trigger on that now. Of course, the battery life, faster SSD, faster WiFi, faster processor are all welcome. But mostly, since we'd like this machine to last 4-5 years, I'm looking for:

1) cheaper upgrade options to larger capacity storage (figure the jump to 512 should be $300 instead of the current $500.
2) option for 16 GB RAM
3) more robust graphics capability (the 4000 is barely capable, IMO).

Nothing y'all don't know, already. Just hoping to see some SKUs from 9to5Mac on Monday, right?!

 

[Crzyrio]

well, you're right about the 5s.

but you're absolutely wrong on the NAS.
NAS does not transfer as fast as the HDD due to lots of overhead ( read OSI model ).
here's a lazy man's chart for your reference.
http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/nas/nas-charts/view

the fastest NAS on the list, is roughly 1.5x faster than a single HDD speed ( 70~80MB/s).
and it costs as much as a whole rMBP,
http://smallnetbuilder.pricegrabber.com/search_getprod.php/masterid=904058733/

and a single-bay NAS, trust me ... it is more than enough using 802.11n

and Thanks For The Bold, bits and bytes are networking 101 ..... i've learned that years ago

I have a Synology 2 Bay NAS and it easily reaches 60-70MB/s through Ethernet, but barely makes 30MB/s over WiFi. You have to consider that with WiFi your real world speed is close to half the theoretical. So with n you are getting 20-30 MB/s and unless you sitting beside your router no more.

So now if my router and MBP have WiFi AC, I am pretty sure I will be able to hit the max of 70 MB/s with the theoretical max of WiFi ac right now being 130MB/s. I spent approximately 350$ for my NAS and it is most definitely not a High end one.

 

[jafingi]

There is a very interesting for the Iris Pro 5200 on a german blog. Use the google translator.

http://www.computerbase.de/artikel/grafikkarten/2013/intel-iris-pro-5200-grafik-im-test/

So, Iris Pro is on par with GT 750M in Crysis 3, and performs a little worse in other games.

However, Iris Pro shows its advantages in GPU computing. Seriously, check this:

CLBenchmark (OpenCL performance): (higher is better)
Physics:
Iris Pro: 3277
750M: 2378

Graphics:
Iris Pro: 56516
750M: 35608

The other CLBenchmark tests, Iris Pro and 750M is almost on par.

Folding@Home is iris 0.2 behind 750M.

In Rightware Base Mark CL, Iris Pro is much much better than 750M. Video encoding is also better, and WebGL benchmarks says it all:

Iris Pro: 118
750M: 76,8

 

[devilcm3]

So, Iris Pro is on par with GT 750M in Crysis 3, and performs a little worse in other games.

However, Iris Pro shows its advantages in GPU computing. Seriously, check this:

CLBenchmark (OpenCL performance): (higher is better)
Physics:
Iris Pro: 3277
750M: 2378

Graphics:
Iris Pro: 56516
750M: 35608

The other CLBenchmark tests, Iris Pro and 750M is almost on par.

Folding@Home is iris 0.2 behind 750M.

In Rightware Base Mark CL, Iris Pro is much much better than 750M. Video encoding is also better, and WebGL benchmarks says it all:

Iris Pro: 118
750M: 76,8

Interesting, they tested in on a 1366x768 res?
they should do it on higher res then we'll see how 750M beat the crap out of HD5200s 128MB eDRAM

 

[john123]

I have some empathy for you because it seems you have been criticized a lot in your upbringing. It is never late to break the chain and free yourself from negativity...

----------

Really? Lets look at the latest releases...

Mountain Lion: Lots of issues until 10.8.3... 8months
rMBP: Screen ghosting issue, noisey fans... 4 months before
MBA 2013: Wifi, screen flickering... 1.5 months

So as you can imagine it's a guess...

New cooling, new mobo, new Haswell SoC, new OS... go ahead be my guinea pig...

None of these little issues are showstoppers. I've purchased, with I believe only 2 exceptions, a new MacBook Pro or PowerBook with every single new release since 1999. In that time of owning something like 20 Macs, I've never felt like a guinea pig. The complaints and criticisms are always overblown.

----------

Why are you attacking people in this thread man, maybe you should leave.

He's still mad at me for, back on page 107 of this thread, saying that the following was just idle conjecture:

I think the release date is October stop Sorry to spoil the party stop Proceed to clear Apple overstock stop

 

[Narcaz]

http://www.computerbase.de/artikel/grafikkarten/2013/intel-iris-pro-5200-grafik-im-test/

They write in their summary, that the Iris Pro Graphics HD 5200 has better performance than a GeForce GT 730M but lower than a GT 740M. Futhermore a 750m is 25% faster (in general), but in some games 60% faster. This could increase with higher resolutions. Intel plans to release a new driver only every 3 months.

I hope Apple chooses the 4600+750m combination. Better drivers, in general better performance and possibly cheaper. Heat and power consumtion are not that much higher than a Iris 5200 pro.

 

[AppleChampagne]

Really? Lets look at the latest releases...

Mountain Lion: Lots of issues until 10.8.3... 8months
rMBP: Screen ghosting issue, noisey fans... 4 months before
MBA 2013: Wifi, screen flickering... 1.5 months

So as you can imagine it's a guess...

New cooling, new mobo, new Haswell SoC, new OS... go ahead be my guinea pig...

People in this thread are a joke

Try going back to the science and stop the one upmanship, it's kinda sad... Saying to your peers that they are your guinea pig is downright disrespectful and has lost you any respect on this forum..

AC

 

[bill-p]

N=2 constitutes a pattern? Centuries of modern statistics begs to differ.

Let's look at some earlier generations then?

Early 2011 MBP 15"

Low-end: 2.0GHz Intel Core i7 2635QM
Mid-end: 2.2GHz Intel Core i7 2720QM
High-end (BTO only): 2.3GHz Intel Core i7 2820QM

Late 2011 MBP 15"

Low-end: 2.2GHz Intel Core i7 2675QM
Mid-end: 2.4GHz Intel Core i7 2760QM
High-end (BTO only): 2.5GHz Intel Core i7 2860QM

Apple has done this 4 times already (Early 2011, Late 2011, Mid 2012, Early 2013) ever since they moved to quad-core for the 15" line. What makes you think it's not a pattern?

While brushing up on statistics, you might want to add Logic 101 to the queue. Hint: Intel has many customers.

I reckon you just can't accept the truth yet.

But that doesn't make it any less true.

If you insist that it's not the truth, then please kindly explain what's stopping Intel from making more than 3 processors with Iris Pro?

And you're "forgetting" (aka blissfully unaware of) how massive these factories can ramp up production.

And I guess you're "forgetting" the fact that Apple did experience volume shortages and delays before?

Prime example: the very recent redesigned 27" iMac took months to come out.

Please leave matters of operations to those of us who specialize in that field. Thanks.

I guess you are the only expert in the room then. Could you please tell us when you think Apple will release their Haswell update for the Retina MacBook line then?

 

[AppleChampagne]

Like you I want the latest and greatest, and since I'm in the Mac forum I don't mind paying for good workmanship.

Me:

1. I'm not a gamer (anymore)
2. I use VM's a lot
3. I use Photoshop, Premiere and Lightroom
4. I need (want) the fastest cpu + gpu, most mem, biggest SSD, best screen money can buy... so I want the 15" rMBP (ME665A/X)

What do we know:
1.- Haswell is %10 faster clock for clock, but generates ~15% more heat.
2.- Iris is 40%~75% the performance of 650m
3.- Haswell + Iris will give you ~15% better battery and ~50% if you're using the dGPU.
4.- New products usually have issues, and they don't get resolved for 1-4 months.
5.- There's a dearth of Haswell laptops... MBA and very, very few Windows machines.
6.- The Haswell's around are clocked lower but offer the ~ same performance.

What's up for debate:
1.- There will probably be a refresh quite soon (December) as manufacturing lines improve yields and process.
2.- There's quite a high probability Apple will opt for iGPU in the rMBP's it's easier, cheaper, more elegant solution, with significant battery saving and in most cases offers better performance just bcos of the iGPU dGPU switching.
3.- PCIe SSD... this on paper blows everything away... but in real life testing only seems to speed up IO by 10%. This is my most wanted feature.
4.- Since there are SO few haswell's out there any Apple seems to already have the most... I really doubt they'll be releasing anything until some competition arrives. The competition is trickle feeding in, and will start ramping up towards August > Sep... so I think October will be the date for new rMBP + Mavericks.
5.- 802.11ac is another nice to have.

So bottom line:
1.- We'll have to wait for October before we can buy.
2.- We'll have to wait for December before we can buy stable system.
3.- For the wait we can expect the same CPU performance.
Less max GPU performance, more everyday GPU performance.
10% better IO.
50% faster WiFi.


There's always something better coming.
Early adopters often pay for their impatience.


What's it going to be?

The way I see it:
Best to wait until December-February, or already bought.

You are just pathetic... Disrespecting new buyers because you have an older machine...

Sad... People like you give this forum a bad name,

AC

 

[mneblett]

You are just pathetic... Disrespecting new buyers because you have an older machine...

Sad... People like you give this forum a bad name,

AC

WhereTF did this come from?? He only stated his needs, commented on likely scenarios, and stated the obvious -- some are willing to take their chances with new hardware, and some don't want to be beta-testers.

There is ZERO disrepect of anyone in that post.

You can turn off your thread-nanny function now.

 

[ajumbaje]

hoping for something before end of august(school reasons) and something with wifi ac, cheaper storage upgrade options(would like at least 768). dedicated gpu, and possible upgrade to 32gb ram.

Basically something that I dont have to worry replacing for 5-6 years.

 

[rajat123]

Buy or Wait

I need a new laptop and was looking at macbook pro on sale at best buy ($900 with edu) so is that a good deal or should I wait for the new ones to come out?

 

[Lunfai]

I need a new laptop and was looking at macbook pro on sale at best buy ($900 with edu) so is that a good deal or should I wait for the new ones to come out?

If you want to buy it now buy it now, if you can wait, then wait. We don't know when it's coming out. No one does.

 

[AppleChampagne]

WhereTF did this come from?? He only stated his needs, commented on likely scenarios, and stated the obvious -- some are willing to take their chances with new hardware, and some don't want to be beta-testers.

There is ZERO disrepect of anyone in that post.

You can turn off your thread-nanny function now.

The disrespect was in his underlying tones, I think we all can see what he was trying to put across...

Who is nannying? Think you should take your own advice! This thread is descending into farce...

AC

 

[mneblett]

The disrespect was in his underlying tones, I think we all can see what he was trying to put across...

Who is nannying? Think you should take your own advice! This thread is descending into farce...

AC

 

[Covert-Panda]

I need a new laptop and was looking at macbook pro on sale at best buy ($900 with edu) so is that a good deal or should I wait for the new ones to come out?

No one knows the official specs and when it's coming out for sure, So you have to decide for yourself if waiting is right for you. But if it were me I would at least wait till the end of July because you will have the apple education price if it comes out before September. The updated MBP should have quite abit better graphics and battery so it might be worth it to wait.

 

[john123]

Let's look at some earlier generations then?
...
Apple has done this 4 times already (Early 2011, Late 2011, Mid 2012, Early 2013) ever since they moved to quad-core for the 15" line. What makes you think it's not a pattern?

N=4 is, similarly, never going to be statistically significant. But that's beside the point. Your line of reasoning has the tail wagging the dog. When 3+ chips are available, then 3+ lineups can be offered. The reverse, however, is not true. It isn't the case that Apple says to Intel, "We want to have 3 models, so you need to fab 3 chips."

If existing sales are stalling, waiting several months to introduce new models simply because a low-end processor speed is unavailable may not make profit maximizing sense. And that's exactly the ridiculous idea that you proposed--that because there have been 3 speeds, there will be 3 speeds, even if that means delaying the entire product line. It's just silly.

I reckon you just can't accept the truth yet.

But that doesn't make it any less true.

Are you seriously suggesting that your conjecture is tantamount to "truth"? Oh boy.

If you insist that it's not the truth, then please kindly explain what's stopping Intel from making more than 3 processors with Iris Pro?

I'd be happy to, and I'm glad you asked. For starters, it ain't Apple. The answer, in case you're curious about the truth, is yields. Are you aware that in the chip fab process, it's easier to make slower chips? Fewer chips can come off the line suited for higher processor speeds. Trying to couple an expensive GPU on top of higher speed chips would lead to more garbage and would seriously inflate the cost. This is why the Iris Pro 5200 "high-end" of 2.4Ghz is noticeably slower than Haswell's top end of 3.0Ghz. And it already costs a staggering $657 each, and has a nearly $200 price premium over its 2.2Ghz counterpart.

And I guess you're "forgetting" the fact that Apple did experience volume shortages and delays before?

Prime example: the very recent redesigned 27" iMac took months to come out.

I already addressed why this situation is not analogous to those previous ones. Other than some possible contention for Haswell chips, the supply chain for this update is in good shape. Why? Because this is an incremental upgrade. I highlighted the key word here for emphasis; there is no redesign in this case. And I also addressed on the Haswell side how Apple has often been given precedence by Intel for new releases, so even that may not be as much of an issue. The fact that you can already buy Haswell laptops from several manufacturers (e.g., Dell) bolsters my point.

I guess you are the only expert in the room then. Could you please tell us when you think Apple will release their Haswell update for the Retina MacBook line then?

Nope, despite being extremely well versed, I certainly can't. And that's the point--which you have unfortunately been missing all along. What I do know is that that timing has an awful lot to do with product release cycles, existing sales, marketing, and other factors completely exogenous to production.

You're stuck convincing yourself of some narrative about how some past trends cannot be changed, both in terms of models offered and production delays. You would be well served to consider how the current situation may not parallel the past, and to recognize that Apple has quite a bit of autonomy in decision making. Its hands are not tied. Like most businesses, when a company has autonomy, it will choose the profit-maximizing path. Neither you nor I (nor anyone else in this thread for that matter) has sufficient knowledge of the sales numbers, forecasts, and related factors to know how that will play out. Next week's earnings call may be somewhat elucidating.

 

[ValSalva]

Nothing y'all don't know, already. Just hoping to see some SKUs from 9to5Mac on Monday, right?!

Right. That would be a nice summer surprise