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Web Browsing Performance on Android 2.2 Hampered by Flash Compatibility

Hal Itosis said:
H.264 Already Won—Makes Up 66 Percent Of Web Videos

BTW, ever try ClickToFlash? I run it constantly on my MBP.
[once that kicks in... even a G4 feels like a C2D browsing.]
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Thanks for the URL - but if you read the original context of that conversation - which is that Jobs disallowed Flash because non-H264 video cannot be hardware accelerated - I was being sarcastic when I said non-H264 video matters on the modern web and is a good reason to disallow Flash.
 
BaldiMac said:
I was not aware of that, nor do I care. It has nothing to do with this conversation.
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Weren't repeating Jobs' BS that Flash is a high security risk?

If so, then it has everything to do with the conversation. Flash security is NOT a serious issue. Jobs is spreading FUD to deflect attention from the fact that everyone else has, or will have Flash on mobiles soon, except for the iPhone.
 
macUser2007 said:
Weren't repeating Jobs' BS that Flash is a high security risk?

If so, then it has everything to do with the conversation. Flash security is NOT a serious issue. Jobs is spreading FUD to deflect attention from the fact that everyone else has, or will have Flash on mobiles soon, except for the iPhone.
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Flash security is a serious issue, and it has nothing to do with Steve Jobs.

http://www.tuaw.com/2010/03/02/browser-security-the-main-thing-is-not-to-install-flash/

My primary security concern with Flash (and why I disable it) is privacy related and by design. Flash creates LSOs (or supercookies) that ignore your browsers security and privacy settings. It also maintains a list of any websites that you visit that contain Flash.

If it is related to Steve Jobs, then his RDF has some sort of time dilation, because my opinion pre-dates my ownership of a Mac and the existence of the iPhone.
 
Hal Itosis said:
...It just a (poorly written) banner in a background tab, selfishly demanding attention.

Yeah, tell me more how Flash is the epitome of efficiency.
lol... i got eyes and ears, and your credibility just flatlined.
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How is this any different from poorly written HTML5 banner, or poorly written anything else?
 
BaldiMac said:
Flash security is a serious issue, and it has nothing to do with Steve Jobs.

http://www.tuaw.com/2010/03/02/browser-security-the-main-thing-is-not-to-install-flash/

My primary security concern with Flash (and why I disable it) is privacy related and by design. Flash creates LSOs (or supercookies) that ignore your browsers security and privacy settings. It also maintains a list of any websites that you visit that contain Flash.

If it is related to Steve Jobs, then his RDF has some sort of time dilation, because my opinion pre-dates my ownership of a Mac and the existence of the iPhone.
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Looks like he strayed away from his talking points and got confused.
 
macUser2007 said:
How is this any different from poorly written HTML5 banner, or poorly written anything else?
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With HTML5, Apple could implement safeguards in Mobile Safari that would limit the affects of a poorly written whatever. With Flash, they are relying on Adobe to do that.
 
BaldiMac said:
...

My primary security concern with Flash (and why I disable it) is privacy related and by design. Flash creates LSOs (or supercookies) that ignore your browsers security and privacy settings. It also maintains a list of any websites that you visit that contain Flash.
...
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LOL, so you are listening to Apple's FUD about Flash.

Cookies are fine for most people, and often useful - most people never clear them. Cookies are used by both HTML sites and Flash sites. The main difference is where they are stored.

If you use a good browser like Chrome, you can use Clear Browsing Data, which has an option for Adobe Flash Player storage settings, where you can clear your Flash cookies easily.

Or if you are paranoid, use something like the Better Privacy add-on for Firefox.

Or, just go to http://www.macromedia.com/support/documentation/en/flashplayer/help/settings_manager07.html and clear all your Flash cookies with one click.
 
Compile 'em all said:
You can't justify bad performance of a product by saying it is "optional". That is not how you develop anything decent really.

If flash was a quality piece of software, you would have found it on the iPhone from day one.
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You missed my entire sentence about the FroYo people are using is a LEAKED version that isn't complete. Hence why Google pulled the downloads for it.It was a test version. Like I said on the Desire/Incredible Flash is fine and so is the browsing.
 
macUser2007 said:
LOL, so you are listening to Apple's FUD about Flash.
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Where has Apple said anything about Flash LSOs? And why would you ignore my statement that I've had the same problem with Flash since before I had a Mac.

Cookies are fine for most people, and often useful - most people never clear them. Cookies are used by both HTML sites and Flash sites.
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That's fine. I disable cookies and use a whitelist for sites that I trust. Why does the Flash Player still store cookies? I'd bet you most people think that when they clear their history and their cookies, they think their history and cookies are cleared. But Flash maintains its own cookies and history.

The main difference is where they are stored.
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And how they are controlled. And how long they last. And how much information they contain.

If you use a good browser like Chrome, you can use Clear Browsing Data, which has an option for Adobe Flash Player storage settings, where you can clear your Flash cookies easily.
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That's a great option in Chrome. It's been a problem for a decade before Chrome existed.

Or if you are paranoid, use something like the Better Privacy add-on for Firefox.
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I'm not paranoid, but I do use BetterPrivacy. The fact that there are workarounds for the problems with Flash, do not change the fact that they exist.

Or, just go to http://www.macromedia.com/support/documentation/en/flashplayer/help/settings_manager07.html and clear all your Flash cookies with one click.
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Case and point. What other software requires you to go to a random website that is not discoverable from the interface to adjust your settings? Especially settings related to something as important as privacy.
 
parapup said:
Oh really? I must have missed the 1Ghz processors on phones back in 1999. Yeah that's too much incompetence. It's not like powerful smart phones have been a recent phenomenon or anything like that. And it's not like Adobe even tried to optimize it for another smart phone platform in 2010. :rolleyes:
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So now Flash needs a 1GHz processor to work? That's a new one. When did Adobe inform their shills to start that line of spin? :rolleyes:

And the iPhone was introduced in 2007. If over three years, Adobe couldn't figure out how to implement Flash on a device that changed the way people thought about the smartphone, then they deserve everything they're getting now. No excuse for laziness or incompetence in a business that moves as rapidly as this one.
 
BaldiMac said:
...What other software requires you to go to a random website that is not discoverable from the interface to adjust your settings? Especially settings related to something as important as privacy.
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Seriously, why do you insist on spreading FUD about Flash?

How are Flash cookies any different from information stored in DOM storage?

Can you easily clean DOM Storage in Safari? Nope. But you don't seem upset about it.

At least Adobe provides Flash Player Setting to clean Flash cookies.

You are tracked, my friend, even without Flash.
 
macUser2007 said:
Yeah, it took Apple only 2 years to bring Search and Cut&Paste to the iPhone. Fast Apple is, man, fast....
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Nice deflection, typical trolling tactics. Don't have a good rebuttal for facts when they're presented? Just point somewhere else and hope the facts get lost in the noise.

Didn't seem like the absence of search or cut&paste (both intentional decisions) slowed down iPhone sales any during those two years, and I'm betting (literally, as I'm a shareholder) that the absence of Flash won't slow them down either.
 
macUser2007 said:
Seriously, why do you insist on spreading FUD about Flash?
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What FUD? Everything I said is true.

How are Flash cookies any different from information stored in DOM storage?
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DOM Storage is a preference in Safari, user discoverable, and easily cleared. Regardless, two wrongs don't make a right.

Can you easily clean DOM Storage in Safari? Nope. But you don't seem upset about it.
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Yes. It's on the security tab. It is also cleared when you "Reset Safari..."

At least Adobe provides Flash Player Setting to clean Flash cookies.
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So does Safari.

You are tracked, my friend, even without Flash.
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Yep. Doesn't mean I don't want to be tracked in more ways.
 
GamecockMac said:
So now Flash needs a 1GHz processor to work? That's a new one. When did Adobe inform their shills to start that line of spin? :rolleyes:

And the iPhone was introduced in 2007. If over three years, Adobe couldn't figure out how to implement Flash on a device that changed the way people thought about the smartphone, then they deserve everything they're getting now. No excuse for laziness or incompetence in a business that moves as rapidly as this one.
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Adobe had no help from Apple and Apple continues to refuse to open the platform to them. How were they supposed to get Flash on the iPhone?
 
BaldiMac said:
What FUD? Everything I said is true.



DOM Storage is a preference in Safari, user discoverable, and easily cleared. Regardless, two wrongs don't make a right.



Yes. It's on the security tab. It is also cleared when you "Reset Safari..."



So does Safari.



Yep. Doesn't mean I don't want to be tracked in more ways.
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Then, given the option, don't install Flash. I'm having a hard time seeing anything relevant to the side arguing Apple shouldn't give its users a choice.
 
GamecockMac said:
So now Flash needs a 1GHz processor to work? That's a new one. When did Adobe inform their shills to start that line of spin?
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LOL! Man are you serious? Apple doesn't allow Flash and yet the next generation processor for the iPhone is going to be 1Ghz. So is the iPad processor. Try getting a Smart Phone below 1Ghz processor speed in next few months.

So when did Apple inform their shills to start questioning the need for 1Ghz processors - especially without Flash?

And the iPhone was introduced in 2007. If over three years, Adobe couldn't figure out how to implement Flash on a device that changed the way people thought about the smartphone, then they deserve everything they're getting now. No excuse for laziness or incompetence in a business that moves as rapidly as this one.
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So let me get this straight - you are saying Apple should continue saying no to Flash and Adobe should invest in Apple's platform to make Flash run better on iPhone? Do you see the problem with that? Sure for Apple and their shills it may not be a problem - but for anyone that is not Apple or Apple-Shill that situation is a problem and Adobe is doing the correct thing - working with other SmartPhone OS vendors to make Flash better.
 
TuffLuffJimmy said:
Then, given the option, don't install Flash. I'm having a hard time seeing anything relevant to the side arguing Apple shouldn't give its users a choice.
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I'm not arguing that they shouldn't. I don't care if they do. I'm just arguing that there are perfectly good reasons that they may choose not to, even if you or I don't agree with them.
 
Hal Itosis said:
Thanks for convincing me you are so out of touch. Don't you run MenuMeters (or iStat), or have some sort of "tachometer" tool monitoring CPU load? I mean... if your hearing can't detect the fans spinning faster, at least glance up to see the percentage readout or the graph going higher. Oh but wait... the video isn't even playing yet. It just a (poorly written) banner in a background tab, selfishly demanding attention.
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My 2008 Macbook doesn't have a problem with Flash. My old Pentium II 333 mhz with Konqueror 2.0 running emulation for the Netscape plug-in of Flash on Linux of all platforms didn't have a problem with Flash.

My fans don't spin up for a banner. My CPU usage doesn't climb up more than any other animated graphics make it climb up.

And again, why are you enabling the plug-in for a banner ? Flash on Android can be enabled/disabled on a per content basis. Why are you clicking to enable the ad banner ? Just enable whatever it is you want to use (video, game, site nav, whatever...) and don't for ads.

Or don't install the plugin at all. What's the problem with not going to the Android Market and not downloading the plug-in if you don't want it ? Is someone holding a gun to your head ?

Ridiculous argument keeps on getting more and more ridiculous.

BaldiMac said:
I'm not arguing that they shouldn't. I don't care if they do. I'm just arguing that there are perfectly good reasons that they may choose not to, even if you or I don't agree with them.
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By your reasoning, they should remove it from OS X and block it there too. It seems you'd rather Apple make your computing decisions and dictate your "user experience". :rolleyes:
 
KnightWRX said:
Adobe should just release whatever flash plug-in they do have on Cydia and make its icon a big middle finger pointed at an apple.
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No, that would be stooping to Apple's level. Adobe should continue to stay on the high road.

public.generic-pc.png
 
BaldiMac said:
What FUD? Everything I said is true.
... Doesn't mean I don't want to be tracked in more ways.
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No, it's not.

You are basically shouting that Flash is a security risk because it tracks you, but turn a blind eye to the fact that most browsers, including Apple's Safari, track you pretty much in the same exact "secret" way by collecting information in DOM Storage.

How does this make Flash somehow worse than using just Safari.

Moreover, Safari DOES NOT allow you to block information being collected about you in DOM Storage.

Adobe, on the other hand, does allow you to set Local Stored Object space to 0, which means NO supercookies can be stored.

So, if Flash DOES allow you to block information being collected about you, while Safari DOES NOT allow you to block information being collected about you, why do you attack Flash, while turning a blind eye to Apple's Safari?

It must be because you love Steve, and love repeating his FUD about Adobe.
 
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