Waiting for the 2018 MBP

[Zdigital2015]

While I agree with you in some points, let's not act like the desire or obsession (if that's what you'd like to call it) to make products thinner wasn't already there in Steve Jobs times.

In fact, Steve was one of the people who most rigorously pushed to make products thinner without compromise. If you look at the various product lines, the desire to get thinner has actually dropped off a bit after Steve's passing, for example the iPhones haven't really become noticeably thinner in a couple of years, and have even become thicker in some generations (iPhone 6S, namely). Similarly, the largest drop-off in terms of weight and thickness of the MB/MBP line happened in Jobs times or were still heavily influenced by him (namely, the 2012 Retina MBP, and of course much earlier the release of the MBP which in its first few generations was a great example of shoving off too much weight/thickness too early/fast).

That's not to say that the 2016 MBPs might not have been too much of a compromise in some regards, but let's not act like Apple's desire to make products thinner is a new idea; it's deeply rooted in Apple's philosophy.

Bravo, agree 1000%!

In 2008, two years into the Apple/Intel partnership, Apple had completed its transition to Intel and had just released the last version of MacOS X that would support both PowerPC & Intel - Leopard (v10.5). The first MacBook Air, as impractical as it turned out to be (1 USB 2.0 port, 1 Mini-DVI, one sound jack, 1.8" HDD) from the typical end-user's point of view, was Steve Jobs' statement to the critics, the pundits, the PC OEMs who kept belching out junk (Dell, specifically), that Apple could take the exact same chips the OEMs were using to make mediocre product and stand the whole industry on its head. Sure, the very first MBA had a custom CPU, but instead of Intel shipping out CPUs and the OEMs reacting, Apple asked Intel for something different and got it. Thin and light like the MBA just didn't exist at that point in 2008. There are many reasons this became Apple's mantra moving forward.

1. Raw material cost savings - Aluminum isn't cheap and costs go up every year. Tim got to be CEO because he lowered those costs, streamlined production and improved logistics.
2. Thinner and lighter products cost less to package and ship from China, or anywhere for that matter.
3. Apple never met a gross margin it ever wanted to lower willingly. Business 101, pure and simple.
4. Thin and light looks cool and gets people interested in your products. Who here is going to get excited about a new MacBook Pro that is as thick as the Late 2008 MacBook Pro 15"? It's not zero, more like 2%, while the other 98% say, "Pass!".
5. They sell/sold like hotcakes! I never owned a MacBook Air, but we have all reaped the benefits of Apple finding innovative ways to make their devices smaller, thinner and lighter.

Thin and light has been good for Apple and good for us as consumers...with a few exceptions. But even that is up for debate as we are Page 283 in this thread.

 

[mr.anthonyramos]

So we have the infamous analyst make a statement, BUT there was no exact clarity regarding when these might be released exactly. One could happen earlier than the other, one could happen via press release and others announced during an event. I am still thinking there is a chance over the next few weeks for a silent refresh. Then focus on major changes with the mac mini and iMac in October. Personally, I think this is a bad business plan for apple to release an 8th gen chip MacBook pro just about when the 9th gen might be announced.

 

[wallysb01]

But you do know that just because Cannon Lake will be available it means nothing regarding Apple actually using the chips, right?

Right, sometimes Apple moves quickly after Intel releases something, sometimes they don't. But I'm not 100% wedded to Apple anymore either. I suspect Cannonlake will be the last straw for me if they can't produce the laptop I need in a timely fashion after Intel's release and wide availability of Windows laptops with Cannonlake. This 2014 MBP has been great, but its 16GB of RAM is starting to be very limiting. Removing that constraint will greatly improve my life and I can only wait so long for Apple. I already moved on to non-Apple workstations with the Mac Pro debacle in 2012. I can do it again with laptops.

 

[CodeJoy]

But I think it's always good to be aware where the (current) limit is. MBA also was about compromises, but it was not designed badly. It was not as powerfull, had less ports, but they worked. They removed the DVD drive, but there were already USB flash disks, which were more convient in every single way.

I'm not talking about weight, I'm talking about thickness. The lighter the device is, the better, the thinner the bezels are, the better. But do you really think that it really matters having 0.5cm thinner device that is still quite big in other dimensions? We already reached the perfect thickness for PRO device, that didn't compromised other features (ports, keyboard, overall feel): it was the 2012-2015 MBP. If you need thinner (more portable) device, purchase MB.

I have to admit, I quite like devices to become smaller, thinner and lighter. The smaller laptops have always appealed to me, even though I did have bigger Thinkpads for a few years in the past. My first Mac was a MBA 2012, and the small size and weight of the device has absolutely been one of the main features of it. I also own an iPad Mini, and as small and light as it is, I would absolutely take half the thickness and half the weight any day. So for me, the form factor of current MBPs is very appealing, and definitely one of the selling points for it. And they're achieving it without really sacrificing CPU speed, which is pretty cool. There are other sacrifices that may or may not appeal to people, but there you go.
[doublepost=1531343427][/doublepost]

Meltdown effected several generations and I'd expect as many processors specific bugs to be fixed as created. Overall, I don't see taking a dip into new processor generations as a liability. The real liability is in what get wrapped around the processor and Apple waiting to wrap something around a processor that's been out for nearly a whole cycle from Intel doesn't really help you figure out if Apple has done something stupid or not. If anything, it actually makes that problem worse, because now we wait 6-9months after a platform is released from Intel for Apple to use it, then we have to wait another maybe 2-3 months to see if Apple's product is faulty in some obvious way. By that time, Windows laptops might be using the next generation processor already....

Look at what's shaping up now. Cannonlake is way delayed, but lets be optimistic and pretend it starts hitting shelves in late Q1 2019 after a MacBook Pro is finally available in late Q3 2018. That means, I finally pull the trigger in late Q4 2018. I'll have had my new MacBook Pro maybe a whole 3 months before Cannonlake and the famed LPDDR4 appear on Windows and maybe by late Q2 2019 Apple even does a refresh of its own, a la the late 2016 to mid 2017 MBPs. Is 6 months on my new machine instead of the old machine worth not having Cannonlake for maybe 4 - 5 years? Probably not (maybe another core count bump, while process shrink plus LPDDR4 bring better battery life and performance), unless this old machine goes seriously belly up.

Every month that Apple delays at this point really drastically changes this equation. Doing it now, when Cannon Lake is at least 6 months away, maybe more like a year, would make me a lot more comfortable buying now. Doing it in September might be kind of the 50/50 zone, where it might depend on just how much Apple does to improve the machine beyond a processor update. But if that time scale shift to a point where Cannon Lake might hit in just a month or two..... eh, I'll wait.

From what I hear from media outlets, Cannonlake is not expected until Q4 2019 and it will possibly be into 2020. Adding to that, Cannonlake isn't what you should be waiting for as it doesn't include processors suitable for MBP. Instead, people believe that Ice Lake (2nd gen 10nm) is what's going to produce processors suitable for MBP. It may well be into 2020 before there are 10nm processors in MBP class laptops. I don't think this should really influence purchase decisions in 2018 too much.

However, given the delays, it's certainly possible that road maps could change. Intel could very well introduce something in between, that adds LPDDR4 and meltdown fixes to current node architectures. I don't think I've heard any such rumours, but who knows? But really, it's like always with computers, you have to buy what's available now (or when you buy) and can't really worry too much about what's going to exist 6 months out or 12 months out. 10nm is not really going to be a disruptive technology shift anyway, so it shouldn't be such a big deal.
[doublepost=1531343657][/doublepost]

Removing that constraint will greatly improve my life and I can only wait so long for Apple. I already moved on to non-Apple workstations with the Mac Pro debacle in 2012. I can do it again with laptops.

If moving to non-Apple laptops would greatly improve your life, then you should probably do so. No point in self torture just to get the Apple brand.

 

[The Mercurian]

Hopefully by 2020 AMD will be a real competitor for mobile as they are now for desktop.

So we have the infamous analyst make a statement, BUT there was no exact clarity regarding when these might be released exactly. One could happen earlier than the other, one could happen via press release and others announced during an event. I am still thinking there is a chance over the next few weeks for a silent refresh. Then focus on major changes with the mac mini and iMac in October. Personally, I think this is a bad business plan for apple to release an 8th gen chip MacBook pro just about when the 9th gen might be announced.

I place little to no stock in this guys predictions honestly. Didn't he say to expect an update at WWDC ?

I will be surprised if we don't see a spec bump by end of July. If we have to wait until Sept/October I' be seriously disappointed with only a spec bump - I'd expect a significant redesign by then.

 

[Momo13Drums]

I have to admit, I quite like devices to become smaller, thinner and lighter. The smaller laptops have always appealed to me, ......

I have to admit I'm the same way. I LOVE how thin and light the 2017 models are. For my personal needs there are basically no sacrifices besides dongles. I don't relish the idea of hauling a bunch of dongles around - but it's also something I'm willing to do to use the programs I'd like to use which are only available with Apple. For anyone who travels frequently by airplane/car/boat/train especially if you carry other stuff, thinner + lighter laptop is king.

 

[erigas]

No vega GPU=no buy.
Having said that, I really do not think that they are that stupid to stick the same GPU for a THIRD consecutive year!

 

[benface]

Didn't he say to expect an update at WWDC ?

No, he didn't.

 

[wallysb01]

From what I hear from media outlets, Cannonlake is not expected until Q4 2019 and it will possibly be into 2020. Adding to that, Cannonlake isn't what you should be waiting for as it doesn't include processors suitable for MBP. Instead, people believe that Ice Lake (2nd gen 10nm) is what's going to produce processors suitable for MBP. It may well be into 2020 before there are 10nm processors in MBP class laptops. I don't think this should really influence purchase decisions in 2018 too much.

I suspect the lack of clear terminology from Intel is getting me here. Earlier this spring, Intel did claimed they are focusing on 2019 being the year of 10nm volume production. Whether that's Cannonlake or Ice Lake is rather immaterial. The point is 2019 is the current roadmap for 10nm and LPDDR4 to arrive. Sure, it could be late 2019, who am I to guess. But the other point is that every day Apple doesn't release an 8th gen MacBook Pro, is another day for rumors of the eventual 10nm product to seep out. And the more concrete those rumors get, the less likely I am to buy an upgraded machine.

However, given the delays, it's certainly possible that road maps could change. Intel could very well introduce something in between, that adds LPDDR4 and meltdown fixes to current node architectures. I don't think I've heard any such rumours, but who knows? But really, it's like always with computers, you have to buy what's available now (or when you buy) and can't really worry too much about what's going to exist 6 months out or 12 months out. 10nm is not really going to be a disruptive technology shift anyway, so it shouldn't be such a big deal.

If its really 2020 for mainstream laptop 10nm chips, I think we'd see some half-baked release, yes.

If moving to non-Apple laptops would greatly improve your life, then you should probably do so. No point in self torture just to get the Apple brand.

That's not really all that goes into this though. Current >16GB laptops are DDR4 only, not LP (which isn't exactly a deal breaker, but its one more downside). It also comes with the OS switch downside, which isn't insurmountable, but it needs to come with sufficient benefits. So, yeah >16GB of RAM would improve my life, but that's not the only factor in this equation. But when you start adding up >16GB, LPDDR4, maybe even 8 cores, the macOS advantage starts to shrink to insignificance.

 

[Rockadile]

I have to admit I'm the same way. I LOVE how thin and light the 2017 models are. For my personal needs there are basically no sacrifices besides dongles. I don't relish the idea of hauling a bunch of dongles around - but it's also something I'm willing to do to use the programs I'd like to use which are only available with Apple. For anyone who travels frequently by airplane/car/boat/train especially if you carry other stuff, thinner + lighter laptop is king.

What is the point of thinner & lighter laptop when it's negated by carrying dongles?
I'd imagine bringing dongles would take up more cubic volume than a 2015 sized MBP with all the ports.

 

[CodeJoy]

What is the point of thinner & lighter laptop when it's negated by carrying dongles?
I'd imagine bringing dongles would take up more cubic volume than a 2015 sized MBP with all the ports.

They should have kept the ports if it's just a matter of adding another 0.5mm, no question. Even just a user configurable choice between SDCARD or HDMI+USBA would have gone a long way if they're tight on space. That can't have been the whole reason though.

 

[OzyOly]

What is the point of thinner & lighter laptop when it's negated by carrying dongles?
I'd imagine bringing dongles would take up more cubic volume than a 2015 sized MBP with all the ports.

I think Apple are pushing towards a wireless world.
Wifi enabled SD cards, iCloud rather than flash drives, AirPrint, AirPlay etc.

 

[hajime]

I think Apple are pushing towards a wireless world.
Wifi enabled SD cards, iCloud rather than flash drives, AirPrint, AirPlay etc.

So when there is no internet access, all these things become useless.
[doublepost=1531366425][/doublepost]

What is the point of thinner & lighter laptop when it's negated by carrying dongles?
I'd imagine bringing dongles would take up more cubic volume than a 2015 sized MBP with all the ports.

Apple gains profits selling those dongles.

 

[OzyOly]

So when there is no internet access, all these things become useless.

Yes. But internet access has become ubiquitous as electricity in cities, a trend that will continue to the country side. Hell, I can get 4G internet in the Australian bush.

 

[mr.anthonyramos]

Hopefully by 2020 AMD will be a real competitor for mobile as they are now for desktop.



I place little to no stock in this guys predictions honestly. Didn't he say to expect an update at WWDC ?

I will be surprised if we don't see a spec bump by end of July. If we have to wait until Sept/October I' be seriously disappointed with only a spec bump - I'd expect a significant redesign by then.

I'm not sure if he quoted an update for WWDC but I too would be surprised if we don't get a bump by the end of this month. If they release it Sept/Oct and as I said, shortly after if they throw in the 8th gen chips and release it this late quickly followed by an announcement of the 9th gen chips would be a terrible idea for Apple. The sooner they release the better since it's chip updates.

Now if they update the design, sure, I can wait. but I'd rather they keep the design and update. All this fuss about the faulty keyboard is relative because I have 3 systems with the butterfly switch and NONE of them have issues. My entire office has around 60 MacBooks and MacBook pros with the butterfly switch and only one has been brought in for repair but not because of the keys but because one of my staff cracked the screen.

 

[Eason85]

Yes. But internet access has become ubiquitous as electricity in cities, a trend that will continue to the country side. Hell, I can get 4G internet in the Australian bush.

Don't take it for granted. We are headed for a world where the internet as we know it is not a given. This is already a reality for over a billion people.

 

[cool11]

Predictions...
https://appleinsider.com/articles/1...th-ipad-macbook-mac-mini-updates-says-analyst

 

[fastasleep]

What is the point of thinner & lighter laptop when it's negated by carrying dongles?
I'd imagine bringing dongles would take up more cubic volume than a 2015 sized MBP with all the ports.

This is such a ridiculous argument. How many dongles do you actually need in real life? You can get a single USB-C hub that has a few to several common ports in whatever combination you find most useful to your workflow. Maybe that's SD and HDMI for one person, maybe it's SD and mDP for another, or USB-A and Ethernet for someone else. ONE ****ing accessory to do something that would've taken up to half a dozen disparate ports in the past. Keep it in a little cheapo utility case with your power supply and you'll never forget it, and never notice that it weighs a whole couple ounces in your bag full of other stuff.

The outrage over carrying "piles of dongles" is excessively silly. Most everyone who actually needs to get work done will just swap out the cables or attach the adapter they need to existing cables at home/work or invest in a ThunderBolt dock that connects absolutely everything they need to a single cable including power to their MBP, and get back to getting their work done.

 

[Eason85]

Ming-Chi Kuo was wrong as **** about all of 2018;.

 

[WristyManchego]

This is such a ridiculous argument. How many dongles do you actually need in real life? You can get a single USB-C hub that has a few to several common ports in whatever combination you find most useful to your workflow. Maybe that's SD and HDMI for one person, maybe it's SD and mDP for another, or USB-A and Ethernet for someone else. ONE ****ing accessory to do something that would've taken up to half a dozen disparate ports in the past. Keep it in a little cheapo utility case with your power supply and you'll never forget it, and never notice that it weighs a whole couple ounces in your bag full of other stuff.

The outrage over carrying "piles of dongles" is excessively silly. Most everyone who actually needs to get work done will just swap out the cables or attach the adapter they need to existing cables at home/work or invest in a ThunderBolt dock that connects absolutely everything they need to a single cable including power to their MBP, and get back to getting their work done.

On board. I've had loads of people complain first hand about the issue, not one of them carries more than one dongle.

 

[fastasleep]

If they release it Sept/Oct and as I said, shortly after if they throw in the 8th gen chips and release it this late quickly followed by an announcement of the 9th gen chips would be a terrible idea for Apple. The sooner they release the better since it's chip updates.

Announcing or "launching" in Intel-speak means almost nothing with regard to shipping dates. Additionally, 8th gen chips aren't even finished rolling out. Just because some 8th gen chips came out last fall doesn't mean they all did. The hexacores that we may see in the MBP allegedly started shipping a couple months ago, but they seem to be fairly scarce. 8th gen Xeons come out I don't know when, but traditionally like a year after a gen starts rolling out. Announcing a generation of Intel chips means jack ****.
[doublepost=1531376584][/doublepost]

Ming-Chi Kuo was wrong as **** about all of 2018;.

You know 2018 is only half over at this point, right?

 

[OzyOly]

Don't take it for granted. We are headed for a world where the internet as we know it is not a given. This is already a reality for over a billion people.

A billion people don’t have a MacBook Pro either. If a person can afford an Apple computer it’s reasonable to assume they can afford mobile internet access. If not, then perhaps they have more pressing issues.

 

[Ma2k5]

Don't take it for granted. We are headed for a world where the internet as we know it is not a given. This is already a reality for over a billion people.

What do you mean we are headed for a world where the internet is not a given?

 

[navaira]

What do you mean we are headed for a world where the internet is not a given?

Net neutrality or the lack thereof, I guess.

"Your iCloud backup will take 47 hours and 49 minutes. Why not buy Extended Full Internet Package for $99 a month?"

 

[Ma2k5]

Net neutrality or the lack thereof, I guess.

"Your iCloud backup will take 47 hours and 49 minutes. Why not buy Extended Full Internet Package for $99 a month?"

The whole Net Neutrality thing has been overblown - if someone ever made it take 47 hours to backup your iCloud, a competitor will just take over their business.

What you refer to as the lack of "net neutrality" exists in pretty much the majority of industry and service - yet we don't see the end of the world coming for all those other products and services.

Apple are the only ones who can licence macOS, do we suddenly see £30,000 laptops by them to take advantage of this? I mean they legally can do that tomorrow if they want. Microsoft could suddenly make it so if you want Microsoft Words on macOS, it costs you £1000 a month. Why don't they also take these ridiculous routes?

Anyone who decides to enforce ridiculous service, will eventually be ousted by a competitor.