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Waiting for Haswell MBP Mega Thread

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Is it still too early for predictions?

I may be wrong about pricing.
Thunderbolt 2 is not ready until next year.

13" rMBP - all .71 inch, PCIe SSD, 802.11ac
both will have the option to select the 2.8Ghz i7 - 4558U Iris 5100 for $150
both will have the option to select higher capacity SSD for the price of a leg

$1399
2.4Ghz i5 4258U - Iris 5100 - 8GB RAM - 128GB

$1599
2.6Ghz i5 4288U - Iris 5100 - 8GB RAM - 256GB


15" rMPB - all PCIe SSD, 802.11ac, all quad core
both will have the option to select the 2.4Ghz i7 4950HQ for $200
both will have the option to select higher capacity SSD for the price of an arm


$2099
2.0Ghz i7 4750HQ - Iris Pro 5200 - 8GB RAM - 256GB

$2599
2.3Ghz i7 4850HQ - Iris Pro 5200 - 16GB RAM - 512GB

I am also willing to say that the 15" will come with dGPU. Most likely the 750M card or the equivalent Radeon. I just do not see Apple dropping dGPU. Remember these are PRO machines, and these babies will need to drive the retina display plus potentially 2 extra monitors(dual TB ports remember plus this whole 4K thing) and while Iris 5200 is quite capable, it is just not there yet.
 
Aylan said:
2.4Ghz i5 4258U - Iris 5100 - 8GB RAM - 128GB
Click to expand...

I'm not going to speculate on specific prices, but I would guess that Apple will stop offering 128GB SSDs for the MBP and leave them only for the MBA -- and then only until the next speed bump.
 
Aylan said:
I am also willing to say that the 15" will come with dGPU. Most likely the 750M card or the equivalent Radeon. I just do not see Apple dropping dGPU. Remember these are PRO machines, and these babies will need to drive the retina display plus potentially 2 extra monitors(dual TB ports remember plus this whole 4K thing) and while Iris 5200 is quite capable, it is just not there yet.
Click to expand...

Except the leaked 15" benchmark didn't indicate any dGPU. Plus, Iris Pro + dGPU would probably consume more power than Apple wants. If they do include a dGPU in one of the 15" models, they'll probably use a non-Iris Pro CPU.
 
tmiw said:
Except the leaked 15" benchmark didn't indicate any dGPU. Plus, Iris Pro + dGPU would probably consume more power than Apple wants. If they do include a dGPU in one of the 15" models, they'll probably use a non-Iris Pro CPU.
Click to expand...

I tend not to trust leaks, plus as someone else has mentioned, you can run benchmarks without it checking the dGPU, or it could be a prototype, etc. The current MBP uses a CPU with TDP of 45W. Haswell is using 47W due to Iris Pro but the change should be minimal in regards to power use since Haswell is much more efficient. Also a non-Iris Pro CPU just does not make sense since they are all at 47W anyway, they just have their CPU clocking higher. Remember that the dGPU remains off until it is needed so Apple can still claim better power efficientcy while Iris is in use.
 
Aylan said:
Remember that the dGPU remains off until it is needed so Apple can still claim better power efficientcy while Iris is in use.
Click to expand...


This is very true. Because when apple lays out the battery life for their machines, it is based on "everyday use" of light web browsing and other such activities, with 50% brightness. So I don't know if they've ever really seen the negative effects of having a dGPU in their battery life statistics.
 
Aylan said:
Is it still too early for predictions?

I may be wrong about pricing.
Thunderbolt 2 is not ready until next year.

13" rMBP - all .71 inch, PCIe SSD, 802.11ac
both will have the option to select the 2.8Ghz i7 - 4558U Iris 5100 for $150
both will have the option to select higher capacity SSD for the price of a leg

$1399
2.4Ghz i5 4258U - Iris 5100 - 8GB RAM - 128GB

$1599
2.6Ghz i5 4288U - Iris 5100 - 8GB RAM - 256GB


15" rMPB - all PCIe SSD, 802.11ac, all quad core
both will have the option to select the 2.4Ghz i7 4950HQ for $200
both will have the option to select higher capacity SSD for the price of an arm


$2099
2.0Ghz i7 4750HQ - Iris Pro 5200 - 8GB RAM - 256GB

$2599
2.3Ghz i7 4850HQ - Iris Pro 5200 - 16GB RAM - 512GB

I am also willing to say that the 15" will come with dGPU. Most likely the 750M card or the equivalent Radeon. I just do not see Apple dropping dGPU. Remember these are PRO machines, and these babies will need to drive the retina display plus potentially 2 extra monitors(dual TB ports remember plus this whole 4K thing) and while Iris 5200 is quite capable, it is just not there yet.
Click to expand...

Thunderbolt 2 integrated into the CPU is no available until next year but as an independent addon it will be available.

The Mac Pro will be using Thunderbolt 2 and will debut fall, so it is very possible the retina's could have it as well.
 
Crzyrio said:
Thunderbolt 2 integrated into the CPU is no available until next year but as an independent addon it will be available.

The Mac Pro will be using Thunderbolt 2 and will debut fall, so it is very possible the retina's could have it as well.
Click to expand...

As far as everything I've read, Intel has no plans to integrate the Thunderbolt controller into the CPU die, is this what you are referring to?

The new Falcon Ridge TB2 controller will be available in late 2013 and I presume it will be a Mac Pro feature for the time being. There are no 4K displays out there and I do not think a single device on the market saturates a TB bus.

If I was a betting man, I would say that TB2 will make its debut in the MBP on the early 2014 refresh, I do not think that it is the reason for a MBP delay since Apple would have missed a lot of sales in the summer time frame for a technology that most people won't find all that useful until next year.
 
As it most likely that the rMBP won't come out till October, it is possible that they would put in the new 9000 series ATI cards. As they are also rumored to be released in October.

http://www.gamefront.com/amd-radeon-hd9000-october-2013/

A a reason the card did not show up in the leaked benches could be that Apple needed to hide the ATI cards as they are unannounced.
 
There isn't even one leak about AMD cards inside new rMBP, so my guess is only Iris Pro this time. External cards only using Thundebolt when you neeed them (gaming or compute power).
 
cajer said:
As it most likely that the rMBP won't come out till October, it is possible that they would put in the new 9000 series ATI cards. As they are also rumored to be released in October.

http://www.gamefront.com/amd-radeon-hd9000-october-2013/

A a reason the card did not show up in the leaked benches could be that Apple needed to hide the ATI cards as they are unannounced.
Click to expand...

The mobile version for the performance required won't be out until early to mid 2014. It just won't work with Apple's plans. That is why I am thinking it will be a 750M since it is really just a re-badged 650M with some kind of overclock. I still think that Iris will do most of the work while leaving the dGPU to drive external displays, gaming, etc.
 
Aylan said:
Is it still too early for predictions?

I may be wrong about pricing.
Thunderbolt 2 is not ready until next year.

13" rMBP - all .71 inch, PCIe SSD, 802.11ac
both will have the option to select the 2.8Ghz i7 - 4558U Iris 5100 for $150
both will have the option to select higher capacity SSD for the price of a leg

$1399
2.4Ghz i5 4258U - Iris 5100 - 8GB RAM - 128GB

$1599
2.6Ghz i5 4288U - Iris 5100 - 8GB RAM - 256GB


15" rMPB - all PCIe SSD, 802.11ac, all quad core
both will have the option to select the 2.4Ghz i7 4950HQ for $200
both will have the option to select higher capacity SSD for the price of an arm


$2099
2.0Ghz i7 4750HQ - Iris Pro 5200 - 8GB RAM - 256GB

$2599
2.3Ghz i7 4850HQ - Iris Pro 5200 - 16GB RAM - 512GB

I am also willing to say that the 15" will come with dGPU. Most likely the 750M card or the equivalent Radeon. I just do not see Apple dropping dGPU. Remember these are PRO machines, and these babies will need to drive the retina display plus potentially 2 extra monitors(dual TB ports remember plus this whole 4K thing) and while Iris 5200 is quite capable, it is just not there yet.
Click to expand...

Where is the 13" i7 core 2 duo?!
 
cajer said:
As it most likely that the rMBP won't come out till October, it is possible that they would put in the new 9000 series ATI cards. As they are also rumored to be released in October.

http://www.gamefront.com/amd-radeon-hd9000-october-2013/

A a reason the card did not show up in the leaked benches could be that Apple needed to hide the ATI cards as they are unannounced.
Click to expand...

Apple likely hide the dGPU through custom EFI firmware and/or Mac OS X operating system. Knowing Geekbench is only a CPU benchmark application, Apple's main reason to hide the dGPU is to see, verify, and confirm if the crowd would still drink the Kool-Aid even if the dGPU is ditched... Apparently the poll has been positive and very satisfying for Apple... :D
 
Aylan said:
I am also willing to say that the 15" will come with dGPU. Most likely the 750M card or the equivalent Radeon. I just do not see Apple dropping dGPU. Remember these are PRO machines, and these babies will need to drive the retina display plus potentially 2 extra monitors(dual TB ports remember plus this whole 4K thing) and while Iris 5200 is quite capable, it is just not there yet.
Click to expand...

You're ignoring the most important thing: marketing.

I will be utterly shocked if there is a dGPU. I'd even put money on it.
Aylan said:
The mobile version for the performance required won't be out until early to mid 2014. It just won't work with Apple's plans. That is why I am thinking it will be a 750M since it is really just a re-badged 650M with some kind of overclock. I still think that Iris will do most of the work while leaving the dGPU to drive external displays, gaming, etc.
Click to expand...

Do you realize how utterly cost-prohibitive it would be to bundle an Iris 5200 with a dGPU? In addition to it making no sense (the HD 4600 would be the only iGPU to make an iota of sense), it just ain't gonna happen.
----------

sofianito said:
Apple likely hide the dGPU through custom EFI firmware and/or Mac OS X operating system. Knowing Geekbench is only a CPU benchmark application, Apple's main reason to hide the dGPU is to see, verify, and confirm if the crowd would still drink the Kool-Aid even if the dGPU is ditched... Apparently the poll has been positive and very satisfying for Apple... :D
Click to expand...

You love conspiracy theories, don't you?

Jimmy Hoffa is not still alive. The HIV virus wasn't created in a lab. Elvis didn't fake his own death. Lee Harvey Oswald shot JFK, alone (well, probably—I'm less sure on this one). But there was definitely no custom EFI written to throw the rumor community off track.
 
john123 said:
You're ignoring the most important thing: marketing.

I will be utterly shocked if there is a dGPU. I'd even put money on it.
Click to expand...

You're right, Apple's marketing is very effective in getting people to pay their premiums, but, I just do not see how not including a dGPU would help Apple. The rMBP already enjoys health margins and it will not cost them more to continue to support a dGPU. The backlash they would receive for not including a dGPU in their 15" flagship notebook would be worth a lot more to them in lost sales. They will not let their Pro flagship notebook be under-powered. Especially with the Mac Pro getting 2 high end workstation-class GPUs.
 
john123 said:
You love conspiracy theories, don't you?

Jimmy Hoffa is not still alive. The HIV virus wasn't created in a lab. Elvis didn't fake his own death. Lee Harvey Oswald shot JFK, alone (well, probably). But there was definitely no custom EFI written to throw the rumor community off track.
Click to expand...

Lol. Apple's marketing intelligence classified X-Files documents... Who knows... :D
 
Aylan said:
You're right, Apple's marketing is very effective in getting people to pay their premiums, but, I just do not see how not including a dGPU would help Apple. The rMBP already enjoys health margins and it will not cost them more to continue to support a dGPU. The backlash they would receive for not including a dGPU in their 15" flagship notebook would be worth a lot more to them in lost sales. They will not let their Pro flagship notebook be under-powered. Especially with the Mac Pro getting 2 high end workstation-class GPUs.
Click to expand...

Sorry, but you're not being realistic about this. The reasons are endless.

• The "backlash" you're talking about would come from a tiny fraction of the user base. The people who blather on these forums all day—like me and you—are not representative of the user population. Over 90% of computer users make purchases without looking at benchmarks. (Source: multiple studies of consumer purchasing decisions I ran in my last career in market research.)
• Actually, what you proposed would cost Apple more. As I stated above, an Iris 5200 + a dGPU would be cost prohibitive. The 2.4Ghz + 5200 combo costs a whopping $657. And keep in mind that's far away from Haswell's top speed.
• iGPUs are the future for Apple laptops. There's a reason Intel's been throwing ridiculous sums of money into developing this stuff. An integrated platform offers tremendous power savings potential, not to mention better profit and revenue for Intel.
• Apple has not chosen to prioritize graphics power in their laptops. Every generation, you'll find other cards they could have chosen, but didn't for reasons of power consumption. Apple's priority is marketing size, form, and function (i.e., slim and long battery life) above power.
• Note that you won't even find the words "NVIDIA" or "650M" in the text on Apple's current MacBook Pro web page on performance—the very page that specifically talks about graphics. You have to go all the way down to the tiny footnotes.
• We return to marketing, and lo and behold, there are numerous benchmarks where the Iris 5200 beats the 650M. Cherry-picked, sure, but in marketing, that doesn't matter. Being able to show even one pretty bar graph while touting increased batter life is incredibly powerful for marketing.

Seriously, I'd love a dGPU too, but it's not going to happen.
 
john123 said:
Do you realize how utterly cost-prohibitive it would be to bundle an Iris 5200 with a dGPU? In addition to it making no sense, it just ain't gonna happen.
Click to expand...

What makes you think that it is "utterly cross-prohibitive"? All Intel CPUs have integrated graphics. Haswell just happens to have HD5200 instead of last years HD4000. Plus, the pricing for the current i7 in the base rMPB is : $378.00 The pricing for a comparable Haswell rMBP is : $440 with Iris Pro. I suppose if Apple wanted to count its pennies they can use the 4800MQ with HD4600 but I highly doubt Apple will use something inferior to the IGP in the MacBook Air. If your logic were true, Apple would not have used HD5000 on their cheapest notebook while still be able to reduce pricing.
 
Aylan said:
What makes you think that it is "utterly cross-prohibitive"? All Intel CPUs have integrated graphics. Haswell just happens to have HD5200 instead of last years HD4000. Plus, the pricing for the current i7 in the base rMPB is : $378.00 The pricing for a comparable Haswell rMBP is : $440 with Iris Pro. I suppose if Apple wanted to count its pennies they can use the 4800MQ with HD4600 but I highly doubt Apple will use something inferior to the IGP in the MacBook Air. If your logic were true, Apple would not have used HD5000 on their cheapest notebook while still be able to reduce pricing.
Click to expand...

What? No. The current 3635QM is, as you noted, $378.

One Haswell version—the GT3e—has the HD5200. That version is considerably more expensive than the other major (quad core mobile) version—the GT2—which has the HD5100. The 4950HQ (2.4Ghz, 5200) costs $657, while the low-end 4750HQ (2.0Ghz, 5200) costs $440.

$440 takes care of the whole kit-and-kaboodle, and runs $68 more than the current low-end CPU but doesn't necessitate the purchase of a dGPU. Paying more than current prices and then adding on a dGPU would be idiotically stupid. If they wanted to add a dGPU, they'd certainly go with a GT2 option for less cost. Bundling up two fully capable dGPUs would be the epitome of insanity and idiocy, especially given that
(A) the current Retinas do OK in day-to-day stuff with the HD4000, and
(B) the HD4600 benchmarks show a significant improvement from their predecessor

Your whole argument about "inferior" doesn't apply because in your fantasy world, there's still a powerful dGPU. But that is, as I said, a fantasy world. And in the real world, the Air uses the HD5000 and the Pro will in all likelihood use the HD5200. There is no chance—and I mean 0.0000% chance—that you'll see a HD5200+dGPU bundle. Zero.

This is a company whose stock price has been hammered more than anything due to profit margin compression. You're not going to see anyone on the business side over there just give up margin in a Gomer Pyle "aw shucks" moment.
 
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