The touchbar is going the way of the Dodo - as the ARM-based machines will be hybrids with touch screens, based on the current iPad Pro models. They’ll be running a more open version of iOS rather than Mac OS. I think it’s close to impossible that Apple will release the regular MacOS on ARM.
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Waiting for the 2019 MBP [Merged]
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The touchbar is going the way of the Dodo - as the ARM-based machines will be hybrids with touch screens, based on the current iPad Pro models. They’ll be running a more open version of iOS rather than Mac OS. I think it’s close to impossible that Apple will release the regular MacOS on ARM.
People have said this since the first features started crossing the device divide, and every time it comes up apple refute it.
People said the same thing about running Macs on Intel.
I’m honestly sceptical about the theory they’re abandoning intel completely, particularly in the pro lines. But honesty I think it’s crazy to suggest they don’t already have internal builds of macOS running on some variant of A series chips. They had Mac OS X on intel essentially from day one, as i recall.
I think this is correct.
I think they wanted: 1) MacBook and 2) MacBook Pro as the two tiers of portable Macs.
They could never get the cost of MacBook where it needed to be to act as an introductory sort of jack of all trades laptop for the masses---plus, I don't think the chip technology really developed into what they thought it would, OR the ARM transition, which would make the machine more powerful, didn't pan out on the timeline.
In my opinion, the MacBook was a very, very ambitious swing and miss. The Air is a course correct and I wouldn't be surprised to see the MacBook either go away or turn into the first ARM Mac (I am hoping for the latter).
Given the keyboard issues, I've sort of had a wandering eye to some of these large, thin and light Windows machines with 4K screens--I even think there is an HP OLED laptop.
I don't think I could leave macOS and Alfred, which has becomes muscle memory at this point.
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I think there needs to be a price correction---I get the whole "newer technology costs more," but that MacBook was released in 2015 and costs have not come down. The Air is "new" but the design and the parts are straight out of the MacBook and MacBook Pro lines, so I'm not sure why it needs to be $1,300.00 (really $1,700.00 for me---I couldn't purchase a machine with the less than 16 GB and 500 GBSSD).
And really---Apple couldn't get the Air to 500 nits of brightness and Display P3? I can live without TrueTone, but Display P3 is on every Mac except 1) Air and 2) MacBook (and the MacBook hasn't been updated in years).
Ah, in that case, their overall roadmap must be to destroy the market for their laptops.
I am suspecting this too. They will likely build a new hybrid OS pollinated from iOS and macOS; calling it Apple OS. Apple OS will likely be the start of a transition as the default OS for all Apple devices. It will first roll out on the A Series notebook, Apple will then bring it to iPad, Macs on Intel, iPhone, Apple TV and Apple Watch. It’s a similar strategy to APFS becoming the default file system across all their devices.
Obviously, the benefits will be more internal for developers to write once, run anywhere.
This goes against everything they’ve said and done on the topic since the release of the first non-macOS device.
You can believe what you want, but if you want to debate whether something will happen you need to provide more than “it seems the way things are headed”. That isn’t evidence to support your claim/theory. It’s just your same theory reworded. Why does “it seem” to you?
First of all, all they said was they’re not going to merge iOS with MacOS. And they’re not - they’re letting MacOS die a slow death. It’ll live on until the new ARM devices running iOS have made the Mac obsolete. In the pro sector, this will undoubtedly take a few years.
And secondly: it really doesn’t take much to come to that conclusion. ARM is coming - and that platform simply isn’t powerful enough to run desktop computers at this time. It’s one thing to benchmark the A12 chip on a high-end tablet. But a professional desktop computer or laptop is a whole other beast, needing to drive multiple ports, a full GPU etc. At the same time, the processing power in the iPad Pros is going to waste due to limits in iOS. The only logical conclusion is that they’ll be using ARM for a new kind of iOS device that can make use of the processor’s integrated power on lean consumer-grade machines that will also be able to appeal to certain pros by keeping the touch and pencil experience.
Apple has been pushing the iPad as laptop replacements for years now. If they manage to actually hit the sweet spot by creating a computer that’s truly a laptop AND a tablet, with both working equally well, they’ll have the holy grail of 21st century computing. Microsoft hasn’t managed to do so yet - their two-in-ones are great laptops but fall short as tablets due to the clunkiness of Windows 10 in tablet mode. Apple’s iPads are great tablets but lousy laptops due to the lack of openness in iOS.
Apple always say the won’t do something and they end up doing it: smart phones, tablet, 8 inch tablet, tablet with a stylus and laundry list of others.
Most likely we will have soldered storage again which I am 100% against, I want to be able to change the storage in the future if I want to. The thought of being locked into the storage I chose when I bought it is horrible to me.
That and the new keyboard. If they don't go back to the old type keyboards I won't invest in anything because I don't trust them with their butterflies.
Looks like I will be hunting for a 2.8GHz 15" 2015 model in good condition. I'll just replace the battery and put new thermal paste on it and it should last long for me.
That and the new keyboard. If they don't go back to the old type keyboards I won't invest in anything because I don't trust them with their butterflies.
Looks like I will be hunting for a 2.8GHz 15" 2015 model in good condition. I'll just replace the battery and put new thermal paste on it and it should last long for me.
So your argument that an iOS-based computer will replace current macOS laptops/etc is “arm isn’t powerful enough to run a desktop computer”. Great logic there buddy.
I don’t like to believe it, as I stated.
My point was the same as yours. I asked the question “Why?” following your same logic. I was looking for more information than just “doubt it” because I was curious of the commenter’s reasoning/evidence for simply “doubt it”, hence my question. That’s all.
The status quo works for most professionals. Most people don’t need a debate to not change something.
I've seen this argument quite a number of times on these forums – that ARM is somehow fundamentally handicapped compared to Intel's architecture and its performance peaks that we see on iOS therefore wouldn't translate onto desktop machines or other OSs such as macOS. And I'm really not sure if there's much truth to it at all.
I've read this article a few weeks back, which goes in-depth about the ARM vs x86 topic and debunks some myths around the topic, and one of the conclusions the author reaches is that there isn't really any strong indication that ARM wouldn't translate well into laptops or desktops. The reason as to why we find ARM in mobile devices and x86 in computers is mostly because this is the status quo, and has been for a long time, it just happened to be this way a long time ago for a number of reasons back then, and architecture transitions are slow and take time and the one to ARM has only just started. Not because one is necessarily better than the other, or because one instruction set is inherently superior than the other (RISC v CISC), or because all the benchmarks that compare chips like the A12X to desktop CPUs are synthetic and therefore "meaningless" or because all the performance peaks are somehow doomed to disappear into thin air when we put another OS instead of iOS onto the same hardware.
I'm not really knowledgeable enough about the topic to know if everything he says is true, but he makes many good points that are hard to argue with, and I'd recommend everyone who likes argues in favor of the "ARM is too weak/unsuitable/inferior for laptop/desktop CPUs" argument to give it a read and carefully consider how much of their argument still stands true afterwards. If you still think you have good reasons to believe in the inferiority of ARM chips on PCs/Macs, then sure, I'd like to hear them and I'm not saying all of them are necessarily wrong, but I think a lot of the reasons people have to arrive at these type of conclusions are myths that don't really hold up well anymore. Personally I don't see any good reason right now on why macOS couldn't or wouldn't run (or run well) on ARM. The lines between iOS and macOS may further be blurred, and both are surely going to inherit more features and advantages from each other, but I don't see one replacing the other anytime soon; I don't think macOS is going anywhere, even if a switch to ARM is coming.
Heres a thought Apple: If you’re going to completley redesign something that has been perfectly reliable for decades, how about introducing it with a control group for a few years
The problem is that mistakes do happen, the keyboard issue should of been fixed by now tho. Personally I don’t mind the lack of travel (I can type away with the on screen keyboard on my iPad Pro) but the sticking point for me is the reliability issue of the keyboard. As I’ve mentioned in previous posts, I was all ready to buy one of the new new Air’s however with the keyboard issue I don’t want to take the chance (especially since I don’t have an Apple store within walking distance).
If we assume the Mac is moving to ARM and we see Apple is moving to sort of universal Apps (i.e., Marzipan), can't we agree the Mac and iOS are going to:
- Share silicone and
- Share a codebase?
I am pretty sure that is why we are not seeing Apple Arcade until after WWDC and the new macOS release---Apple Arcade is going to be Marzipan based and in the future, and I'm thinking in the next 2 to five years, modern Macs and iOS devices will have the same (or very similar) silicone and the same codebase.
I think that streamlines everything and makes things simpler for Apple and developers.
I just can't figure out what they will do with "pro" machines, unless they expect you to do that type of work on ARM. Maybe the "pro division" will stay separate on Intel, or maybe it will get to the point where you CAN do that sort of thing on ARM. Adobe is bringing "real" photoshop to iOS---if it's as full featured as it is on Intel, doesn't that bode well for pro photographers? Finally, don't we expect Apple to convert some of it's Pro software to iOS? I think we'll see Final Cut and Logic make the leap to iOS this summer.
As much as we b**tch and moan about Apple and the Mac, I think this is an interesting time to be an Apple fan.
I have absolutely zero doubt that an ARM-based platform can, in the future, be as fast as the current Intel architecture. It’s just not there yet. Which doesn’t mean Apple won’t introduce ARM devices.
And yes, it’s interesting times for Apple users. Unfortunate, Apple hasn’t been very confidence inspiring lately. I’m hoping that’ll change this year though.
They already do share code. iOS has its origins in Mac OS X.
I’m not a software engineer and perhaps not so versed in this terminology, so I think maybe I misuse terms when discussing “code” and “software.”
So here’s what I meant (if I was unclear)—-macOS and iOS “sharing a codebase” that is identical or very close to identical, or perhaps something where “porting” an app between operating systems becomes almost trivial. That’s what I meant.
I suspect you knew that, but wanted to make sure you could nitpick the statement for an inaccuracy, so congrats for doing that.