Typical fandroid answer: I don't want/need Flash having it disabled with click2flash well before SJ said what I already knew. Flash is crapware
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Web Browsing Performance on Android 2.2 Hampered by Flash Compatibility
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Typical fandroid answer: I don't want/need Flash having it disabled with click2flash well before SJ said what I already knew. Flash is crapware
what are the reasons? the mobile version of flash is custom coded to take advantage of the ARM CPU which are in every mobile device. it's not like the desktop version where they have to account for 3-4 OS's, multiple CPU generations and 5 different browsers each one with multiple versions that do the same thing very differently
+1
Adobe inherited Flash when they bought Macromedia a few years ago. At the time, there was barely a Flashlite available.
I give Adobe credit for putting in the years of effort to create a full featured mobile version.
It takes time to port and do a decent job. Just look at Apple's Windows versions of iTunes and Safari to see how hard it is to port a major application that doesn't crash.
Don't bother, he'll just say "Battery life", ignoring all the while that OpenGL ES, Quartz are both battery hogs too, because let's face it, anything that does animated graphics is going to be a major battery hog on these devices.
Getting tiresome. There is no Flash player for iPhone. There is one for Android though. So much for openess.
Not to mention for User experience, Apple did a good job botching iTunes/Safari on Windows and made it very inconsistent with the OS'es GUI. Apple is about user experience only when it suits them. When it doesn't, they don't give a crap.
This email exchange with Jobs has been picked up by papers:
It's more bad press, especially from Cupertino's hometown daily paper.
First two lines are headline and subhead from the paper edition, third line is online headline.
Flash Player does have efficiency, stability, security, and privacy issues. As I said two posts above yours.
Don't bother, he'll just say "Battery life", ignoring all the while that OpenGL ES, Quartz are both battery hogs too, because let's face it, anything that does animated graphics is going to be a major battery hog on these devices.
Please don't try and speak for me. Battery life is just one technical issue among many. One that you continually miss the point on.
I was thinking of the Flash to ARM compiler that Adobe released for iPhone OS. I don't think it has been demonstrated that these issues are more of a concern with this product than with any other.
Efficiency and stability are concerns for all software. I'm not aware of the privacy and security issues when it comes to mobile flash. In any case, Flash shouldn't really be allowed to crash the browser or access anything outside the sandbox. If this is possible, Flash is not the only product to blame.
Yes, I'm missing the point because I'm pointing out the hypocrisy of Apple, touting Battery life on the one hand and then pushing for more and more complex games that drain the battery like no tomorrow.
The only one missing the point here has Bald and Mac in his name.
Yes, I'm missing the point because I'm pointing out the hypocrisy of Apple, touting Battery life on the one hand and then pushing for more and more complex games that drain the battery like no tomorrow.
The only one missing the point here has Bald and Mac in his name.
no, you are the one missing the point, but it is on purpose , as usual ...
Draining battery for a 3D rich game is accettable. Draining battery for an ads Flash video is ridiculous ...
Hi, Aiden.
Why is that? Why do you need to tinker with it? If you bought it for its intended purpose, why should you have to tinker with it? It sounds like you're buying products intended for one purpose (or Windows, intended for no purpose<wry grin>) and wanting it to perform some other function which it isn't designed to perform.
Why should those of us who buy the products for their intended purpose suffer user experience because you want to tinker with it?
I'm not saying this is you, but I've heard this argument over and over and when pressed, people can't tell me what they really want to do with it, that it's actually the mere thought they would be *prevented* (oh, the audacity of Apple to not allow me to do something I may want to do in the future because I am technical and must therefore take apart the watch<giggle>) from tinkering in some way that actually gets them all steamed.
To you and them, I say, buy another product and leave these wonderful devices to those of us who appreciate them the way they are.
Why is that? Why do you need to tinker with it? If you bought it for its intended purpose, why should you have to tinker with it? It sounds like you're buying products intended for one purpose (or Windows, intended for no purpose<wry grin>) and wanting it to perform some other function which it isn't designed to perform.
Why should those of us who buy the products for their intended purpose suffer user experience because you want to tinker with it?
I'm not saying this is you, but I've heard this argument over and over and when pressed, people can't tell me what they really want to do with it, that it's actually the mere thought they would be *prevented* (oh, the audacity of Apple to not allow me to do something I may want to do in the future because I am technical and must therefore take apart the watch<giggle>) from tinkering in some way that actually gets them all steamed.
To you and them, I say, buy another product and leave these wonderful devices to those of us who appreciate them the way they are.
Who said anything about tinkering? And who are you to say what a computer is designed to do? They're pretty damn good at generalization.
How is the option to install flash somehow breaking your user experience? How is installing Flash even considered tinkering? That's a luddite perspective I wouldn't expect to find on an online forum.
Dismantling the hardware and software have nothing to do with this thread. I think you are very confused.
Really? Did you really just suggest that because you're not inclined to tinker (as you put it) then those who are should stay away from using the same phone as you? Why don't you switch to a nokia from 2005? I'm sure you'll feel more comfortable with that, it's much simpler than the iPhone.
Yes, I'm missing the point because I'm pointing out the hypocrisy of Apple, touting Battery life on the one hand and then pushing for more and more complex games that drain the battery like no tomorrow.
There is no hypocrisy in Apple's claims, only in the claims that you are making up as a strawman. Apple's only claim about Flash and battery life was that software decoded video is much less efficient that hardware decoded video. That's it. No one should argue with this statement.
Here is the link. Read Apple's claims about battery life.
http://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughts-on-flash/
That is what we were talking about (look at the comment).
I'm me, you're offensive, but to answer your question, the manufacturer of the device certainly has a say here.
Do you really want to discuss this. This forum has 1000s of posts on this subject. If you really want to know my opinion I'll give it, but I don't get the impression you're asking questions to converse, but actually are attacking me with each '?' you write.
And now we resort to name calling, nice.
And another one. Again, nice.
Why don't I switch to a Nokia from 2005? Hmmm. Well, the reason is because I have an iPhone and I'm extremely happy with it, more than I have ever been happy with a phone, including all the Nokia phones I've owned (and been satisfied with).
Your offensive comments are really annoying and progress the conversation not one bit. If you do decide to start being civil with me, perhaps we can continue this conversation then. Until then,
Another person for ignore. There are numerous ways to deal with Flash adverts without disabling Flash altogether. Opera already simply loads the Flash control but doesn't let it play until you click it. Or something like click2flash replaces the Flash control with an image of it's own so the whole thing isn't even loaded until you click.
Why does Steve Jobs think that the only way to deal with Flash is not to allow it at all?
I couldn't care less about your ignore list ...
BTW for what reason should I waste my time in enabling/disabling Flash content ? It is far better to NOT HAVE FLASH AT ALL, as on my iPod/iPhone/iPad ...
I have to have Click2Flash on my Macs, but it's a matter of time: Flash is going to die, soon or later ...
Because Adobe has had years to optimize Flash for mobile devices, and decided to drag their feet until Apple essentially got fed up with their battery/resource hog and told the world they were moving on without it.
If Adobe hadn't let Flash stagnate to the degree they did, maybe Steve Jobs would have felt differently about it, but I don't blame him one bit for not wanting to let another company's product hamstring any of his products.
Yeah, how selfish of Apple not to let Adobe control development of AppStore apps.
Wait... whaat???
All of which jibes perfectly with... Ex-Adobe engineers: We raised red flags that went unheeded; Adobe closed mobile department in ‘07
Carlos Icaza and Walter Luh, former Adobe mobile engineers, said they were raising flags at Adobe in 2007 about the same complaints that Jobs detailed Thursday.
“Walter and I, being the lead architects for Flash Lite, we were seeing the iPhone touch devices coming out, and we kept saying ‘Hey, this is coming along,’” Icaza said in a phone interview. “You have this white elephant that everybody ignored. Half the [Adobe] mobile business unit was carrying iPhones, and yet the management team wasn’t doing anything about it.”
They said they left Adobe because executives did not take the iPhone seriously when Apple announced the touchscreen device in 2007. Instead, Adobe focused on feature phones (cellphones with lightweight web features, not smartphones) and invested in development of Flash Lite to play Flash videos on such devices. Subsequently, Adobe shut down the mobile business unit in 2007, and has suffered from a brain drain in the mobility space ever since, Icaza and Luh said.
“Walter and I, being the lead architects for Flash Lite, we were seeing the iPhone touch devices coming out, and we kept saying ‘Hey, this is coming along,’” Icaza said in a phone interview. “You have this white elephant that everybody ignored. Half the [Adobe] mobile business unit was carrying iPhones, and yet the management team wasn’t doing anything about it.”
They said they left Adobe because executives did not take the iPhone seriously when Apple announced the touchscreen device in 2007. Instead, Adobe focused on feature phones (cellphones with lightweight web features, not smartphones) and invested in development of Flash Lite to play Flash videos on such devices. Subsequently, Adobe shut down the mobile business unit in 2007, and has suffered from a brain drain in the mobility space ever since, Icaza and Luh said.
And...
Hacker News (forum comments)
I find it quite sad to watch Adobe losing the last vestiges of its hacker roots (Geschke and Warnock were great engineers) and its high-quality graphics roots, as it becomes The Flash Company. (Especially since I knew Geschke a bit back at their start-up time. Was almost the 9th employee. ;-)
This seems to tie in with the recent discussion about how much more personal information is captured by your Flash plugin and how very much more persistent it is (relative to the data captured in ordinary cookies).
This seems to tie in with the recent discussion about how much more personal information is captured by your Flash plugin and how very much more persistent it is (relative to the data captured in ordinary cookies).
I.e., much of the focus with Flash of late has been geared towards developing its monetizing performance abilities.
Oh really? I must have missed the 1Ghz processors on phones back in 1999. Yeah that's too much incompetence. It's not like powerful smart phones have been a recent phenomenon or anything like that. And it's not like Adobe even tried to optimize it for another smart phone platform in 2010.
Draining the battery for whatever it is I want to drain it for is acceptable. HTML5 ads will drain your battery like Flash will.
Flash isn't just ads either. Flash games would be an acceptable drain. Just don't enable the plugin on pages where there's just ads. That's why you can selectively enable the plugin.
Better yet, since on Android Flash 10.1 is a download from the Market, just don't download it on your phone is you want it. What a novel concept, choice left to the user on how he wants his "user experience".
Again, I'm not the one missing the point on the battery thing. It's hypocritical as far as reasons go. Tons of crap drains the battery on iPhone OS devices. It's just when it comes to make up excuses for Flash that it matters.
It's up to Apple to give devs access to the hardware video decoder. Funny when they actually released an API to do it on OS X, Adobe implemented it right away...
That should tell you something RE: Hypocrisy.
Again, read Apple's claims and stop putting words in their mouth. Jobs specifically referred to older (non H.264) Flash video that cannot be hardware decoded.
LOL. Are you at all aware what the biggest vector for security compromises on the Mac is?
It's Quick Time, by a wide, wide margin.
Yep - old Flash video matters for the modern web - especially when they disallow Flash and do not provide alternative to play the huge amount of old Flash video. Good deal of logic going on here.
Thanks for convincing me you are so out of touch. Don't you run MenuMeters (or iStat), or have some sort of "tachometer" tool monitoring CPU load? I mean... if your hearing can't detect the fans spinning faster, at least glance up to see the percentage readout or the graph going higher. Oh but wait... the video isn't even playing yet. It just a (poorly written) banner in a background tab, selfishly demanding attention.
Yeah, tell me more how Flash is the epitome of efficiency.
lol... i got eyes and ears, and your credibility just flatlined.
I was not aware of that, nor do I care. It has nothing to do with this conversation.
That would be a good reason to allow Flash. Not what we were discussing though.
H.264 Already WonMakes Up 66 Percent Of Web Videos
BTW, ever try ClickToFlash? I run it constantly on my MBP.
[once that kicks in... even a G4 feels like a C2D browsing.]