Waiting for Haswell MBP Mega Thread

[Krazy Bill]

I've just come across this article:

http://www.product-reviews.net/2013/09/15/2013-haswell-macbook-pro-joins-imac-starts-to-ship/

I don't know how reputable the source is, but hopefully there'll be a few more rumours turning up soon.

And yet another article that just refers to "The" MacBook Pro. Again, we have no idea if they're referring to both, one or the other. Or perhaps they don't know whereas good reporting should at least admit that and also mention there's two models.

I suspect the article refers to the 15" as most don't acknowledge the lowly bastard sibling of the MBP line (13").

Whatever. Wonder though... perhaps this October only the 13" will be released w/Haswell and the 15" later. Staggered releases make it easier for supply channels and a controlled/limited release is undoubtedly cheaper for Apple. (Given the relatively small revenue stream that macs provide).

 

[mcarling]

It's an obscure site too.. way too many ads lol

I use adblocker.

And yet another article that just refers to "The" MacBook Pro. Again, we have no idea if they're referring to both, one or the other. Or perhaps they don't know whereas good reporting should at least admit that and also mention there's two models.

I suspect the article refers to the 15" as most don't acknowledge the lowly bastard sibling of the MBP line (13").

Whatever. Wonder though... perhaps this October only the 13" will be released w/Haswell and the 15" later. Staggered releases make it easier for supply channels and a controlled/limited release is undoubtedly cheaper for Apple. (Given the relatively small revenue stream that macs provide).

Releasing all the MBPs together is usual, though there have been exceptions. Any cost savings from a staggered release would be insignificant next to the opportunity cost of not releasing new products when they are ready.

 

[PDFierro]

I would not expect anything until October. And I see no reason why some people think it would come out in November/December or even next year. It seems ready to go.

Although, depending on Intel, I think we could very well not see the Broadwell MBP until 2015.

 

[GSPice]

I use adblocker.

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I was on my phone using safari

 

[Krazy Bill]

I use adblocker.

Any cost savings from a staggered release would be insignificant next to the opportunity cost of not releasing new products when they are ready.

But you're assuming "everything" is/will be ready at the same time and are simply awaiting presentation. What makes anyone think the MBP15 done? (At least one that meets Apple's expectations given the current Haswell challenges). The MBP13 on the other hand is iGPU. No brainer. Easy update to HD5000. Biggest seller. Get on with it.

Besides, a staggered product release (whether wise or not) does maximize resources as teams hop from one to the other.

 

[PDFierro]

I use adblocker.



But you're assuming "everything" is/will be ready at the same time and are simply awaiting presentation. What makes anyone think the MBP15 done? (At least one that meets Apple's expectations given the current Haswell challenges). The MBP13 on the other hand is iGPU. No brainer. Easy update to HD5000. Biggest seller. Get on with it.

Besides, a staggered product release (whether wise or not) does maximize resources as teams hop from one to the other.

HD5100 for 13-inch. Would be massively surprised if we did see the 5000.

 

[zOlid]

I think that Haswell was old tech the moment it was introduced in the MBA. I was severely underwhelmed by the performance increase over the 2012 MBA. An rMBP is supposed to be a "pro" computer and the Haswell chips just do not offer any significant improvements over the last generation CPUs. Yes, battery life is very important but IMO the potential buyers for the rMBP are looking for fast processors, high-end GPUs, as much RAM as possible and larger SSDs.

Perhaps Apple recognizes this and is waiting for the right components to be put together for this purpose.

There haven't really been any big performance leaps since Sandy Bridge really.
And in the desktop segment the Sandy Bridge CPU's are in some ways better then the Ivy Bridge and Haswell ones. Because they clocked VERY well compared to Ivy Bridge and Haswell.

How ever Haswell is faster then Ivy Bridge per clock. But that is kind of getting offset by the fact that Intel have lowered the clocks on CPU's since Ivy Bridge. So basically the Haswell version of a Ivy bridge CPU have better performance per clock, but also lower clock speed, so the performance gain per clock get pretty much evened out.

No. No no no no no!

The obvious problem with dislocating the Touch-ID device from the computer is exposing the validation mechanism to man-in-the-middle (or maybe device-in-the-middle) attacks. If the path between the fingerprint and its validation has external wires, you can count on the fact that those wires will be hacked. You can never eliminate that threat, but you can do a pretty darn good job minimizing it -- by having the Touch ID device firmly installed. Right. On. The. Computer.



If you think it's unreasonable, you need to say why.



A standard means of doing protection on all my computers makes huge sense. AAPL can control that experience by having the authentication work the same way in Safari on both platforms. Also, iOS developers using the inevitable Touch ID APIs will have a perfect way to emulate that validation when developing on Mac computers.



You fail to understand my two points:

1. A universal way of performing validation via Touch ID the same way on all my computers makes huge sense. A side-benefit is allowing developers a way to emulate Touch ID validation during their dev cycle.
2. If you're going to choose the first platform for Mac deployment, the Mac Pro makes big sense:

2a: As you note, volume of computers is low. You are only going to have a small impact on the available number of Touch ID devices.
2b: Mac Pro manufacture is happening in the US. It's far easier for AAPL to coordinate the deployment and work with the manufacturing lines while maintaining secrecy.

Again, if you think this is unreasonable, you need to explain your reasoning for that conjecture.

I honestly think having a fingerprint reader on the Mac Pro is totally stupid. At least if its located on the computer it self.
And i don't ever think it have been done. Fingerprint scanners on computers have existed for many years., and I've never even heard of any scanners located on a stationary computer.

I think Apple would be seriously ridiculed if they put one on the Mac Pro. Cos there would be such a small number of people that would use it.
Sure a lot of people will probably have their Mac Pro's on their desks. But not all will have them in arms reach. And then people just wont use it.

Even before Authentec where bought by Apple, and a lot of laptops had readers. Even then most people didn't bother using them. (I did use it a lot on my Vaio.) So for people to even think of using them at all they need to be extremely easy to use. So easy that you almost don't notice it.

And Apple have made only Apple store and unlocking of the phone available when using then fingerprint reader.
And phones have vastly different ways then computers of getting used.
Your phone you pick up from you pocket many times a day. And that way its very convenient to have a scanner so you don't have to use a pass key.

But a computer. You normally sit by for longer periods. You don't need to unlock them as often as you have to with phones.

How ever if Apple made key-chain accessible by a fingerprint reader. It would be very nice for a computer.
But i would be EXTREMELY SURPRISED if they put one ON the Mac Pro it self.
I would go so far that i would gladly take a bet of just 1.10 of the money i bet, that the Mac Pro would not have a fingerprint scanner located on its chassi.

The damaged factory produces 2Gbit DRAM chips. If I recall correctly, the MBPs use 4Gbit DRAM chips.

The article seems a bit sensationalist to me. I don't expect the bump in DRAM prices to last long or be severe.

That report is greatly exaggerated. The fire was on one of the ventilation units on the roof. There where a lot of thick smoke but the fire was very contained. And most importantly it did not contaminate the clean rooms.
If it had contaminated the clean rooms there would have been really bad for production and shut down the productions for long.

 

[mcarling]

But you're assuming "everything" is/will be ready at the same time and are simply awaiting presentation.

I'm not making that assumption. I just pointing out that it has usually been that way in the past.

 

[jafingi]

There haven't really been any big performance leaps since Sandy Bridge really.
And in the desktop segment the Sandy Bridge CPU's are in some ways better then the Ivy Bridge and Haswell ones. Because they clocked VERY well compared to Ivy Bridge and Haswell.

How ever Haswell is faster then Ivy Bridge per clock. But that is kind of getting offset by the fact that Intel have lowered the clocks on CPU's since Ivy Bridge. So basically the Haswell version of a Ivy bridge CPU have better performance per clock, but also lower clock speed, so the performance gain per clock get pretty much evened out.





I honestly think having a fingerprint reader on the Mac Pro is totally stupid. At least if its located on the computer it self.
And i don't ever think it have been done. Fingerprint scanners on computers have existed for many years., and I've never even heard of any scanners located on a stationary computer.

I think Apple would be seriously ridiculed if they put one on the Mac Pro. Cos there would be such a small number of people that would use it.
Sure a lot of people will probably have their Mac Pro's on their desks. But not all will have them in arms reach. And then people just wont use it.

Even before Authentec where bought by Apple, and a lot of laptops had readers. Even then most people didn't bother using them. (I did use it a lot on my Vaio.) So for people to even think of using them at all they need to be extremely easy to use. So easy that you almost don't notice it.

And Apple have made only Apple store and unlocking of the phone available when using then fingerprint reader.
And phones have vastly different ways then computers of getting used.
Your phone you pick up from you pocket many times a day. And that way its very convenient to have a scanner so you don't have to use a pass key.

But a computer. You normally sit by for longer periods. You don't need to unlock them as often as you have to with phones.

How ever if Apple made key-chain accessible by a fingerprint reader. It would be very nice for a computer.
But i would be EXTREMELY SURPRISED if they put one ON the Mac Pro it self.
I would go so far that i would gladly take a bet of just 1.10 of the money i bet, that the Mac Pro would not have a fingerprint scanner located on its chassi.



That report is greatly exaggerated. The fire was on one of the ventilation units on the roof. There where a lot of thick smoke but the fire was very contained. And most importantly it did not contaminate the clean rooms.
If it had contaminated the clean rooms there would have been really bad for production and shut down the productions for long.

I think the reason Apple is keeping tight control of the Touch ID API is that it would be a nightmare, if someone made a hack/trojan/something that fetched that fingerprint to an online db. Or the government could use that, or something.

Apple has clearly stated, that the fingerprint id will not be transferred to their server, nor being backed up. So it's just on the phone (and deleted if it has not been used within 48 hours).

So by having one on the Mac might expose a security risk.

 

[KUguardgrl13]

I've been waiting for the update since April now and I am thinking about buying a Windows machine again. My old early 2008 MBP has been revived 3 times already, and now the the backlight of the screen has given up.

I'm in the same boat. My 2009 MBP has been burning through hard drives and hd cables for 2 years now. I've been waiting since summer and almost begged my parents to get me a cMBP. I saw all the issues people were having with the retina displays and was still convinced I would need a disc drive. My how things can change in a few months.

But seriously I really want my late-2013 13" haswell i5 8gb RAM 256gb SSD rMBP!

 

[Stetrain]

The MBP13 on the other hand is iGPU. No brainer. Easy update to HD5000. Biggest seller. Get on with it.

There are no drop-in Haswell equivalents of the current 13" MBP CPUs (35W dual core) with HD 5000 or higher graphics.

In order to match or beat the HD 5000 graphics that are shipping right now in the Airs, Apple has to do one of the following:

- Switch to the exact same 17W ULV CPUs that the 2013 Airs are using
- Switch to the new 28W CPUs which are ULV (like the Air CPUs) but have Iris 5100 graphics
- Switch to the 47W quad core CPUs that come with Iris 5200

The first and third options are fairly unlikely, and the middle option uses a CPU (28W with Iris 5100) that isn't shipping yet in any computers that I know of.

The new Asus Zenbooks are supposed to use those same 28W CPUs but they are shipping "sometime in the next month or two".

 

[deadwalrus]

I think the reason Apple is keeping tight control of the Touch ID API is that it would be a nightmare, if someone made a hack/trojan/something that fetched that fingerprint to an online db. Or the government could use that, or something.

Apple has clearly stated, that the fingerprint id will not be transferred to their server, nor being backed up. So it's just on the phone (and deleted if it has not been used within 48 hours).

So by having one on the Mac might expose a security risk.

The fingerprint itself is not stored. Only data calculated from the fingerprint used to identify the user.

 

[jafingi]

The fingerprint itself is not stored. Only data calculated from the fingerprint used to identify the user.

That's why I wrote "fingerprint id"

 

[zOlid]

That's why I wrote "fingerprint id"

Yes but what i meant was that it would work like it does on the iPhone.
But it will unlock keychain. So in other words the fingerprint unlocks keychain and keychain unlocks what ever your trying to access.
You get what im saying?
That way the fingerprint data only communicates with keychain.

 

[The Leafs Fan]

I honestly think having a fingerprint reader on the Mac Pro is totally stupid. At least if its located on the computer it self.
And i don't ever think it have been done. Fingerprint scanners on computers have existed for many years., and I've never even heard of any scanners located on a stationary computer.

I think Apple would be seriously ridiculed if they put one on the Mac Pro. Cos there would be such a small number of people that would use it.
Sure a lot of people will probably have their Mac Pro's on their desks. But not all will have them in arms reach. And then people just wont use it.

Even before Authentec where bought by Apple, and a lot of laptops had readers. Even then most people didn't bother using them. (I did use it a lot on my Vaio.) So for people to even think of using them at all they need to be extremely easy to use. So easy that you almost don't notice it.

And Apple have made only Apple store and unlocking of the phone available when using then fingerprint reader.
And phones have vastly different ways then computers of getting used.
Your phone you pick up from you pocket many times a day. And that way its very convenient to have a scanner so you don't have to use a pass key.

But a computer. You normally sit by for longer periods. You don't need to unlock them as often as you have to with phones.

How ever if Apple made key-chain accessible by a fingerprint reader. It would be very nice for a computer.
But i would be EXTREMELY SURPRISED if they put one ON the Mac Pro it self.
I would go so far that i would gladly take a bet of just 1.10 of the money i bet, that the Mac Pro would not have a fingerprint scanner located on the chassis

Exactly, I cannot wrap my mind around why Apple would even put a fingerprint scanner on the Mac Pro. It makes a lot more sense to put a fingerprint sensor inside of a portable device, i.e. iPads, MacBooks, etc. If this year's rmbp gets a fingerprint sensor, I would bet that it could only be accessed by the Mac App store, the unlock screen, and perhaps disk utility if you choose to encypt the startup disk with the fingerprint as your key.

 

[dannys1]

Id would really love it if the next rMBP was also available in the space grey aluminium. I think cost implementations and further segmentation of a low income device would probably deem that impossible but its a shame that they've now developed these solid metal colours instead of anodised aluminium that they can't be used on Macbooks.

I'd love to see, but don't expect, retina resolution at the relative resolution of the Macbook Air - after using that for two years I find the retina resolution just slightly too "big" with no quite enough screen real estate and I loathe to set it to 75% and get "half retina".

Id also like a new keyboard rather than the black one which stains with oil very easily - and a I'm not very keen with the magsafe 2 connector - but again I expect neither.

I think Haswell, a/c wifi and 800mbps SSD's with bigger capacities are all the obvious given upgrades along with probably Thunderbolt 2.

 

[mcarling]

In order to match or beat the HD 5000 graphics that are shipping right now in the Airs, Apple has to do one of the following:

- Switch to the exact same 17W ULV CPUs that the 2013 Airs are using
- Switch to the new 28W CPUs which are ULV (like the Air CPUs) but have Iris 5100 graphics
- Switch to the 47W quad core CPUs that come with Iris 5200

The first and third options are fairly unlikely, and the middle option uses a CPU (28W with Iris 5100) that isn't shipping yet in any computers that I know of.

I also expect the 13" Haswell MBPs to have 28W Haswell parts with Intel 5100 Iris HD graphics. Apple might ship the 2.4GHz i5 and the 2.8GHz i7 parts, in which case Apple are probably paying a little premium to have all of the first million or so of each. It takes Intel some time to produce that many. Until then, there would be an embargo on the 2.0GHz i3 and 2.6GHz i5 parts (except for engineering samples). I believe that's the reason we haven't yet seen the Haswell MBP or any other laptops using the 28W Haswell parts. The same logic applies to the Haswell CPUs with Intel Iris Pro 5200 HD graphics that we expect to go into the 15" MBP.

 

[FlameRevenge]

I think October 25 is probably the least likely date for the refresh. Historically, Apple does their earnings call on October 25 and October 25 is a Friday. If they do a Mac event, they are not going to do it on the same day as an earnings call. They have not done a silent refresh on an earnings call either. Lastly, Apple normally does a refresh during the beginning of the week so it gets press before the weekend.

I'm not saying I'm right, I'm just going by what they have done in the past...

-P

Your right, but if you read what I said, I said it's the sale dates, not the announcement date lol.

----------

Hope this time you'll be true because if not, I will go for sure for a gaming series msi laptop

I have considered that, but it looks huge when compared to RMBP lol

 

[mcarling]

I'd love to see, but don't expect, retina resolution at the relative resolution of the Macbook Air - after using that for two years I find the retina resolution just slightly too "big" with no quite enough screen real estate and I loathe to set it to 75% and get "half retina".

I don't understand exactly what you mean and I can't see a reason why you would be loath to set the resolution to whatever compromise best suites you between how much you can display on the screen and having whatever is on the screen large enough to see.

I think Haswell, a/c wifi and 800mbps SSD's with bigger capacities are all the obvious given upgrades along with probably Thunderbolt 2.

I agree that Haswell, 802.11ac, and PCIe SSDs are virtually certain. I think there is a good chance to see a 1TB SSD BTO option, if not right away then sometime before Broadwell. I would consider inclusion of Thunderbolt 2 in the Haswell MBPs a portent that Apple will release a 3840x2160 Thunderbolt Display.

 

[The Leafs Fan]

I agree that Haswell, 802.11ac, and PCIe SSDs are virtually certain. I think there is a good chance to see a 1TB SSD BTO option, if not right away then sometime before Broadwell. I would consider inclusion of Thunderbolt 2 in the Haswell MBPs a portent that Apple will release a 3840x2160 Thunderbolt Display.

If the 1TB SSD was included as a BTO option, would Apple then in turn up the base SSD storage? I'm guessing they probably would. And I finished an article about the September 10th event http://theleafsfan.wordpress.com/2013/09/15/apples-big-event/ Homework sadly delayed me from finishing the article earlier.

 

[Vanilla35]

If the 1TB SSD was included as a BTO option, would Apple then in turn up the base SSD storage? I'm guessing they probably would. And I finished an article about the September 10th event http://theleafsfan.wordpress.com/2013/09/15/apples-big-event/ Homework sadly delayed me from finishing the article earlier.

Don't keep your hopes up. Apple added 128GB as an option for the iPad 4. But they added it on the end, for $100 more than the 64GB model, with the base still at 16GB.

Also, I voted.

 

[FloatingBones]

Well someone could just as easily take the casing off the Mac Pro and access the cables from the inside.

Just as easily, eh?

Thank you. It was a nonsense comment. Of course a Touch ID pad hardwired to a computer is far less vulnerable to man-in-the-middle attacks than one on a remote keyboard.

I think the point is that this fingerprint scanning stuff just makes more sense on portable devices, since these are exponentially more vulnerable to theft than desktop computers. I can't see Apple making it a priority to put it on Mac Pros or iMacs, at least not anytime soon.

Just like TB interfaces on all current Macs, Touch ID on all computers makes huge sense. It becomes part of Apple's branding -- another "back to the Mac" pulling iOS users to consider Mac desktops.

A Mac Pro would make good sense as a first platform. It has far lower volume than any other Apple computers. OTOH, it is a platform that developers would use -- and they would get it to get first access to the device on the Mac.

Touch ID ubiquitous on all Mac and iOS devices would be a huge win -- both functional and branding-wise -- for AAPL.

 

[Vanilla35]

Just like TB interfaces on all current Macs, Touch ID on all computers makes huge sense. It becomes part of Apple's branding -- another "back to the Mac" pulling iOS users to consider Mac desktops.

A Mac Pro would make good sense as a first platform. It has far lower volume than any other Apple computers. OTOH, it is a platform that developers would use -- and they would get it to get first access to the device on the Mac.

Touch ID ubiquitous on all Mac and iOS devices would be a huge win -- both functional and branding-wise -- for AAPL.

The thing is, apple doesn't care about that. Apple isn't trying to sell to certain companies or niche's which require a finger swipe for a secure work environment. Lots of things could benefit from a fingerprint scanner. That doesn't mean it's worth putting in.

 

[djrm]

I honestly think having a fingerprint reader on the Mac Pro is totally stupid. At least if its located on the computer it self.
And i don't ever think it have been done. Fingerprint scanners on computers have existed for many years., and I've never even heard of any scanners located on a stationary computer.

The Dell M1330 had a fingerprint reader many years ago

 

[Tavicu]

Image

The Dell M1330 had a fingerprint reader many years ago

He said Mac Pro! Not Mackbook Pro