WatchOS 9 beta... anyone try the new running features?

[msackey]

So I was able to test the race feature yesterday on my Ultra and it worked pretty good overall except I think I saw a glitch though I’m not 100 percent sure. Let me describe:

I have an out and back loop that I typically run if I want to do a short run. The turnaround is right at the end of a bridge and that is also where I typically press the Action button to mark a segment. When I started this race route yesterday, the Watch was steadily indicating that I was about 42 seconds ahead of my recorded personal best and it maintained that figure even though I kept running faster, or at least I thought I was. I can’t totally vouch for the accuracy of my perception because I am really no longer a competitive runner and don’t run to train like I used to nor do I hone in various running skills. Anyhow, it did feel like I was running faster and faster but the Watch indicated only about 42 seconds ahead. At my turnaround point, I hit the Action button like normal to mark a segment, and then a few seconds after I turned around, the Watch indicated that I was now 2+ minutes (yes, minutes!) ahead of my personal best. How could that be? That’s a big jump from 42 seconds to 2+ minutes in a matter of just seconds. At the end of this race, I was about 3 minutes ahead of my personal best.

I’m pleased that the Watch could detect I was near a race route and it knew when I had reached the ”finishing line” of the race.

I’m going to do another race of the same route in the next few days and see if I see this glitch again.

Then, I also have a question about track detection which I’m going to test today:

When I run intervals on a track, I would do the run portion on Lane 1 and then kinda drift all around the track during the recovery sessions for a number of reasons:
1. Lane 1 curves are tight and if like I used to when I trained on the track twice a week for long periods, using a different lane for the recovery helped to ease the knees on tight curves. So when I was done running an interval on Lane 1, I’d slowly drift to some other lane to run the recovery.
2. I trained in a track club (not anymore though) and to be courteous to those also training, anyone who was doing a recovery would scoot off of Lane 1 and move to other lanes but we aren’t necessarily sticking to one lane during recovery (e.g., running on lane 4 and 5 back and forth). I don’t want to make it sound like we were just drifting here and there but we weren’t so concerned about strictly keeping to one lane during recovery especially because…
3. Recovery was often measured in time and not distance so it kinda didn’t really matter if you wobbled all around the “recovery” portions of the track while you wait for the next interval to begin. Sometimes the recovery portion was measured (e.g., 100m recovery) then in those cases yeah we would say drift from lane 1 after the interval to lane 4 or 5 or 6 and then run the 100m and then drift back to lane 1 just before we begin our intervals.

All this said, HOW is the Apple Watch going to detect and record all these lane changes during a track session? Having to manually indicate what track I’m on during recovery is distracting and doesn’t make much sense if you’re drifting from lane to lane during recovery. And actually, I do like those recoveries recorded because it does count as activity, good to see what heart rate was during those periods, and so forth.

 

[jcmc]

Tried my first 10km run using the Race Route feature today. Some thoughts.

The good: Worked well from the start and it was really useful to see in that level of granular detail where I was at any particular point. Within 4km I was 50 seconds ahead of my PB on that route. As I progressed this slipped back to 32 seconds and encouraged me to put in a strong finish to get back to around 50 again. Pleased.

The visualisation is good too and the combination of the green text (red too I'm sure though I did not see this in this particular race) and the graphic was very legible and glanceable. I speak as someone with middle-aged, glasses-needing eyes who struggles to read the standard metrics typically while running, even using the Ultra and its large screen.

The not so good: The ending. Somewhere I saw someone post a shot of a screen which tells you whether you won or lost your 'race'. This might be just the way I end runs - at the last km announcement I pause the race immediately and then end it so I am not getting irrelevant seconds added to my overall time. So not sure the most natural way to end one of these race route races might be.

The audio. I usually have announcements set to km split times (works), Average Pace (doesn't work) and Target. With the update you can set audio announcement for Race too. For the duration of my race I got an announcement within 30 seconds or so telling me I was ahead of Target, I got my km splits announced but nothing at all for Race.

I don't of course know what you might expect from this anyway, though I thought it might give me periodic announcement saying I was X seconds ahead in the Race. Now, I was ahead of my old PB for the entirety of the race so perhaps if I fell behind, I might get an announcement for that. I'll have to test this more but, in essence, the only Race feedback I got was visual.

The other 'bad' thing is that if I now go into Workouts on my Ultra, the two suggested regular routes that were present and correct after I updated to 9.2, one of which I ran successfully today, have disappeared. I do hope they return!

So a promising feature but one that's either still a little underdeveloped and / or buggy. As an aside I cannot work out why they can't fix the Average Pace announcements bug.

 

[msackey]

The not so good: The ending. Somewhere I saw someone post a shot of a screen which tells you whether you won or lost your 'race'. This might be just the way I end runs - at the last km announcement I pause the race immediately and then end it so I am not getting irrelevant seconds added to my overall time. So not sure the most natural way to end one of these race route races might be.

I don't think you have to manually end it. Because I don't really have very clear start and end points for my regular routes, I just kept running until the Watch told me I had completed my race. I don't recall what the feedback was but I think it was some haptic feedback and a change in the visual display. However, because I'm then in cool down mode, instead of stopping my watch I just kept letting it run. I don't know how it figures that cool down mode in the future though.

Thanks for the report! Good to hear more details from other people's experiences.

 

[NME42]

Thanks for your reports. What is the semantics of the middle bar that is in green or red color? I surely understand that green means I am ahead and red back. As I was running faster than my reference run, the little runner icon moved further to the right and painted the bar green almost until the end of the run when suddenly the bar was all grey.
As my time being ahead did not change significantly during the run, I am not sure what this graph is telling me when extending to the right.

The grey vertical bars are elevation of the route, right? As I am living in an entirely flat area, it is hard to tell what it is ;-).

Another question: does the replay mean, the previous run is replayed exactly as I was or is the pacer just taking the average pace throughout the entire run?

 

[xDKP]

Amazing feedback. Loving this thread more and more. I have yet to try it, it can see that my watch lists a 10k and 12k route I usually run and even my effort today from the 12k. Excited to try it out

 

[msackey]

Thanks for your reports. What is the semantics of the middle bar that is in green or red color? I surely understand that green means I am ahead and red back. As I was running faster than my reference run, the little runner icon moved further to the right and painted the bar green almost until the end of the run when suddenly the bar was all grey.
As my time being ahead did not change significantly during the run, I am not sure what this graph is telling me when extending to the right.

Hmm...I though the further the runner icon is to the right with more green behind it, it means the runner is (you are) faster than the time you are competing against.

The grey vertical bars are elevation of the route, right? As I am living in an entirely flat area, it is hard to tell what it is ;-).

Yes, the elevation is what goes up and down. Even though it feels like you live in an entirely flat area, I bet any small ups and downs are detected.

Another question: does the replay mean, the previous run is replayed exactly as I was or is the pacer just taking the average pace throughout the entire run?

Good question!!! I wonder. If the pacer is really pacing as you previously ran the route, that would be AWESOME.

 

[msackey]

Ok, so I have some more to report on track detection. I'm not sure how to make this a report, so maybe I'll just enumerate the various points.

1.
I wondered if my local high school's track was regulation size and yes indeed it was. I parked my car nearby, started the Outdoor Run mode and very soon after I stepped foot on the track, the Watch detected that I was on a track and asked what lane I was in.

2.
First test: I chose lane 1 and it was, indeed, very accurate regarding its measurements! I'm very pleasantly surprised. So what I did was I input lane 1 when the Watch detected I was on a track. Because of how I entered the track, I was not at the starting position so I just continued jogging until I go to the starting line, then I hit the Action button to begin a lap and ran my 400m, then hit the Action button again to mark another segment. Then...

3.
I deviated to, if I recall, Lane 3 or 4 to do a recovery job to see if the Watch would detect that I had deviated from Lane 1 and offer to change my Lanes for me. No such thing happened, but I may not have given it enough time? I think I ran probably at least 100m on Lane 3 or 4 and the Watch still indicated I was running on 1. So, what I did was manually change the Watch indication to Lane 1. This wasn't a very systematic test as are neither any of the other points that follow.

4.
I wondered what the entire run would show afterwards, whether the map would show me running on Lane 1 when I was on Lane 3 or 4 before I manually changed the Watch to Lane 1. It looks to accurately map that I was on some other lane.

5.
I did a few more tests as #3 above where after running on say Lane 2, I did a recovery job on Lane 6 without initially changing the Watch to indicate Lane 6. It never detected that I had changed lanes, but again I don't know if I gave the Watch enough time, nor do I know if it's supposed to detect lane deviation.

6.
I finished my exercise with a fast 400m run on Lane 1, then switched the Watch to Lane 6 and did another lap on Lane 6. Then, without making any changes to lane indication, I jogged out of the track area back towards my car wondering if the Watch will detect I'm no longer on a track. I'd say probably after leaving the track for 20 seconds, or about 80 meters, the Watch indicated it detected that I was no longer on the track and asked me to confirm (something like that).

This is a pretty nifty feature and I intend to play some more with it in the upcoming weeks! I wish Apple provided more documentation about the track detection (and race route) features!

 

[jcmc]

Good question!!! I wonder. If the pacer is really pacing as you previously ran the route, that would be AWESOME.

The strong impression I got from my 10km yesterday is that yes, it calculates against your exact previous position rather than your average over the course of the race.

 

[NME42]

Do you get a consistent offering of previous courses? Even though I ran quite a lot courses more than two times, I only get a subset to race against. Filter is active.

 

[xDKP]

Do you get a consistent offering of previous courses? Even though I ran quite a lot courses more than two times, I only get a subset to race against. Filter is active.

As far as I understand you also need to be close by the starting point of the route for it to show up?

 

[NME42]

As far as I understand you also need to be close by the starting point of the route for it to show up?

Hmmm. Almost all of my routes start at home. Some show up and get updated, some not.

 

[msackey]

I did another Track run (more like goofing around with a portion being for running ;-) ). Everything I reported earlier seems accurate. I did try out one other thing I discovered a somewhat rather unusual behaviour, I think.

At the end of my track runs, I did an experiment on Lane 5 to see what would happen if I marked the start of a lap, then ran clockwise (i.e., not the typical run) for 100 m, then run back to the starting point and continued. Interestingly, the Apple Watch indicated I had completed a lap. Not sure what to make of that...

And yes, it looks like deviating from my chosen lap doesn't make the Apple Watch ask if I am changing lanes, but on the recorded Map, it looks to accurately show that I have moved away from the lane.

Perhaps most of you already know this, but there is a users guide to WatchOS 9 that includes the new features of 9.2. https://support.apple.com/guide/watch/track-detection-apd2fc7911cf/watchos However, I wonder about the accuracy of a piece of information. I think the guide indicates that if you bring your phone along with you for the run, it'll use that for GPS instead of the Watch. I think that's accurate for all Apple Watches except the Ultra, isn't it? Or has that now changed because of WatchOS 9.2?

Also discovered from the user guide about lap alerts which I have found very helpful.

 

[NME42]

I think the guide indicates that if you bring your phone along with you for the run, it'll use that for GPS instead of the Watch. I think that's accurate for all Apple Watches except the Ultra, isn't it?

accurate for all 2022 Apple Watches: Ultra, S8, SE2

 

[msackey]

accurate for all 2022 Apple Watches: Ultra, S8, SE2

Really? At some point during the recent Apple Keynote address, I think it was indicated that the Ultra always uses its GPS for fitness tracking even if your phone is around. Presumably this is because the Ultra has dual-band GPS and therefore greater accuracy than any current iPhones?

Update: This isn't official documentation, but the OP of this thread also indicates that the Ultra always uses its GPS even if the iPhone is around: https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...n-if-you-bring-your-connected-iphone.2358832/

 

[NME42]

Really?

Yes. DC Rainmaker mentioned this in a video I can not find.

But in the individual reviews for S8 and SE2 you find the info. Look at the GPS section:

Apple Watch Series 8 In-Depth Review

While all eyes last week were on the Apple Watch Ultra, the reality is that the Series 8 will sell the most units (by far), has almost every software feature of the Ultra, and includes the same slate of massive

www.dcrainmaker.com

Too bad it is only the 2022 models, but I can wait until autumn 2023 patiently when I buy my next AW. Not that I often run with both AW and iPhone, almost never.

 

[msackey]

@NME42, I think we are both saying that the Apple Watch Ultra relies on its internal GPS even when the iPhone is around. Maybe there was some misunderstanding somewhere.

DC Rainmaker indicates this is true for the other 2022 models:

For all the new 2022 year watches, including the Apple Watch Ultra, Apple Watch Series 8, and Apple Watch SE 2nd Gen, Apple has changed how it does GPS lock. Specifically, it no longer depends on the phone like it used to (if the phone was within range). Now, it’s entirely self-standing in all scenarios.

Source: https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2022/09/apple-watch-ultra-in-depth-review-its-a-start.html

 

[NME42]

Ah, @msackey, no native speaker. Misread your initial posting.

Ultra, S8, SE2 do not utilize iPhone GPS when it is in range. All other models do.

 

[NME42]

@msackey : seems Apple has read this thread and posted a clarification. DC Rainmaker wrote an article about the GPS iPhone topic:

Notable: Apple Formally Clarifies iPhone GPS Dependency Shift on Series 8, Ultra, SE (2022)

Let me set expectations up front: This post is 100% written for sports tech GNSS geeks. You see, back when the 2022 Apple Watch editions were announced back in September, there was one significant change: None of the new 2022

www.dcrainmaker.com

 

[msackey]

@msackey : seems Apple has read this thread and posted a clarification. DC Rainmaker wrote an article about the GPS iPhone topic:

Notable: Apple Formally Clarifies iPhone GPS Dependency Shift on Series 8, Ultra, SE (2022)

Let me set expectations up front: This post is 100% written for sports tech GNSS geeks. You see, back when the 2022 Apple Watch editions were announced back in September, there was one significant change: None of the new 2022

www.dcrainmaker.com

hehe Thank you for pointing out that post! It really helps to settle down all the confusion, doesn't it?

In my specific situation, I do prefer using the Ultra's GPS because a) it is dual-band GPS whereas my phone (iPhone 12) is not; and b) there's enough battery life on my Ultra. I NEVER carry my phone with me when running, but I do when biking.

 

[NME42]

hehe Thank you for pointing out that post! It really helps to settle down all the confusion, doesn't it?

In my specific situation, I do prefer using the Ultra's GPS because a) it is dual-band GPS whereas my phone (iPhone 12) is not; and b) there's enough battery life on my Ultra. I NEVER carry my phone with me when running, but I do when biking.

Yes, settles it. But still do not understand technically, why the previous models do not get at least an option to decide if GPS is taken from iPhone or not. But ok.

GPS quality with iPhone nearby has for me always been very bad.

 

[NME42]

Did my second run with the "race route" feature.
First, disappointing was, that my last "race" did not update the route parameters. Duration and pace was not updated.
Second: I still do not understand the grey bar in the middle. I checked it multiple times and it was flat as flat can be. Sure, my route is almost flat, but there are still some minor bumps in there. Almost at the end of the run, an elevation profile was displayed.

After all, it was a fun run as a made a fartlek out of it. As my previous run was more or less steady, I was running first slower to be behind and then 3km faster to close the gap. Then 3km slower and so on. Pure fun all 20km.

 

[msackey]

Did my second run with the "race route" feature.
First, disappointing was, that my last "race" did not update the route parameters. Duration and pace was not updated.
Second: I still do not understand the grey bar in the middle. I checked it multiple times and it was flat as flat can be. Sure, my route is almost flat, but there are still some minor bumps in there. Almost at the end of the run, an elevation profile was displayed.

After all, it was a fun run as a made a fartlek out of it. As my previous run was more or less steady, I was running first slower to be behind and then 3km faster to close the gap. Then 3km slower and so on. Pure fun all 20km.

Interesting observation. I've only used the race route feature once and the weather for the next 1.5 week does not look good for me to use it. The Watch had only detected 2 race routes I can use where I generally run, which is about accurate, and both race routes go through a flood plain. Issue: it's not only going to be extremely cold but also very wet so can't race those routes as they'll be flooded! lol

I'll write back any observations regarding race route when I'm next able to use it.

 

[NME42]

Did my second run with the "race route" feature.
First, disappointing was, that my last "race" did not update the route parameters. Duration and pace was not updated.

So my second run did update the route parameters over night. Whatever happened to the first "race route" run.

 

[NME42]

Issue: it's not only going to be extremely cold but also very wet so can't race those routes as they'll be flooded!

Please stay safe!

 

[jcmc]

After using the Race Route feature for the first time, the two eligible routes I run that had shown up disappeared. They did come back the next day and updated the last 10km time to now be the best one too.

So I ran 10km again today to try out Race Route for a second time. This time as soon as I hit the end of the race, I got an announcement and visualisation that I had won it which was missing the first time. Everything worked fine with it and I now at least understand the audio cues that go with this feature.

I started a little slower than my PB run and got a 'You're Behind' prmpt. For the first km or so I was on a very similar pace to before and three or four times it jumped between 'You're Behind' and 'You're Ahead'. After that point I pulled clear and thus never heard it again.

The audio accompaniment side is perhaps the only slightly underwhelming aspect of what is a generally well-executed feature. It really gives you no more or no different information than the Target option if you set that Target to match your PB and, if you trail or lead a time constantly from early on then you get no audio granularity at all. I think it should gve you an update several times in a race along the lines of 'You're ahead by 25 seconds' or 'You're Behind by 44 seconds' to enable you to imagine better the status of the race you are having.

Now people might say that you do get all this on the visualisation showing on the watch - and this is indeed very good -however it's a bugbear of mine that you should not have to rely on visuals when many people with older eyes might struggle (as I do) to make out the figures when you are moving and sweating. I'm using an Ultra too, so I can imagine using a 41mm for this purpose could be difficult.