Waiting for Haswell MBP Mega Thread

[Blue Sun]

Wow - so you have insights in Sharps production line like capacity and demand?

Well, why was Apple sourcing panels from BOTH Samsung and LG for their rMBPs? Thought about that?

In addition, new technologies usually have niggles in the beginning, and I'd be willing to bet that IGZO panel production is no exception. Of course I am just guessing, but I feel that given the recent history with supply constraints with retina iPads last year, this scenario is pretty likely. Not to mention the recent comments regarding panel production holding up the next-gen rMBPs.

By the way, your sarcasm is unnecessary. Had a bad day, mate?

 

[Stetrain]

Is this a risk with the IGZO displays?

As I understand it IGZO is just a way to build a traditional backlit LCD panel using a different process and set of materials to let more light through, thus requiring a smaller backlight for the same brightness.

OLED is a completely different technology than backlit LCD panels.

 

[CmdrLaForge]

Well, why was Apple sourcing panels from BOTH Samsung and LG for their rMBPs? Thought about that?

In addition, new technologies usually have niggles in the beginning, and I'd be willing to bet that IGZO panel production is no exception. Of course I am just guessing, but I feel that given the recent history with supply constraints with retina iPads last year, this scenario is pretty likely. Not to mention the recent comments regarding panel production holding up the next-gen rMBPs.

By the way, you're sarcasm is unnecessary. Had a bad day, mate?

Not a bad day but too many statements about things that people have obviously no clue what they talk about.

Dual sourcing is a well known strategy to have security of supply and price pressure on competing suppliers. If or if not sees this more important then new technologys which might give a competitive advantage is unknown. Unknown is capacity and demand on Sharps production line.

Wild guessing around is ok but should be marked as such and not come across as known facts like the statements above.

 

[AppleChampagne]

Not a bad day but too many statements about things that people have obviously no clue what they talk about.

Dual sourcing is a well known strategy to have security of supply and price pressure on competing suppliers. If or if not sees this more important then new technologys which might give a competitive advantage is unknown. Unknown is capacity and demand on Sharps production line.

Wild guessing around is ok but should be marked as such and not come across as known facts like the statements above.

I agree with this statement totally!

There should be a referencing system on mac rumours which will in turn lend to higher credibility. When you write an academic paper you can't make up actualities in your thesis as you need solid proof for reasoning. Too many willy nilly fabrications here....

 

[Mr MM]

Um ... i don't see the article mentioning about IGZO ... anywhere ?

besides IGZO panels have just begin production this year ... am i missing something ?

i've seen and heard a lot of reviews from websites and my web designer peers ... i find many praise the retina's color reproduction ...

if retina colors are worse than cMBPs, many professionals would have traded their machines back to cMBP.

these numbers do tell us something but i felt the comparison table cater more towards people who are more concerned about those numbers rather than the quality of the screen itself.

some say how good the Samsung Super AMOLED screen is, deeper blacks, whiter whites...bluer blues...the results exceed all those color test...
i found the oversaturated display is as good as turd.

any designer who are sane enough would have chose the iphone display over samsung even though its "just an IPS"

so i guess ... can we just wait till anybody post comparison photos? like... REAL side by side photos...not just numbers?

that is a IGZO display.

yes you are missing something, the 13'' panels have been in production before the kirabook was launched, the new lines are for the 14 and 15. Fujitsu, asus, acer, hp and other brands are getting IGZO displays in some of their notebooks.

those numbers represent the quality of the screen, though they dont adress the issue of color fluxuation. photos dont show the display quality, they are bound by their own distortions on how displays work.

Oversatured displays? really? thats a matter of calibration and poor display usage. Simply put industry standard for most of those pros is 100% aRGB at least (it doesnt matter for web designers they dont do color sensitive work), thats a lot more than what the rmbp offers, which is no wonder why people are jumping ship from apple, they expected better not on par (the ips displays are on par to what you have on the cmbp). not to mention the very large dissatisfaction with the mac pro, despite the 2 w9000 that they pack.

the best notebook display is the dream color 2 and the precision display, they pack 150% aRGB with 10bit.

FYI apple is one of the few that actually calibrates well their displays.

 

[Blue Sun]

Not a bad day but too many statements about things that people have obviously no clue what they talk about.

Dual sourcing is a well known strategy to have security of supply and price pressure on competing suppliers. If or if not sees this more important then new technologys which might give a competitive advantage is unknown. Unknown is capacity and demand on Sharps production line.

Wild guessing around is ok but should be marked as such and not come across as known facts like the statements above.

Too many statements? I made one point regarding display yield rates which is likely to be a factor involved given how new the technology is. In no way was I making an authoritative statement.

People need to relax a little, this is a message board, not a research paper in review awaiting publication.

 

[PaulSpr]

Reasonable 15" retina Macbook Pro Haswell configurations:

2.0 Ghz quad-core i7
2.0Ghz Core i7-4750HQ
Turbo-boost up to 3.2Ghz
8GB 1600Mhz RAM
256GB SSD (PCIe)
Intel Iris Pro 5200
nVidia Geforce GT 750M with 1GB DDR5

2.3 Ghz quad-core i7
2.3Ghz Core i7-4850HQ
Turbo-boost up to 3.5Ghz
16GB 1600Mhz RAM
512GB SSD (PCIe)
Intel Iris Pro 5200
nVidia Geforce GT 750M with 1GB DDR5
- Optional upgrade to the Core i7-4950HQ (2.4Ghz, boost up to 3.6Ghz)


Less probable, but still possible, 15" retina Macbook Pro Haswell configurations:

2.4 Ghz quad-core i7
2.4Ghz Core i7-4700MQ
Turbo-boost up to 3.4Ghz
8GB 1600Mhz RAM
256GB SSD (PCIe)
Intel HD 4600
nVidia Geforce GT 765M with 2GB DDR5

2.7 Ghz quad-core i7
2.7Ghz Core i7-4800MQ
Turbo-boost up to 3.7Ghz
16GB 1600Mhz RAM
512GB SSD (PCIe)
Intel HD 4600
nVidia Geforce GT 765M with 2GB DDR5
- Optional upgrade to the Core i7-4900MQ (2.8Ghz, boost up to 3.8Ghz, 8MB L3 cache)
- Optional upgrade to 32GB RAM

 

[CmdrLaForge]

Too many statements? I made one point regarding display yield rates which is likely to be a factor involved given how new the technology is. In no way was I making an authoritative statement.

People need to relax a little, this is a message board, not a research paper in review awaiting publication.

Sorry, I wasn't clear. I didn't mean you in particular as someone who made too many statements but in general in the forums. It was unfortunately your statement that triggered my response.

And yes - I agree - it is a message board and not by any means academic. Therefore we find people with huge differences in age, maturity, academic degree, job experience and so forth which is reflected in their posts and that is the nature of such forums and fine.

Anyway - lets look forward for those new Haswell MBP, whenever they arrive. My personal feeling is around September to October and that is mainly because Apple had a historical cycle of 9 month on MBP (with exceptions) and the last release was February (even so it was a minor one).

 

[Creep89]

Does anyone know how the actual i7 with 2,3Ghz performs compared to the new 4750HQ? It's 2,3Ghz vs. 2Ghz, and the new Haswell isn't that faster to close the 300Mhz gap to the old i7. I can't imagine Apple using slower cpus..

 

[Blue Sun]

Sorry, I wasn't clear. I didn't mean you in particular as someone who made too many statements but in general in the forums. It was unfortunately your statement that triggered my response.

And yes - I agree - it is a message board and not by any means academic. Therefore we find people with huge differences in age, maturity, academic degree, job experience and so forth which is reflected in their posts and that is the nature of such forums and fine.

Anyway - lets look forward for those new Haswell MBP, whenever they arrive. My personal feeling is around September to October and that is mainly because Apple had a historical cycle of 9 month on MBP (with exceptions) and the last release was February (even so it was a minor one).

I thought that may have been the case.

September or October is my guess for Haswell rMBPs as well, but I'm still hoping a July or August refresh eventuates.

 

[Wuiffi]

Reasonable 15" retina Macbook Pro Haswell configurations:

2.0 Ghz quad-core i7
2.0Ghz Core i7-4750HQ
Turbo-boost up to 3.2Ghz
8GB 1600Mhz RAM
256GB SSD (PCIe)
Intel Iris Pro 5200
nVidia Geforce GT 750M with 1GB DDR5

2.3 Ghz quad-core i7
2.3Ghz Core i7-4850HQ
Turbo-boost up to 3.5Ghz
16GB 1600Mhz RAM
512GB SSD (PCIe)
Intel Iris Pro 5200
nVidia Geforce GT 750M with 1GB DDR5
- Optional upgrade to the Core i7-4950HQ (2.4Ghz, boost up to 3.6Ghz)


Less probable, but still possible, 15" retina Macbook Pro Haswell configurations:

2.4 Ghz quad-core i7
2.4Ghz Core i7-4700MQ
Turbo-boost up to 3.4Ghz
8GB 1600Mhz RAM
256GB SSD (PCIe)
Intel HD 4600
nVidia Geforce GT 765M with 2GB DDR5

2.7 Ghz quad-core i7
2.7Ghz Core i7-4800MQ
Turbo-boost up to 3.7Ghz
16GB 1600Mhz RAM
512GB SSD (PCIe)
Intel HD 4600
nVidia Geforce GT 765M with 2GB DDR5
- Optional upgrade to the Core i7-4900MQ (2.8Ghz, boost up to 3.8Ghz, 8MB L3 cache)
- Optional upgrade to 32GB RAM

I see no way they put an Iris Pro AND a dedicated GPU into the Macbook. Why would they, they are only like 20-30% apart!
Take your second configurations but with weaker GPUs (750m, maybe 760m) and you will end up, with what we might get. Either that, or Iris Pro only

Does anyone know how the actual i7 with 2,3Ghz performs compared to the new 4750HQ? It's 2,3Ghz vs. 2Ghz, and the new Haswell isn't that faster to close the 300Mhz gap to the old i7. I can't imagine Apple using slower cpus..

Haswell tends to be roughly 10% faster clock per clock than Ivy

The i7-4950HQ (2.4 Ghz) outperformed the current i7-3720QM (2.6 GHz) by about 13% (average), due to new architecture, eDRAM and other stuff. It should be the same for all other HQ (Iris Pro) chips. So a 2.0 Ghz version would most likely be faster than the the current 2.3/2.4 Ghz models.

 

[Livewings]

Does anyone know how the actual i7 with 2,3Ghz performs compared to the new 4750HQ? It's 2,3Ghz vs. 2Ghz, and the new Haswell isn't that faster to close the 300Mhz gap to the old i7. I can't imagine Apple using slower cpus..

Something that people have to know. Clockspeed isn't everything. It's not even barely close to measure a way of performance. If this is true, the 3.6Ghz Pentium 4 is fastest CPU in the world then.

Anyways, Haswell's IPC is better Ivy Bridge so I'm expecting similar or better performance.

 

[hammm]

Super excited about the prospect of having a 13" rMBP with the 12hr battery life of 2013 MBA 13".

Anyone else thinks it's a possibility? I mean MBA had a 2W drop from 17W to 15W and a minor increase in battery capacity, and look how much more battery life Haswell manage to squeeze out.

If the geekbench benchmark is true, then it's a 7W drop from 35W to 28W for the 13" rMBP. Coupled with a modest increase in battery capacity, I do think it's possible to get the same 12hrs battery life, if not close.

I'm ready to throw my money at Apple, sell me the damn rMBP already!

 

[Livewings]

Super excited about the prospect of having a 13" rMBP with the 12hr battery life of 2013 MBA 13".

Anyone else thinks it's a possibility? I mean MBA had a 2W drop from 17W to 15W and a minor increase in battery capacity, and look how much more battery life Haswell manage to squeeze out.

If the geekbench benchmark is true, then it's a 7W drop from 35W to 28W for the 13" rMBP. Coupled with a modest increase in battery capacity, I do think it's possible to get the same 12hrs battery life, if not close.

I'm ready to throw my money at Apple, sell me the damn rMBP already!

It's not even a possibility, it's already a confirmed thing, so just wait it out.

 

[Wuiffi]

Super excited about the prospect of having a 13" rMBP with the 12hr battery life of 2013 MBA 13".

Anyone else thinks it's a possibility? I mean MBA had a 2W drop from 17W to 15W and a minor increase in battery capacity, and look how much more battery life Haswell manage to squeeze out.

If the geekbench benchmark is true, then it's a 7W drop from 35W to 28W for the 13" rMBP. Coupled with a modest increase in battery capacity, I do think it's possible to get the same 12hrs battery life, if not close.

I'm ready to throw my money at Apple, sell me the damn rMBP already!

There are a few things you need to consider when you talk about battery life and TDP. First: what Apple tells you about battery life is with light use (loading a webpage every few minutes) and with reduced brightness. Not TDP is important there, idle power is. With the move to the U-Series (as far as I know) this would bring new (lower) power sleep states (C10). Normal mobile CPUs only go up to (C6).
However, according to Intels side, the i5-4258U (shown in the geekbench results) does NOT support LPDDR3 RAM, that the MBA uses. Furthermore the display does use a lot more energy.
I guess, battery life WILL improve, but not as much as it did with the Macbook Air

 

[Serban]

2012 models 13" MBA and 13" rMBP...both of them up to 7h battery, and in real life both of them like 4.5-5h of normal usage for me. So if they say rBP 13" will last up to 12h..than is the same think like MBA.

 

[ValSalva]

As I understand it IGZO is just a way to build a traditional backlit LCD panel using a different process and set of materials to let more light through, thus requiring a smaller backlight for the same brightness.

OLED is a completely different technology than backlit LCD panels.

Thanks, good to know. The last thing I wanted on the Mac was a supersaturated and unnatural display.

 

[devilcm3]

that is a IGZO display.

yes you are missing something, the 13'' panels have been in production before the kirabook was launched, the new lines are for the 14 and 15. Fujitsu, asus, acer, hp and other brands are getting IGZO displays in some of their notebooks.

I still don't get, could you just simply point out which model of the 2012 notebook that is using the IGZO?

thats a lot more than what the rmbp offers, which is no wonder why people are jumping ship from apple, they expected better not on par (the ips displays are on par to what you have on the cmbp). not to mention the very large dissatisfaction with the mac pro, despite the 2 w9000 that they pack.

um....
why would they choose the cMBP in the first place if they know that those numbers are not up to aRGB standard?
i don't think professionals who work in imaging/printing industry would be uninformed enough to not research about how bad the cMBP screen color is for their work.
besides, the cMBP has been around for years.

well even though many said that TN panels will never beat IPS in terms of quality, those TN panels in cMBP are of good quality in the first place. the main feature in the rMBP is the increased pixel density.

----------

Thanks, good to know. The last thing I wanted on the Mac was a supersaturated and unnatural display.

and Samsung would call it as "rich and vibrant"

 

[netcastle]

I agree with this statement totally!

There should be a referencing system on mac rumours which will in turn lend to higher credibility. When you write an academic paper you can't make up actualities in your thesis as you need solid proof for reasoning. Too many willy nilly fabrications here....

Seriously! This site is called MacRumors.

Here's some speculation for you. Maybe they don't want to release new MBP's until the fingerprint technology rumored for the 5s is ready. I have this speculation based on the good authority of all the other speculators here.

For everyone complaining about speculators and fabricators at MACRUMORS, consider your audience.

 

[sofianito]

Any forecast for the upcoming 13" rMBP configurations?

IGZO display + Iris pro + 16GB RAM + 512GB PCI flash + WiFi AC is likely a dream configuration for non intensive gamers / 3D designers, and I believe it could make huge sales for Apple if it is reasonably priced... How much do you think it would cost?

 

[Vukmon]

One more noob question: Is there any chance that Apple make redesign on RAM slots, so we can add more RAM like on cMBP.

 

[PeterJP]

It's actually not so modest. The new 15W part has the PCH on the chip (so included in the 15W) whereas the 17W part used to have a separate PCH (so not included in the 17W).

That would mean the benefit of going from 35W to 28W will be slightly bigger as well, but the % made up by putting the PCH on chip is smaller than in the case of the MBA.

First: what Apple tells you about battery life is with light use (loading a webpage every few minutes) and with reduced brightness.

Yes, but since Haswell now, Apple has gone up from 50% to 75% (according to Anand) for their benchmarks.

I guess, battery life WILL improve, but not as much as it did with the Macbook Air

We'll see. The power hungry screen in the rMBP indeed lowers the impact of the processor. On the other hand, if the CPU goes from a 35W to a 28W part (also moving the PCH on chip), the total impact of the CPU+PCH power reduction is quite large. If Apple manages to squeeze in slightly bigger batteries, too, then we might actually see an rMBP that also lasts for 12 hours.


Peter.

 

[Mr MM]

I still don't get, could you just simply point out which model of the 2012 notebook that is using the IGZO?

what you dont get it? there are no notebooks in 2012 that use IGZO, its a simple matter of stock. You have to have them before you send out those units.

or it was a typo and you want to know the models that are so far paper launched?

envy spectre 14, acer s7, zenbook infinity, fujitsu UH90L. The U51vx was state to receive the igzo treatment as well

um....
why would they choose the cMBP in the first place if they know that those numbers are not up to aRGB standard?
i don't think professionals who work in imaging/printing industry would be uninformed enough to not research about how bad the cMBP screen color is for their work.
besides, the cMBP has been around for years.

they know. However you forget that software is also something that you need to work. Adobe each version has been making more strides on their windows version than their OSX version, its thus that some of the their apps already run better on windows. Now some can run those elitebooks and precisions

However they did wanted a better display, its a simple matter of evolution.

well even though many said that TN panels will never beat IPS in terms of quality, those TN panels in cMBP are of good quality in the first place. the main feature in the rMBP is the increased pixel density.

TN displays can beat IPS displays, its a matter of quality, the x220/230 have an option for IPS, its a standard fare display simply put, it has good viewing angles thats all, or the one equipping the sony vaio s15, asus u51 and some other 15 notebooks is just an average display, and get raves because its IPS, when you do have the competitor that is a TN display clevo, msi [only on customized models from boutiques], w520/530

and Samsung would call it as "rich and vibrant"

because it is, its not calibrated properly

and it was a very common complain on those OLED panels, to be oversaturated

 

[ssmK]

My hat goes off to those of you who are waiting for Haswell. I just didn't want to wait anymore and picked up the 2.7/16/512 15" rMBP yesterday. I'm enjoying it very much for what it's worth. The Apple Store manager told me I'd be able to pick up any Back-To-School promotion that may occur in the next 14-days. I will certainly be bummed if Haswell comes out very soon, but still outside of my return window. Such is the nature of instant gratification in this case!

 

[Uliman]

Prior to the 6/10 announcement I was hanging around on the MBA sub-forum awaiting the release of a Retina MBA. I love my 2012 MBA but, as many others, I am less than enthralled by the display. Of course, I was disappointed when that product failed to materialize. I gradually started visiting this sub-forum in the hopes that one of the prognosticator's prediction of a "slimmer" rMBP would come true.

What are thoughts on this? I know there is only 1/2 pound difference between the 13" MBA and the 13" rMBP but I truly love the form factor of the MBA. A little more svelte on the rMBP would really be great. Might this be the case?

Also very disappointed in the performance of the new Haswell i5/i7 CPUs that the MBA received. So regardless of whether the slimming will occur I am in for the new rMBP when they come out. For me power and display are my priorities. 12 hours battery life is outstanding but not on the top of my list.