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When comparing the MacBook Pro to the XPS, we shouldn't discard all the advantages of the MBP. The most important for me is definitely the screen, which not only gets much brighter than any display option of the XPS, but it also has a much lower minimum brightness, which I absolutely love when working at night. The speakers, the trackpad, the WiFi speeds, the webcam, the SSD speed and last but not least the T2 chip (which makes the computer much more secure).
 
Yeah agreed, if/when I need to upgrade again, I’ll be buying a refurbished MacBook Pro from Apple, not new. Gives time for the issues to surface and I like have $200-400 USD taken off the price tag.

I still just can’t get over how the maxed out 15” now costs $6,700?! I mean seriously though, how can upgrading to 4tb SSD alone ($3,200 USD) cost more than an entire new 13” MacBook Pro??

I'm willing to bet anyone who drops $3K on just the SSD is not personally paying for it---their company is. Therefore, easy to charge those prices.

It's like the several thousand dollar court side seats at NBA games. You're neighbor Bob ain't paying for that seat---a business is (although businesses are no longer able to write off entertainment purchases...).
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Gotta love when Americans assume we all pay the same prices they do... :rolleyes:
. I'm in Europe. Prices have gone up considerable in recent years. I haven't bought one since 2014 because of that. Some calcualtions in another post earlier - the equivlent spec 15" 2018 model is 14% more expensive then the one i'm typing on from 2014. European prices are WAAAYYY out of whack - both compared to the price of macs previously and to the competition. A MBP with spec I want is 87% more expensive then an equivalent Dell.

But to be honest its more than that. The MBP with spec I want would be €4,000. Its just not worth that to me. While I would prefer a Mac, I'd feel alot safer carrying around a €2,200 Dell, than a €4,000 MBP. I travel alot, sometime to places I don't know. I would genuinely not be comfortable going some places with hardware that expensive on show.

And by the way - it seems Apple now agree that 16GB is not enough

Well I am decided. I am moving away from Mac. The pricing is insane and shows no sign of decreasing. I see no prospect of a non touch bar option in the future. Generally I don’t like the direction things are heading. I’m going to get a Dell xps 13 which is on special currently and dual boot it with windows and Ubuntu to see can I adapt to either environment. Illl keep my 2014 MBP as a main machine for now and also as I think it’s now the MBP at its peak (the 2015 is but it’s not worth changing a 2014 to a 2015). I’m disappointed not to be getting a hex core machine - but I’ll get over that when I see how much money I’ve got left over from not buying the Mac!

Powerbooks used to cost $3,000.00 for an entry level model back in like '03. And that's in early-aught dollars.

Apple computers have always been expensive but have gotten more affordable; not less, over the years.
 
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Does anyone conjecture that we will see updates to the 13" No-TB MBP by the end of the year? I had been praying for that model to get 8th gen CPUs.
 
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Does anyone conjecture that we will see updates to the 13" No-TB MBP by the end of the year? I had been praying for that model to get 8th gen CPUs.
No, I think Apple will eliminate the non-Touchbar 13” model in 2018, as they already did for the 15” this year.

Like @Glockworkorange said, Apple will likely upgrade the MacBook and MacBook Air lineup next to provide users a non-Touchbar experience if the users want that still
 
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I'm at the point now where I'm prepared to move my work stuff to windows, the only thing holding me back now is personal use stuff like Photos. I might stick out my 2014 MBP, but Dell have a 15% off sale for the next 5 days only so.....
I just saved 1000$ on a Lenovo. Around 1437$US+tx for a 32GB & 4k matte display (Lenovo t580) with ethernet jack+sdcard+num keypad

Amen!
 
No, I think Apple will eliminate the non-Touchbar 13” model in 2018, as they already did for the 15” this year.

Like @Glockworkorange said, Apple will likely upgrade the MacBook and MacBook Air lineup next to provide users a non-Touchbar experience if the users want that still

The one thing I'm struggling to comprehend is that if the Non-TB model is replaced by a budget MB model, isn't it going to be a painfully less powerful processor than even this current Non-TB model? All I wanted was a 13" with 8th gen and fixed keyboard.
 
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Wow great price :eek:

that's including extended warranty and a backpack! It's also a dual battery system (19h autonomy). You can hot swap the 2nd battery while the system is live.
● i5 8350
● 15.6" UHD (3480 x 2160) IPS anti-glare
● 32 GB (16 + 16) DDR4 2400MHz (with dimm sockets)
● NVIDIA GeForce MX150 2GB GDDR5
● IR & 720p HD Camera with microphone
● Backlit Keyboard - French
● Fingerprint Reader
● Hardware dTPM
● Hardware dTPM2.0 Enabled
● 256GB Solid State Drive, SATA3 OPAL2.0 - Capable
● Smart Card Reader
● 4 cell Li-Ion 32WH
● 6 cell Li-Ion 72Wh Cylindrical Rear
● 65W AC Adapter (2pin) - USB Type C

+ I have an empty 2242 m2 slot where I will install an additional 480GB! :rolleyes:

I used the canadian EPP (I'm also from Canada).
https://forums.redflagdeals.com/ibm-thinkpad-ideapad-epp-discounted-777107/
 
The one thing I'm struggling to comprehend is that if the Non-TB model is replaced by a budget MB model, isn't it going to be a painfully less powerful processor than even this current Non-TB model? All I wanted was a 13" with 8th gen and fixed keyboard.
Well we don’t know what they’ll replace the processors with on the next MacBook/Air lineup. It could well include significantly faster processors, but I doubt it will include any 4 core processors because those laptops simply do not have the room for cooling system that would be needed with a 4 core 8th gen Intel chip.

Also from the looks of it they’ve already fixed the keyboard with the new MBPs. Time will tell, but it would appear from other threads that that issue was addressed with the new membrane they’ve added beneath each key.
 
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Well we don’t know what they’ll replace the processors with on the next MacBook/Air lineup. It could well include significantly faster processors, but I doubt it will include any 4 core processors because those laptops simply do not have the room for cooling system that would be needed with a 4 core 8th gen Intel chip.

Also from the looks of it they’ve already fixed the keyboard with the new MBPs. Time will tell, but it would appear from other threads that that issue was addressed with the new membrane they’ve added beneath each key.

Well - are Intel making dual cores to suit those systems still?
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that's including extended warranty and a backpack! It's also a dual battery system (19h autonomy). You can hot swap the 2nd battery while the system is live.
● i5 8350
● 15.6" UHD (3480 x 2160) IPS anti-glare
● 32 GB (16 + 16) DDR4 2400MHz (with dimm sockets)
● NVIDIA GeForce MX150 2GB GDDR5
● IR & 720p HD Camera with microphone
● Backlit Keyboard - French
● Fingerprint Reader
● Hardware dTPM
● Hardware dTPM2.0 Enabled
● 256GB Solid State Drive, SATA3 OPAL2.0 - Capable
● Smart Card Reader
● 4 cell Li-Ion 32WH
● 6 cell Li-Ion 72Wh Cylindrical Rear
● 65W AC Adapter (2pin) - USB Type C

+ I have an empty 2242 m2 slot where I will install an additional 480GB! :rolleyes:

I used the canadian EPP (I'm also from Canada).
https://forums.redflagdeals.com/ibm-thinkpad-ideapad-epp-discounted-777107/

Ah well like not all of us can use an EPP :(
 
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When comparing the MacBook Pro to the XPS, we shouldn't discard all the advantages of the MBP. The most important for me is definitely the screen, which not only gets much brighter than any display option of the XPS, but it also has a much lower minimum brightness, which I absolutely love when working at night. The speakers, the trackpad, the WiFi speeds, the webcam, the SSD speed and last but not least the T2 chip (which makes the computer much more secure).


I think it actually makes more sense in the US pricing

https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-laptops/new-xps-15/spd/xps-15-9570-laptop

The MBP 15 2018 $2,399.00 Vs DELL XPS $1,899.99

For the $500, Apple offers:

Three more Thunderbolt 3 Port
3x3 1300Mbps 802.11ac compared to 2x2 866Mbps 802.11ac WiFi
Much Faster SSD, and likely better NAND.
Bluetooth 5.0
Better Trackpad
Touch Bar with Touch ID.

The Dell Offers

Slightly Faster CPU
Sightly Faster GPU
Better Keyboard.

I think the US pricing makes much more sense and value. Next time I should started with the US pricing for comparison rather then UK.

Now I am just hoping there will be a new Keyboard in 2019.
 
I'm at the point now where I'm prepared to move my work stuff to windows, the only thing holding me back now is personal use stuff like Photos. I might stick out my 2014 MBP, but Dell have a 15% off sale for the next 5 days only so.....

I think if I move to Android this would be a decent option.

MacOS does still appeal mainly due to the integration with iPhone. I do however have a lot of reservations of how iCloud functions outside macOS.

If I want to, for example, use the web client for iPhotos or iCloud emails etc, it is probably the worst experience ever. Unless you use native apps on the OS, it’s pretty shoddy. In contrast, Gmail/Outlook/Google Drive/One Drive etc work well with or without macOS.

Copying photos, videos or music etc from iCloud to a PC to backup or otherwise is not a fun experience, and the less said about iTunes the better.

So perhaps a Windows machine with Linux and an Android (which integrates very well with Windows) might be my choice. I will see this October what happens with my phone, as that might just decide my decision.

It’s a shame, I love the Apple Watch, but then hate how limiting HomePod, AppeTV or Siri is. I also dislike the quality of a lot of the wiring (chargers, earphones etc) that Apple provide at such a high premium, while my android chargers seem to go through world war and still function.

It’s the little annoyances of Apple which are pushing me over.
 
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I think if I move to Android this would be a decent option.

MacOS does still appeal mainly due to the integration with iPhone. I do however have a lot of reservations of how iCloud functions outside macOS.

If I want to, for example, use the web client for iPhotos or iCloud emails etc, it is probably the worst experience ever. Unless you use native apps on the OS, it’s pretty shoddy. In contrast, Gmail/Outlook/Google Drive/One Drive etc work well with or without macOS.

Copying photos, videos or music etc from iCloud to a PC to backup or otherwise is not a fun experience, and the less said about iTunes the better.

So perhaps a Windows machine with Linux and an Android (which integrates very well with Windows) might be my choice. I will see this October what happens with my phone, as that might just decide my decision.

It’s a shame, I love the Apple Watch, but then hate how limiting HomePod, AppeTV or Siri is. I also dislike the quality of a lot of the wiring (chargers, earphones etc) that Apple provide at such a high premium, while my android chargers seem to go through world war and still function.

It’s the little annoyances of Apple which are pushing me over.

I will be staying with Apple for my phones for forseeable future. In fact if my iphone7+ keeps going I'll keep using it, I'm very happy with it. I used to be on Android, however I would not go back. One thing I like about Apple is their stance on privacy while you can be sure Google are farming your info at every chance. Hence I wouldn't go android again. I would like to find a viable alternative to gmail to for that matter! Giving serious thought to linux on an XPS 13".
 
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I will be staying with Apple for my phones for forseeable future. In fact if my iphone7+ keeps going I'll keep using it, I'm very happy with it. I used to be on Android, however I would not go back. One thing I like about Apple is their stance on privacy while you can be sure Google are farming your info at every chance. Hence I wouldn't go android again. I would like to find a viable alternative to gmail to for that matter! Giving serious thought to linux on an XPS 13".

My main reason for the iPhone is the support/update that comes without carrier interference - which I can only achieve if I go Google products on Android - and still could be the reason I stay with Apple. I do however miss the battery life and flexibility of file transfers with Android.

Saying that, Windows updates being a pain does push me towards macOS.
 
I think it actually makes more sense in the US pricing

https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-laptops/new-xps-15/spd/xps-15-9570-laptop

The MBP 15 2018 $2,399.00 Vs DELL XPS $1,899.99

For the $500, Apple offers:

Three more Thunderbolt 3 Port
3x3 1300Mbps 802.11ac compared to 2x2 866Mbps 802.11ac WiFi
Much Faster SSD, and likely better NAND.
Bluetooth 5.0
Better Trackpad
Touch Bar with Touch ID.

The Dell Offers

Slightly Faster CPU
Sightly Faster GPU
Better Keyboard.

I think the US pricing makes much more sense and value. Next time I should started with the US pricing for comparison rather then UK.

Now I am just hoping there will be a new Keyboard in 2019.
Surely you should compare the pricing in whatever currency you will be paying?
 
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I’d care to argue that Apple designs a longer lasting machine. After 6 years can you say that that XPS will still be running as fast as that equilavently specced MBP? You pay the extra for longer longevity. You also don’t have to buy a yearly subscription for malware protection, and deal with buggy Windows and bloatware

That used to be the case back in the day, but Windows 10 is a very efficient OS. It should last much better than the repuation of-old, so far it has. Very old laptops can run Windows 10, older than 2011, can run Windows 10 today whereas 2011 laptops will be losing support for Mojave simply because they don't support the proprietary metal api. Macs ran windows 10 better than they did OS X back when Yosimete came out, because of how scalable it is. It really "fixed" many of the problems and poor reputation that befell Windows in the mid-late 2000s

Today's high end Windows laptops are not the same as high end windows laptops from 2011...they provide the same horsepower (the processors are identical) and similar competetive premium design's. Moreover, you can get an incredible laptop such as the Matebook Pro X for a price that is more akin to the MacBook Air with Broadwell chips and a TN display. That poster had a valid point regarding the extra $$$ and premium. The premium is harder to justify today than it was 6 years ago.

Most people can adapt to Windows and vice versa, but there is always a minority that prefers one to the other. They're both great, and if you are invested in the Apple ecosystem, then there's not much incentive to switch, but its not a wide gap as it once used to be. Apple has been playing catch up more so than they used to in recent times.

On windows you can also get access to much more software. Signature Edition lacks bloatware, and macOS arguably comes with its fair share of bloat now a days too. I can't argue with you on the virus and malware protection though, but you can get some free light programs that work well, and the Windows Security team is night/day difference to Balmer's Microsoft. His reign was probably the lowest point for Windows. Satya Nadella has completely rejuvenated the company imo.

My late 2013 performs well, has the same core retina display, has the same quantity ram and ssd as the low end tb models, and has a superior keyboard... but I also only do Office Suite work and web page related functions, and nothing related to professional video, sound, photo work beyond importing my own personal videos and photos.

The current MacBook Pro design is also suddenly, getting quickly outdated. A few years ago they were sleek, but the slim bezel trend has been pushed forward with high end windows pcs.

To the general price structure increase, I certainly empathize with those who are critical of the price increases.
My current late 2013, I purchased for 1250 CDN pre tax. Granted, the $ was on par back then but even taking into account the modern day different, it would be closer to 1500$...The current base price MBP of same configuration is 1980$ CDN pre tax (~2000$ for the non touch bar) or 2400$ CDN for the tb model

Thanks to Apple switching to PCIe SSDs, the general performance one gets for every day functions is very similar.

This third gen of their current design is fantastic, and its a great time to invest for anyone who wants one though, especially with the 8th gen chips that offer a considerable performance boost.

It is completely fair criticism however when looking at "bang for buck"...today's MacBooks do not offer it as well as they once used to.
 
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That used to be the case back in the day, but Windows 10 is a very efficient OS. It should last much better than the repuation of-old, so far it has. Very old laptops can run Windows 10, older than 2011, can run Windows 10 today whereas 2011 laptops will be losing support for Mojave simply because they don't support the proprietary metal api. Macs ran windows 10 better than they did OS X back when Yosimete came out, because of how scalable it is. It really "fixed" many of the problems and poor reputation that befell Windows in the mid-late 2000s

Today's high end Windows laptops are not the same as high end windows laptops from 2011...they provide the same horsepower (the processors are identical) and similar competetive premium design's. Moreover, you can get an incredible laptop such as the Matebook Pro X for a price that is more akin to the MacBook Air with Broadwell chips and a TN display. That poster had a valid point regarding the extra $$$ and premium. The premium is harder to justify today than it was 6 years ago.

Most people can adapt to Windows and vice versa, but there is always a minority that prefers one to the other. They're both great, and if you are invested in the Apple ecosystem, then there's not much incentive to switch, but its not a wide gap as it once used to be. Apple has been playing catch up more so than they used to in recent times.

On windows you can also get access to much more software. Signature Edition lacks bloatware, and macOS arguably comes with its fair share of bloat now a days too. I can't argue with you on the virus and malware protection though, but you can get some free light programs that work well, and the Windows Security team is night/day difference to Balmer's Microsoft. His reign was probably the lowest point for Windows. Satya Nadella has completely rejuvenated the company imo.

My late 2013 performs well, has the same core retina display, has the same quantity ram and ssd as the low end tb models, and has a superior keyboard... but I also only do Office Suite work and web page related functions, and nothing related to professional video, sound, photo work beyond importing my own personal videos and photos.

The current MacBook Pro design is also suddenly, getting quickly outdated. A few years ago they were sleek, but the slim bezel trend has been pushed forward with high end windows pcs.

To the general price structure increase, I certainly empathize with those who are critical of the price increases.
My current late 2013, I purchased for 1250 CDN pre tax. Granted, the $ was on par back then but even taking into account the modern day different, it would be closer to 1500$...The current base price MBP of same configuration is 1980$ CDN pre tax (~2000$ for the non touch bar) or 2400$ CDN for the tb model

Thanks to Apple switching to PCIe SSDs, the general performance one gets for every day functions is very similar.

This third gen of their current design is fantastic, and its a great time to invest for anyone who wants one though, especially with the 8th gen chips that offer a considerable performance boost.

It is completely fair criticism however when looking at "bang for buck"...today's MacBooks do not offer it as well as they once used to.
Thank you for the very detailed recap of Windows vs Macs.

I should specify that I am simply giving my opinion that the Mac is a better product longevity wise than Windows machines, and to me that is the justified the price. I also use both computers heavily for work, and can say that I have way more bug and software issues on Windows than I do on my Mac, but I guess what do I know, right?

There has always, always been a huge discrepancy between Macs and Windows users. If you inclined to the latter and can afford it then there you go, if you can’t or don’t like it then just go to windows. I think that is a simple advice people can go by. Each type has its fans and is better at some things than the other.
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I think the Inspiron line is quite cheap if you’re just after specs.
But see that’s just it. If people are just looking at specs on paper, ok yeah there are better looking windows machines out there for way less, but I don’t care about the bleeding edge numbers as much as I care about how well a computer and software works together. The specs are useless if the software is buggy, or the computers design is of cheap plastic that breaks when you drop it.

Call me crazy but that’s like buying a Ford Pinto because on paper it says it has 426 hemi loaded in it. There is something to be said about the overall experience, and in my daily experience I still prefer the Apple premium over Windows any day.
 
@Painter2002

I agree with regards to specs - but I can’t remember cheap Windows laptops around ~£500 even 5-10 years ago outside of lines such as the Inspiron? Premium Windows laptops have been expensive for many years, as in, over £1,000 if not £1,500+.

My comment was actually more relating to a now deleted post of yours, of high spec machines for around $500 that were available before.
 
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