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Do companies like MacMall and B&H discount brand-new MacBook Pros when they're released or does that happen a few months into the cycle?

Trying to decide whether to get a discounted early 2013 rMBP now or wait till the new ones come out.

My budget is around $1,500 to $1,700 and I'll be using Photoshop, Illustrator and InDesign on it.
 
Oh hypocrisy at it's best.

And we have yet another 'I don't see a need for it, so no one else should need it' post.

So If I consider portability more of a selling point for a pro machine means no one else considers that. Because pro must always mean bleeding edge/serviceability etc...?

I was simply stating that just because it is not serviceable does not mean it is still not Pro.

And I was just stating that because of lack of serviceability it is no longer pro to some people. I did not say 'all'. Refer the last line in my post:

That is why the no longer 'pro' because of lack of serviceability argument holds water to a degree.

As opposed to yours:

+1 I Dont understand why people keep saying this. If you have a desktop then sure, I understand wanting upgradability.

When it comes to a portable laptop? As a professional I would 1000% prefer portability as compared to upgradability.

You decide who is following the "And we have yet another 'I don't see a need for it, so no one else should need it' post." train over here.

I'll go back to my wait for Haswell.
 
So this issue that is supposedly existed when the rMBPs were first launched... still exist even though all the updates have been released for OSX?

This already sort of got answered (the update in question is 10.9), but I'll add a little more.

Basically this isn't a simple thing you can just patch. We're more or less talking about a complete rewrite of the OS's rendering code to make better use of the GPU. This requires an entirely different type of programming (you can't simply grab existing animation code and tell the compiler that it should be GPU code, you need to completely rewrite the system). It's not surprising that it could take well over a year to make the changes that would significantly improve performance in this area.

Unfortunately it's not realistic to expect Apple to keep up with Windows in these areas simply because they can't justify spending as much on their desktop OS. At least Mavericks is definitely a huge step in the right direction. I'd like to hope this means that Apple will be turning more attention to OS X in the future instead of letting it sit while they work on iOS.
 
And we have yet another 'I don't see a need for it, so no one else should need it' post.

A lot of professionals need and worry about:

1. Bleeding edge resources.
2. Easy serviceability (imagine your hard drive dies in the field somewhere, or your battery can't hold a charge because it's too cold and you can't swap out batteries)
3. Overall ownership costs going up.
4. Hardware fails, it is inevitable.
5. Losing the option to customize certain components that may suit your needs better.

Of course, no body needs all those things. :rolleyes:

If they want that, they should buy a workstation class laptop - a thinkpad or a precision/latitude, and you know what? They will. That is why the no longer 'pro' because of lack of serviceability argument holds water to a degree.

I completely disagree that "Pro" implies serviceability. I won't even use the car analogy. :D

In general, you're thinking "Windows," or what we've been fed to understand as necessary the past 20 years or so with notebooks. Here's how I'd address your points:

1. Bleeding edge resources.
Really by that you mean memory and hard drive; nothing else. And even then, motherboard hardware is limited to some maximum memory and speed standard. I know you know this, but think about the baby you've thrown in the bathwater. No matter how upgradable a PC notebook is when purchased, it's only a matter of time until a newer, faster, incompatible speed and/or capacity standard for memory and storage comes to market.

2. Easy serviceability (imagine your hard drive dies in the field somewhere, or your battery can't hold a charge because it's too cold and you can't swap out batteries)
Again, you're only talking about memory, hard drive, and battery; nothing else is serviceable anyway. True, if a Retina SSD crashes, you're up a creek for a while, not like some PC notebooks that have easy swap mechanisms. But I'd say that the ability to swap drives for work (security and/or environment) is probably at least as important as the ability to swap drives due to failure. In that case, an Apple notebook isn't ideal anyway. As far as batteries, goodness - I wish I had more batteries for my work notebook. Expensive failures over and over. In my Dell notebook.

3. Overall ownership costs going up.
Not sure if this actually helps your argument. I spent way more upgrading my PC over the years than my "unservicable" iMac - yet with the iMac, I never really had the need to. I'm not sure what industry you work in, but it's not far fetched to say that the cost to buy a stick of ram for that notebook the boss approved 2 years ago is much more than if you walked into a store and bought the ram yourself. And again, if you can't upgrade a Mac, isn't that cheaper? Sure Macs cost more up front - but the cost to upgrade over the supposed many years of an "upgradable" notebook's life adds up.

4. Hardware fails, it is inevitable.
Again, if you're talking serviceable components, you're only talking about memory, drives, and batteries. And in all probability, that's in order of failure rate too. This is where the reliability of the notebook and individual components is obviously critical. Purchasing something because it's easier to replace a failed component is smart; purchasing something because it won't fail is smarter. I realize Apple components fail - but I'm much more comfortable with my Mac drives than PC drives - and in practicality, doesn't data redundancy trump that? Whether I can replace a hard drive on the go or not is one thing - having all my data is another - and it has nothing to do with my notebook being serviceable.

5. Losing the option to customize certain components that may suit your needs better.
Again, and again, memory and drives - which Apple does give the option for customization. If you purchase a maxed-out MBP, you can't do any better than a comparable maxed-out "servicable" notebook anyway.

Every notebook has a maximum capacity for memory and drive space. I think what you a really trying to argue for is not for a serviceable notebook; but a cheaper notebook. Once you max out your serviceable notebook, you're done - no more upgrading or customizing. It's just that with the rMBP, for example, you're given that chance "once," up front (OWC upgrades excluded).

Note that I'm not saying, "you're a raving lunatic and you're so WRONG" - I'm just saying there are nuances that people need to think about. Many notebook owners don't.
 
I'll get back to your post in a bit, but for now let me just say, you (from the first line in your post) and Crzyrio are both missing my point that to *some* people, serviceability is a part of a 'Pro' package.

I'll read through the rest of it at lunch and get back.

I completely disagree that "Pro" implies serviceability. I won't even use the car analogy. :D

In general, you're thinking "Windows," or what we've been fed to understand as necessary the past 20 years or so with notebooks. Here's how I'd address your points:

1. Bleeding edge resources.
Really by that you mean memory and hard drive; nothing else. And even then, motherboard hardware is limited to some maximum memory and speed standard. I know you know this, but think about the baby you've thrown in the bathwater. No matter how upgradable a PC notebook is when purchased, it's only a matter of time until a newer, faster, incompatible speed and/or capacity standard for memory and storage comes to market.

2. Easy serviceability (imagine your hard drive dies in the field somewhere, or your battery can't hold a charge because it's too cold and you can't swap out batteries)
Again, you're only talking about memory, hard drive, and battery; nothing else is serviceable anyway. True, if a Retina SSD crashes, you're up a creek for a while, not like some PC notebooks that have easy swap mechanisms. But I'd say that the ability to swap drives for work (security and/or environment) is probably at least as important as the ability to swap drives due to failure. In that case, an Apple notebook isn't ideal anyway. As far as batteries, goodness - I wish I had more batteries for my work notebook. Expensive failures over and over. In my Dell notebook.

3. Overall ownership costs going up.
Not sure if this actually helps your argument. I spent way more upgrading my PC over the years than my "unservicable" iMac - yet with the iMac, I never really had the need to. I'm not sure what industry you work in, but it's not far fetched to say that the cost to buy a stick of ram for that notebook the boss approved 2 years ago is much more than if you walked into a store and bought the ram yourself. And again, if you can't upgrade a Mac, isn't that cheaper? Sure Macs cost more up front - but the cost to upgrade over the supposed many years of an "upgradable" notebook's life adds up.

4. Hardware fails, it is inevitable.
Again, if you're talking serviceable components, you're only talking about memory, drives, and batteries. And in all probability, that's in order of failure rate too. This is where the reliability of the notebook and individual components is obviously critical. Purchasing something because it's easier to replace a failed component is smart; purchasing something because it won't fail is smarter. I realize Apple components fail - but I'm much more comfortable with my Mac drives than PC drives - and in practicality, doesn't data redundancy trump that? Whether I can replace a hard drive on the go or not is one thing - having all my data is another - and it has nothing to do with my notebook being serviceable.

5. Losing the option to customize certain components that may suit your needs better.
Again, and again, memory and drives - which Apple does give the option for customization. If you purchase a maxed-out MBP, you can't do any better than a comparable maxed-out "servicable" notebook anyway.

Every notebook has a maximum capacity for memory and drive space. I think what you a really trying to argue for is not for a serviceable notebook; but a cheaper notebook. Once you max out your serviceable notebook, you're done - no more upgrading or customizing. It's just that with the rMBP, for example, you're given that chance "once," up front (OWC upgrades excluded).

Note that I'm not saying, "you're a raving lunatic and you're so WRONG" - I'm just saying there are nuances that people need to think about. Many notebook owners don't.
 
Do companies like MacMall and B&H discount brand-new MacBook Pros when they're released or does that happen a few months into the cycle?
Not typically. B&H will start about $90-$100 lower than Apple's price to counteract the educational discount. Plus they provide free shipping, no sales tax (outside of New York) and throw in a free copy of Parallels. They also sell AppleCare which is cheaper than Apple.

Here is a handy pricing guide that's updated daily.
 
Not typically. B&H will start about $90-$100 lower than Apple's price to counteract the educational discount. Plus they provide free shipping, no sales tax (outside of New York) and throw in a free copy of Parallels. They also sell AppleCare which is cheaper than Apple.

Here is a handy pricing guide that's updated daily.

Thanks. What's strange is that when you include sales tax (I'm in TX) and AppleCare, I could get a new rMBP for cheaper than the same model refurb'd from Apple.
 
I completely disagree that "Pro" implies serviceability. I won't even use the car analogy. :D

In general, you're thinking "Windows," or what we've been fed to understand as necessary the past 20 years or so with notebooks. Here's how I'd address your points:

1. Bleeding edge resources.
Really by that you mean memory and hard drive; nothing else. And even then, motherboard hardware is limited to some maximum memory and speed standard. I know you know this, but think about the baby you've thrown in the bathwater. No matter how upgradable a PC notebook is when purchased, it's only a matter of time until a newer, faster, incompatible speed and/or capacity standard for memory and storage comes to market.

2. Easy serviceability (imagine your hard drive dies in the field somewhere, or your battery can't hold a charge because it's too cold and you can't swap out batteries)
Again, you're only talking about memory, hard drive, and battery; nothing else is serviceable anyway. True, if a Retina SSD crashes, you're up a creek for a while, not like some PC notebooks that have easy swap mechanisms. But I'd say that the ability to swap drives for work (security and/or environment) is probably at least as important as the ability to swap drives due to failure. In that case, an Apple notebook isn't ideal anyway. As far as batteries, goodness - I wish I had more batteries for my work notebook. Expensive failures over and over. In my Dell notebook.

3. Overall ownership costs going up.
Not sure if this actually helps your argument. I spent way more upgrading my PC over the years than my "unservicable" iMac - yet with the iMac, I never really had the need to. I'm not sure what industry you work in, but it's not far fetched to say that the cost to buy a stick of ram for that notebook the boss approved 2 years ago is much more than if you walked into a store and bought the ram yourself. And again, if you can't upgrade a Mac, isn't that cheaper? Sure Macs cost more up front - but the cost to upgrade over the supposed many years of an "upgradable" notebook's life adds up.

4. Hardware fails, it is inevitable.
Again, if you're talking serviceable components, you're only talking about memory, drives, and batteries. And in all probability, that's in order of failure rate too. This is where the reliability of the notebook and individual components is obviously critical. Purchasing something because it's easier to replace a failed component is smart; purchasing something because it won't fail is smarter. I realize Apple components fail - but I'm much more comfortable with my Mac drives than PC drives - and in practicality, doesn't data redundancy trump that? Whether I can replace a hard drive on the go or not is one thing - having all my data is another - and it has nothing to do with my notebook being serviceable.

5. Losing the option to customize certain components that may suit your needs better.
Again, and again, memory and drives - which Apple does give the option for customization. If you purchase a maxed-out MBP, you can't do any better than a comparable maxed-out "servicable" notebook anyway.

Every notebook has a maximum capacity for memory and drive space. I think what you a really trying to argue for is not for a serviceable notebook; but a cheaper notebook. Once you max out your serviceable notebook, you're done - no more upgrading or customizing. It's just that with the rMBP, for example, you're given that chance "once," up front (OWC upgrades excluded).

Note that I'm not saying, "you're a raving lunatic and you're so WRONG" - I'm just saying there are nuances that people need to think about. Many notebook owners don't.

I disagree with the upgrade part. you have a chance "once" yes.. but thats only with todays max ram and largest SSD. fast forward 5 years and now you cant replace that 16gb ram with 2x64gb sticks. or that measly 1tb SSD with a 5tb hard drive because you are stuck with 5 year old choices. those numbers are totally made up but it gets the point across... my 2 cents would be that "pro" implies professional. a professional needs the computer to get the job done.. not to be thin and sexy. apple has been sacrificing form over functionality Who doesnt enjoy a thinner laptop? I myself am looking forward to a lightweight powerful laptop. at the same time, that sacrifice isn't worth a laptop thats as upgradeable as a cellphone. all of that said, I still believe the rmbp is amazing and I cant wait to throw my money at apple regardless.. lol.
 
I disagree with the upgrade part. you have a chance "once" yes.. but thats only with todays max ram and largest SSD. fast forward 5 years and now you cant replace that 16gb ram with 2x64gb sticks. or that measly 1tb SSD with a 5tb hard drive because you are stuck with 5 year old choices. those numbers are totally made up but it gets the point across... my 2 cents would be that "pro" implies professional. a professional needs the computer to get the job done.. not to be thin and sexy. apple has been sacrificing form over functionality Who doesnt enjoy a thinner laptop? I myself am looking forward to a lightweight powerful laptop. at the same time, that sacrifice isn't worth a laptop thats as upgradeable as a cellphone. all of that said, I still believe the rmbp is amazing and I cant wait to throw my money at apple regardless.. lol.

Did you read what I wrote on #2?
Really by that you mean memory and hard drive; nothing else. And even then, motherboard hardware is limited to some maximum memory and speed standard. I know you know this, but think about the baby you've thrown in the bathwater. No matter how upgradable a PC notebook is when purchased, it's only a matter of time until a newer, faster, incompatible speed and/or capacity standard for memory and storage comes to market.

You made my point precisely. Fast forward 5 years, and the cost of memory that is still compatible goes way up.. to say nothing of that fact that you simply can't upgrade a notebook mobo beyond it's maximum allowable memory, and certainly not with the newer, faster memory that isn't compatible, obviously.

----------

I'll get back to your post in a bit, but for now let me just say, you (from the first line in your post) and Crzyrio are both missing my point that to *some* people, serviceability is a part of a 'Pro' package.

I'll read through the rest of it at lunch and get back.

But I did mention that here - and I don't deny it:

Again, you're only talking about memory, hard drive, and battery; nothing else is serviceable anyway. True, if a Retina SSD crashes, you're up a creek for a while, not like some PC notebooks that have easy swap mechanisms. But I'd say that the ability to swap drives for work (security and/or environment) is probably at least as important as the ability to swap drives due to failure. In that case, an Apple notebook isn't ideal anyway. As far as batteries, goodness - I wish I had more batteries for my work notebook. Expensive failures over and over. In my Dell notebook.
 
Is there is any "catch" to buying from B&H or MacMall?

Given their pricing, I'm trying to figure out if there is any reason to buy directly from Apple.
I have no experience with MacMall, only B&H. I've bought all my photo equipment and computer equipment through them for the past 10 years. Never a problem and they are an authorized Apple retailer and highly rated by consumers.

I normally don't shill for any seller but B&H gives me the best price and peace of mind.
 
Dell just announced new laptops sporting display "based on igzo". Thoughts? High chance we'll see them in the retinas?

http://www.engadget.com/2013/10/02/dell-xps-13-15-refreshed/
 
Was just reading about this - things just got interesting. Also the 15 has the 750m 2gb option. Didn't see what cpu would be used in the non-gpu 15" though???

If Dell can get these IGZO screens for their 15" models, I wonder why Apple wont be starting until 2014. It would be a nice addition to the rMBPs this year!
 
If Dell can get these IGZO screens for their 15" models, I wonder why Apple wont be starting until 2014. It would be a nice addition to the rMBPs this year!


Maybe the reported rumor sites were off about IGZO and they will actually release with Haswell model this year?
 
Maybe the reported rumor sites were off about IGZO and they will actually release with Haswell model this year?
Again -- note the press release language: They are not projecting a release date, and in fact are not even projecting a date on which they will project a release date. That sez to me: no IGZO until well into 2014.

The chances of IGZO MBP this year are just about zilch.
 
Again -- note the press release language: They are not projecting a release date, and in fact are not even projecting a date on which they will project a release date. That sez to me: no IGZO until well into 2014.

The chances of IGZO MBP this year are just about zilch.

It says October 15th.....
 
It says October 15th.....
I don't know where engadget is getting their info from, but it is inconsistent with the official Dell PR release at the bottom of the article. The press release specifically sez (at the bottom of the release) October 18 for the first of the tablets, and the XPS machines' pricing and availability to be provided in the next few weeks.
 
I don't know where engadget is getting their info from, but it is inconsistent with the official Dell PR release at the bottom of the article. The press release specifically sez (at the bottom of the release) October 18 for the first of the tablets, and the XPS machines' pricing and availability to be provided in the next few weeks.

Not really, the XPS 15 will be available on Oct 18th but not the Venue 11 Pro, XPS 11 and the updated XPS 13
 
Not really, the XPS 15 will be available on Oct 18th but not the Venue 11 Pro, XPS 11 and the updated XPS 13
You are correct -- I misread the PR. The pertinent part in toto:

Availability and Pricing
The Dell Venue 7, Venue 8, Venue 8 Pro, and new XPS 15 will be available from October 18 on www.dell.com in the United States and select countries around the world. The Venue 11 Pro, XPS 11 and the updated XPS 13 with touch will be available in November.
-------------------
EDIT: Wait a minute! That portion is now DIFFERENT -- looks like a silent "fix" to me, as there is no question that it originally said pricing and availability on the XPS's would be coming in the next few weeks (I would not have made up those word groups). I assume that explains our different views -- I read the early version, you read the updated version.
 
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What does "based on IGZO" mean? To me it means it's not IGZO (until proven otherwise) or it would proudly say it was IGZO.
"Based on IGZO" presumably means that Dell uses IGZO panels. Dell has announced the M4800 and M3800, both of which use IGZO panels with the exact same resolution and size. The M3800 seems to be practically identical to the XPS 15 with the expection of it using a Quadro graphics card instead of a GT. As far as I'm aware there no technology available that can be described as being similar to IGZO. The step has been straight from IPS to IGZO. I don't think there's an inbetween solution that can work. There's also no IPS screen that I've heard of anywhere that has this resolution. An IGZO display is likely also the reason why Dell can claim 13 hours of battery life. Everything points straight towards an IGZO display. By the looks of it this might be my next laptop. I was hoping that Dell would make a consumer version of the M3800 since I don't really use applications that benefit much from workstation drivers.
 
Does anyone really feel the need for a 4k screen or are you full of want because it's the new shiny? I'd be perfectly happy with retina.
 
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