Waiting for Haswell MBP Mega Thread

[Mr MM]

You're right. So given those, the rMBP base model may stay as the current Ivy Bridge i5 with HD4000 and upper model will be Haswell i7 with HD4600 perhaps?

Or we won't see rMBP 13 upgrades at all at WWDC?

impossible different chipsets that dont support each other, since apple doesnt deal with sockets, its all BGA with them, aka soldered

Yes makes sense, since Haswell will require the logic board to be updated, and Apple will be manufacturing a single platform.

So the picture is getting clearer, we might be looking at a base model with an as yet unannounced i5 Haswell (maybe dual, maybe quad core), and perhaps the upper model is a quad core i7-4702HQ?

Looks like it's becoming evident the rMBP 13 won't be getting Iris though, only HD4600.

I hope the upper model is a 4702, much like I did last year with the 3612qm

you know one thing that I dont like about that rumour of 6 M missing cpus? its engorges the line up quite well, if we get the number of cpus from the M series which is right now 5 (that actually means those guys did the math wrong, and yes I noticed, maybe they were withholding some 2 cpus in there that we didnt knew), lets assume that they know math, this makes the entire haswell line up at 30 cpus, thats almost the entire line up for ivy in its lifetime, and thats just for the launch

Maybe not Iris Pro. But I think the six unnannounced chips will be GT3, which is normal Iris (5000/5100).

We could see an Iris Pro MQ chip, but I wouldn't be shocked if we saw 2 chips that would pack Iris.

47 watt: i5-4XXX-MQ with 5000/5100
37 watt: i5-4XXX-MQ with 5000/5100

Maybe; an i7 with 5000/5100. Not sure. And I'm sure there will be another set of two which will be similar to those but with higher clock frequency. (Likely candidates to be upgrade components).

we mobile never have dealt with 47w i5 cpus.

and I have some good and bad news here

good news:

power gating is more efficient as they said

bad news:

multithreaded cpu performance, consumptions goes up and up a lot

power virus? you shant stand a apple magsafe

this is really troublesome, unless apple designs a new magsafe we are going to be in a pickle here, there isnt enough power to supply for both cpu and gpu. they have delayed this long enough, gives us some 120w psus or even 150w

 

[APPLE-FANATIC]

You are REALLY excited aren't ya

Can you tell? LOL

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Haswell Processor(s) available for purchase!!

http://www.newegg.com/LimitedTimeOf...NEW060213-_-EMC-060213-Index-_-E0A-_-CPU:eek:

Currently showing Desktop processors only

 

[skaertus]

http://9to5mac.com/2013/06/02/wwdc-...macbook-air-microphone-improvements-expected/

Now it's the second time Kuo changes his mind about the release of new laptops in the last few months.

I'm sorry for the folks who want the cMBP to get updated, but everybody should have seen it coming since the release of the rMBP last year. The cMBP is on the path to be discontinued and, as much as I would like Macs to be upgradeable, that's the road Apple is taking.

The 13" rMBP is currently a little bit thicker than the 15" rMBP, and it could get as thin as it. That's probably the small tweak Kuo is referring to.

Now, I don't know the source of this report. It could be just an educated guess as we are currently doing here, in which case Kuo's forecasts are no better than ours. Or he could have some reliable information from the supply chain, which I hope he has.

 

[ValSalva]

Now it's the second time Kuo changes his mind about the release of new laptops in the last few months.

I'm sorry for the folks who want the cMBP to get updated, but everybody should have seen it coming since the release of the rMBP last year. The cMBP is on the path to be discontinued and, as much as I would like Macs to be upgradeable, that's the road Apple is taking.

When the cMBP's didn't get the same processor bumps as the rMBP's did in February that's when the writing was really on the wall regarding Apple's decision to phase them out. I'd be much more surprised if the cMBP's get Haswell than if they don't.

I also don't see Apple lowering the Ivy Bridge cMBP's price either. They want to move everyone over to rMBP's and if they lowered the cMBP's price they would probably outsell rMBP's by a wide margin.

 

[Koulie]

More rumors from Kuo
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1589776/

If this is ends up being true, it most likely means:

• Higher capacity storage options on Macbooks
• Lower prices for rMBP
• Longer battery on Macbooks
• 1080p FaceTime camera on Macbooks

Mrmm I'm liking these speculations.
CPU boost, Storage boost, battery boost, (hopefully better than slight) GPU boost & lower prices!

 

[tgi]

Can you tell? LOL

----------

Haswell Processor(s) available for purchase!!

http://www.newegg.com/LimitedTimeOf...NEW060213-_-EMC-060213-Index-_-E0A-_-CPU:eek:

Currently showing Desktop processors only

Awesome! I really enjoyed the overview video on Newegg. It was good to see them talk about a lot of things I've seen discussed in this thread.

 

[Pentad]

When the cMBP's didn't get the same processor bumps as the rMBP's did in February that's when the writing was really on the wall regarding Apple's decision to phase them out.

I thought this too. The MBP Classics are not the future for Apple or the market. If you look at the history of Apple, they tend to kill things pretty quickly and wait for the rest of the industry to catch up.

I'm not saying they are not useful or that people don't love them. Apple is quick to throw off dying technology and I think the MBP Classic is going to get the axe here.

I was waiting to see what Apple did with the speed bumps so bypassing the MBP Classic spoke volumes.

-P

 

[skaertus]

More rumors from Kuo
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1589776/

If this is ends up being true, it most likely means:

• Higher capacity storage options on Macbooks
• Lower prices for rMBP
• Longer battery on Macbooks
• 1080p FaceTime camera on Macbooks

Mrmm I'm liking these speculations.
CPU boost, Storage boost, battery boost, (hopefully better than slight) GPU boost & lower prices!

No. It means just longer battery and 1080p FaceTime camera. It doesn't mean lower prices nor higher capacity storages. If I were to guess, I would say that prices and capacity storages will remain exactly the same as they are now.

 

[thunng8]

this is really troublesome, unless apple designs a new magsafe we are going to be in a pickle here, there isnt enough power to supply for both cpu and gpu. they have delayed this long enough, gives us some 120w psus or even 150w

Interesting graphs, thanks.

The power number seem awfully high. Any ideas on how these compare to the previous Ivy Bridge chips?

Also, I find it quite disturbing that a supposedly 47W TDP chip can go up >75W in the short term and can sustain 65W.

And the even more concerning are these power figures are do not include use of the graphics processor, they are just for the CPU portion.

That why I'm very skeptical of Intel's TDP figures as it seems in most cases, the actual chip can exceed Intel's stated TDP by large margins.

 

[Koulie]

No. It means just longer battery and 1080p FaceTime camera. It doesn't mean lower prices nor higher capacity storages. If I were to guess, I would say that prices and capacity storages will remain exactly the same as they are now.

Discontinuing the Classics MBP and focusing on SSDs, to me that hints to what I am speculated. Logic behind it is that they'll have a large price discrepancy, as the classic MBP won't be filling the void this time round. This theoretically takes the 'premium' away from the Retina's and makes them the norm. In terms of more SSD capacity, I say that because if they shift to majority SSD laptops, that means it won't be possible to get a 1TB HD, which is possible today with the Classic MBP. That option is crucial to some consumers and is very very achievable by Apple this time round.
It's all speculation at the end of the day though, so meh

 

[Mackan]

this is really troublesome, unless apple designs a new magsafe we are going to be in a pickle here, there isnt enough power to supply for both cpu and gpu. they have delayed this long enough, gives us some 120w psus or even 150w

When the laptop is under load, I believe the current MagSafe has never been enough. It will zip juice from the battery at the same time. That's why your battery drops when gaming, even when you are plugged in.

 

[Mr MM]

Interesting graphs, thanks.

The power number seem awfully high. Any ideas on how these compare to the previous Ivy Bridge chips?

Also, I find it quite disturbing that a supposedly 47W TDP chip can go up >75W in the short term and can sustain 65W.

And the even more concerning are these power figures are do not include use of the graphics processor, they are just for the CPU portion.

That why I'm very skeptical of Intel's TDP figures as it seems in most cases, the actual chip can exceed Intel's stated TDP by large margins.

sure thing

there is nothing to be skeptical about, its simple power consumption != power that needs to be dissipated, if you know that there are no problems with their tdp.

When the laptop is under load, I believe the current MagSafe has never been enough. It will zip juice from the battery at the same time. That's why your battery drops when gaming, even when you are plugged in.

in the end I think I was worried about nothing, its the same thing that we are having already, the magsafe isnt enough, not for the 13, not for the 15

Discontinuing the Classics MBP and focusing on SSDs, to me that hints to what I am speculated. Logic behind it is that they'll have a large price discrepancy, as the classic MBP won't be filling the void this time round. This theoretically takes the 'premium' away from the Retina's and makes them the norm. In terms of more SSD capacity, I say that because if they shift to majority SSD laptops, that means it won't be possible to get a 1TB HD, which is possible today with the Classic MBP. That option is crucial to some consumers and is very very achievable by Apple this time round.
It's all speculation at the end of the day though, so meh

if you are saying economies of scale, I agree with you, and thats why I think they decided on that caddy for the rmbp 13 and to use that in all their lines that used a SSD, except the mac mini and the mac pro

I also think they should go for the NGFF format, its basically the same thing that they have now, with the exception of being a standard, thus decreasing costs.

Though I dont think that we will see a storage increase, a price decrease yes

 

[thundersteele]

Discontinuing the Classics MBP and focusing on SSDs, to me that hints to what I am speculated. Logic behind it is that they'll have a large price discrepancy, as the classic MBP won't be filling the void this time round. This theoretically takes the 'premium' away from the Retina's and makes them the norm. In terms of more SSD capacity, I say that because if they shift to majority SSD laptops, that means it won't be possible to get a 1TB HD, which is possible today with the Classic MBP. That option is crucial to some consumers and is very very achievable by Apple this time round.
It's all speculation at the end of the day though, so meh

You just gave me an idea.

For the 11''-13'' models, there is no price gap... it goes up in small steps from the 11'' air to the 13'' air to the 13'' retina. Dropping the cMBP would however create a large gap between $1.5k and $2.2k.

What if Apple adds a 15'' Air to the lineup... this was expected last year, why not this year. No discrete GPU, 1600x1050 non-retina display, ULV (or dual core) CPU. This should be enough to bring the price to $1.7k or $1.8k. And the new intel integrated GPUs should finally be strong enough to give decent performance even on the larger screen.

 

[Lunfai]

You just gave me an idea.

For the 11''-13'' models, there is no price gap... it goes up in small steps from the 11'' air to the 13'' air to the 13'' retina. Dropping the cMBP would however create a large gap between $1.5k and $2.2k.

What if Apple adds a 15'' Air to the lineup... this was expected last year, why not this year. No discrete GPU, 1600x1050 non-retina display, ULV (or dual core) CPU. This should be enough to bring the price to $1.7k or $1.8k. And the new intel integrated GPUs should finally be strong enough to give decent performance even on the larger screen.

Yes I posted this somewhere else, I'm not sure how likely it is but:

11" Air: 849 13" Air: 999 15" Air: 1149
13" RMBP: 1299 15" RMBP: 1449

or something similar. (UK GBP)

 

[thunng8]

there is nothing to be skeptical about, its simple power consumption != power that needs to be dissipated, if you know that there are no problems with their tdp.

I still don't get it. Power consumption is directly related to power that needs to be dissipated. Or are you saying that if a theoretical processor consumed 100W in power, it would only need to dissipate about 60W (TDP)? Where does other 40W go?

At least for the Macbook Pro, there used to be a direct correlation between TDP of the chip used and the power consumed by that chip. For example, the circa 2010 Core i7 2.66Ghz had a TDP of 35W and under heavy load, the CPU would use about 35W in power. Now we are seeing Haswell having a TDP of 47W and under heavy load, it can use almost double that amount.

 

[Lamb22erth]

I just like reading up on these things.

 

[ABSjazz]

I still don't get it. Power consumption is directly related to power that needs to be dissipated. Or are you saying that if a theoretical processor consumed 100W in power, it would only need to dissipate about 60W (TDP)? Where does other 40W go?

At least for the Macbook Pro, there used to be a direct correlation between TDP of the chip used and the power consumed by that chip. For example, the circa 2010 Core i7 2.66Ghz had a TDP of 35W and under heavy load, the CPU would use about 35W in power. Now we are seeing Haswell having a TDP of 47W and under heavy load, it can use almost double that amount.

This video is very informative when it comes to Haswell TDP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylNT1Co-Q6k

Basically, they shifted some tasks from the logic/mother board to the processor itself. So there's less power from the motherboard and more on the processor than before. But overall, it is the same or less.

(I'm not a computer/processor wizard by any means, just [poorly] summarizing what the Intel rep explains in the video.)

 

[Mr MM]

I still don't get it. Power consumption is directly related to power that needs to be dissipated. Or are you saying that if a theoretical processor consumed 100W in power, it would only need to dissipate about 60W (TDP)? Where does other 40W go?

At least for the Macbook Pro, there used to be a direct correlation between TDP of the chip used and the power consumed by that chip. For example, the circa 2010 Core i7 2.66Ghz had a TDP of 35W and under heavy load, the CPU would use about 35W in power. Now we are seeing Haswell having a TDP of 47W and under heavy load, it can use almost double that amount.

tdp is not the same thing as power consumption, it never was for intel, it was only valid for nvidia and they dropped it this year

they may or may not be the same, its an actual coincidence. Specially with turbo boost

it was never a linear graph, higher performance = higher consumption

for example, if you get the rmbp 15 with the base OEM cpu, it wont throttle, if you get other non oem cpus, 3700 or 3800, its going to throttle, they all have the same tdp, the higher skus consume more power and dissipate more heat, still not linear

 

[thunng8]

tdp is not the same thing as power consumption, it never was for intel, it was only valid for nvidia and they dropped it this year

they may or may not be the same, its an actual coincidence. Specially with turbo boost

it was never a linear graph, higher performance = higher consumption

for example, if you get the rmbp 15 with the base OEM cpu, it wont throttle, if you get other non oem cpus, 3700 or 3800, its going to throttle, they all have the same tdp, the higher skus consume more power and dissipate more heat, still not linear

So what is the use of TDP then if it does not really correlate to any real world power consumed/dissipated tests?

 

[Mr MM]

So what is the use of TDP then if it does not really correlate to any real world power consumed/dissipated tests?

it does correlate to power dissipation, for us there is nothing of use aside to raise points on design. for the OEMs it serves to see what their cooling needs to be.

its of neglect by the OEM, to not provide sufficient cooling since all the cpus are tested and qualified before implemented.

turbo boost is a known feature and since SB it can pass TDP limits for short amount of time, sustained load is provided only on workstation class, because no one is willing to put more copper in there

another thing, Im truly sorry, those graphs about heat arent right. some resellers that I know have pointed out that the heatsinks that they used for those tests and sent by the dumb reseller are using last years models, not of this years, so not a perfect fit and other stuff

 

[Serban]

So, there are no chances based on the rumors of past months that they will get improve the display for macbook air ?
The chances are 0% i guess right? And if we look back in time, yes the air was lower on specs than pro, but it was more portable and with better display..now it is vice versa

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i think if they started already to put "retina" even on ipod touch, i think that in a macbook air should be imminent this June for the sell point. Yes it is hard to put on iMacs because of the production and cost and bigger display and GPU to provide that much but they put already in 13" and 15"..now put the same on air and for 11" put the 2732*1536

 

[devilcm3]

So, there are no chances based on the rumors of past months that they will get improve the display for macbook air ?
The chances are 0% i guess right? And if we look back in time, yes the air was lower on specs than pro, but it was more portable and with better display..now it is vice versa

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i think if they started already to put "retina" even on ipod touch, i think that in a macbook air should be imminent this June for the sell point. Yes it is hard to put on iMacs because of the production and cost and bigger display and GPU to provide that much but they put already in 13" and 15"..now put the same on air and for 11" put the 2732*1536

why would you want a 13" retina macbook? the 13" rMBP is pretty close in terms of weight compared to the 13" MBA with 300g difference.

even if a rMBA really exists it would be priced approximately around the price of the 13" rMBP, even fewer reason to not get the rMBP

 

[Serban]

why would you want a 13" retina macbook? the 13" rMBP is pretty close in terms of weight compared to the 13" MBA with 300g difference.

even if a rMBA really exists it would be priced approximately around the price of the 13" rMBP, even fewer reason to not get the rMBP

last year this statement doesnt apply?? between 13" air vs 13" pro

 

[devilcm3]

last year this statement doesnt apply?? between 13" air vs 13" pro

well thats last year, but given that now they have a 13 inch rMBP theres no reason to introduce another similar machine?

 

[Serban]

ipod touch < iphone but still it has "retina" display
so
macbook air < macbook pro but both should have "retina" for sells

for example 13"macbook air retina with 4gb ram, dual core i5 or i7 at 2ghz, hd 4600 and 13" retina macbook pro with 8 gb ram, dual core i5,i7 with 2.4 ghz and above and hd 5000(for i7 cpu)...i think is reasonable

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i think for 1000% a macbook air 11" with retina...will have a such an impact for those who want portability and a desktop OS