Waiting for the 2018 MBP

[The Mercurian]

For sure, but just for a moment, do you think this is completely impossibile or we have a chance this time with your experience accordingly?Next quad will have the right TDP?
For example, what about maxed up dual core Macbook( and the end of the Air ) , a pro 13 quad core and quad with bto to exacore for the 15?

My thinking is that they will do something in the next couple of months - but not a full refresh of the MBP line. So I think there are two things we might see:

1. Quad-core 13"s. Why? Because the made the latest 13" available on the refurb store relatively early - and haven't made the 15" available there (AFAIK). I also think they will simply have to do so if all their competitors do so. This being said - I don't know if the quad-cores would need new motherboards or could slot into existing design. IF need new motherboards its less likely.

2. We might see the rumoured "true pro" 15" MBP with perhaps hex-core, perhaps 32GB RAM. I think this is less likely than quad-core 13"s but I would not rule it out since that bloke with the good track record predicted a new high spec machine.

Otherwise I don't see the line-ups changing so soon after the last update. This is mere speculation of course (with a dash of wishful thinking for good measure) - I would not bet the farm on either option coming to pass.

 

[ls1dreams]

So,if i understand correctly, no quad core will land on 13?
Meanwhile ,this means?Next is Coffee Lake isn't it,this is for...2019?
https://9to5mac.com/2017/08/15/intel-ice-lake-processor/

The real question is - what you want a 15w quad core chip? In order to keep from throttling, the chip would probably be limited to slower frequencies and have a weaker igpu.

Given that the majority of users today would be better off with 2 fast cores rather than 4 slower cores, I'm not sure that it would make sense more most users.

Specs on the chip are here: http://wccftech.com/intel-coffee-lake-core-i7-8550u-leak/

Basically you're looking at an options that look like this:

2017 non-TB 15w chip: 2.3-2.5 ghz base (3.6-4.0 ghz boost). Geekbench range 4300-4600/9200-9500
2017 TB 28w chip: 3.1-3.3 ghz base (3.7-4.0 ghz boost). Geekbench range 4200-4600/8900-9600
2018 15w quad core chip: 1.8ghz base (unknown boost, maybe none?). Geekbench 4600/12,000

A few geekbench stats for the new i7-8550U show the single threaded score in the 4600 range and multithreaded score in the 12,000 range. Boost scores are misleading, though, since they can't always be sustained.

Some googling seems to indicate that it uses the intel HD 620 graphics chipset, which is slower than even the bottom model of the current 2017 macbooks (GT 640)

So, I guess a quad-core makes sense if:

(a) You are OK living with short boost modes, and
(b) A slower igpu
(c) Possibly might only have a single noisy fan like the current 15w non-TB models

It will be really interesting to see how apple positions this chip since it's base clock is much weaker and more similar to the non-TB models right now.

I'd personally like to see a 28w version of this chip that has more oomph and a better igpu, but will work in a 13" compared to the 54w TDP chips that are in the 15" models. That's the dream.

 

[Mr. Dee]

No

Coffee lake is for chips with high TDPs like the 35 TDP that is in the MBP.

Cannonlake is 10nm and is going to be for lower TDPs like you find in the Air. Intel is still having trouble getting good yields out of the high TDP variants so they may skip it entirely and go straight to Icelake.

In short it's likely Intel may never deliver - or deliver super late chips suitable for a MBP so it may be skipped entirely.

Huh? No what?

Intel's current plan is to split the desktop and laptop chips up. Desktop chips will stick with 14nm variants, currently Kaby Lake and soon Coffee Lake. Laptop chips will diverge; there will be not only 14nm++ Coffee Lake laptop parts but also 10nm Cannon Lake parts. Ian Cutress at AnandTech speculates that the split will be driven by core size and power; the smaller 15W parts will be Cannon Lakes because small chips will maximize the yields of the new 10nm process. Larger processors, from 35W and up, will stick with 14nm++ and Coffee Lake.

Source: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/201...ip-plans-ice-lake-and-a-slow-10nm-transition/

Don't see how anything I said was wrong.

 

[gadgetfreaky]

Huh? No what?

Intel's current plan is to split the desktop and laptop chips up. Desktop chips will stick with 14nm variants, currently Kaby Lake and soon Coffee Lake. Laptop chips will diverge; there will be not only 14nm++ Coffee Lake laptop parts but also 10nm Cannon Lake parts. Ian Cutress at AnandTech speculates that the split will be driven by core size and power; the smaller 15W parts will be Cannon Lakes because small chips will maximize the yields of the new 10nm process. Larger processors, from 35W and up, will stick with 14nm++ and Coffee Lake.

Source: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/201...ip-plans-ice-lake-and-a-slow-10nm-transition/

Don't see how anything I said was wrong.

The later part of your paragraph is correct. The split will be by power- not that Cannonlake will be just for laptops and Coffeeake is desktop only. Good news is we'll be able to see if I'm wrong Monday when Intel goes through CoffeeLake which will include chips for laptops contrary to your posts which I believe to be in error.

 

[2IS]

My waiting game officially ended today with the delivery of my 13" 2017 MBP with TouchBar. Got the 3.1GHz i5, 16GB, 512SSD. Absolutely gigantic upgrading coming from a late 2010 MBA. I was playing the waiting game for the last 4 years but the combination of a slightly faster MBP with a slightly lower price for the 13" and my recent work flow has me doing a lot more "on site" work than work from home where I have a nice desktop was enough for me to pull the trigger.

I was initially concerned with the amount of dongles/adapters I'd have to use but I found one at Amazon that has 3 USB 3 ports, gigabit ethernet, HDMI, SD card, micro SD and a USB C passthrough for power and so far it's been working great.

 

[Patcell]

My waiting game officially ended today with the delivery of my 13" 2017 MBP with TouchBar. Got the 3.1GHz i5, 16GB, 512SSD. Absolutely gigantic upgrading coming from a late 2010 MBA. I was playing the waiting game for the last 4 years but the combination of a slightly faster MBP with a slightly lower price for the 13" and my recent work flow has me doing a lot more "on site" work than work from home where I have a nice desktop was enough for me to pull the trigger.

I was initially concerned with the amount of dongles/adapters I'd have to use but I found one at Amazon that has 3 USB 3 ports, gigabit ethernet, HDMI, SD card, micro SD and a USB C passthrough for power and so far it's been working great.

Too bad... I hear the 2025 model is going to be a real screamer...

JK... Congrats on the new machine! Enjoy it in good health!

 

[Appleaker]

For sure, but just for a moment, do you think this is completely impossibile or we have a chance this time with ?Next quad will have the right TDP?

Well we've known for a year now (pre-2016 redesign) that there is a chance of a quad-core in the 13" MBP in 2018 (although Intel ha pushed the release to later 2017). Although then, we saw that there was only models with a low TDP and had the GT2e graphics. Now 28W quad-cores are also expected, as well as quad-cores with GT3e graphics.

It's possible, and I would say likely, but it really depends on the mobile lineup Intel produce.

 

[2IS]

Too bad... I hear the 2025 model is going to be a real screamer...

JK... Congrats on the new machine! Enjoy it in good health!

No worries, 2025 is probbaly when I'll upgrade this guy

 

[Mr. Dee]

Before March 2018 but no later looks realistic. Intel even announced the successor to Coffee Lake today code named Ice Lake. Apparently, Cannon Lake 10+ will exclusively be a mobile release, while Ice Lake 10++ will include yields for both desktop and laptops. So, we are gonna see a mix release going into 2018: New iMacs with Coffee Lake for a while and MacBook Pro's rapidly moving from Coffee Lake (early 2018) to Cannon Lake (late 2018). So, an Ice Lake MacBook Pro would be around June 2019.

Also, Apple could also throttle the releases: Retina MacBooks with Coffee Lake in March, WWDC 2018 MacBook Pro's with Coffee Lake. Repeat it again for Cannon Lake.

The later part of your paragraph is correct. The split will be by power- not that Cannonlake will be just for laptops and Coffeeake is desktop only. Good news is we'll be able to see if I'm wrong Monday when Intel goes through CoffeeLake which will include chips for laptops contrary to your posts which I believe to be in error.

Where in my previous reply did I say Coffee lake would be desktop only? I said, desktops Macs will be with Coffeelake for a while until Intel get the appropriate yields up to snuff under Ice Lake 10++. Also, I meant in the interpretation of Apple's product line. While, desktops and laptops from them will be released with Coffee Lake, desktops will be stranded on Coffee Lake as Apple moves its laptops from Coffee Lake to Cannon Lake, but the desktops will catch back at Ice Lake.

 

[TheHurryKayne]

The real question is - what you want a 15w quad core chip? In order to keep from throttling, the chip would probably be limited to slower frequencies and have a weaker igpu.

Given that the majority of users today would be better off with 2 fast cores rather than 4 slower cores, I'm not sure that it would make sense more most users.

Specs on the chip are here: http://wccftech.com/intel-coffee-lake-core-i7-8550u-leak/

Basically you're looking at an options that look like this:

2017 non-TB 15w chip: 2.3-2.5 ghz base (3.6-4.0 ghz boost). Geekbench range 4300-4600/9200-9500
2017 TB 28w chip: 3.1-3.3 ghz base (3.7-4.0 ghz boost). Geekbench range 4200-4600/8900-9600
2018 15w quad core chip: 1.8ghz base (unknown boost, maybe none?). Geekbench 4600/12,000

A few geekbench stats for the new i7-8550U show the single threaded score in the 4600 range and multithreaded score in the 12,000 range. Boost scores are misleading, though, since they can't always be sustained.

Some googling seems to indicate that it uses the intel HD 620 graphics chipset, which is slower than even the bottom model of the current 2017 macbooks (GT 640)

So, I guess a quad-core makes sense if:

(a) You are OK living with short boost modes, and
(b) A slower igpu
(c) Possibly might only have a single noisy fan like the current 15w non-TB models

It will be really interesting to see how apple positions this chip since it's base clock is much weaker and more similar to the non-TB models right now.

I'd personally like to see a 28w version of this chip that has more oomph and a better igpu, but will work in a 13" compared to the 54w TDP chips that are in the 15" models. That's the dream.

Ok,got it,very kind,i understand and a 13-28 w quad version is my dream as well since now .Thanks for the explanation.
[doublepost=1502961858][/doublepost]

Well we've known for a year now (pre-2016 redesign) that there is a chance of a quad-core in the 13" MBP in 2018 (although Intel ha pushed the release to later 2017). Although then, we saw that there was only models with a low TDP and had the GT2e graphics. Now 28W quad-cores are also expected, as well as quad-cores with GT3e graphics.

It's possible, and I would say likely, but it really depends on the mobile lineup Intel produce.

ok, thanks, we will see ,i think a 13 pro with a good quad and a good igpu would sell like hot cake

 

[The Mercurian]

ok, thanks, we will see ,i think a 13 pro with a good quad and a good igpu would sell like hot cake

Agreed. The main reason I've bought 15" in the past is for quad core. If there was a 13" quad core option I'd probably go for that instead. Although that might change if the 15" had a hexcore option

 

[Appleaker]

Ok,got it,very kind,i understand and a 13-28 w quad version is my dream as well since now .Thanks for the explanation.
[doublepost=1502961858][/doublepost]
ok, thanks, we will see ,i think a 13 pro with a good quad and a good igpu would sell like hot cake

Personally I wouldn’t mind if it has a 15W quad-core and dGPU ( MX150 or AMD 15W alternative) for the high end 13” Pro.

 

[CmdrLaForge]

Agreed. The main reason I've bought 15" in the past is for quad core. If there was a 13" quad core option I'd probably go for that instead. Although that might change if the 15" had a hexcore option

For writing purposes I would like a 15" - a dual core would serve me just fine

 

[The Mercurian]

For writing purposes I would like a 15" - a dual core would serve me just fine

Aye I hear you. But for airplane seat purposes I'm swayed back to 13"

Edit: I actually think they should move to 12", 14", 16" formats

 

[TheralSadurns]

This!
Have a 12" and 14" MacBook
And a 14" and 16" MacBook Pro

Like back in the old days with iBooks and PowerBooks

 

[wallysb01]

For writing purposes I would like a 15" - a dual core would serve me just fine

Agreed, so long as it was a very fast duel core, and not some nerfed version.

 

[CmdrLaForge]

Agreed, so long as it was a very fast duel core, and not some nerfed version.

My main point is of course that I would like a more affordable 15”. I don’t have anything against a quad core in generell and prefer that of course. To me the current price in Euro is prohibitive for the 15”. I just think they should not only offer affordable 12” and 13” models but also affordable 15” models. Not everyone who wants 15” needs all the power and is therefore ok to pay for it. Btw I do need a lot of storage e.g. 1TB or more. So I think this should be BTO as much as possible.

 

[argentum47]

My main point is of course that I would like a more affordable 15”. I don’t have anything against a quad core in generell and prefer that of course. To me the current price in Euro is prohibitive for the 15”. I just think they should not only offer affordable 12” and 13” models but also affordable 15” models. Not everyone who wants 15” needs all the power and is therefore ok to pay for it. Btw I do need a lot of storage e.g. 1TB or more. So I think this should be BTO as much as possible.

Agreed, not only for the affordability, but also that by moving to dual core, iGPU-only, and non-TB, they can cut the weight on the 15" significantly. We're seeing many sub-3lb 15" laptops in the market, which Apple doesn't provide any counterpart to. Currently for Apple's laptops, large screen means $2,400 (minimum) and 4lb. There is certainly a non-negligible market for a more portable and affordable large-screen laptop from Apple.

 

[TheralSadurns]

Srsly people. Neither the current MacBook Pro... NOR the previous rMBP generation was TOO heavy at 15"!!!
Can everybody please just stop with the bullsh*t?!

I get it. You want a thin and light machine... with a screen size bigger than 12"/13.3". The solution to this is NOT to make the Macbook PRO thinner, lighter, and less powerful. But to make a BIGGER MacBook. As a Pro machine it is already ridiculously thin and light. So much so that Apple had to start to gimp the MacBook Pro and only have a good CPU... but keep a small amount of crappy DDR3 and pair it with a half-way decent GPU... rather than a good one.
If anything the MacBook Pro needs to become THICKER and MORE powerful. Not the otherway around!

 

[CmdrLaForge]

Srsly people. Neither the current MacBook Pro... NOR the previous rMBP generation was TOO heavy at 15"!!!
Can everybody please just stop with the bullsh*t?!

I get it. You want a thin and light machine... with a screen size bigger than 12"/13.3". The solution to this is NOT to make the Macbook PRO thinner, lighter, and less powerful. But to make a BIGGER MacBook. As a Pro machine it is already ridiculously thin and light. So much so that Apple had to start to gimp the MacBook Pro and only have a good CPU... but keep a small amount of crappy DDR3 and pair it with a half-way decent GPU... rather than a good one.
If anything the MacBook Pro needs to become THICKER and MORE powerful. Not the otherway around!

All I can say is that my 13“ rMBP from 2013 with 1TB SSD and 16 GB RAM ist plenty fast enough for me. Perfect machine. I paid €2400 back then. Same machine today with a touchbar runs just under €3000. If I would buy one I wouldn’t see any difference and the 15“ is even more expensive.

But as I have to write a lot more these days and I like to have two apps next to each other while doing so the 13“ screen is just a bit to small for my eyes. E.g. like Pages and Safari.

So my 13“ spec in a more affordable 15“ is what I would like. I could get a HP Spectre for €1000 that’s a 1/3 of the price Apple is asking and I could do in principle the same with it.

 

[argentum47]

The solution to this is NOT to make the Macbook PRO thinner, lighter, and less powerful. But to make a BIGGER MacBook.

I agree with this. What I suggested wasn't to replace the MBP with something that is more gimped than it already is. It was a proposition for a bigger Macbook (or a bigger nTB 13" MBP, but drop the Pro monicker as it really doesn't belong there).

low perf...high perf​

small screen .....MB.....13" MBP
large screen .....???.....15" MBP

Basically, we'd want something that fills that hole.

 

[TheralSadurns]

I agree with this. What I suggested wasn't to replace the MBP with something that is more gimped than it already is. It was a proposition for a bigger Macbook (or a bigger nTB 13" MBP, but drop the Pro monicker as it really doesn't belong there).

low perf...high perf​

small screen .....MB.....13" MBP
large screen .....???.....15" MBP

Basically, we'd want something that fills that hole.

Ah okay ya. In a way what I suggested earlier... with 12" and 14" MB and 14" 16" MBP... so that there is some overlap when it comes to screen-size... and it's a bit more consolidated generally.

 

[wallysb01]

My main point is of course that I would like a more affordable 15”. I don’t have anything against a quad core in generell and prefer that of course. To me the current price in Euro is prohibitive for the 15”. I just think they should not only offer affordable 12” and 13” models but also affordable 15” models. Not everyone who wants 15” needs all the power and is therefore ok to pay for it. Btw I do need a lot of storage e.g. 1TB or more. So I think this should be BTO as much as possible.

Exactly. I don't need a touch bar and could do without a quad core, but want the screen space. Just give it a respectable duel core is all I'm saying, because while I don't need a lot of multicore performance (I have workstations for that), I do still need some performance. Apple has had a tendency to go too low on these budget models, like the non-retina 21.5" iMac with the 5200 rpm HDD and the ultrabook CPU 7360U. I guess I'm not sure what the exact offering from Intel would be, especially if you also want to drop the dGPU, which would mean getting an Iris Plus iGPU in there, but I'd hope they wouldn't nerf the thing beyond all belief. I'm sure if this was something Apple really wanted, they could convince Intel to provide a reasonable chip for such thing.

 

[ls1dreams]

Exactly. I don't need a touch bar and could do without a quad core, but want the screen space. Just give it a respectable duel core is all I'm saying, because while I don't need a lot of multicore performance (I have workstations for that), I do still need some performance. Apple has had a tendency to go too low on these budget models, like the non-retina 21.5" iMac with the 5200 rpm HDD and the ultrabook CPU 7360U. I guess I'm not sure what the exact offering from Intel would be, especially if you also want to drop the dGPU, which would mean getting an Iris Plus iGPU in there, but I'd hope they wouldn't nerf the thing beyond all belief. I'm sure if this was something Apple really wanted, they could convince Intel to provide a reasonable chip for such thing.

One thing I'm trying to figure out is just how bad that 15w 7360u is. I've seen a few benchmarks to seem to indicate that it can sustain burst modes for quite a long time, and even seems to somehow be outperforming the 3.1ghz base model cpus sometimes, but benchmarks showing sustained use are tough to come by.

Check out this review of a 2016 model: the 15w chip somehow managed to outperform the 28w chip.
https://www.jeffgeerling.com/blog/2017/i-returned-my-2016-macbook-pro-touch-bar

His average build time for the cheaper chip was actually faster somehow!
2016 2.4ghz/3.4ghz boost 15w chip: 7:52 (faster despite lower base AND boost speed)
2016 3.1ghz/3.5ghz boost 28w chip: 8:45

I'm not sure exactly what's going on, but I suspect there just may be a lot of variance around thermal throttling going on and where boost speeds end up landing.

 

[CmdrLaForge]

Ah okay ya. In a way what I suggested earlier... with 12" and 14" MB and 14" 16" MBP... so that there is some overlap when it comes to screen-size... and it's a bit more consolidated generally.

Without bezels. iPhone 8 design!