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Waiting for Haswell MBP Mega Thread
- Thread starter thadoggfather
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Yeah well I never even got close to that. When they released the 17" MacBook Pro with internal battery they quoted its life span at up-to 1,000 Cycles and up-to 5 Years. My battery started to go bad at the 3 year mark (Service Battery warning, bulging began about 6 months later) and I only had 350 Cycles on it.
It's obvious they never actually tested the battery for 5 years, they simply simulated the average wear of a battery used in a computer for 5 years. They probably charged the cells and depleted them 1,000 times over a 2-3 week period and saw it didn't fail until around the 1000th charge and thats where they got their number from.
But we need to actually face reality, the batteries are going to degrade faster and faster the older they are. Leaving them charged, depleting them over time, only depleting a few of the cells and not the others. These are all things that happen in the real world.
I'm not saying Apple can solve physics with their batteries I'm just saying they should provide a way for users to service their own batteries even if it's as complicated as installing RAM used to be on the old models, whip the bottom off, unplug the battery cable from the motherboard and undo three screws. That is a lot easier than trying to remove a battery that is glued to the case and honestly I don't see any reason for them to be glueing anything there is plenty of space for screws to be used especially in the 13" Retina MacBook Pro, all around the trackpad there is loads of empty space.
I think this is everyone's concern. It's one of the most expensive notebooks on the planet while it's also build to throw away. Soldered RAM, glued batteries, screen/lid as one component,... It's really hard for people to abandon the old MBP when the newer model comes with al these concerns and it's high price point. I don't mind the Air has soldered RAM of glued batteries or whatever. It's acceptable at it's price point. But when spending 2000-3000 dollar for a machine knowing it'll be crippled in about 4 years is a very bitter pill to swallow.
Apple is like "We can get away with this, people will buy our stuff like usual, just give them some wow-factors like the retina display, all flash architecture, very thin and light design and they wouldn't even care about the lack of an optical drive or the way we've build it". It's true that most people don't even know how the rMBP is build, not everyone reads these sites or the iFixit reports. The lack of an optical drive is easily forgiven. But this is a PRO-machine aimed at (graphic) designers, architects, movie editors, software developers, photographers, mac-lovers who still like to game,... These are not the kind of people you want to underestimate buy giving them an expensive trow-away machine.
Long story short: It's extremely irrational, un-ecological and egoistic to glue batteries in an aluminum device. Use screws for gods sake!! Where's the Apple who let you get the battery out by a simple turn with a coin? The richer one gets, the greedier they get...
What would you say is the best balance between upgrading and holding resale value, top tier stock model (512/16gb)?
Well yeah, I just wasn't sure if he meant that he was buying two laptops and keeping both, or buying one and selling it later to get the money for the next refresh.
You hit the nail, thanks! I agree 100% with you.
To sum it up:
- Apple is not ecological anymore, even if they try to sell it with obvious standards.
- rMBP are not PRO, due to the lack of upgradability!
From a shareholder's perspective, it's (at least for the moment) perfect.
There is always a gap between shareholder's and client's interests. Since Cook, I've the feeling that the power shifted to the shareholder's benefit on the costs of customers, which in the long run won't work out I guess.
I guess then battery replacement under warranty means either a new bottom assembly or a very time intensive repair; I'm glad got Applecare on the 2 13 inch rMBP's got home, so at least if the batteries or screen goes bad within 3 years the cost ($) is on them.
To be honest, I don't understand what PRO has to do with upgradability. It's just a name, not an indication for upgradability.
They only cover batteries for 1 year even if you have Apple Care because it's considered a consumable item...
Really shows how much confidence they have in their supposedly 1,000 cycle batteries
Their pro line is shifting to non upgradable devices.
They did it with the rMBP and now the Mac Pro.
They probably looked at the automobile industry and just did the same.
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They only cover batteries for 1 year even if you have Apple Care because it's considered a consumable item...
Really shows how much confidence they have in their supposedly 1,000 cycle batteries
Unless you can prove it's a manufacturing defect
From what I've read online, if your battery goes over 300 Cycles they won't replace it unless it's puffed out / exploded out of its case.
Yeah totally agree.
Some of my friends think I'm throwing a lot of money away when I upgrade my iPhone on the first day every upgrade.
But the fact is I sell my iPhones a day or two before each iPhone event.
And just use another phone for the month between the event and the release. (It is a bit annoying but worth it. Cos during the weeks after the event, and the release, the market gets totally flooded with iPhones and the prices drop with 100eur just during the first week after the events.)
This way the secondhand market is not flooded with secondhand mobiles when I sell. And i almost don't loose any money selling. Since i keep my phones in tiptop condition this have worked extremely well.
Every 2 years i actually make money selling since I get a new contract and pay less each month.
I don't think this is possible with any other brand then Apple.
Other brands always drop much more in value on the secondhand market.
So the great resell value of Apple products is a HUGE benefit, and really justifies paying a little more.
And TBH now days comparable laptops to the rMBP in performance/design/weight/materials cost the same as the rMBP do anyway. The difference is that the other brands drop like stones in their resell values 1 year later, but the rMBP don't.
Its all about knowing when to sell and be smart about it.
Also i guess its a bit easier here in Sweden to sell, since there is far less products going out on the secondhand market, and that equals far less competition on prices, and we don't have "refurbished apple products" here. So you don't have to take the refurbish prices in to consideration at all.
True it's just a name. But in the past this name was advertised by apple and perceived by us as a real "PRO-"fessional device. Now it is still a very good device, but the focus shifts from professionality to mainstream. One brick of this change is the missing upgradability. If you buy a laptop for 2,5k you maybe want to double ram or add a bigger "generic" SSD after some month or one year.
Here it is a news that could say us something or maybe not.
http://9to5mac.com/2013/10/02/apple...ahead-of-likely-launch-toward-end-of-october/
I think new MBPs will come alongside with Mavericks preinstalled. It doesn't have any sense to release new MBPs equipped with a power-saving CPU if you can't show the real benefis at the day one.
From my perspective it's more likely new MBPs will came at the end of October but I can be wrong. What do you think about?
http://9to5mac.com/2013/10/02/apple...ahead-of-likely-launch-toward-end-of-october/
I think new MBPs will come alongside with Mavericks preinstalled. It doesn't have any sense to release new MBPs equipped with a power-saving CPU if you can't show the real benefis at the day one.
From my perspective it's more likely new MBPs will came at the end of October but I can be wrong. What do you think about?
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"Pro" seems to be the new "Premium". Non-upgradeability or difficult to upgrade products is the way Apple is going and judging by the profits they are making it's not going to change. It's just the way it is and we have to either get used to it or look elsewhere.
I got used to the battery issue a while ago. The build quality and being able to get amazing battery life without a hump sticking off the back of the computer was a forced tradeoff that in the end was worth it for me. I'm not thrilled with not being able to upgrade RAM. Now I just buy the maxed out amount of RAM at time of purchase. At least the Apple RAM premium is not as bad as it used to be
Macbook air batteries are not glued to the alluminium case, also in 2013 model. Correct me if I'm wrong but, although not intended to be user replaceable, you can actually do it following ifixit guide.
Same for the monitor ( not glued I mean).
Can someone confirm this two facts?
Same for the monitor ( not glued I mean).
Can someone confirm this two facts?
They only cover batteries for 1 year even if you have Apple Care because it's considered a consumable item...
Really shows how much confidence they have in their supposedly 1,000 cycle batteries
This pretty much sums it all up. If you can't cover your own batteries for 3 years, don't ****ing stick them to the body.
It's alright, it'll be funny to see the hordes of people pissed later when the costs for these batteries start coming up.
As Quu said, batteries are mechanical components, and swapping it out for a myriad of reasons is very important. I would think this rules out Macbooks with glued batteries from Antarctic/Arctic Expeditions.
+1 I Dont understand why people keep saying this. If you have a desktop then sure, I understand wanting upgradability.
When it comes to a portable laptop? As a professional I would 1000% prefer portability as compared to upgradability.
Yup. In fact, I've even managed to make money upgrading my laptops on occasion. I stopped tracking it a few years ago, but overall it was costing me about $150 an upgrade. Given that AppleCare itself is worth about $125-$175 per year, and the perk of having something "new" versus something on the depreciation curve, that's pretty spectacular.
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Yeah, I've often employed the same general strategy when it comes to laptops (although less so lately). You hit the nail on the head with the "bit annoying" part, but it's all about how an individual user personally feels about the tradeoff between money and hassle.
And we have yet another 'I don't see a need for it, so no one else should need it' post.
A lot of professionals need and worry about:
1. Bleeding edge resources.
2. Easy serviceability (imagine your hard drive dies in the field somewhere, or your battery can't hold a charge because it's too cold and you can't swap out batteries)
3. Overall ownership costs going up.
4. Hardware fails, it is inevitable.
5. Losing the option to customize certain components that may suit your needs better.
Of course, no body needs all those things.
If they want that, they should buy a workstation class laptop - a thinkpad or a precision/latitude, and you know what? They will. That is why the no longer 'pro' because of lack of serviceability argument holds water to a degree.
Im pretty certain the rMBP will be coming this month. If Mavericks is coming at the end of this month, the new rMBP will probably be announced at the 15th Oct event, with a free upgrade to Mavericks, just like in previous years....
We're almost there!!!
We're almost there!!!
And we have yet another 'I don't see a need for it, so no one else should need it' post.
A lot of professionals need and worry about:
1. Bleeding edge resources.
2. Easy serviceability (imagine your hard drive dies in the field somewhere, or your battery can't hold a charge because it's too cold and you can't swap out batteries)
3. Overall ownership costs going up.
4. Hardware fails, it is inevitable.
5. Losing the option to customize certain components that may suit your needs better.
Of course, no body needs all those things.
If they want that, they should buy a workstation class laptop - a thinkpad or a precision/latitude, and you know what? They will. That is why the no longer 'pro' because of lack of serviceability argument holds water to a degree.
Oh hypocrisy at it's best.
And we have yet another 'I don't see a need for it, so no one else should need it' post.
So If I consider portability more of a selling point for a pro machine means no one else considers that. Because pro must always mean bleeding edge/serviceability etc...?
I was simply stating that just because it is not serviceable does not mean it is still not Pro.
Since I'm working in an Apple Premium Reseller I went to the online training site Apple gives all his employees, OS X Mavericks isn't available for training yet. Think Apple only allows Apple Store staff to do it... sadly.
Wish I could tell you guys more.
Wish I could tell you guys more.
Yay! The first indirect rumor this month, hopefully this is the first of many.
At this point, I can only imagine that Haswell rMBP will only be revealed alongside Mavericks.
At this point, I can only imagine that Haswell rMBP will only be revealed alongside Mavericks.
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Most of the information in this article appeared in this thread first which 9to5mac has obviously been tracking.
Then MR shamelessly regurgitates it on the front page (as usual).My out of warranty, no Apple Care battery was replaced free simply because it dipped below 80% health before reaching 1000 cycles.
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