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And you know this how? Do you work in Apple's supply chain?
I don't -- just trying to apply some logic.

Apple has been working on 10.9 betas right up to the GM declaration (the idea that they've had a GM sitting around for weeks makes zero sense, given their own cycle of "here's the next beta release, it fixes xxx errors").

Let's say that they want to have 1/2 million MBP's in stock and/or ready to ship (from China) on release day.

With two weeks notice (~time from GM to 10/15), that's 35,000+ machines per day (or ~1 every 2.4 seconds) being loaded with OSX 10.9 (a quick, but not instantaneous transfer), placed into packaging and sealed, placed onto pallets and into transport containers, shipped (air shipping the initial production) and distributed to retail stores.

Even with the Chinese factory staff being flogged 24/7, I don't see how they could provide the needed volume of machines with 10.9 installed. Ergo, 10.8 with a free upgrade. Also ergo, if they announce 10/22 with later availability, they can be expected to ship with 10.9, as they'll have enough time to load the GM version before packaging.
 
What would be really interesting would be to do an adjustment to purchasing power parity. I would if I had the time and the brains:p Here's an interesting link on purchasing power parity with a few indexes showing how pricing vary around the world, and these figures take into account the difference in income vs cost of goods in said country, or the "law of one price" - if that works... (Guessing it's often quite wrong.. but it's interesting reading!). In my case, for Norway, by the big Mac index Norwegian goods should cost up to ~80% more than in the states. But if the law of one price holds true and I've understood it all correctly then the difference in avg salaries should balance that out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purchasing_power_parity#OECD_comparative_price_levels

Definitelty makes an interesting international market case. A case that ventures far beyond this thread though :p
Ps perhaps they should scrap the Big Mac index for the Macbook Pro index haha
 
I don't -- just trying to apply some logic.

Apple has been working on 10.9 betas right up to the GM declaration (the idea that they've had a GM sitting around for weeks makes zero sense, given their own cycle of "here's the next beta release, it fixes xxx errors").

Let's say that they want to have 1/2 million MBP's in stock and/or ready to ship (from China) on release day.

With two weeks notice (~time from GM to 10/15), that's 35,000+ machines per day (or ~1 every 2.4 seconds) being loaded with OSX 10.9 (a quick, but not instantaneous transfer), placed into packaging and sealed, placed onto pallets and into transport containers, shipped (air shipping the initial production) and distributed to retail stores.

Even with the Chinese factory staff being flogged 24/7, I don't see how they could provide the needed volume of machines with 10.9 installed. Ergo, 10.8 with a free upgrade. Also ergo, if they announce 10/22 with later availability, they can be expected to ship with 10.9, as they'll have enough time to load the GM version before packaging.

iOS 7 was 10 days from GM to release of iPhone 5S/5C (and these are shipping in way larger volumes). So frankly, your logic doesn't make sense. :)
 
So maybe Apple should open an Apple Store at the New York Airport...

If they opened an Apple Store at JFK, it would be the only place in that godforsaken wasteland of an airport to have free Wi-Fi.

But seriously, it is unbelievably embarrassing that JFK is the first impression many visitors to America get of our country, and that they can't even be bothered to provide free Wi-fi. What a hole.
 
Well, bigtime Lakers fan, bigtime Dodgers fan, bigtime Rolling Stones fan. Take you're pick. I've seen the Stones live 57 times, so you can call me The Midnight Rambler

Ok, The Midnight Rambler it is.

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Toronto needs more Apple stores. There are 4 Apple stores in Toronto, and none of them are close to Scarborough. I've never even been to one of the Toronto Apple stores. The only Apple store I've been to is the on in Miami.:cool: I've been looking on Apple's website, and the Sherway Gardens Apple store looks pretty cool in the picture on the website. It has a giant Retina MacBook Pro!
 

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Toronto needs more Apple stores. There are 4 Apple stores in Toronto, and none of them are close to Scarborough. I've never even been to one of the Toronto Apple stores. The only Apple store I've been to is the on in Miami.:cool: I've been looking on Apple's website, and the Sherway Gardens Apple store looks pretty cool in the picture on the website. It has a giant Retina MacBook Pro!

Yeah, but is it Haswell? :D
 
Given all the talk about MBPr release vs Mavericks release.... It is my understanding that Apple has a policy; "You should not attempt to install or reinstall a version of Mac OS X earlier than what came with your computer". Is that statement still valid? Here is an old statement.

Could this come into play in determining what version of OSX the Haswell MBPr will come with? For example, not wanting to support 10.8.x drivers for Iris Pro 5200, TB2, etc...
 
Given all the talk about MBPr release vs Mavericks release.... It is my understanding that Apple has a policy; "You should not attempt to install or reinstall a version of Mac OS X earlier than what came with your computer". Is that statement still valid? Here is an old statement.

Could this come into play in determining what version of OSX the Haswell MBPr will come with? For example, not wanting to support 10.8.x drivers for Iris Pro 5200, TB2, etc...

Not sure what you mean. What does the "downgrade" policy have to do with what OS Apple puts on the machine, when it will only be "upgraded"?
 
Toronto needs more Apple stores. There are 4 Apple stores in Toronto, and none of them are close to Scarborough. I've never even been to one of the Toronto Apple stores. The only Apple store I've been to is the on in Miami.:cool: I've been looking on Apple's website, and the Sherway Gardens Apple store looks pretty cool in the picture on the website. It has a giant Retina MacBook Pro!

Well depending on where you are in Scarborough, the one that just popped up in Markham might not be so far. The Eatons one is also just a subway ride away :D
 
True. The GM is definitely a good way to know we're close.
The GM informs us that we are close to a release of Mavericks. It tells us nothing about how close we are to a release of the Haswell MBPs.

Keep in mind when apple releases a beta/gm to developers, that copy is one that was probably worked on months ago. They probably signed of on the GM a couple weeks ago before releasing it. They are well working on the next update by now.
No, the code base was developed daily, with a new build nearly every day, right up to the GM. The builds from two months ago were terribly buggy compared to the GM.

iOS 7 was 10 days from GM to release of iPhone 5S/5C (and these are shipping in way larger volumes). So frankly, your logic doesn't make sense. :)
You would have a good point if the time needed to install a new version of iOS were the same as the time needed to install a new version of OS X. Also, the iPhone 5c is internally similar enough to the iPhone 5 that it probably could have been shipped with a version of iOS 6 (or at worst case a very slightly modified new version of iOS 6), but the iPhone 5s really requires iOS 7 (for the fingerprint ID and the new dual-flash camera, for example). I cannot imagine any reason why the Haswell MBPs could not run 10.8.5. 10.8.5 was released recently enough that it would have been thoroughly tested on pre-production Haswell MBPs -- whether Apple planned to release them with 10.8 or 10.9.

Another reason why I would not be surprised if Apple were to release the Haswell MBPs with 10.8.5 before the release of Mavericks (assuming, of course, that enough Haswell MBPs have been produced) is that many customers (including me) are wary of *.0 software releases. I know many people who will wait for 10.9.1 or 10.9.2 before upgrading to Mavericks. Apple may not want people to delay their Haswell MBP purchases while waiting for the initial bugs to be worked out.
 
Given all the talk about MBPr release vs Mavericks release.... It is my understanding that Apple has a policy; "You should not attempt to install or reinstall a version of Mac OS X earlier than what came with your computer". Is that statement still valid? Here is an old statement.

Could this come into play in determining what version of OSX the Haswell MBPr will come with? For example, not wanting to support 10.8.x drivers for Iris Pro 5200, TB2, etc...

You are right. I tried installing Snow Leopard on a 2011 MBP when I had issues with an OWC Mercury SSD just to see if that OS was more stable. It wouldn't even install. I'm sure there are exceptions though.

At this late date it's a moot point with the new rMBP. IMO it's coming with Mavericks because the GM is now out. By the time of the Haswell rMBP release Apple will have had plenty of time to preinstall Mavericks.
 
Not sure what you mean. What does the "downgrade" policy have to do with what OS Apple puts on the machine, when it will only be "upgraded"?

If apple releases MBPr w/ Mavericks; then they will not have to dedicate additional resources to build/push/maintain a Mountain Lion release that has the required drivers to support MBPr Haswell hardware.

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At this late date it's a moot point with the new rMBP. IMO it's coming with Mavericks because the GM is now out.

I agree, most likely will be with Mavericks. Guess my concern, it will be with a virgin release of Mavericks (e.g. initial fixes, bugs, workarounds not included), so we may have to suffer for a-bit.
 
Could this come into play in determining what version of OSX the Haswell MBPr will come with? For example, not wanting to support 10.8.x drivers for Iris Pro 5200, TB2, etc...

10.8.5 already has Iris Pro 5200 drivers, which it needs for the Haswell iMac. There is still no indication that the Haswell MBPs will include Thunderbolt 2, though we also cannot rule it out yet. 10.8.5 might already have updated drivers for Thunderbolt 2.
 
Would even the entry-level Macbook Pro option ($1,199) theoretically have haswell and the battery life increase? Or an improved display?
 
I don't -- just trying to apply some logic.

Apple has been working on 10.9 betas right up to the GM declaration (the idea that they've had a GM sitting around for weeks makes zero sense, given their own cycle of "here's the next beta release, it fixes xxx errors").

Let's say that they want to have 1/2 million MBP's in stock and/or ready to ship (from China) on release day.

With two weeks notice (~time from GM to 10/15), that's 35,000+ machines per day (or ~1 every 2.4 seconds) being loaded with OSX 10.9 (a quick, but not instantaneous transfer), placed into packaging and sealed, placed onto pallets and into transport containers, shipped (air shipping the initial production) and distributed to retail stores.

Even with the Chinese factory staff being flogged 24/7, I don't see how they could provide the needed volume of machines with 10.9 installed. Ergo, 10.8 with a free upgrade. Also ergo, if they announce 10/22 with later availability, they can be expected to ship with 10.9, as they'll have enough time to load the GM version before packaging.

I have no idea as to whether the MacBook Pro will be released with 10.9 or not, but the reasoning does not make much sense here. I highly doubt they load each computer manually with 10.9, most likely they have some kind of automatic procedure for that, possibly even before plugging the ssd in the laptop. But regardless of how they do it, flashing a few tens of gigabytes on an SSD does not take that long, and since for sure they do more than one at a time, ~1 every 2.4 seconds would not be an impressive number at all.
 
I just decided I don´t want to wait any longer, so Apple will release the Haswell MRPrs next Tuesday (8.10.) and let us upgrade to Mavericks for free.

There´s some logic for you: Me wants it. My precious. So Apple will do it. :D
 
The GM informs us that we are close to a release of Mavericks. It tells us nothing about how close we are to a release of the Haswell MBPs.

Of course it does. There's plenty to infer and speculate without being legalistic*, which I realize is your strong point.

*not intended in a derogatory sense.
 
I don't understand why shipping the new Macs with Mavericks is a problem.

They've done this before they could do it again.
 
Anyone know if the 10.9 GM seed has Thunderbolt 2 drivers?

I think you're way too focused (like a lot of people here) on the rMBP and forgets about the other Apple-products: The Mac Pro has Thunderbolt 2 and will be released soon (probably simultaneous with Mavericks), so your question as the answer is irrelevant to know if the rMBP will have Thunderbolt 2.

My opinion: I'm 99% sure the rMBP will have Thunderbolt 2.
Why: They've postponed the rMBP till now (while the Mac Pro release with Thunderbolt 2 is imminent + Thunderbolt 2 Display).
 
I just decided I don´t want to wait any longer, so Apple will release the Haswell MRPrs next Tuesday (8.10.) and let us upgrade to Mavericks for free.

There´s some logic for you: Me wants it. My precious. So Apple will do it. :D

Honestly I would love to watch the conference on live blogs (like I always do) and finally see Tim or whoever, display the new lines of rMBPs live :D
That is if there actually is an event on the 15th..:rolleyes:
 
To say that an imminent release of Mavricks implies an imminent release of Haswell MBPs is saying that correlation is causation. It's not but... It's a damn good chance :p
 
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