Waiting for the 2018 MBP

[socialwill]

OK guys, i have to be honest with you all. i got a 2017 15" macbook pro fall of last year and its been a great upgrade compared to my previous 2013 macbook air. However, I went on a trip with my parents recently and decided to leave my laptop at home (I guess this was a sign already) since my dad mentioned he would bring his (2012 rMBP).

...I liked the 2012 rMBP better in terms of the feeling of the trackpad and keys. even though I'm fine with the butterfly keyboard, going back to the chiclet after 7-8 months was quite telling. it felt like going back home despite my 2017 being my daily driver. i refuse to buy a 2015 since its 3 year-old hardware so i feel like i'm just /stuck/ with my 2017 which is by no means a bad computer. but the 2012+ rMBPs just feel better to use. i don't even have a problem with the trackpad size, just the fact that theres no real click. i'm sure this is because apple wanted to make the 15" 0.01 inches thinner or whatever

of course incremental upgrades in the CPU and display quality can't be compared between computers 5 years apart but using my 2017 now just feels different (definitely not as good). apple has really dropped the ball with regards to the mac lately.

I think we will see a revision to the butterfly keyboard, but not the keyboard of yesterday.

What funny is I actually like the idea of the butterfly keyboard as you are getting a key press even in the corner, just need more travel room and a quieter/softer hit.

 

[Gata]

In response to the status symbol argument:

I mainly want a Unix machine that has solid performance, good build quality, good battery life, at least decent gaming performance, and good support. The XPS 15 can work as this, but between the QA issues that the 9570 seems to be having at the moment (idk if those get better over time or not), and the horror stories of Dell customer support, I'd rather just wait it out for a refreshed Vega MBP (which definitely should bring a solid GPU offering to the table, supposedly in the 1050Ti range of performance).

The convenience of being able to walk in for repairs if something breaks is a huge upside, for a device where a component failure means that I usually can't do something about it. It also means that turnaround time is often faster than having to ship it in, get it fixed, and shipped back out. Granted, Apple sometimes has to do this anyway, but at least in my experiences getting a Mac fixed, this wasn't necessary.

 

[unagimiyagi]

This is not hard, apple. Keep the exact same form factor of the 2015 macbook pros. Just upgrade the chips and add a single usb c port. Done. Everyone would be happy. For some reason Apple has completely overthought this. People want cutting edge design the first six months, but 5 years after the fact of a poor design, people will indeed be happy with a boring design but eminently functional product. That's where we are. We're asking Apple to totally rest on its laurels and simpley reissue its oldest laptops with upgraded chips and 1 additional measly port. That's all. And we're approaching year 5. Thinking different is cool, but not if it replaces thinking rationally.

 

[Gata]

This is not hard, apple. Keep the exact same form factor of the 2015 macbook pros. Just upgrade the chips and add a single usb c port. Done. Everyone would be happy. For some reason Apple has completely overthought this. People want cutting edge design the first six months, but 5 years after the fact of a poor design, people will indeed be happy with a boring design but eminently functional product. That's where we are. We're asking Apple to totally rest on its laurels and simpley reissue its oldest laptops with upgraded chips and 1 additional measly port. That's all. And we're approaching year 5. Thinking different is cool, but not if it replaces thinking rationally.

I think Apple is correct about Thunderbolt 3 over USB-C being a good candidate for "the one port to rule them all", they just jumped the gun a little too early.

I guess there's an argument to be made that them switching over entirely would drive adoption of the port by peripheral manufacturers, but there's a glaring flaw with this approach.

TB3 over USB-C is mainly advantageous for mobile devices, where limited space for ports means that being able to daisy chain six devices is valuable. Desktops can often be upgraded at-will, meaning eGPU solutions, while still feasible to use on a desktop, aren't going to be nearly as viable. The ability to charge your laptop from the wall using USB-C also doesn't translate to desktops. Then, there's finally the fact that desktops don't really have the same limitations on ports that mobile devices do.

This means that USB-C adoption needs to be driven by others in the mobile space, but USB-C can do so much that there's little reason not to include commonly used things like HDMI or regular USB as convenience features, which takes the wind out of the push to adopt.

I think this leaves us with two main unique applications of TB3 over USB-C:
1. eGPU applications
2. High-speed external storage

Both of which are things that are desirable for Macbook Pro users, but might not be terribly important to other users.

 

[Falhófnir]

I think Apple is correct about Thunderbolt 3 over USB-C being a good candidate for "the one port to rule them all", they just jumped the gun a little too early.

I guess there's an argument to be made that them switching over entirely would drive adoption of the port by peripheral manufacturers, but there's a glaring flaw with this approach.

TB3 over USB-C is mainly advantageous for mobile devices, where limited space for ports means that being able to daisy chain six devices is valuable. Desktops can often be upgraded at-will, meaning eGPU solutions, while still feasible to use on a desktop, aren't going to be nearly as viable. The ability to charge your laptop from the wall using USB-C also doesn't translate to desktops. Then, there's finally the fact that desktops don't really have the same limitations on ports that mobile devices do.

This means that USB-C adoption needs to be driven by others in the mobile space, but USB-C can do so much that there's little reason not to include commonly used things like HDMI or regular USB as convenience features, which takes the wind out of the push to adopt.

I think this leaves us with two main unique applications of TB3 over USB-C:
1. eGPU applications
2. High-speed external storage

Both of which are things that are desirable for Macbook Pro users, but might not be terribly important to other users.

Understandable for the MacBook, but for the pro they should at least have included a single legacy A port this gen IMO (or at the very least put the adapter in the box rather than nickel and diming for it!). There’s also the argument that if they kept MagSafe they wouldn’t have the hard 100W component limit that usb power delivery tops out at...

 

[Gata]

Understandable for the MacBook, but for the pro they should at least have included a single legacy A port this gen IMO (or at the very least put the adapter in the box rather than nickel and diming for it!). There’s also the argument that if they kept MagSafe they wouldn’t have the hard 100W component limit that usb power delivery tops out at...

I think that, based on the use cases described above, the average user would be better off with a regular USB 3 port on a machine like the Macbook. The only reason to switch at that point would be for thinness.

Wouldn't Magsafe from last generation be able to fit on the current Macbook Pros?

 

[AdamA9]

Sadly, no.

On older hardware, past a certain version of OS X macOS, it is actively disabled but can be re-enlabled through a terminal command. On newer hardware however, its been removed entirely.

Is this true? My Late 2013 Retina Macbook Pro has the chime still and I'm on the latest High Sierra. I've never re-enabled it. It has just always been there.

I think Apple is correct about Thunderbolt 3 over USB-C being a good candidate for "the one port to rule them all", they just jumped the gun a little too early.

In three years time, those who bought a 2017 Macbook Pro will be thankful* that they don't need a dongle for their peripherals to convert it from a USB-C input to their old legacy USB-A port on their laptop.

*you hope...

 

[navaira]

In three years time, those who bought a 2017 Macbook Pro will be

...really really upset having to pay $700 for top case replacement...

 

[Ma2k5]

...really really upset having to pay $700 for top case replacement...

I yearn for the day where laptops are as reliable as mobile phones, which to date (over 15 years) I've only ever had accidental damage and no manufacturing defect outside warranty.

Obviously some mobile phones will have some manufacturing defects, but the RMA rates of mobile phones seem invisible compared to laptops (or even Monitors it seems, which now fall under the lottery category!).

 

[Anandc]

Is there anybody who will be buying MBP 2018 (current models)?

I think I will be getting MBP 15inch 16GB RAM with Touch Bar.

 

[benface]

Is there anybody who will be buying MBP 2018 (current models)?

I think I will be getting MBP 15inch 16GB RAM with Touch Bar.

What do you mean by “current models”? The current models are 2017’s.

 

[cool11]

I know, we 've discussed it before, but this company should be ashamed to offer for its flagship laptop, the 16gb of maximum ram, like it was back in 2010-11. Where time stood still...
This reason alone, is enough for holding back so many potential and existing customers, beyond the rest of reasons we talk about...

 

[Mr. Dee]

Apple could have sold the old chassis with new chips and USB C port beside the new design thats all USB C with the Touchbar. Make it be a transitional product.

 

[Hadron]

Apple could have sold the old chassis with new chips and USB C port beside the new design thats all USB C with the Touchbar. Make it be a transitional product.

Could have, but that gives an even messier product line plus the risk (from their point of view) that large numbers of customers would reject the new design, which would be both an embarassment and reduce the return on the investment in the redesign. Remember that they won't even take the risk of making TB/nTB a genuine choice (i.e. without severe drawbacks associated with the nTB).

 

[Queen6]

Apple could have sold the old chassis with new chips and USB C port beside the new design thats all USB C with the Touchbar. Make it be a transitional product.

Also a product with a sensible port solution, 25 % larger battery capacity, reliable keyboard and a chassis with more thermal headroom for the new power hungrier hex core CPU's, let alone a better dGPU, being a far more versatile and usable notebook...

Tragically it would be half a pound heavier and a whole 8th of an inch thicker, after all priorities are priorities

Q-6

 

[cs02rm0]

There seems to be an unusual dearth of rumours, just speculation.

This is so frustrating, I'm on the verge of going back to Linux on a Dell laptop and I know that wouldn't be any fun. Hopefully we'll have something by October, but I'm not expecting to be impressed.

Who knows, maybe they'll just be six months behind the curve with a gimmick in place of function keys.

 

[Falhófnir]

I think that, based on the use cases described above, the average user would be better off with a regular USB 3 port on a machine like the Macbook. The only reason to switch at that point would be for thinness.

Wouldn't Magsafe from last generation be able to fit on the current Macbook Pros?

I’d say pro users are more likely to plug accessories in, and more likely to run into adapter issues using those accessories, so from that POV it makes sense to offer legacy connections for them. Regular users are more likely to just want a usb mouse and thumb drive, but again it’s a pain for the layman to have to transfer all the data on a thumb drive to a USB C version, or take an adapter with them wherever they go.

The MagSafe 2 connector is almost identically thick to a USB A so I don’t think it would fit as currently configured

 

[simonmet]

Also a product with a sensible port solution, 25 % larger battery capacity, reliable keyboard and a chassis with more thermal headroom for the new power hungrier hex core CPU's, let alone a better dGPU, being a far more versatile and usable notebook...

Tragically it would be half a pound heavier and a whole 8th of an inch thicker, after all priorities are priorities

Q-6

Add the P3 screen with maybe 120 Hz and upgrade the SD slot and you've got the perfect laptop.

 

[socialwill]

There seems to be an unusual dearth of rumours, just speculation.

This is so frustrating, I'm on the verge of going back to Linux on a Dell laptop and I know that wouldn't be any fun. Hopefully we'll have something by October, but I'm not expecting to be impressed.

Who knows, maybe they'll just be six months behind the curve with a gimmick in place of function keys.

Not a complete dearth of rumors, per Mark at Bloomberg Apple is working on refreshes for the MacBook and MacBook Pro and those are supposed to come out "later this year".

That is anytime between now and December 31, but Sept is the next event and Apple could announce new devices via a Press Release. If it is just a chip update and they needed to iron some details out, they might be launched soon as to be ready for back to school...but that is just an idea and NOT based on any data.

 

[Queen6]

There seems to be an unusual dearth of rumours, just speculation.

This is so frustrating, I'm on the verge of going back to Linux on a Dell laptop and I know that wouldn't be any fun. Hopefully we'll have something by October, but I'm not expecting to be impressed.

Who knows, maybe they'll just be six months behind the curve with a gimmick in place of function keys.

Apple will release the next revision in it's own good time, October, next year... It would indeed be fitting to commemorate the upcoming anniversary of the Mac, equally Apple's likely under pressure to resolve the current flaky keyboard and deal with increased thermals & power demand of the new hex core CPU's.

As ever if your need is now, now is the time to buy

Q-6
[doublepost=1529501833][/doublepost]

Add the P3 screen with maybe 120 Hz and upgrade the SD slot and you've got the perfect laptop.

Exactly preferring to ostracise a good number of professional users, with thinner for the sake of the Starbucks crowd, and ever diminishing returns...

Q-6

 

[CodeJoy]

In response to the status symbol argument:

I mainly want a Unix machine that has solid performance, good build quality, good battery life, at least decent gaming performance, and good support. The XPS 15 can work as this, but between the QA issues that the 9570 seems to be having at the moment (idk if those get better over time or not), and the horror stories of Dell customer support, I'd rather just wait it out for a refreshed Vega MBP (which definitely should bring a solid GPU offering to the table, supposedly in the 1050Ti range of performance).

I'm with you here. A Unix machine with access to mainstream apps and "just works". I've been using Linux off and on since 1992, so I'm certainly no beginner there. But ultimately I'm not buying a laptop so I can sit around configuring the system.* I want a laptop where I can tinker with things when I want to, but most of the time just works. macOS with Macports gives me just about exactly what I'm after.

* Linux distributions certainly got quite streamlined of late, so the situation is much much better than it was. And yet, even with latest Fedora for example, it's still on the level of trying to have a GUI for everything at all, more than having a GUI that is actually well aligned with user tasks. Apple UX design, for all that you could say about it, is just lightyears ahead of Linux UX design. And that makes the system enjoyable to use, whereas with Linux I just don't enjoy it.
[doublepost=1529503040][/doublepost]

I think Apple is correct about Thunderbolt 3 over USB-C being a good candidate for "the one port to rule them all", they just jumped the gun a little too early.

This. For me, there's nothing conceptually wrong as such with the new MBPs. Things went wrong in the execution that breaks the fairytale. Having a machine in their product line with only TB3 ports and touch bar is absolutely fine. What went wrong is the decision to effectively force this on people who are trying to do productive work with their MBPs. Having a machine with a new keyboard that ultimately turns out to be unreliable is... while not fine, it's not a mortal sin in my book. In order to move things forward you sometimes make mistakes. It happens. But what went wrong here is that they risked their entire line of laptops on this.

It's fine to experiment and try new things. And you kinda need to put the products in the hands of end users before you really REALLY know what's right or wrong with them. But it's not fine to make these mistakes for your whole product line, while at the same time either charging double or triple for repairs, or outright refusing repairs altogether. And at the same time doing everything in your power to block 3rd party repairs. That's not a problem with the design concept, that's a problem with judgement and business acumen.

 

[sputnikBA]

Is this true? My Late 2013 Retina Macbook Pro has the chime still and I'm on the latest High Sierra. I've never re-enabled it. It has just always been there.

About Mac startup tones (Apple support doc):

Mac computers introduced before late 2016 make a chime sound when they start up. Mac computers introduced after late 2016 don't have a startup chime, with the exception of MacBook Air (13-inch, 2017).​

As @Mr. Dee said earlier, it was indeed the end of an era. I've just moved over from an old 2008 Pro to an iMac Pro and as much as I'm loving it, the startup not having the chime really feels wrong to me

 

[AdamA9]

About Mac startup tones (Apple support doc):

Mac computers introduced before late 2016 make a chime sound when they start up. Mac computers introduced after late 2016 don't have a startup chime, with the exception of MacBook Air (13-inch, 2017).​

As @Mr. Dee said earlier, it was indeed the end of an era. I've just moved over from an old 2008 Pro to an iMac Pro and as much as I'm loving it, the startup not having the chime really feels wrong to me

Sorry I misread I thought it was saying it was switched off of pre-2016 but not available at all post.

 

[Anandc]

What do you mean by “current models”? The current models are 2017’s.

Yes. My bad. 2017 Models.

I'm going to pay the price of buying 2017 model but I have no option. My laptop is totally screwed and badly needs a replacement.

 

[socialwill]

Yes. My bad. 2017 Models.

I'm going to pay the price of buying 2017 model but I have no option. My laptop is totally screwed and badly needs a replacement.

The good news is you can get 2017 for a little $$ less thanks to deals. Lots of people have had VERY good success with the 2017 models and Apple Care will cover you should anything happen.

Plus I was just thinking that what if the 2018 model comes out, and guess what...there is some issue that is new?