Watch with Stainless Steel Link Bracelet Orders

[fischersd]

the band does not take 9 hours to make, it takes 9 man hours perhaps but not 9 actual hours to make one band.

Only because I'm too lazy to find the video where Ive says it, here's another reference:

http://9to5mac.com/2015/05/05/apple...-standalone-apple-watch-link-bracelet-orders/

It takes almost 9 hours for the links to be cut by the machine. This has been very well publicized.

Now....who's to say the machine isn't also cutting another 50 bands at the same time???

 

[edlex]

the band does not take 9 hours to make, it takes 9 man hours perhaps but not 9 actual hours to make one band.

Yeah people get all confused with this statement. They think there's one dude sitting in a dark room for 9 hours.

 

[tethead]

Yeah people get all confused with this statement. They think there's one dude sitting in a dark room for 9 hours.

 

[KristofferN]

I have been reading this thread for a week now and enjoy the fact that I am not alone in my misery. This wait is killing me. I guess we should be grateful because not everyone is so fortune to have a problem like we are having. When I find myself getting pissed I have to slap myself and say "you are getting upset over having to wait for a $1k watch, what’s wrong with you, things could be worse"…… I must be getting old to think like this.

Oh and i am a SS LB April 10th @ 3:01 & 30seconds EST order....and still "in Processing" May 13-27 delivery.

 

[fischersd]

I have been reading this thread for a week now and enjoy the fact that I am not alone in my misery. This wait is killing me. I guess we should be grateful because not everyone is so fortune to have a problem like we are having. When I find myself getting pissed I have to slap myself and say "you getting upset over having to wait for a $1k watch, what’s wrong with you, things could be worse"…… I must be getting old to think like this.

+1 People get too worked up over toys. None of use NEED the watch. It's a plaything. "Me wants it!" Hehe We'll all eventually get it...we just have to quell our desire for instant gratification.

 

[n8huckins]

+1 People get too worked up over toys. None of use NEED the watch. It's a plaything. "Me wants it!" Hehe We'll all eventually get it...we just have to quell our desire for instant gratification.

Regardless, we're not even supposed to have it for another 5 days at the earliest LOL.

God is great, beer is good... And people are crazy.

 

[wdfly]

Only because I'm too lazy to find the video where Ive says it, here's another reference:

http://9to5mac.com/2015/05/05/apple...-standalone-apple-watch-link-bracelet-orders/

It takes almost 9 hours for the links to be cut by the machine. This has been very well publicized.

Now....who's to say the machine isn't also cutting another 50 bands at the same time???

man hours and hours are not the same thing. mass production.

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Yeah people get all confused with this statement. They think there's one dude sitting in a dark room for 9 hours.

lol yeah

 

[fischersd]

man hours and hours are not the same thing. mass production.

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lol yeah

Yep, but I think you had it reversed. It does take (duration) an actual 9 hours, it does NOT take 9 man hours (worker effort).

 

[edlex]

Image

The Keymaker is now the Linkmaker!!!

 

[bixizero]

Us anyone received their link bracket yet?

 

[nanocustoms]

I'm a CNC machinist and Product developer, and a common thing in Workflow/Shop management with parallel processing is a "Flow Shop".

In any process, you have 2 states.

- Machine Waiting on Parts
- Parts waiting on machine

When you have something thats as time intensive as the link bracelets, you have a lot of "Parts waiting on machine" type bottlenecks.

Apple hires hundreds if not thousands of industrial engineers to work out these kinks.

My theory all along has been that they started production of the link models FIRST. This allows them to process enough link bracelets to cover all the orders (demand was probably smaller due to higher selling price).

They probably discovered the faulty taptic engines in these units and had to scrap them.

What we all wanted as consumers who ordered the Link version is for them to bump all SS models that were scrapped to fulfill our orders, but I think the engineers figured it would hurt more customers who ordered the less expensive units and decided to post the 4-6 week lead time for the Links out of the gate.

The Black SS undergoes a DLC (Diamond like Carbon) finishing process, so if my theory is correct, it was a game stopper for this model.

Anyways... take it with a grain of salt. I don't work for apple (although I do work for an MFi MFG --- Braeburn Acoustics).

Cheers

Chris

 

[gameboy213]

I still wish we had gotten at least some watches with link bands before the link orders went out on their own.

I just don't think that was right. Yes I saw the delivery window. Yes I knew it when I ordered. But it doesn't make me happy.

 

[wdfly]

Yep, but I think you had it reversed. It does take (duration) an actual 9 hours, it does NOT take 9 man hours (worker effort).

no i have it correct. it does not take 9 hours 8:00 am to 5:00 pm to create 1 band. that is 9 hours. the people making these things may be able to produce say 100 in one actual hour 8:00 am to 9:00 am. that is in effect about 9 man hours per band if you assume 9 people work for 1 hour to create the parts needed for and assemble 1 band per actual hour. that is man hours. i've worked in manufacturing and construction my whole working career and have a very firm understanding of man hours vs. actual time.

 

[fischersd]

They probably discovered the faulty taptic engines in these units and had to scrap them.

That's the only piece I disagree with. These are made in China. Labour is cheap. If they would have had any of these assembled, they would have popped out the innards of the watch (possibly scrapping the entire core, depending on how expensive it is to remove the taptic engine and solder on a new one) and put a new core in the body.
As the lines are designed to integrate the bands with the bodies at the end, they may have reboxed the bands as well (not retail boxes - the generic ones they use for internal, manufacturing stock - or trays, maybe they're on trays by the dozens). In any regard, they wouldn't scrap more components than they had to - that would just be silly.

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no i have it correct. it does not take 9 hours 8:00 am to 5:00 pm to create 1 band. that is 9 hours. the people making these things may be able to produce say 100 in one actual hour 8:00 am to 9:00 am. that is in effect about 9 man hours per band if you assume 9 people work for 1 hour to create the parts needed for and assemble 1 band per actual hour. that is man hours. i've worked in manufacturing and construction my whole working career and have a very firm understanding of man hours vs. actual time.

You're still missing it. The duration of time from the raw steel starting to be cut to the band being boxed is likely over 9 hours, as they've stated the duration of time it takes to cut the links is almost 9 hours.

I don't think anyone is saying there's actually 9 man hours in a band.

(whether you have 9 people for one hour, or one person for 9 hours, that's the same amount of effort) THAT is man hours - I think that's what we're agreeing on.

What you seem to be disagreeing with is that the duration is around 9 hours. So, you're calling Jony a liar. Because I'm pretty sure it's him in that video that says that it takes nearly 9 hours to cut the links from a single piece of steel. (why they think it's important to say it's a single piece is beyond me...it's not like wood, where you're preserving the consistency of the grain or anything).

Anyway, I digress. It's duration. The actual time spent from the commencement of cutting to being put in a box that we're saying is 9 hours. Don't like it? E-mail Jony and tell him he's lying because you understand their manufacturing processes better than he does.

 

[JayLenochiniMac]

My theory all along has been that they started production of the link models FIRST. This allows them to process enough link bracelets to cover all the orders (demand was probably smaller due to higher selling price).

They probably discovered the faulty taptic engines in these units and had to scrap them.

Sure, but it doesn't mean they have the scrap the link bracelets too. They could have simply salvaged them and transfer to the working cases, which they seem to have plenty of as seen with the classic buckle and I'm sure they're selling way more of the classic buckle due to the lower price.

 

[piker944]

Does anyone have info on what time of day those with other watch/band combos are seeing their credit cards charged and/or status change to Preparing for Shipment? Wondering if there's a window during which that usually happens or if it's evenly spread throughout the day. If I know nothing is going to happen after 3pm Pacific each day (as an example), then I can stop checking the status and wait until the following day.

I'm sure i could figure it out by scouring other threads, but I'm pretty much devoted to this thread only at this point.

 

[wdfly]

That's the only piece I disagree with. These are made in China. Labour is cheap. If they would have had any of these assembled, they would have popped out the innards of the watch (possibly scrapping the entire core, depending on how expensive it is to remove the taptic engine and solder on a new one) and put a new core in the body.
As the lines are designed to integrate the bands with the bodies at the end, they may have reboxed the bands as well (not retail boxes - the generic ones they use for internal, manufacturing stock - or trays, maybe they're on trays by the dozens). In any regard, they wouldn't scrap more components than they had to - that would just be silly.

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You're still missing it. The duration of time from the raw steel starting to be cut to the band being boxed is likely over 9 hours, as they've stated the duration of time it takes to cut the links is almost 9 hours.

I don't think anyone is saying there's actually 9 man hours in a band.

(whether you have 9 people for one hour, or one person for 9 hours, that's the same amount of effort) THAT is man hours - I think that's what we're agreeing on.

What you seem to be disagreeing with is that the duration is around 9 hours. So, you're calling Jony a liar. Because I'm pretty sure it's him in that video that says that it takes nearly 9 hours to cut the links from a single piece of steel. (why they think it's important to say it's a single piece is beyond me...it's not like wood, where you're preserving the consistency of the grain or anything).

Anyway, I digress. It's duration. The actual time spent from the commencement of cutting to being put in a box that we're saying is 9 hours. Don't like it? E-mail Jony and tell him he's lying because you understand their manufacturing processes better than he does.

no sorry you actually have it backwards it does not take 9 total linear hours to create each band that is actual time. johny ive is stating that it takes 9 man hours to create each band. that's 9 people working for 1 hour or 18 for 30 minutes etc. that is production time or man hours. one person is not tasked with making one complete band per day, each person will be tasked with making 1 part of 1 band over and over and over and they will make as many as possible during the course of their shift. this is what mass production is all about and it's far more efficient than one person making one whole assembly per day.

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Sure, but it doesn't mean they have the scrap the link bracelets too. They could have simply salvaged them and transfer to the working cases, which they seem to have plenty of as seen with the classic buckle and I'm sure they're selling way more of the classic buckle due to the lower price.

this is why i'm certain they didn't make any of these bands till people ordered them. they didn't want to expend the money to make them until people ordered them.

 

[Ken30307]

no sorry you actually have it backwards it does not take 9 total linear hours to create each band that is actual time. johny ive is stating that it takes 9 man hours to create each band. that's 9 people working for 1 hour or 18 for 30 minutes etc. that is production time or man hours. one person is not tasked with making one complete band per day, each person will be tasked with making 1 part of 1 band over and over and over and they will make as many as possible during the course of their shift. this is what mass production is all about and it's far more efficient than one person making one whole assembly per day.

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this is why i'm certain they didn't make any of these bands till people ordered them. they didn't want to expend the money to make them until people ordered them.

My theory is that they gave them out to reviewers but didn't have enough left to actually sell!

 

[fischersd]

no sorry you actually have it backwards it does not take 9 total linear hours to create each band that is actual time. johny ive is stating that it takes 9 man hours to create each band. that's 9 people working for 1 hour or 18 for 30 minutes etc. that is production time or man hours. one person is not tasked with making one complete band per day, each person will be tasked with making 1 part of 1 band over and over and over and they will make as many as possible during the course of their shift. this is what mass production is all about and it's far more efficient than one person making one whole assembly per day.

Here's the quote:

http://l2.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/b...pple_9_hours-71f13fe984347d4731b84854c523a4a3

9 hours to cut the links

So, you think they have 9 people cutting away with tiny little saws for 1 hour?

Nope, it's in a CNC machine for 9 hours. Possibly using a water cutter. Likely cutting about 50 - 100 bands at the same time from a big sheet of stainless.

Who knows how many actual man hours are in the bands...the polishing process could be automated as well.

Anyways...enough on that damn topic. You're not going to get it and I'm not going to repeat myself again.

 

[nanocustoms]

Sure, but it doesn't mean they have the scrap the link bracelets too. They could have simply salvaged them and transfer to the working cases, which they seem to have plenty of as seen with the classic buckle and I'm sure they're selling way more of the classic buckle due to the lower price.

I agree. That's what I would have done if i was in their position, but what if the flaw was discovered after they were all packaged?

Not sure, but are the boxes serialized? I know my iPhone boxes have serial numbers on them. i.e. Serial number of the device on the box? Maybe they had to re-label all the boxes too?

IONO.

Just want my wife's watch and my Black SS Link.

 

[piker944]

I may regret this, but I'm jumping into the "9 hours" discussion.

There's no way it's 9 hours end to end. It's 9 man hours, which could equate to many machines working simultaneously such that 1 band is churned out every 1 hour or less. Even if Jony's statement about "cut from one piece of metal" is true, it more likely looks something like this. Let's assume there are 18 link pieces in each band (for simplicity's sake)

1. Huge piece of metal is cut by 18 blades simultaneously (rough cuts to create 18 link pieces. - 10 min

2. Said 18 pieces are moved to separate finishing machines designed to further refine the cut of those pieces (remember, each link of the band is a slightly different size because they taper toward the clasp). These machines all work simultaneously - 10 min

3. Each piece then heads to its own brushing/polishing machine (which could still be considered machining), again all working simultaneously. This does not preclude additional brushing/polishing by hand as Apple claims happens to each band. - 10 min

Time for movement/cooling/other that happens to the band in between does not count. But the fact remains that you can easily count of "9 hours of machining" that could happen on a single band that happens over 30 min or less of actual elapsed time.

Starting with a single chunk of metal and sending it through a machine or series of machines that does 9 hours of machining serially (rather than concurrently) would be ludicrous.

There, now let the barrage of insults to my intelligence begin!

 

[n8huckins]

Here's the quote:

http://l2.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/b...pple_9_hours-71f13fe984347d4731b84854c523a4a3

9 hours to cut the links

So, you think they have 9 people cutting away with tiny little saws for 1 hour?

Nope, it's in a CNC machine for 9 hours. Possibly using a water cutter. Likely cutting about 50 - 100 bands at the same time from a big sheet of stainless.

Who knows how many actual man hours are in the bands...the polishing process could be automated as well.

Anyways...enough on that damn topic. You're not going to get it and I'm not going to repeat myself again.

I don't think he understands, nor will he ever. +1 to you for trying!

 

[tethead]

I may regret this, but I'm jumping into the "9 hours" discussion.

There's no way it's 9 hours end to end. It's 9 man hours, which could equate to many machines working simultaneously such that 1 band is churned out every 1 hour or less. Even if Jony's statement about "cut from one piece of metal" is true, it more likely looks something like this. Let's assume there are 18 link pieces in each band (for simplicity's sake)

1. Huge piece of metal is cut by 18 blades simultaneously (rough cuts to create 18 link pieces. - 10 min

2. Said 18 pieces are moved to separate finishing machines designed to further refine the cut of those pieces (remember, each link of the band is a slightly different size because they taper toward the clasp). These machines all work simultaneously - 10 min

3. Each piece then heads to its own brushing/polishing machine (which could still be considered machining), again all working simultaneously. This does not preclude additional brushing/polishing by hand as Apple claims happens to each band. - 10 min

Time for movement/cooling/other that happens to the band in between does not count. But the fact remains that you can easily count of "9 hours of machining" that could happen on a single band that happens over 30 min or less of actual elapsed time.

Starting with a single chunk of metal and sending it through a machine or series of machines that does 9 hours of machining serially (rather than concurrently) would be ludicrous.

There, now let the barrage of insults to my intelligence begin!

Your mother was a hamster, and your father smelt of elderberries!

 

[echo44]

what if its actually women assembling them ?
how many women hours?

 

[bunnicula]

Yeah people get all confused with this statement. They think there's one dude sitting in a dark room for 9 hours.

It doesn't confuse me. Whether you have 3 guys working for 9 hours on one band each or 3 guys each working for 3 hours on each of 3 bands (for a total of 9 man hours per band) at the end of 9 hours you'll still have 3 bands.