Waiting for the 2018 MBP

[Falhófnir]

It would be something if we could expect Intel to step in and clarify what exactly is and isn't going to be released, but they likely already have to manufacturers so there's no reason to make the knowledge public as 75% of people won't care beyond 'i5' or 'i7' and maybe 'dual core' or 'quad core' ... the TDP, chip graphics, clock speed etc are all just abstracts. This is why they should sort out their naming scheme a bit, having a 28W i5 U series that's faster than a 15W i7 U series when the TDP isn't generally advertised and naming might lead one to think the i7 is better is a bit of a dodgy situation to put your customers in.

Think I'm going to wait for 10nm Ice Lake chips in the 2019? Models, and see if they do come up with an integrated gpu only option to replace the 2015, or at least some sort of replacement for around the same price.

 

[Nik]

Those who are in the thread do not really need a new machine. They want a new machine. I suggest to wait as long as possible, you will know when you really need a new machine. I think upgrading is best within four months after a release because this way you will not be greeted by a new machine just around the corner.

 

[doitdada]

It would be something if we could expect Intel to step in and clarify what exactly is and isn't going to be released, but they likely already have to manufacturers so there's no reason to make the knowledge public as 75% of people won't care beyond 'i5' or 'i7' and maybe 'dual core' or 'quad core' ... the TDP, chip graphics, clock speed etc are all just abstracts. This is why they should sort out their naming scheme a bit, having a 28W i5 U series that's faster than a 15W i7 U series when the TDP isn't generally advertised and naming might lead one to think the i7 is better is a bit of a dodgy situation to put your customers in.

Think I'm going to wait for 10nm Ice Lake chips in the 2019? Models, and see if they do come up with an integrated gpu only option to replace the 2015, or at least some sort of replacement for around the same price.

If you can get a 2016 15" Pro baseline cheap, I would bite the bullet now. They are very low priced at the moment, I got one for 700 dollars less than the baseline 15" 2017. To me the performance is more than sufficient, I occasionally make videos, but most of all I value having 15" of screen estate and the weight is OK to haul around. Programming, database and resource is what most of my day looks like in front of the screen.

WWDC 2019 is a pretty far stretch of waiting.

 

[Falhófnir]

If you can get a 2016 15" Pro baseline cheap, I would bite the bullet now. They are very low priced at the moment, I got one for 700 dollars less than the baseline 15" 2017. To me the performance is more than sufficient, I occasionally make videos, but most of all I value having 15" of screen estate and the weight is OK to haul around. Programming, database and resource is what most of my day looks like in front of the screen.

WWDC 2019 is a pretty far stretch of waiting.

Yeah I have looked and found a couple of (modestly) discounted 2016s, the thing is I'm just tempted by the shiny new design at the moment, there's really no other reason for me to upgrade yet! Keeping my eyes on what's happening though in case there's a development that tips the balance in favour of upgrading - mainly if the baseline gets 512gb storage and even a modest price cut. That's the thing that's stopped me going for an existing model, that I'd want the step-up storage (and of course wasting money on new unnecessary tech!) Hoping they might include 512 with the next refresh instead of going faster with the storage, or introduce a ntb 15" to replace the lingering 2015 model at a more tempting price!

 

[davygee]

The biggest limiting factor IMHO, is the RAM. Here in the UK, I reckon most people buy their Macbook Pro's from other retailers other than Apple, when there are deals around. Ie. when a new model comes out, the older model gets a £300 price cut etc.

The problem is, with the 13" model, you can only get 16GB RAM, if you go directly to Apple or you get a refurbished model. Storage can be expanded via external means, but RAM cannot. And the further down the line we go, for a Pro model, 16GB should become the standard.

I am currently looking around to get a MBP and love the idea of a brand new 2016 TB (8GB/256GB) for £1299 (a deal at the moment), but seriously think getting a 2015 (16GB/128GB) refurbished for £750 is a much better deal for me. Yes the CPU/GPU are significantly better in the 2016 TB model, but seeing as I will be using the MBP for graphic/web design, I honestly think I will potentially get longer out of the refurbished 16GB model.

In any case, I would like to see the new 8th Gen Intel chips in the MBP's next year, but reckon we need to start seeing 16GB RAM and 256GB SSD as a standard....although I doubt it.

 

[doitdada]

Yeah I have looked and found a couple of (modestly) discounted 2016s, the thing is I'm just tempted by the shiny new design at the moment, there's really no other reason for me to upgrade yet! Keeping my eyes on what's happening though in case there's a development that tips the balance in favour of upgrading - mainly if the baseline gets 512gb storage and even a modest price cut. That's the thing that's stopped me going for an existing model, that I'd want the step-up storage (and of course wasting money on new unnecessary tech!) Hoping they might include 512 with the next refresh instead of going faster with the storage, or introduce a ntb 15" to replace the lingering 2015 model at a more tempting price!

You are not even in the market with that approach.

 

[Falhófnir]

You are not even in the market with that approach.

Hence saying I was planning on waiting for the icelake chips/ 2019 models to see what they bring to the table

 

[davygee]

In 2 years, they very possibly will have 512GB SSD as the baseline for the 15" model, although I seriously doubt there will be a big advantage processor wise over the 2018 model. I have the feeling that we should get used to the massive cost for the MBP now. The TB has raised the cost level up £300 and it's likely to stay that way for a while.

 

[Falhófnir]

In 2 years, they very possibly will have 512GB SSD as the baseline for the 15" model, although I seriously doubt there will be a big advantage processor wise over the 2018 model. I have the feeling that we should get used to the massive cost for the MBP now. The TB has raised the cost level up £300 and it's likely to stay that way for a while.

That's what I'm hoping for, would make a £2,349 machine a lot more palatable if you don't have to add £180 on straight off to get a comfortable amount of storage space and also mean I could take advantage of sales by other retailers. In terms of processor, it's already overkill for me, I am perfectly willing to admit - I use the machines for writing, and while it can be pages and pages in a single document, that's still not taxing on a cpu. The allure for me is the power draw/heat reduction of the 10nm architecture - a cooler, longer lasting machine is probably second on my list of things I want. In fairness, a big part of the cost spike in the UK was the fall in the value of the pound between mid 2015 and late 2016 - which has partially reversed now, so I wouldn't rule out a slight price reduction on top of any actual price cut Apple may make to the $ price of the machines in the future.

 

[doitdada]

In 2 years, they very possibly will have 512GB SSD as the baseline for the 15" model.

Well in 2019-2020 applications will take more space, so what does the increased size mean? With H256 10bit HDR movies, larger games with more details in the texture, more advanced features in applications, it will certainly raise the bar. Buy now, or find another hobby. You can wait until your hair is turning space grey.

I find most people on this forum are waiting for reasons to wait even longer, so they don't have to buy. I find the new MacBook Pro better than the old 2015, with the weight, screen and speakers being simply better. Better thermals. Thinner design. USB-C is actually coming along great, and the touch bar is actually pretty good now that it has aged and developers have embraced it. For expose and mission control I use trackpad gestures, so not really missing the dedicated button. I don't edit in VIM, so escape isn't crucial.

Nostalgia is sweet as long as you don't indulge in something new.

 

[muratura]

... and the touch bar is actually pretty good now that it has aged and developers have embraced it. For expose and mission control I use trackpad gestures, so not really missing the dedicated button. I don't edit in VIM, so escape isn't crucial...

Why doesn't the iMac and the new Mac Pro keyboards have teh touchbar? I'm not sure Apple wants to push the touchbar to all their devices and they don't do nothing without research and test the market. Most "Pro" users are ready (as we can see even in the forums here) to pay to have it removed

 

[Glass]

Why doesn't the iMac and the new Mac Pro keyboards have teh touchbar? I'm not sure Apple wants to push the touchbar to all their devices and they don't do nothing without research and test the market. Most "Pro" users are ready (as we can see even in the forums here) to pay to have it removed

I like the touch bar. Just sayin!! I hope they add it to the bluetooth keyboard eventually.. I'd definitely buy that..

 

[davygee]

Why doesn't the iMac and the new Mac Pro keyboards have teh touchbar? I'm not sure Apple wants to push the touchbar to all their devices and they don't do nothing without research and test the market. Most "Pro" users are ready (as we can see even in the forums here) to pay to have it removed

I can't see the TB be implemented into the standard external keyboards as it would cost a fortune. The standard keyboard is $99 right now. Reckon we would be taking about a $199-$299 keyboard with that implemented. Also we won't see TouchID in it as it wouldn't be secure enough.

 

[doitdada]

I can't see the TB be implemented into the standard external keyboards as it would cost a fortune. The standard keyboard is $99 right now. Reckon we would be taking about a $199-$299 keyboard with that implemented. Also we won't see TouchID in it as it wouldn't be secure enough.

A fortune Apple customers have been known to pay.

 

[gpat]

I can't see the TB be implemented into the standard external keyboards as it would cost a fortune. The standard keyboard is $99 right now. Reckon we would be taking about a $199-$299 keyboard with that implemented. Also we won't see TouchID in it as it wouldn't be secure enough.

They should just release a $299 "Magic Desktop" made of a touch bar, new keyboard and magic trackpad all integrated into a single piece of hardware.
Would even be a good deal for some.

 

[TheHurryKayne]

I hope they lower the price a lot,a non touchbar with BTO made of i7,16 GB goes over 2000 euros..
it is way too much for a notebook with just two ports ,i mean i could make an investment this year with this entry pro..and next year jump on the 13 quad core...but not those prices, but i fear Cook won't do this both never ... so i will go for a refurbished ,then i'll resell..please Cook..remember YOUR base,make a Mac Pro modular made of mini's and make a macbook pro at 1500, quad and 16 GB without any touchbar and beloved old one more thing spark

 

[Naimfan]

I just hope they fix the keyboard and trackpad.

 

[Appleaker]

Yes, but the question here is: what about the 15W processors with integrated GT3e graphics for the 13" MacBook pro without touch bar? Will these be cannonlake?

Should I buy now the MacBook pro because the nTB will end it's existence? I can't stand the touchbar.

No... where the hell has all this confusion come from? It's not just you, it's a lot of people. Of course they won't be Cannonlake, they were never going to be and there was no indication that they would be in the past 12 months since these chips were first leaked. 8th gen chips: All 15W chips are Kaby lake R, all 28W chips are Kaby Lake R, all 45W chips are Coffee Lake, all 5W chips are Cannonlake.
[doublepost=1504454364][/doublepost]

They might be working on making the entire keyboard a touchbar. They are on the right track with force touch, it feels exactly the same as a click. The next logical step is make all the keyboard buttons like that.

That won't happen for a while, the next step is making all keys dynamic.
[doublepost=1504454600][/doublepost]

In 2 years, they very possibly will have 512GB SSD as the baseline for the 15" model, although I seriously doubt there will be a big advantage processor wise over the 2018 model. I have the feeling that we should get used to the massive cost for the MBP now. The TB has raised the cost level up £300 and it's likely to stay that way for a while.

The Touch Bar is not the sole cause for the price increase, just because a device has a new significant feature or component, it doesn't mean that is the reason why the price increases. And it is not likely that it'll stay that way for a while.

 

[Populus]

No... where the hell has all this confusion come from? It's not just you, it's a lot of people. Of course they won't be Cannonlake, they were never going to be and there was no indication that they would be in the past 12 months since these chips were first leaked. 8th gen chips: All 15W chips are Kaby lake R, all 28W chips are Kaby Lake R, all 45W chips are Coffee Lake, all 5W chips are Cannonlake.

Thank you very much @Appleaker

So basically this coming year, odds are, we won't have any non-Touchbar Macbook Pro refresh, right? Because if there are not 15W Kaby Lake Refresh with the integrated GT3e graphics -the most powerful integrated graphics-, Apple won't bother in upgrading it's machines with worse graphics (i.e. GT2).

If things are this way, we probably won't see 10nm mainstream CPUs until 2019, and maybe the best option is to purchase a Kaby Lake MacBook Pro right now, because I cannot wait until 2019 honestly.

I don't know what is Intel doing with the 10nm process -if I would be an invester I would be worried-, but they are 4 years trying to shrink the size of the transistors... And AMD is starting to outsell them.

 

[Falhófnir]

Thank you very much @Appleaker

So basically this coming year, odds are, we won't have any non-Touchbar Macbook Pro refresh, right? Because if there are not 15W Kaby Lake Refresh with the integrated GT3e graphics -the most powerful integrated graphics-, Apple won't bother in upgrading it's machines with worse graphics (i.e. GT2).

If things are this way, we probably won't see 10nm mainstream CPUs until 2019, and maybe the best option is to purchase a Kaby Lake MacBook Pro right now, because I cannot wait until 2019 honestly.

I don't know what is Intel doing with the 10nm process -if I would be an invester I would be worried-, but they are 4 years trying to shrink the size of the transistors... And AMD is starting to outsell them.

The thing is though, as the 14nm process has matured they can start getting better binning across the line, this means more consistent performance towards the 'theoretical best' a chip can achieve. It also means better yields = ready in Apple level volumes early on. If they tried stretching themselves to producing (from what I hear very troublesome) 10nm chips across the line before they're ready then they will likely end up with an ungodly mess of chips which don't end up being produced in volumes that re-coup their development costs, wildly varying performance at the top end, potentially missing customer's orders etc etc, really not a good situation for a manufacturer known for their quality.

Another point is that, in transistor density, intels 14nm chips are actually comparable to TSMCs 10nm, feature size isn't the be all and end all of performance, everyone thought Kaby Lake would be a non-improvement over cannonlake, but it turned out to be a big improvement by removing thermal bottlenecks and allowing the chips to run at a higher clock speed for longer without any throttling. And don't forget we're now running up against the limits of what's possible, while intel have said they think they should be able to go down to 7nm, that's still yet to be confirmed, so as of now, 10nm is the smallest confirmed feature size reachable - not having a definite next step has never been the case before now!

Why intel have confused the picture with KBL refresh rather than just going Coffee Lake on all but the 5W Cannonlake chips, I can't imagine, but if you can be patient for the 10nm chips, then there will likely be a decent improvement yielded, and if not, there's really no reason not to see what the rumours are saying and get a new one when you need it.

The bigger factor really is what Apple themselves do with the line. They might not update the chips but still tweak pricing, storage tiers, graphics, etc to still make looking at a new machine worth it.

 

[The Mercurian]

Bottom line though - who cares what the critical dimension is. They are saying the Kaby Lake R will be 40% faster than Kaby Lake. As a user I don't care if its on 10nm or 14nm chips. They also said it was a once in a decade jump. I'm taking that to mean don't expect 40% boost with Cannon Lake IceLake etc. Of course that could just be a marketing angle

 

[cool11]

So when it is going to happen this 'big' step of 'once in decade' in intel mobile processors?
I mean a drastic performance improvements, possibly regardless of the mix of technologies that may be internally used.
Which cpu version and which year, including apple's cpu embodiment of course.

 

[The Mercurian]

So when it is going to happen this 'big' step of 'once in decade' in intel mobile processors?
I mean a drastic performance improvements, possibly regardless of the mix of technologies that may be internally used.
Which cpu version and which year, including apple's cpu embodiment of course.

Its already happening. The chips they just announed are 40% faster on thyeir predecessors

 

[0388631]

If the specs are good and the price is decent, how much could I get for my new 2016 MBP I bought?

i7 2.7 Ghz
512 GB SSD

15" Touch... I don't think I've used the touch buttons more than a few times. It's a docked MBP, so it's clean.

 

[argentum47]

That 40% sounds like typical marketing talk.
Unless they're talking specifically about IPC, I'd take that with a bucket full of salt.