Web Browsing Performance on Android 2.2 Hampered by Flash Compatibility

[AidenShaw]

As for control, the hardware is Apple's, if you don't like what you can or can't do with it, stop buying the products.

It would be nice if "buying" the product gave me some say in how I'm able to use it.

2. Most Virus and Trojans today are delivered to computers using flash.

Back this up with a link to a reliable source - or we should consider it to be BS.

5. Flash still crashes my Windows 7 64bit machine with 4Gig of Ram.

Really? Running Flash gives you a BSOD?

Even though Flash is 32-bit?

This one smells too....

 

[rhett7660]

What's misleading about Opera Mini? They tell you how it works. It's a great browser. In fact I'm using it to post this comment.

I have yet to see someone give a gold reason on why users shouldn't have a choice in enabling Flash content.

And you won't get one because there really isn't one. Give us a choice. Nothing wrong with that. However I can already hear those saying the device sucks because battery life (if in fact it does drain the battery quicker) is 'X' hours and all I do all day long is play on the internet.

 

[KnightWRX]

#3 is not going to be viable all the time. Chances are web designers will make sure a flash site comes up for android phones once most of them support it. If you disable flash on the android they will still try to send you the flash version of the website which might require flash(for advertising purposes maybe). The iphone in some of those cases might get a non flash version of the site because the iphone doesn't have an option for flash so the developer made sure to provide a non flash page for them.

So Android people won't see the ad if Flash is disabled and the iPhone people will ? Sounds like an Android advantage right there.

 

[jimmyjoemccrow]

Is having the kitchen sink more important than user experience?

If smoothness is not an issue I guess you would have no problem if Sony or Microsoft shipped all their games running at 15 frames a second!

wow what a terrible analogy.

 

[KnightWRX]

And you won't get one because there really isn't one. Give us a choice. Nothing wrong with that. However I can already hear those saying the device sucks because battery life (if in fact it does drain the battery quicker) is 'X' hours and all I do all day long is play on the internet.

So what, playing games results in the same battery drain. Why should Internet games be different ? Hint, HTML5 Canvas games are going to be monster battery drains also.

 

[TuffLuffJimmy]

opera mini is fine for non data secure tasks....they have server side rendering in Nigeria!

/facepalm

1. Flash is a major securrity hole with endless bloated in size security patches that adobe has not shown in the past it can ever fix

specifically which holes are left unpatched in Flash?

2. Most Virus and Trojans today are delivered to computers using flash.

that's a lie.

3. Most Adult and Download sites are loaded with flash based spyware, adware and trojans.

this is also a lie.

4> Android Users will have a choice to get hacked

At least they have a choice to play outside the sandbox.

 

[rhett7660]

So what, playing games results in the same battery drain. Why should Internet games be different ? Hint, HTML5 Canvas games are going to be monster battery drains also.

I am agreeing... but I can already hear the cries about battery life. I however want flash content as it is everywhere and I want access to it on my mobile devices.

 

[zenoran]

Froyo is indeed snappy... Flash on the other hand is still in early beta stages but I must say, it is nice to see a COMPLETE webpage when needed instead of seeing blank spots and being frustrated.

This is the first beta release for android and they even said it doesn't even begin to take advantage of the hardware acceleration of the device... it's software based... so the fact that it even performs as well as it does is rather amazing imo.

At the end of the day, I find it ironic when I reach for my Nexus after trying to browse "the entire internet in [my] hands" on my iPad, and finding the all-to-frequent big 'ol "flash player required" notice.

I'm not saying flash is efficient and/or there aren't better options (HTML5), but the fact is it IS on the large majority of the web... and IMO it is the responsibility of the device to give its users the option to view ALL content, regardless of its CEO's bias towards the technology.

I bought an iPad... I enjoy using it... when I'm in an app... but if there isn't an app for it, it generally isn't all that great of an experience to be "the internet in the palm of your hand." Jobs needs to get over the whole flash thing and give people what they're asking for.

 

[Chwisch87]

Google VP at the Google i/o conference.

"It turns out that on the Internet, people use Flash and part of being open is being inclusive rather than exclusive. And you're open to innovation."

"And BTW a special thanks to Adobe for their incredible willingness to work with us, engage with us on Android and in Chrome and many other areas. Its really fun to work with other folks in the ecosystem to meet the needs of users. Much nicer than just saying no".

Maybe if Apple worked with Adobe, Safari wouldn't crash so much with flash. I have never had an issue with Chrome and Flash ... maybe if they were willing to work with them, they wouldn't have these issues. Of course that would mean they might have to share code base with Adobe, which is something apple isn't willing to do. Of course Google doesn't really have this issue cause they are open source..

Full discloser - Unless something amazing happens at WWDC, I am switching to an android based phone. There, I will have at least the option to turn flash on.

 

[BaldiMac]

I have yet to see someone give a gold reason on why users shouldn't have a choice in enabling Flash content.

I can think of a good reason.

Apple does not want to support any issues related to Flash on the iPhone including privacy, stability, security, and efficiency. They also wish to promote web standards over proprietary solutions controlled by a single company for web content. They don't want to support both options because it will slow down the adoption of the emerging standards.

You have seen these reasons before, and they are good reasons. Even if you don't agree with them.

Flash Player 10.1 is the most significant release of Flash Player since it introduced video. Do you really think it would include all of the current improvements if Apple didn't refuse to include previous versions (and Lite versions) in the iPhone?

I've been blocking Flash longer than I've had a Mac. Basically, since I found out about LSOs (Flash supercookies) that ignored my browsers security and privacy settings and were maintained indefinitely. And that Flash maintains a global list of websites that you have visited that use Flash. And that the way that Adobe expects you to control this list is through a random website that is not accessible through the Flash Player. As of 10.0, the situation is still the same.

 

[Ayria]

bye bye flash

Dear old Flash, you've been a fairly decent servant

Rest in peace.

I also am ironing my black suit - but i won't mourn long

 

[Ayria]

And you won't get one because there really isn't one. Give us a choice. Nothing wrong with that. However I can already hear those saying the device sucks because battery life (if in fact it does drain the battery quicker) is 'X' hours and all I do all day long is play on the internet.

The whole "I want a choice" argument is rubbish...

YOU AND I have a choice - it is my choice that i don't want a choice and i don't want flash that is why i buy an iPhone or iPad. That is my choice. If you don't like it stop whining and don't buy it.

It is like going into a Chinese restaurant and demanding "I demand hamburgers and fries - freedom of choice' - No! You already made a choice by walking into the Chinese restaurant. If you don't like what they serve then eat elsewhere and stop the whining.

For me - i love apple dim sim! Yay!

 

[GamecockMac]

Threads like this amaze me as they reveal the growing cast of Apple-haters and Fandroids who spend part of every day trolling these forums. What do these sad individuals get out of wasting their time this way? Do they honestly think they are going to change minds with their bitterness and bile directed towards Apple, their products and their CEO? If I had a dollar for every time I read one of these mouth-breathers write "I'm never owning another Apple/iDevice ever again" I'd be able to pay my mortgage for a month or two. Okay, you hate Apple and are never ever spending another cent on their products or services. Good for you...NOW GO AWAY. Seriously, why are you even here? There's no need for you to be posting your tired rants and diatribes on a forum dedicated to something you aren't going to use and can't stand. It's simply not something an intelligent person would spend their free time doing.

 

[TuffLuffJimmy]

I can think of a good reason.

Apple does not want to support any issues related to Flash on the iPhone including privacy, stability, security, and efficiency. They also wish to promote web standards over proprietary solutions controlled by a single company for web content. They don't want to support both options because it will slow down the adoption of the emerging standards.

You have seen these reasons before, and they are good reasons. Even if you don't agree with them.

Flash Player 10.1 is the most significant release of Flash Player since it introduced video. Do you really think it would include all of the current improvements if Apple didn't refuse to include previous versions (and Lite versions) in the iPhone?

I've been blocking Flash longer than I've had a Mac. Basically, since I found out about LSOs (Flash supercookies) that ignored my browsers security and privacy settings and were maintained indefinitely. And that Flash maintains a global list of websites that you have visited that use Flash. And that the way that Adobe expects you to control this list is through a random website that is not accessible through the Flash Player. As of 10.0, the situation is still the same.

I'm sorry. I forgot Apple doesn't support Flash on OS X.
Believe me, Apple's own software has its share of issues, yet they support it. There are all sorts of security threats with the software they choose to support (administration clients, anyone?). The decision to not support Flash on the iPhone is entirely political.

Threads like this amaze me as they reveal the growing cast of Apple-haters and Fandroids who spend part of every day trolling these forums. What do these sad individuals get out of wasting their time this way? Do they honestly think they are going to change minds with their bitterness and bile directed towards Apple, their products and their CEO? If I had a dollar for every time I read one of these mouth-breathers write "I'm never owning another Apple/iDevice ever again" I'd be able to pay my mortgage for a month or two. Okay, you hate Apple and are never ever spending another cent on their products or services. Good for you...NOW GO AWAY. Seriously, why are you even here? There's no need for you to be posting your tired rants and diatribes on a forum dedicated to something you aren't going to use and can't stand. It's simply not something an intelligent person would spend their free time doing.

You seem to be equating a dislike for Apple's arbitrary decision making with hating Apple with a fiery passion. This forum would be boring anyway if everyone agreed.

 

[Chwisch87]

Apple does not want to support any issues related to Flash on the iPhone including privacy, stability, security, and efficiency. They also wish to promote web standards over proprietary solutions controlled by a single company for web content. They don't want to support both options because it will slow down the adoption of the emerging standards.

OMG how noble of apple ... trying to speed up the adoption of emerging standards.

OMG thank you Steve Jobs.

I guess Apple/Steve Jobs has a different definition of open.. last i checked, being open means you don't exclude things and you give your customers choice lol.

 

[TuffLuffJimmy]

OMG how noble of apple ... trying to speed up the adoption of emerging standards.

OMG thank you Steve Jobs.

I guess Apple/Steve Jobs has a different definition of open.. last i checked, being open means you don't exclude things and you give your customers choice lol.

Thank god we as users aren't allowed to pick which technologies we wish to support! Thanks a million for making all my decisions for me, Apple!

PS: thanks for forcing developers to only use your tools for application building and your hand picked standards for web design. It gives me a warm fuzzy feeling to know no one really has a choice in this game.

 

[GamecockMac]

You seem to be equating a dislike for Apple's arbitrary decision making with hating Apple with a fiery passion. This forum would be boring anyway if everyone agreed.

Thanks for self-identifying as a member of the group I was describing.

 

[TuffLuffJimmy]

Thanks for self-identifying as a member of the group I was describing.

I honestly don't care. I've spent my entire life on the Mac platform, I own an iPhone and have owned more iPods than I care to admit. I don't hate Apple, or Steve Jobs, but I do strongly disagree with many decisions the company has made.

 

[macsmurf]

Threads like this amaze me as they reveal the growing cast of Apple-haters and Fandroids who spend part of every day trolling these forums. What do these sad individuals get out of wasting their time this way? Do they honestly think they are going to change minds with their bitterness and bile directed towards Apple, their products and their CEO? If I had a dollar for every time I read one of these mouth-breathers write "I'm never owning another Apple/iDevice ever again" I'd be able to pay my mortgage for a month or two. Okay, you hate Apple and are never ever spending another cent on their products or services. Good for you...NOW GO AWAY. Seriously, why are you even here? There's no need for you to be posting your tired rants and diatribes on a forum dedicated to something you aren't going to use and can't stand. It's simply not something an intelligent person would spend their free time doing.

As clear a case of projection as one can make.

I still find it fascinating that a company/CEO can have such a dedicated fan base who defend every move the company makes. They make neat devices but still?

Unfortunately, that attitude apparently rots the brain and I guess most of the sane ones has left already. In that vein, I agree that "It's simply not something an intelligent person would spend their free time doing". On the other hand, some people watch TV. Some people surf. Neither is necessarily particularly intellectually stimulating.

Anyway, I know this will be ignored but most of the critique I see is from people, who like Apple's product and would like the company to succeed in the future. They just don't agree with some of Jobs' decisions and justifications. That isn't hate. Granted, it's not unconditional love either, but what eventually will push Apple to make better products is customer faithlessness and competition, not puppy love. At least, that's what has motivated them in the past, it seems.

 

[rhett7660]

The whole "I want a choice" argument is rubbish...

YOU AND I have a choice - it is my choice that i don't want a choice and i don't want flash that is why i buy an iPhone or iPad. That is my choice. If you don't like it stop whining and don't buy it.

It is like going into a Chinese restaurant and demanding "I demand hamburgers and fries - freedom of choice' - No! You already made a choice by walking into the Chinese restaurant. If you don't like what they serve then eat elsewhere and stop the whining.

For me - i love apple dim sim! Yay!

No is not rubbish. I want an iPhone, I have an iPhone and I would like to be able, if I want to view flash able to view flash. Plain and simple. Nothing more nothing less. I have yet to whine about it. I was merely stating an opinion. Far from whining thank you.

And Dim Sum is freaking crap IMHO.....

 

[Anijake]

No is not rubbish. I want an iPhone, I have an iPhone and I would like to be able, if I want to view flash able to view flash. Plain and simple. Nothing more nothing less. I have yet to whine about it. I was merely stating an opinion. Far from whining thank you.

And Dim Sum is freaking crap IMHO.....

But the iPhone never had flash, so when you made your choice to get the iPhone you knew you would not have Flash. Yeah maybe you hoped that in the future it would, but Apple never said that.

Who knows maybe one day Adobe will hit it out of the park and Steve will say "They got it right" and allow it.

 

[DarkKnightNine]

What?! You mean SJ was right?!

I guess this gives some credence to what Steve Jobs was saying all along, that Flash will degrade the user experience on a mobile device. It's bad enough on a desktop PC, so what would make anyone think that Flash would be a viable solution on a mobile platform is beyond comprehension. Flash has served it's purpose but it's time to look toward the future. It's like people still trying to hang on to VHS when digital content required a better distribution format like DVD.

 

[Jookbox]

I'm more intrigued with the google phone now that we have the OPTION of viewing flash.

It's amazing how many of you people can't understand that concept.

 

[KnightWRX]

I guess this gives some credence to what Steve Jobs was saying all along, that Flash will degrade the user experience on a mobile device. It's bad enough on a desktop PC, so what would make anyone think that Flash would be a viable solution on a mobile platform is beyond comprehension. Flash has served it's purpose but it's time to look toward the future. It's like people still trying to hang on to VHS when digital content required a better distribution format like DVD.

Except nothing yet replaces Flash in its entirety. HTML5 ? Missing a lot of elements still. No, video and Canvas aren't enough on their own.

Your analogy fails in that DVD replaced VHS and no one blocked VHS for those who needed to record stuff before the recordable DVDs shipped. We don't have anything that fully replaces Flash yet.

 

[macsmurf]

But the iPhone never had flash, so when you made your choice to get the iPhone you knew you would not have Flash. Yeah maybe you hoped that in the future it would, but Apple never said that.

Actually, according to Walt Mossberg, they did.