Waiting for the 2018 MBP

[PeterJP]

Uhm, no thanks? I'd rather keep the 13" in the lineup. I get the Airs, but why the 13"?
The 12" is fan-less and it seems there are possibilities for a quad-core in an upcoming 13".

EDIT: Or did you mean you're hoping for a 12" in MBP shape with a more powerful CPU (e.g. quad-core) and more ports? If so, I'm in.

Well, in my original plan, I'd be killing off the 13" MBP. If the new "real pro" line-up would be available in 13-15-17 inch formats starting with modest specs, that would replace the 13" MBP. With the Xeon and other fanciness as options.

Just thinking of a way to simplify the line-up. I know the Jobs days are long gone, but we currently have 7 (!) base models: MB-2xMBA-2xMBP13-2xMBP15. That's just horrible. I think it would be easier for Apple to set up the logistics to ship upgrade SSDs and memory to the stores than to manage all of those SKUs.

 

[Ener Ji]

Damn. Fo realz?
Now you scare me man... especially because there is NO MBP out there right now that's worth buying. As I'm not gonna move from a 16GB Quad Core machine... to another 16GB Quad Core...

I ran AHT now myself... came away with no issues found.

Same here. I ran extended hardware tests four times without issues. I also ran a disk utility first aid from macOS recovery which cleaned up some minor issues. Also, I forgot to mention that I read that a problem with the ICC profile that f.lux installs could also cause this issue. So I uninstalled f.lux recently to see if that helps.

It may be coincidental as I haven't been heavily using my MBP the last couple of days, but so far I haven't had WindowServer crash again.

If it does keep happening frequently enough that I can't live with it, my next step will probably be to upgrade to High Sierra (once 10.13.2 is released). Then if that doesn't fix it, my next step is probably a format and a fresh install...

What I'd like to see is the following. But I admit it's rather unlikely.

<snip>
- Apple launches a new MacBook Pro line as part of their new Pro commitment. 32gb RAM, vega, xeon, whatever the spec may be. A 4k screen in 15" and 15" would be welcome, possibly with a standard HiDPI mode that is not exactly 2x. More ports, blade ssd, expandable memory, as in: pro!

What do you think?

I love the idea of a "more Pro" laptop with more ports, more battery, more RAM, a higher resolution screen, and better graphics. I think it's rather unlikely that we'll get all that plus a change to the physical format, but who knows?

 

[Queen6]

What I'd like to see is the following. But I admit it's rather unlikely.

- Macbook Pro 15 gets one of those Intel-AMD chips. Touchbar and formfactor stay more or less the same, but the model is rebranded as 'MacBook 15' with small cosmetic changes. The 12" MacBook gets a touchbar and slight updates to the look so that the two new MacBook models look similar.
- MacBook Pro 13" and the Airs get cancelled.
- Apple launches a new MacBook Pro line as part of their new Pro commitment. 32gb RAM, vega, xeon, whatever the spec may be. A 4k screen in 15" and 15" would be welcome, possibly with a standard HiDPI mode that is not exactly 2x. More ports, blade ssd, expandable memory, as in: pro!

What do you think?

Highly unlikely; vast majority of business's don't trust or take Apple seriously as a provider in this sector, and Apple's own greed precludes the vast majority private users. So we are now stuck with the current dismal mac line up, from a company that has effectively become a "one horse show"...

Q-6

 

[Falhófnir]

What I'd like to see is the following. But I admit it's rather unlikely.

- Macbook Pro 15 gets one of those Intel-AMD chips. Touchbar and formfactor stay more or less the same, but the model is rebranded as 'MacBook 15' with small cosmetic changes. The 12" MacBook gets a touchbar and slight updates to the look so that the two new MacBook models look similar.
- MacBook Pro 13" and the Airs get cancelled.
- Apple launches a new MacBook Pro line as part of their new Pro commitment. 32gb RAM, vega, xeon, whatever the spec may be. A 4k screen in 15" and 15" would be welcome, possibly with a standard HiDPI mode that is not exactly 2x. More ports, blade ssd, expandable memory, as in: pro!

What do you think?

I do like the idea of a larger screened option without the expense of the high powered internals, there are those of us who make good use of screen space while moving about but don’t necessarily need masses of power. I’d guess if anything they might use the previous (retina gen) shell as a sort of ‘SE’ MacBook line with newer but lower powered internals - maybe the same as is found in the 13” pro.

 

[turbineseaplane]

It really shows me where I'm at with Apple that my preferred phone is the iPhone SE and the notebook I really want would be called "MacBook (Pro) SE".

I'm not even very old, but they've seemingly decided to leave a ton of us behind with the direction they've chosen.

I can't even believe I'm thinking this… But I do wonder if five years from now if I'm using a Windows machine again. Unless iOS changes dramatically there is simply no way that's ever going to be a substitute for my workflows. I really don't think they care about macOS in the long term if they can move some of their key developer stuff onto iOS - i.e. Everybody's making iOS apps on iOS itself

 

[Poki]

To offer an alternate perspective, I have to say I'm quite happy with the direction Apple takes the MacBook Pro in general. I'm a full time graphic designer (using mostly Adobe CC software) and I spend most of my free time on my computer editing photos (using Capture One Pro, mainly).

For the vast majority of my workflow, 16 GB RAM is absolutely fine. And although the dual-core CPUs in the current 13" MBP are a little slow for my needs, the current 15" quad-cores are fine, just as the next quad-core 13" will be. Graphics? Yeah, I'd like some more, but to be totally honest, GPU acceleration in all the apps I use is not that great. The exception would be Cinema 4D, but I do the actual rendering on an external render farm anyway.

Having a thinner, lighter device with adequate performance and four of the fastest ports available is exactly what I want. Carrying my camera equipment together with a notebook in a shoulder bag can become quite uncomfortable if the weight is too much. And the camera + lenses + bag already weigh like 3kg, I don't want to go much higher than this tbh. In most cases, bringing just a single adapter is sufficient (SD card reader for shootings, HDMI adapter for presentations, pretty much anything else can be done wirelessly). So, TB3 basically gives me the choice which port I want to bring.

Maybe my use case is just not "pro" enough, but all of my colleagues, most of them using 2016 15" MBPs, are completely happy with them. So, if graphic design isn't the kind of "pro" work the MacBook Pros are intended for, what is? I'm a little confused by all the "The MBP is not 'pro' anymore" posts.

 

[turbineseaplane]

@Poki

I guess I would argue that you've sort of talked yourself into being happy with what they offered.

Think of it this way.
What if they could have offered essentially the same physical package but also with a USB-A/SD/HDMI on one side?

Wouldn't that be additive to your joy with the machine?
Would it not make it even better essentially?


(please nobody argue "but then it couldn't be so thin!" - Apple does amazing things and it's hard to know what they could do or not if they decided the features were important from the beginning of the design process)


I notice you didn't mention the keyboard.
That is objectively a disaster simply based upon the increased flakiness/reliability issues. Whether one likes the typing on it or not is a separate issue. They HAVE to fix the reliability problems that have cropped up.

 

[Poki]

@turbineseaplane If they could include these ports without adding weight, yeah, sure, that would be a bonus. But if the choice is between a heavier machine with the ports or a lighter one without them, I think the latter isn't the worst compromise.

As for the keyboard - I love typing on that thing! I'm even faster than on Apple's previous (already great) keyboards. Reliability is an issue, of course. I have yet to hear of any issues from anyone I actually know, but reading this forum the past 12 months sure makes it seem like it's a serious problem. The actual failure rate would be very interesting to know.

 

[turbineseaplane]

If they could include these ports without adding weight,

Yeah, it's basically impossible to know the calculus on this as they, on the 15", made it physically only slightly smaller and a bit lighter, but what really impacted the weight is they cut the battery size down dramatically (99.5 down to 76 watt-hour).

I'm pretty sure ports are almost non-existent in the weight calculation. It was more their desire to trim its size slightly, and then they were required to cut the battery as well, and there goes the weight.

I don't really know why anyone (not saying you) touts Apple's prowess for making them slimmer and lighter and sexier. Well, duh, they cut out built-in ports and a LOT of battery and no wonder it's smaller and lighter. That's like "I take off clothes" and suddenly my dimensions are smaller any my weight is less. But now when it's cold I need to go find a sweater and put it on (that'd be the dongle in this analogy - haha)

I just wish we had a "MacBook Pro: SE/Ports" edition.
The 2015 models were certainly not "fat pigs" or anything and some users likely would have preferred to not lose built in features.

Oh well - Here we are...

 

[TheralSadurns]

Srsly. By the time Apple releases an updated pro... that has more to offer than my 2011 machine (aka quad → hexa core, 16GB → 32GB), the industry will have moved to offer 64GB in most pro machines. Like the Dell Precision we currently have at work... which has 64GB already. And while big... it's not a complete behemoth.

 

[Poki]

Srsly. By the time Apple releases an updated pro... that has more to offer than my 2011 machine (aka quad → hexa core, 16GB → 32GB), the industry will have moved to offer 64GB in most pro machines. Like the Dell Precision we currently have at work... which has 64GB already. And while big... it's not a complete behemoth.

To be fair, much of this is Intel's fault. The still don't offer 6-core mobile chips (but probably will in time for the next MBP update), and even the 8th generation of their CPUs doesn't support LPDDR4, making it harder for OEMs to provide more than 16 GB RAM. Heck, they just cancelled the whole Knights Hill generation of Xeon chips due to the still too low yields of their 10 nm process.

I still stand by my point that for 99% of potential users, 16 GB RAM is fine for the years to come. It won't be sufficient for everyone, and obviously not forever, but for a notebook I buy today or even next year, I don't see a problem with that.

 

[zaphodb3]

Srsly. By the time Apple releases an updated pro... that has more to offer than my 2011 machine (aka quad → hexa core, 16GB → 32GB), the industry will have moved to offer 64GB in most pro machines. Like the Dell Precision we currently have at work... which has 64GB already. And while big... it's not a complete behemoth.

I imagine your work Precisions are a stand in for a workstation and you don't really move it around outside of work? From my perspective as a scientist who runs simulations, the point of having a mobile workstation is portability, so that I can do work in a coffee shop, an airplane, etc. Heavy jobs are either sent remotely to a server or require big monitors anyway, which means I work at a desktop. And a desktop can be built much more cheaply than a laptop of comparable power.

I think many professionals, if they have a choice, prefer a very portable, moderately powerful laptop, to a 7lb laptop that runs out of charge in a few hours with a heavy workload.

 

[vxh.viet]

That's like "I take of clothes" and suddenly my dimensions are smaller any my weight is less. But now when it's cold I need to go find a sweater and put it on (that'd be the dongle in this analogy - haha)

Your analogy makes me giggle a little bit. No doubt people would prefer looking at a "figure" with less clothes on, providing they're equally beautiful. There goes your analogy .

But then again, beautiful thing are often just for look.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Your analogy makes me giggle a little bit. No doubt people would prefer looking at a "figure" with less clothes on, providing they're equally beautiful. There goes your analogy .

But then again, beautiful thing are often just for look.

Yeah, but who cares what people want to look at!
I'm freezing my ass off without my dongle!

 

[Poki]

I think many professionals, if they have a choice, prefer a very portable, moderately powerful laptop, to a 7lb laptop that runs out of charge in a few hours with a heavy workload.

I'm certainly in that group. Again, I'd love to see numbers on that too, but I'd bet Apple did some market research prior to designing the current MBPs.

 

[ExcelTronic]

My dream laptop from Apple is one with:
• A Backlit Apple Logo (Helps when I dock the Mac with the lid closed)
• SD Card Slot
• MagSafe USB-C with LED Charging Indicator
• Vega GPU on the 15"
• Non-Soldered SSD
• Non-Soldered Battery


My poor MacBook Pro 2010 17" is now starting to show its age. Compiling programs and apps in C++ and C# take a while, and Web Development in JavaScript is slow. 1080p video editing is also painful to do. I think I can hold out until their next redesign, but if it fails I might have to look into GNOME w/ KDE. or a hackintosh laptop build.

 

[ugru]

To be fair, much of this is Intel's fault. They still don't offer 6-core mobile chips (but probably will in time for the next MBP update), and even the 8th generation of their CPUs doesn't support LPDDR4, making it harder for OEMs to provide more than 16 GB RAM.

Nearly every OEM offers laptops with more than 16 GB of RAM...they just do not use LP RAM.

Apple could have easily offered a laptop with 32 GB of DDR4 RAM but they made the dumb design choice to reduce 25% of battery capacity (compared to the 2015 rMBP) to make the laptop thinner....very smart.

 

[Sterkenburg]

My dream laptop from Apple is one with:
• A Backlit Apple Logo (Helps when I dock the Mac with the lid closed)
• SD Card Slot
• MagSafe USB-C with LED Charging Indicator
• Vega GPU on the 15"
• Non-Soldered SSD
• Non-Soldered Battery


My poor MacBook Pro 2010 17" is now starting to show its age. Compiling programs and apps in C++ and C# take a while, and Web Development in JavaScript is slow. 1080p video editing is also painful to do. I think I can hold out until their next redesign, but if it fails I might have to look into GNOME w/ KDE. or a hackintosh laptop build.

The next redesign won't be out for at least another 2-3 years so I wouldn't hold out for it with a 2010 laptop, but a 2018 refresh of the 15" with Vega graphics might be quite likely. As for non-soldered, replaceable parts, I miss them as well but realistically they are never going to come back again.

 

[PeterJP]

I think many professionals, if they have a choice, prefer a very portable, moderately powerful laptop, to a 7lb laptop that runs out of charge in a few hours with a heavy workload.

Exactly. I was just looking around for a replacement for my 13" MBPr Late 2013, actually. I want a bigger screen + nice to have: more memory/power (for virtual machines & to develop and test video processing). Most 17" laptops are huge. Even the moderately sized Razer Blade Pro is 2x the weight and and 2x the footprint of my MBP13 (whereas 17" is is only 30% more than 13"). An HP ZBook is actually 2x the thickness as well. Can't lug that around.

I was also looking at non-Mac 15" laptops like the Dell XPS15. These are more powerful than the comparable MBP15 models and cheaper. But I'm a bit worried about the software side. I've got plenty of Linux experience, but it's not an option for the desktop (I work with Office and Lightroom). macOS nicely integrates a Un*x command line and development environment into a good desktop. I have been playing around with WSL on Windows10 and it's promising. But I'd have to test it out for a while before committing.

 

[Poki]

Nearly every OEM offer laptops with more than 16 GB of RAM...they just do not use LP RAM.

Apple could have easily offered a laptop with 32 GB of DDR4 RAM but they made the dumb design choice to reduce 25% of battery capacity (compared to the 2015 rMBP) to make the laptop thinner....very smart.

But that's the thing - designing a notebook is all about compromises. You want more power? You need more battery to keep it running, you need more cooling, i.e. the machine gets much thicker and heavier. It's the same with DDR4 vs. LPDDR3 - creating a thicker, heavier machine just for the few users which would actually benefit from 32GB RAM? I'd bet the number of users who actually need more than 16GB RAM in a notebook is abysmal.

So yes, I think Apple nailed the compromise for the vast majority of users. Would I like to have more battery and more power? Sure, but not at the cost of more weight. My shoulder will thank me later.

 

[ugru]

But that's the thing - designing a notebook is all about compromises. You want more power? You need more battery to keep it running, you need more cooling, i.e. the machine gets much thicker and heavier. It's the same with DDR4 vs. LPDDR3 - creating a thicker, heavier machine just for the few users which would actually benefit from 32GB RAM? I'd bet the number of users who actually need more than 16GB RAM in a notebook is abysmal

2015 rMBP had 99.5 Wh battery and was neither thick nor heavy.

It had the ports, like HDMI and SD, that will not be replaced by USB-C for the next 10 years.

 

[Poki]

2015 rMBP had 99.5 Wh battery and was neither thick nor heavy.

It had the ports, like HDMI and SD, that will not be replaced by USB-C for the next 10 years.

They still managed to shave off 10% of it's weight, without compromising battery life too dramatically. When carrying the notebook around in a messenger bag, even 200 grams are definitely noticeable. Most USB-C SD card readers are like 40 grams, so even if you bring two or three dongles with you, it's still lighter. The additional battery would have been welcome, for sure. But again, Apple thought this compromise is even better, and I can't blame them. I just fail to see the huge deal with bringing an adapter when you need one.

 

[Naimfan]

2015 rMBP had 99.5 Wh battery and was neither thick nor heavy.

It had the ports, like HDMI and SD, that will not be replaced by USB-C for the next 10 years.

Exactly.

The 2016 design is a bridge too far, sacrificing far too much when, in reality, NOTHING needed to be sacrificed. Hence, it's a failure as a design.

 

[Dave245]

The 2016 design is a bridge too far, sacrificing far too much when, in reality, NOTHING needed to be sacrificed. Hence, it's a failure as a design.

I have to say I dissagree, it’s not a failure at all, the MacBook Pro is lighter and thinner, which for most devices may not mean that much BUT for a laptop that people carry around it means a lot, go ask a university student or someone like myself who uses the train and so on.

The MacBook Pro 2016 design is more compact, thinner and lighter which will translate to less heavy to carry around and won’t take up as much room in a messenger bag, that equals a win in my book.

 

[ugru]

They still managed to shave off 10% of it's weight, without compromising battery life too dramatically. When carrying the notebook around in a messenger bag, even 200 grams are definitely noticeable.

The MacBook Pro 2016 design is more compact, thinner and lighter which will translate to less heavy to carry around and won’t take up as much room in a messenger bag, that equals a win in my book.

Again, Apple already has a super thin ultrabook if you want it thin and light it's the rMB. Makes no sense watsoever IMHO to make both lines of portables thin light and underpowered...