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Web Browsing Performance on Android 2.2 Hampered by Flash Compatibility

Anyone can use Flash right now on an iDevice. I am testing Cloud Browse on my iPod Touch right now. It does load Flash, but it is seriously slow. I am looking at slideshowpro.net. I have used their Flash slideshow program for all of my slideshows, but on their site it plays really slow and after five slides it is stuck (that could be a Cloud browse issue though) I have switched all of my Slideshow Pro slideshows to a javascript program called SlideShow2 that uses Mootools. All of my slideshows play smoothy and have no issues on my iPod, none. The switch was super easy. I am not even using html5 to do it, there are plenty of tools to do this in html4 with Ajax and javascript right now. I previewed a page that uses CSS3 only to animate and have interactive content. It was beautiful in Chrome and Safari, no support yet in Firefox. It isn't that far away, insisting on Flash for mobile is, well kind of nuts, especially when I see how god awful a simple Flash slide show plays on my iPod Touch and how smoothly one will work with javascript.

As a web designer, I should be screaming the loudest about the inconvenience, for most of you, the issue is not being able to see the content, I on the other hand have to spend hours and hours learning the new code and the fallbacks that are needed right now until more browsers are able to use the alternatives to Flash. But luckily, I never relied too heavy on Flash, it was horrible from the get go, and it was crazy (and lazy) for people to put whole websites in that beast. But also lucky for me, I got paid from a bunch of business to get their sites out of Flash (and into proper html and CSS), this was long before Steve Jobs even introduced the iPhone, it was mostly because of accessibility issues and search engine issues and the fact that making sure everyone had the right Flash player to even see the site was ridiculous. Content viewing being dependent on the Flash Player is not an appropriate technique for the web, never was, nor will it be. And the war is over anyway, no web designer who wants to keep clients will limit themselves to only using Flash. To quote Kosh from Babylon5, "the avalanche has started, too late for the pebbles to vote"

ALSO, more good reasons to just move on from Flash are below:

iphoneguy2 said:
What have we learned here!!!
1.Turning Flash off makes the device run faster and more responsive.
2. Battery life will be greatly reduced even running flash on WiFi.
3. Given items #1 and #2 most Andriod people will disable flash when not needed.
4. Iphone users will not have a choice to enable flash. They could use "cloudbrowse however slow.


What was not mentioned here???
1. Flash is a major securrity hole with endless bloated in size security patches that adobe has not shown in the past it can ever fix

2. Most Virus and Trojans today are delivered to computers using flash.

3. Most Adult and Download sites are loaded with flash based spyware, adware and trojans.

4> Android Users will have a choice to get hacked:rolleyes:

5. Flash still crashes my Windows 7 64bit machine with 4Gig of Ram.

6. This test was using an 11 month old Iphone 4.0 beta OS with much slower processor.

So I score this TEST
Steve Jobs 1
Android using Flash 0

OK Adobe your best is still not good enough!!!
Click to expand...
 
rhett7660 said:
No is not rubbish. I want an iPhone, I have an iPhone and I would like to be able, if I want to view flash able to view flash. Plain and simple. Nothing more nothing less. I have yet to whine about it. I was merely stating an opinion. Far from whining thank you.

And Dim Sum is freaking crap IMHO..... ;)
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Wanting to have the choice of running mediocre software on a platform from a company that prides itself on excellent UX IS rubbish.

People eat garbage food all the time. Going into a quality restaurant though and asking for a double mc IS rubbish.
 
Compile 'em all said:
Wanting to have the choice of running mediocre software on a platform from a company that prides itself on excellent UX IS rubbish.

People eat garbage food all the time. Going into a quality restaurant though and asking for a double mc IS rubbish.
Click to expand...

Restaurants don't claim they offer access to "juicy steaks" for you to find out your plate is filled with Tofu based substitutes because the joint's owner thinks there's too much fat in red meat.
 
macsmurf said:
Yes, that was what I was trying to convey with "according to Walt Mossberg".
Click to expand...

Well there you go, blame Walt.

Everyone that bought an iPhone hoped it would get Flash but Apple never said it would. But 2-3 weeks ago they said it will never. Now anyone who buys now knows what to expect.
 
So sick of hearing about choice!

It infuriates me to hear people whine on & on & on into oblivion about "choice" and how Apple has somehow denied them their "choice". You're just an idiot buying into the Adobe propaganda machine. You DO have a choice, buy a different phone. Nobody has forced you to buy an iPhone, iPad or a Mac. Or better yet, invest your millions in R&D and built a phone or PC with the OS to your liking. Let's see if you can come up with better "choices" than Apple. I'm willing to bet your new "choice" phone or PC will perform like dog **** in comparison.

Yes Flash is everywhere on the web but that does means that it's a good thing. Hell flies are everywhere in Egypt but they're just annoying pests. Flash is good for one thing and that's making Adobe a lot of money, but it doesn't add any value to my user experience. I "chose" to go with Apple products because they "chose" to provide the user experience I want. Flash is like a cancer that is spreading over the web and you people out there yelling about choice are helping it spread. I wish I could surgically remove all Flash from the web but since I can't, at least I have the choice of buying a platform that is not affected by it. Apple is providing a choice. An alternative to everyone else out there who will be supporting Flash on their devices. A choice for those of us who want something different from our mobile device or PC that is not hampered by a resource hungry dated technology that provides no real value. If you disagree with that, then go buy a PC, Android, Windows Mobile 7 or whatever. That's your choice.
 
gigi1701 said:
ALSO, more good reasons to just move on from Flash are below:
Click to expand...

Actually all of those points are lies other than maybe 5 ( I can't verify). 6 is irrelevant because we have seen Nexus 1 vs. iPad benchmarks and the Nexus 1 beats the iPad. So it's pretty unlikely that Apple will be able to take this cake this round with their phone, since it will more than likely be less powerful than the iPad.


DarkKnightNine said:
It infuriates me to hear people whine on & on & on into oblivion about "choice" and how Apple has somehow denied them their "choice". You're just an idiot buying into the Adobe propaganda machine. You DO have a choice, buy a different phone. Nobody has forced you to buy an iPhone, iPad or a Mac. Or better yet, invest your millions in R&D and built a phone or PC with the OS to your liking. Let's see if you can come up with better "choices" than Apple. I'm willing to bet your new "choice" phone or PC will perform like dog **** in comparison.

Yes Flash is everywhere on the web but that does means that it's a good thing. Hell flies are everywhere in Egypt but they're just annoying pests. Flash is good for one thing and that's making Adobe a lot of money, but it doesn't add any value to my user experience. I "chose" to go with Apple products because they "chose" to provide the user experience I want. Flash is like a cancer that is spreading over the web and you people out there yelling about choice are helping it spread. I wish I could surgically remove all Flash from the web but since I can't, at least I have the choice of buying a platform that is not affected by it. Apple is providing a choice. An alternative to everyone else out there who will be supporting Flash on their devices. A choice for those of us who want something different from our mobile device or PC that is not hampered by a resource hungry dated technology that provides no real value. If you disagree with that, then go buy a PC, Android, Windows Mobile 7 or whatever. That's your choice.
Click to expand...
Let's keep this conversation mature. No need to get your undies in bunches.
 
TuffLuffJimmy said:
I'm sorry. I forgot Apple doesn't support Flash on OS X. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

What does that have to do with what I said? You asked for a good reason. I gave you a good reason.

Believe me, Apple's own software has its share of issues, yet they support it. There are all sorts of security threats with the software they choose to support (administration clients, anyone?).
Click to expand...

That's some crazy logic. Because they have bugs in their software, they shouldn't care about bugs in other software regardless of their impact???

The decision to not support Flash on the iPhone is entirely political.
Click to expand...

Most likely, it is a mixture of technical, political, philosophical and economic issues.

Chwisch87 said:
OMG how noble of apple ... trying to speed up the adoption of emerging standards.

OMG thank you Steve Jobs.
Click to expand...

Who said anything about noble? Promoting standards over proprietary solutions outside of their control is in Apple's best interest. It's also probably in most people's best interest in the long run.

I guess Apple/Steve Jobs has a different definition of open.. last i checked, being open means you don't exclude things and you give your customers choice lol.
Click to expand...

You seem to be confusing the different uses of the word "open". Jobs never claimed that Apple is open.
 
Compile 'em all said:
Wanting to have the choice of running mediocre software on a platform from a company that prides itself on excellent UX IS rubbish.

People eat garbage food all the time. Going into a quality restaurant though and asking for a double mc IS rubbish.
Click to expand...

Well, just because it is rubbish, that doesn't mean I don't want to view what it has to offer. There is still a lot of sites out there with flash.

I have had the iPhone since version one. I know the short comings. I have lived with them. I will keep living with them, that doesn't mean I don't want more.

I hope Adobe with the help of Apple pull it together and offers a piece of software that is nice and plays well with ALL Apple products.
 
Competing Tech...

KnightWRX said:
Except nothing yet replaces Flash in its entirety. HTML5 ? Missing a lot of elements still. No, video and Canvas aren't enough on their own.

Your analogy fails in that DVD replaced VHS and no one blocked VHS for those who needed to record stuff before the recordable DVDs shipped. We don't have anything that fully replaces Flash yet.
Click to expand...

And we never will unless someone takes the stand that Apple has. I applaud them having the balls to stand alone in this fight to push newer and arguably better technology. Flash has been a cancerous cell allowed to flourish for far too long. The whole internet needs a push a another direction, otherwise the cancer will continue to grow until there will be no other competing technologies. I wonder what all of these people yelling about choice will think of Flash if that ever happened. Imagine an internet where everything depends on Flash. I'm sure Adobe would be happy and that's what they're pushing for. Adobe's only argument for Flash is that it's everywhere so it must be good.

NOT!

So your argument makes even less sense to me. Allow Flash to get even more of a stranglehold on the internet so that developing technologies like HTML5 will never have a fighting chance. Adobe is playing from the book of Sun Tzu; keep your friends close, but keep your enemies closer. Yes they appear to be interested in HTML5 but if they have a chance, they would kill it off in a heartbeat. They want Flash everywhere and this ridiculous media storm about Apple not allowing it on their devices just shows their intentions. There are plenty of other devices and platforms out there in full support of Adobe's Flash so why should they care about Apple? The answer is simple, they want Flash everywhere! Period! They don't care about you, me or choice. That certainly doesn't sound like a push for open standards to me. That sounds like a push for a propriety format on every single device they can get their greedy little hands on. Those people yelling about choice are just pawns who are too stupid to realized they are being used to help Adobe gain even more control over their user experience.
 
Its not just flash that is the issue at heart here.

Google ripped in the iPhone and the iPhone OS at the i/o conference. And nearly universally, the internet as said its was right. And quite frankly, Steve Jobs started that war when he said back at the iPhone OS 4.0 unveiling that google's "do no evil" was BS. It has also managed to burn bridges with every carrier in the United States too. Meaning in reality, the iPhone is stuck on at&t. Which is not a good thing.

From marketing standpoint, apple has not really answered "droid does". We all accepted the iphone 3g and maybe the 3GS because there was no other better phone. Android is just starting to run with device after device and apple cannot keep up and all the primary criticism of the iPhone are a product of Apples own creation. Android now has phones that do everyone the iPhone does and will do and more. Apple cannot sue their way out of this. The ridiculous app approve process and the rejection of certain apps on a condition of how ever apple chooses. Treating developers like they don't matter and treating the consumer like they are renting the hardware and now owning will come to the end the iPhone as a major player in the market until apple changes its tune. Which it will or Steve Jobs will be forced out again.

The Major test for android is how the incredible and the Evo 4g do against iPhone 4 this summer. Expect big marketing campaigns.
 
Hal Itosis said:
Yeah... ads. :mad:
Shame on Apple, being late to the game (as usual):

Adobe
:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

So I guess you missed the part where Apple just introduced a new API framework for advertising in apps. Believe me, Apple is not protecting you from ads. They're keeping other companies from making money on their phone.

As for adobe monitoring software use that's nothing when compared to Google tracking your email message content, location on GPS, search data, documents, instant messaging conversations, browser data, etc.
 
Not even a fair review of it. The 2.2 that leaked out wasn't supposed to be sent out and isn't final. Also Flash is optional.

Flash on the Desire and Incredible is fine.
 
sideline3 said:
Not even a fair review of it. The 2.2 that leaked out wasn't supposed to be sent out and isn't final. Also Flash is optional.
Click to expand...

You can't justify bad performance of a product by saying it is "optional". That is not how you develop anything decent really.

If flash was a quality piece of software, you would have found it on the iPhone from day one.
 
DarkKnightNine said:
And we never will unless someone takes the stand that Apple has.
Click to expand...

This is wrong. The rest of your post follows in this same trend and hence is wrong.

DVD got adopted. No one blocked VHS in the early stages and it still didn't threaten DVD adoption. You can include both HTML5 and Flash while you're working on making HTML5 better. People will normally migrate as HTML5 starts doing what they need it to do.

Following your line of thinking, CSS 1.0/2.0/3.0 should have never seen light of day. To this day, I can still put in FONT tags all over my web pages and it works like it should. CSS is better though and I will use it.

Let the tech get adopted based on its merits, not the whims of some companies that want to push it on us (which incidently is why Flash is so popular. Back in 2000, it was the only way to push vector graphic animations with some scripting into a browser. MS never adopted the W3C backed SVG and still don't to this day, which is huge hurdle in replacing Flash).

BaldiMac said:
Most likely, it is a mixture of technical, political, philosophical and economic issues.
Click to expand...

No, it's not technical. They modified the dev license agreement right before Adobe shipped a release of the Flash-to-iPhone compiler. Adobe had it working. Apple even approved some apps made with the Beta code Adobe released. It worked. It still does in fact.

There was no technical reason for the change to the Dev license agreement. It was all a big game to retain control.

GamecockMac said:
Motorcyclists in the state I live in have the OPTION of riding without helmets. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

And that's how it should be. Let those who ride decide. The state should never try to replace your mother and as a citizen, you shouldn't accept that it does. Protection you from yourself is your own job, not some bureaucrats. Same for technology and corporations. They limit your options for their own good, you should not let them.
 
KnightWRX said:
No, it's not technical. They modified the dev license agreement right before Adobe shipped a release of the Flash-to-iPhone compiler. Adobe had it working. Apple even approved some apps made with the Beta code Adobe released. It worked. It still does in fact.

There was no technical reason for the change to the Dev license agreement. It was all a big game to retain control.
Click to expand...

While all that may be true, we were talking about the Flash Player in this thread. And there are technical reasons for not including it, whether or not you or I agree with them.
 
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