What would I miss going from Mac back to pc?

[Queen6]

If the personal assistant is a female, then I am in.

Indeed, however ever so virtual

I use an MMO mouse for productivity, having one of the buttons mapped to Cortana, more I am, using the virtual assistant the more useful it`s becoming...

Q-6

 

[Capt T]

OP It depends on how you use it. Certain programs specific to Mac you would need to find the PC alternative. Possibly the trackpad if you use all the features.

You would need to get used to the OS, and the different quirks it has from the quirks in the Mac OS.

I would recommend looking at the better built Windows machine alternatives, as I would think if you don't, build quality might be something you miss.
[doublepost=1481922710][/doublepost]

Indeed, however ever so virtual

I use an MMO mouse for productivity, having one of the buttons mapped to Cortana, more I am, using the virtual assistant the more useful to`s becoming...

Q-6

I find it interesting they use Cortana after playing Halo 5......

 

[nighthawk67]

Along with what a lot of people have previously said is the integration between iPhone, iPad and Mac this to me alone will probably keep me on a mac because it's just so easy... "It just works" but another thing is I LOVE using is multiple desktops when I'm working on projects, I don't know if any windows PC's can do this I haven't used one in awhile. But yeah mission control I think is it's technical name, I always keep iTunes, iMessage and Spark(email) open on one desktop and Safari on another and with a simple 3 finger scroll I can switch between the screens with ease! I'm in college and write a lot of papers so instead of trying to keep up a bunch of things on one screen or to keep from minimizing and then pulling things back up I will set my screens up like this
iTunes/iMessage/Spar - Safari with a rubric - Pages where my paper is - PDF(maybe I'm using this as a reference) and I will simply scroll through my screens and it's just so much easier to utilize screen real-estate this way.

 

[Queen6]

OP It depends on how you use it. Certain programs specific to Mac you would need to find the PC alternative. Possibly the trackpad if you use all the features.

You would need to get used to the OS, and the different quirks it has from the quirks in the Mac OS.

I would recommend looking at the better built Windows machine alternatives, as I would think if you don't, build quality might be something you miss.
[doublepost=1481922710][/doublepost]

I find it interesting they use Cortana after playing Halo 5......

Guess it`s just part of the Microsoft universe, never really paid much attention to it, although I am aware of the connection. I suppose it gives the AI a more tangible presence, and instantly recognisable as Microsoft.

Over all I like Cortana, you need to invest time with it, as there obvious limitations. I can be busy on a Mac, yet invoke Cortana and have it line up App`s and documents or general information on the Surface Book, without touching the Keyboard

Q-6
[doublepost=1481923882][/doublepost]

Along with what a lot of people have previously said is the integration between iPhone, iPad and Mac this to me alone will probably keep me on a mac because it's just so easy... "It just works" but another thing is I LOVE using is multiple desktops when I'm working on projects, I don't know if any windows PC's can do this I haven't used one in awhile. But yeah mission control I think is it's technical name, I always keep iTunes, iMessage and Spark(email) open on one desktop and Safari on another and with a simple 3 finger scroll I can switch between the screens with ease! I'm in college and write a lot of papers so instead of trying to keep up a bunch of things on one screen or to keep from minimizing and then pulling things back up I will set my screens up like this
iTunes/iMessage/Spar - Safari with a rubric - Pages where my paper is - PDF(maybe I'm using this as a reference) and I will simply scroll through my screens and it's just so much easier to utilize screen real-estate this way.

Windows 10 is a game changer for me, big user of multiple desktops, typically up to 20, 15 right now on this Mac, probably close to exceeding 45 across two Retina`s & Surface Book. Now Microsoft does it better (for my needs)

Q-6

 

[coolbreeze]

You just have to look at them. The design is cluttered, garrish, and cheap.

View attachment 678308

Apple is the only computer company that approaches hardware from a design-first perspective. Their work is in the MoMa. There is no debate about hardware quality. Surely this cannot be news to you. Look at the simplicity and solidity of this machine. It's unbelievable.

View attachment 678317

Well, you did cherry pick the single worst hinge design pretty much ever. It's not representative of every single Windows OEM design, but helped your narrative I guess.

 

[SteveJUAE]

I was a bit hesitant to engage in this thread with the usual comments you get however I quite like one post using Hotels as an analogy. Trying to avoid the usual TripAdvisor type one hit wonder experience and remaining on topic.

Whilst Apple only offer 3 hotels and some room upgrades where there is a far greater diversity in the Windows hospitality but sticking with 5* MBP and equivalents and avoiding boutique 5* gaming laptops and other similar niches :

Now there is no doubt that there are regional variations and if you live in USA you not only get cheaper room rates, better check-in/check out/baggage services simply by the number of Istores and resale values are also high. Step outside and other than France/UK/some other EU's/AUS and a few other countries this all drops of rapidly. Apple pricing includes all this servicing and if it's important to you and you do not mind paying for this and live in the USA then there is an advantage but for others not so lucky, it just looks like over pricing and subsidy to all the grannies etc that need that level of assistance from the concierge

Reliability, longevity is a perception IMO simply all OEM's only give mandatory 1 year warranty. If Apple were outstandingly better then AppleCare would not be required or would last 5 years etc. If you like Apple styling where it scores is the Unibody it has hardly changed (from a distance and excluding logo) over the years and so remains appealing. Many old windows systems changed so often they could never carry this off like Apple. However the new breed are completely different from bling in the extreme to an amazing array of hinges, screens KB flipping etc making the classic clamshell now aluminium box standard, even if pink/rose is your preference . Many get confused between aesthetics and build quality. Most comments are related to the external build but in truth outside of display it's the internals that count when it comes to reliability.

Keyboards are like beds too hard or too soft and there are many princess and the pea out there. But why on premium laptops there's been a shift from almost universal acceptance of previous MB's or MS KB's to these skinny ones that IMO belong on ultra portables with no proven reliability. I see no advantage in quality on >2k 5* devices. I also understand that the new MBP with TB make some short cuts harder for MSOffice and Adobe users

Trackpads: Apple are the reference point but on other premium products the difference is negligible and soon forgotten. Gestures and swiping are somewhat overrated IMO once you get in to realms of 3 and 4 digits pale in to insignificance over the advantages of touch screens and pens ie your potential gains are so much more especially with convertibles or editing graphical data. It won't matter how good your TP is, a touch/pen is just superior for Photo/Art work

Additional features like force touch and even fingerprint scans only work in some native Apple apps

A great deal of comments are seen on ECO's and inter connectivity but by and large most of these features are available on both platforms and if your an MS Office user even more so. If you also have an Apple email account etc then Icloud for Windows also plugs a few other gaps and ITunes is also available for Win10.

Sure Apples a little smoother for some cross connectivity but MS is catching up rapidly. USA having a greater penetration of IPhone and MAC's tends or seems to have more family groups reliant on Imessages/FaceTime where elsewhere WhatsApp and Line are more generally accepted across multiple devices and platforms alongside native IPhone apps users along with Skype universal acceptance.

Android and W10 seem to communicate better that IOS to WIN10 so flow of notifications/sms is better but answering and making calls currently remain unique to MAC/IPhone combo, which is a nicety but somewhat overrated at times and used more for hot debate points scoring than it's true worth.

Bundled apps and software are even more personal and outside of some unique requirements W10 will always simply have a greater choice although bootcamp etc is always to hand but it's another $1-200 penalty. A lot of wasted typing IMO goes on complaining about bloatware I think this is more a feature of USA telcom providers particularly with Android device and not W10 although some OEM's do bundle some items that are simply deleted other than a couple of very small apps like xbox or weather which is just trivia.

Whilst Win10 is not perfect on battery endurance MAC's only Duracell bunny is the good old MBA and is just another slip in Apples once given area of supremacy.

Both Win10 and MacOS offer a premium environment and tales of BSOD are almost relegated to old wives tales these days, yes there is a different feel and approach to updates on W10 and similarly Apples once more solid performance's slowly eroding and plateauing IMO. The money is in and on Win10 and IOS in IMO

Going full circle and back to the original hotel analogy both offer many similar yet different ambiance and experience. The extra facilities and options offered on Win10 like saunas and spa's (touch/pen) or tennis courts (gaming) are there if you wish. The lifts (TP) maybe smoother and the beds harder (KB) on MAC's but either device is no hardship and the best one is simply an accumulation of minor points that achieve your requirements best.

 

[PhoneI]

Hilarious that all of the world's top corporations choose windows on the desktop.

there are more Honda's on the road than BMWs. I would rather have a BMW.

 

[EndlessBuffoonery]

That's pretty much it.

I switched to Linux.

I'm travelling, so I've gotten to see how more people are reacting to the new machines. Of the three other Mac-only users in my immediate work environment, two are grudgingly using the 2016s, but griping a lot about the problems with them, and one said he'd rather be punched in the face than use the new machine. One of my friends in the area informed me that his die-hard Mac loyalist friend has given up on Apple over this, and it's been pointed out that every Apple design decision of the last few years can be justified with "because **** you, that's why" as a primary motive. (You want to be able to upgrade memory? We'll solder it on, because **** you, that's why. You liked Magsafe? It's gone, because **** you, that's why. Etcetera.)

I miss Textual and MailMate, and I have not found any paint programs that are even moderately tolerable. Darktable seems to me to be much nicer than Photos. So if Aperture were still maintained and all that, sure, I'd be happier with Aperture than I am with the Linux tools. But Apple killed the good tool that actually did the job, and replaced it with a consumer-level toy.

Remember "think different"? I do. Apple doesn't.

I should clarify. Windows is an atrocity, Linux is worse and MacOS is beautiful.

 

[BarracksSi]

What would I miss going from Mac back to pc?

Oh god.

My new job gave me a Win10-equipped Dell Inspiron. First time I've ever used Windows at home. Fresh installation of everything. No commercial bloatware, just some security stuff.

I'll disregard the hardware of the laptop because it has enough horsepower for the basic office communications we do (but WTF, five -- FIVE -- trackpad buttons, and it still has that stupid pencil eraser-like pointing device in the middle of the keyboard... but anyway...). I'll also disregard aesthetic choices like colors and fonts.

Here's what disgusts me about the OS/UI:

- Save dialog boxes don't show the contents of the destination folder. I don't know why.
- Outlook. What a cluster**** the control strip thing is. How an email with a calendar event vanishes when I add its event to the calendar (seriously: DO NOT DELETE MY EMAIL UNTIL I TELL YOU TO.) And you won't realize how great macOS Mail's Smart Mailboxes are until you try creating an equivalent in Outlook. Fuuu.......
- All those little popup things everywhere. Many of them aren't labeled or attached to the things to which they're related. I can now see how phishing works on so many people. Remember "Clippy*"? His ghost lives on in the Taskbar System Tray.
- Clicking on File brings up this huge waste of space that I think they call Metro. It's made for a tablet UI, right? Most of everything else I want to click—especially the aforementioned control strip in Outlook (and Word, and on and on...)—is too small to be good tap targets. Why does this Metro thing exist?
- I can control the headphone volume with the laptop's volume keys until I can't. WTF. Luckily, I found the audio card driver control panel -- and it has four different volume sliders. WTF.
- The display has a blue cast, but I can't change the display calibration in Win10's Settings. Thank goodness I found the nVidia control panel to run the display. It's better, but the calibration capabilities baked into macOS make it much easier to get a much better result.
- Relating to the previous two gripes: There's the Windows control panel, and then there's the vendor control panel. They may not agree.
- Speaking of the display, sometimes it boots to an old-style aspect ratio (1024x768?) and I can't get it to change back because neither Win10's Settings nor nVidia's panel knows it can run the full width of the display even though it did yesterday.
- The trackpad supports two-finger scrolling. Win! The way it reads two-finger scrolling doesn't account for finger slop: if I pick up my fingertips with the slightest bit of accidental "flick", the OS thinks that I wanted to scroll the window's contents up a full page. LOSE.
- "OK/Cancel". Can we stop this? Can we please start using buttons whose labels relate to the action that's about to be taken? It's not 1992 anymore. Goddamn.
- Menu items don't blink when you click them. Maybe there's a setting to change this, but I haven't looked yet. You know how, on the Mac for the past 31 years, a menu item will blink so that you know it acknowledged your click? A Windows menu simply disappears. Maybe it took the command; maybe not; maybe you accidentally moved the cursor onto the next item instead.
- Print dialogs suck. Yes, the Mac's still needs some revising, but Windows's Print panel is several levels higher on the suck ladder. So many hoops to jump through. And "Print to PDF"? Printing involves paper; a PDF is an electronic computer file, not a sheet of paper. How about, "Save as PDF"? And how about not making it the default action even though I used it last time? When I click a button that says "Print", I want to get a piece of paper with ink on it.
- Caps Lock. F that.
- Ctrl-A, Ctrl-C, and Ctrl-V. Why do I hate these key combos? Because while the Mac's Command key is easily reached by my thumb, the Dell's Ctrl key is best reached by my pinky finger -- and my pinky should be by the "a" key, not the bottom row of the keyboard.

I may add more to this list later. Maybe not, though, because the more I write, the more pissed off I get, and the more I believe that the UI people at Microsoft don't give a sh** about humans.

None of these complaints have anything to do with, say, the disk file structure or machine-level OS code. But they're all these little annoyances that add up to making me hate using the computer.
[doublepost=1481946381][/doublepost]

Absolutely, I find Edge to be super fast & fluid, has never presented this to date;
View attachment 678262
Something becoming ever more common with OS X...

Q-6

I gotta admit, I was getting this pretty badly a couple weeks ago.

I googled (well, DuckDuckGo'ed) the error in the Problem Report and found out it was (at least in my case) a corrupt database from Google for the Fraudulent Websites security feature. Came up in an Apple Support thread, where I found out how to trash the file. I haven't had Safari crash since then.
[doublepost=1481947283][/doublepost]

5) OpemEMU - I don't do any gaming anymore aside from a quick game of 8 Ball Pool on my phone but, on the Mac, I love playing some old school games via emulation. On Windows, I have to install several different emulator software packages to play NES, SNES, Genesis, etc. On the Mac, I simply install OpenEMU and pop in my ROM's. One app that emulates all of my different consoles in a sweet looking package. It makes the world of emulation much easier.

Ooh! I haven't played an emulator since the Classic environment was dropped. Where do/did you get your ROMs?

*PS: Who's "Clippy"? It was that moronic cartoon paper clip in Microsoft Office that used to show up in the corner of your screen. The best use of Clippy was in a quiz question in an episode of Wait Wait Don't Tell Me. You have GOT to hear it:
http://www.npr.org/2013/12/28/257559232/clippy-and-paula

 

[tubeexperience]

Most of what's in your listed are non-issues.

You are just not familiar enough with the OS.

- Save dialog boxes don't show the contents of the destination folder. I don't know why.

Yes, it does.

- All those little popup things everywhere. Many of them aren't labeled or attached to the things to which they're related. I can now see how phishing works on so many people. Remember "Clippy*"? His ghost lives on in the Taskbar System Tray.

Can you show me a few examples? I am not sure what you are talking about.

- Clicking on File brings up this huge waste of space that I think they call Metro. It's made for a tablet UI, right? Most of everything else I want to click—especially the aforementioned control strip in Outlook (and Word, and on and on...)—is too small to be good tap targets. Why does this Metro thing exist?

I think the "File" menu is okay. It shows recent files and save locations as well as preview of documents.

Also, is the ribbon what you are calling "control strip"? That was made so that hard to find commands are easier to find.

- I can control the headphone volume with the laptop's volume keys until I can't. WTF. Luckily, I found the audio card driver control panel -- and it has four different volume sliders. WTF.

The first volume slider is for the overall system while the other sliders are for different apps.

- The display has a blue cast, but I can't change the display calibration in Win10's Settings. Thank goodness I found the nVidia control panel to run the display. It's better, but the calibration capabilities baked into macOS make it much easier to get a much better result.

Are you sure you can't adjust if from the "color management" option?

- Speaking of the display, sometimes it boots to an old-style aspect ratio (1024x768?) and I can't get it to change back because neither Win10's Settings nor nVidia's panel knows it can run the full width of the display even though it did yesterday.

New display drivers are going out. While the old drivers are removed and new drivers, you'll see the display in low resolution.

- "OK/Cancel". Can we stop this? Can we please start using buttons whose labels relate to the action that's about to be taken? It's not 1992 anymore. Goddamn.
- Menu items don't blink when you click them. Maybe there's a setting to change this, but I haven't looked yet. You know how, on the Mac for the past 31 years, a menu item will blink so that you know it acknowledged your click? A Windows menu simply disappears. Maybe it took the command; maybe not; maybe you accidentally moved the cursor onto the next item instead.

I've never noticed that.

- Print dialogs suck. Yes, the Mac's still needs some revising, but Windows's Print panel is several levels higher on the suck ladder. So many hoops to jump through. And "Print to PDF"? Printing involves paper; a PDF is an electronic computer file, not a sheet of paper. How about, "Save as PDF"? And how about not making it the default action even though I used it last time? When I click a button that says "Print", I want to get a piece of paper with ink on it.

"Print to PDF" has been around for a very long time. I use that all the time.

And how about not making it the default action even though I used it last time?

You can set the default printer.

- Ctrl-A, Ctrl-C, and Ctrl-V. Why do I hate these key combos? Because while the Mac's Command key is easily reached by my thumb, the Dell's Ctrl key is best reached by my pinky finger -- and my pinky should be by the "a" key, not the bottom row of the keyboard.

Actually, I like those command keys better than the one on macOS because the keys aren't so close together.

 

[Trixs]

Windows 10 is a game changer for me, big user of multiple desktops, typically up to 20, 15 right now on this Mac, probably close to exceeding 45 across two Retina`s & Surface Book. Now Microsoft does it better (for my needs)

Q-6

Holy moly what are doing with all those desktops

 

[lobo1978]

Switching to Windows will give you plenty:
- Lots and lots of updates to cover all holes (free!)
- hidden upgrades to even more crappy OS version (11,12 and 15 - lost count)
- Ransomware - It is HOT Stuff! Highly recommend - you obviously have plenty of time/money if you are switching to Windows
- State-of-the-art viruses - Free!!
- crappy UI
- crappy performance despite good hardware you throw in (in Mac you need less RAM, less CPU time because it is efficient UNIX core)
- deteriorating OS performance with time (one year old windows system = format c:\ -- trust I've been there)
- crappy support (if any)
...

I highly recommend switching to Windows!

GOOD BYE TO ANYBODY WILLING TO SWITCH

and Merry Christmas!

 

[Hyloba]

I have nothing but anecdotal evidence, but I have used Windows for over 20 years and finally took the jump to macOS. I should have done it way sooner. So much time I could have saved, so much frustration I could have avoided. I could write pages about why this machine is so much better (for me, but really for everyone because I always need to fix everyone's problems and crap)

1 short reason for now: printer driver took twice over an hour to download and install on my windows laptop and GFs laptop. Also printing was often hit or miss. However now with my MBP, I connected the printer and driver was automatically downloaded in 1 minute. Printing never had any issues again. Marvellous, absolutely marvellous.

I am so glad with this new laptop, it's like a heavy burden that fell of my shoulders.

 

[BarracksSi]

Most of what's in your listed are non-issues.

You are just not familiar enough with the OS.

Yeah, and banging my head against the wall stops hurting after a while, too.

The UI is absolutely an "issue" because it's how I interact with the computer. If I used only the command line to do everything, maybe I wouldn't care, but it's just not the case.

Save dialogs don't show the contents of the destination folder.

Yes, it does.

No, it doesn't. It shows me the other folders inside the destination folder, but it doesn't show any of the other files. I'll attach a pic below.

Random little popups everywhere

Can you show me a few examples? I am not sure what you are talking about.

"ding" Cisco VPN disconnected
"popup" Enter your ActiveClient credentials
"ding" Cisco VPN connected
"popup, labeled" Microsoft Outlook - Enter your ActiveClient credentials
"popup in the bottom right corner" Your software is being updated. Click here to see. [and this is legit, too]
etc. (and these are the ones common enough that I remember what they are)

My beef with these is related to several aspects:
They're sometimes labeled, like the Outlook password box, but sometimes they're not. They also don't have a "physical connection" to their application, or document window, like OS X's dialog sheets. Remember way back when Jobs introduced the virtual sheets in 10.0 that drop down from a document's title bar, making it clear which document the action was attached to? Nothing like that happens in Windows. Sometimes I'll get that password box and it's not labeled and it's not visually tied to anything.

I said, "I can now see how phishing works," because I can imagine a malicious website or email popping up a lookalike box, similarly not tied to any particular window, and snagging a user's password, or gaining permissions to install more software. The normal way of doing things has enough inconsistency that nothing seems abnormal.

Rant about Metro-like interface

I think the "File" menu is okay. It shows recent files and save locations as well as preview of documents.

See attached. That's "okay"? It's a half-million pixels of nothing.

Rant about control strip, aka Ribbon, and its inconsistency with Metro style

Also, is the ribbon what you are calling "control strip"? That was made so that hard to find commands are easier to find.

It's giving me all kinds of stuff right up front that I'll probably never need, and layers the commonly-used stuff into other Ribbons. And, if Win10 wants to be touch-friendly, it doesn't make any sense to make all those controls and buttons in the Ribbon so damned small.

If I can customize it and remove all the junk I never use, I will. I don't expect that it can be made as simple as Mac's Mail toolbar while retaining as much usability, though.

Rant about conflicting volume controls

The first volume slider is for the overall system while the other sliders are for different apps.

....what? Why?

Why doesn't the overall system volume decrease when I press the buttons next to the keyboard? When I press them, a little indicator window appears in the top left corner of the screen, and it goes all the way down to "0" -- but the volume coming out of my headphones hasn't changed at all. And that's even though it worked YESTERDAY. WHY? WTF?

Can't calibrate the color from Windows control panel

Are you sure you can't adjust if from the "color management" option?

In my case, no, because I don't have admin permissions to change color, which is under "Advanced Settings". The real questions then become:
1. Why is color management an "advanced" setting? What's so "advanced" about making a display not look like sh*t?
2. Why isn't the nVidia graphics card control panel blocked to non-admin users?
3. Can't I just adjust the color temperature instead of trying to move sliders for RGB values? You know, like how we can do on the Mac? No?

Display won't show in its native resolution one day even though it worked properly the day before

New display drivers are going out. While the old drivers are removed and new drivers, you'll see the display in low resolution.

WTF. That's stupid. If it gets any dumber, it'll flash "PC LOAD LETTER" on my screen.

I only ask two things for the display software to do:
- Use the entire screen,
- Don't randomly forget the resolution of the LCD built into the damned laptop. It's right there. This is like a chef with four frying pans of food but only using two burners on a four-burner stove.

Menu items don't blink when you click them

I've never noticed that.

I didn't really notice it for a while, either. But, I started wondering why I always felt a little unsure about clicking any menu item (whether from the menu bar, right-clicking, etc). I watched my Mac again and noticed the brief single blink it always has when you click a menu item command (in the old days, you could set it to blink once, twice, or even three times). I went back to the Windows laptop and, nope, it doesn't blink.

As I write about it, it seems like a petty little thing, but every time I don't get a visual confirmation about an action I wanted, I wonder if the computer really knows what it's doing. It's like if I asked someone, "Did you get my email?" and they don't say anything. Sheesh, at least say yes or no.

"Print to PDF" ends up as the default even though I never set it to the default.

"Print to PDF" has been around for a very long time. I use that all the time.

The Mac's Save As PDF feature has been around a long time, too -- and the Mac's Print button prints to a sheet of paper, not an electronic PDF file, because printing ink onto paper is what "Print" means and has meant since at least the days of Gutenberg.

You can set the default printer.

I did (and it took a while), and it still puts "Print to PDF" at the top of the printer list... and a PDF isn't even a PRINTER.

For Christ's sakes, I shouldn't need to go down a checklist of settings just to make sure that, when I click the big button that says "PRINT", I can remain confident that I'll get some pressed tree pulp with blackened chemicals baked into it instead of yet another electronic file.

And it saves as a PDF file even though the little "Print to file" checkbox is UNchecked. See pic.

Ctrl-V sucks because Ctrl is close to the pinky and not the thumb.

Actually, I like those command keys better than the one on macOS because the keys aren't so close together.

This doesn't make much sense. Are you saying that pressing Cmd-C can be done accidentally because the keys are too close together? How sloppy do you have to be as a typist to make this happen?

In my high school typing class, we were taught that moving the hands reduces accuracy. This is like, say, picking up your hand from the palm rest so you can reach a key outside the normal letter keys. I have to pick up my hand to reach the Ctrl key with my pinky finger, which changes the motion I need to make to press either the C or V keys (and changes which finger I need to use for the A key). No, it makes more sense to use the Cmd key, because it's easily reached by the thumb, which is already living in the spacebar row like it should be.

Another couple things --

This is the Print dialog in Outlook, which, for some reason, has taken up my entire screen. Why isn't it the same as the other Print dialog?

And you see the "X" in the upper right? Guess what happens when you click it. ..... Did you guess that it closes this Print dialog just like the other one? If so, then you're wrong, because it quits Outlook entirely. Inconsistency is normal.

Then here's Dell's control panel for its touchpad.
1. Why aren't these controls built into the Windows settings instead?
2. Why is this interface completely inconsistent with everything else in Windows?
3. Why is there no way to reprogram the other three buttons above the touchpad?
4. There's a setting in here (not pictured) for "middle click" for the trackpad. WTF is a "middle click"? Oh, is that when you click a mouse's scroll wheel? But this is a trackpad, not a mouse.

I'm sorry, but all of this sucks.

And I'm not even talking about system maintenance, bug fixing, specs-per-dollar, or hardware design & engineering. I'm just talking about the UI and how it hampers using the computer easily and efficiently. It's worth discussing, too, because at least 95% of using the computer is done through its user interface.

 

[Pootmatoot]

I'm a lifelong dual user... and it's basically just what you're used to at this point.

One of the only "real" objective differences is that Windows world offers real variety and choice and value in hardware.

 

[SteveJUAE]

Yeah, and banging my head against the wall stops hurting after a while, too.

The UI is absolutely an "issue" because it's how I interact with the computer. If I used only the command line to do everything, maybe I wouldn't care, but it's just not the case.



No, it doesn't. It shows me the other folders inside the destination folder, but it doesn't show any of the other files. I'll attach a pic below.



"ding" Cisco VPN disconnected
"popup" Enter your ActiveClient credentials
"ding" Cisco VPN connected
"popup, labeled" Microsoft Outlook - Enter your ActiveClient credentials
"popup in the bottom right corner" Your software is being updated. Click here to see. [and this is legit, too]
etc. (and these are the ones common enough that I remember what they are)

My beef with these is related to several aspects:
They're sometimes labeled, like the Outlook password box, but sometimes they're not. They also don't have a "physical connection" to their application, or document window, like OS X's dialog sheets. Remember way back when Jobs introduced the virtual sheets in 10.0 that drop down from a document's title bar, making it clear which document the action was attached to? Nothing like that happens in Windows. Sometimes I'll get that password box and it's not labeled and it's not visually tied to anything.

I said, "I can now see how phishing works," because I can imagine a malicious website or email popping up a lookalike box, similarly not tied to any particular window, and snagging a user's password, or gaining permissions to install more software. The normal way of doing things has enough inconsistency that nothing seems abnormal.



See attached. That's "okay"? It's a half-million pixels of nothing.



It's giving me all kinds of stuff right up front that I'll probably never need, and layers the commonly-used stuff into other Ribbons. And, if Win10 wants to be touch-friendly, it doesn't make any sense to make all those controls and buttons in the Ribbon so damned small.

If I can customize it and remove all the junk I never use, I will. I don't expect that it can be made as simple as Mac's Mail toolbar while retaining as much usability, though.



....what? Why?

Why doesn't the overall system volume decrease when I press the buttons next to the keyboard? When I press them, a little indicator window appears in the top left corner of the screen, and it goes all the way down to "0" -- but the volume coming out of my headphones hasn't changed at all. And that's even though it worked YESTERDAY. WHY? WTF?



In my case, no, because I don't have admin permissions to change color, which is under "Advanced Settings". The real questions then become:
1. Why is color management an "advanced" setting? What's so "advanced" about making a display not look like sh*t?
2. Why isn't the nVidia graphics card control panel blocked to non-admin users?
3. Can't I just adjust the color temperature instead of trying to move sliders for RGB values? You know, like how we can do on the Mac? No?



WTF. That's stupid. If it gets any dumber, it'll flash "PC LOAD LETTER" on my screen.

I only ask two things for the display software to do:
- Use the entire screen,
- Don't randomly forget the resolution of the LCD built into the damned laptop. It's right there. This is like a chef with four frying pans of food but only using two burners on a four-burner stove.



I didn't really notice it for a while, either. But, I started wondering why I always felt a little unsure about clicking any menu item (whether from the menu bar, right-clicking, etc). I watched my Mac again and noticed the brief single blink it always has when you click a menu item command (in the old days, you could set it to blink once, twice, or even three times). I went back to the Windows laptop and, nope, it doesn't blink.

As I write about it, it seems like a petty little thing, but every time I don't get a visual confirmation about an action I wanted, I wonder if the computer really knows what it's doing. It's like if I asked someone, "Did you get my email?" and they don't say anything. Sheesh, at least say yes or no.



The Mac's Save As PDF feature has been around a long time, too -- and the Mac's Print button prints to a sheet of paper, not an electronic PDF file, because printing ink onto paper is what "Print" means and has meant since at least the days of Gutenberg.


I did (and it took a while), and it still puts "Print to PDF" at the top of the printer list... and a PDF isn't even a PRINTER.

For Christ's sakes, I shouldn't need to go down a checklist of settings just to make sure that, when I click the big button that says "PRINT", I can remain confident that I'll get some pressed tree pulp with blackened chemicals baked into it instead of yet another electronic file.

And it saves as a PDF file even though the little "Print to file" checkbox is UNchecked. See pic.



This doesn't make much sense. Are you saying that pressing Cmd-C can be done accidentally because the keys are too close together? How sloppy do you have to be as a typist to make this happen?

In my high school typing class, we were taught that moving the hands reduces accuracy. This is like, say, picking up your hand from the palm rest so you can reach a key outside the normal letter keys. I have to pick up my hand to reach the Ctrl key with my pinky finger, which changes the motion I need to make to press either the C or V keys (and changes which finger I need to use for the A key). No, it makes more sense to use the Cmd key, because it's easily reached by the thumb, which is already living in the spacebar row like it should be.

Another couple things --

This is the Print dialog in Outlook, which, for some reason, has taken up my entire screen. Why isn't it the same as the other Print dialog?

And you see the "X" in the upper right? Guess what happens when you click it. ..... Did you guess that it closes this Print dialog just like the other one? If so, then you're wrong, because it quits Outlook entirely. Inconsistency is normal.

Then here's Dell's control panel for its touchpad.
1. Why aren't these controls built into the Windows settings instead?
2. Why is this interface completely inconsistent with everything else in Windows?
3. Why is there no way to reprogram the other three buttons above the touchpad?
4. There's a setting in here (not pictured) for "middle click" for the trackpad. WTF is a "middle click"? Oh, is that when you click a mouse's scroll wheel? But this is a trackpad, not a mouse.

I'm sorry, but all of this sucks.

And I'm not even talking about system maintenance, bug fixing, specs-per-dollar, or hardware design & engineering. I'm just talking about the UI and how it hampers using the computer easily and efficiently. It's worth discussing, too, because at least 95% of using the computer is done through its user interface.

They sell nice little paperbacks at news stands for this level of assistance and now you know what all those grannie ex Ipad owners are doing at the genius bar after getting a MAC

I would also have a chat with your Company IT department to explain security and why employees have restricted access to certain feature, (which is mainly to stop users screwing up the system and needing even more support) .
[doublepost=1482007819][/doublepost]

1 short reason for now: printer driver took twice over an hour to download and install on my windows laptop and GFs laptop. Also printing was often hit or miss. However now with my MBP, I connected the printer and driver was automatically downloaded in 1 minute. Printing never had any issues again. Marvellous, absolutely marvellous.

I am so glad with this new laptop, it's like a heavy burden that fell of my shoulders.

Whilst I understand your frustration I have experienced the same with HP printers in the past where their driver downloads are slow and they want you to go through some lengthy install routine but this is more HP than Windows.

However it has got easier with the windows store app HP AIO and HP app for auto detection and background loading is a lot better.

It is also much faster if you just do the min install and then copy the install.exe file to any device in your house. This also saves having to uncheck add Yahoo tool bar or print ordering and the extra free programmes and utilities they offer

 

[Hyloba]

Doublepost (apparently)

 

[BarracksSi]

They sell nice little paperbacks at news stands for this level of assistance and now you know what all those grannie ex Ipad owners are doing at the genius bar after getting a MAC

I would also have a chat with your Company IT department to explain security and why employees have restricted access to certain feature, (which is mainly to stop users screwing up the system and needing even more support) .

Still not a fix.

[edit] That's basically saying, "Yes, it's stupid from the get-go, so just get used to it even though it sucks."

Getting accustomed to something doesn't make it any better.

[edit 2]
Let me be clear: I can do things on my Win10 Dell. I can do enough for what my job is asking me to do.

I can't stand HOW it does what it does.

 

[kinster]

I've got a PC but forgot to start a thread about it.

 

[kis]

1. Smooth scrolling, Windows can never get that right.
Trackpad + Gesture, that has always been macOS exclusive.

Not really true. The EDGE browser offers buttery smooth scrolling. Other browsers don't. Not sure why that is, but it's a fact. Same goes for some other apps: scrolling in Facebook is smooth, but way too fast, for example.

The Apple touchpads used to be crème de la crème, but with the new models, Apple has clearly messed up. They're simply too big - palm rejection doesn't always work perfectly, plus drag and drop has become a nightmare. After having used the touchpad on both the 13" and the 15" Touchbar MBPs, I've come to the conclusion that they're inferior to the previous model's and also to the Surface Book's.

 

[Queen6]

Holy moly what are doing with all those desktops

I am a consultant engineer in the oil & gas industry, so tend to isolate desktops and systems to specific projects, which can be expansive.

Q-6
[doublepost=1482015072][/doublepost]

Yeah, and banging my head against the wall stops hurting after a while, too.

The UI is absolutely an "issue" because it's how I interact with the computer. If I used only the command line to do everything, maybe I wouldn't care, but it's just not the case.



No, it doesn't. It shows me the other folders inside the destination folder, but it doesn't show any of the other files. I'll attach a pic below.



"ding" Cisco VPN disconnected
"popup" Enter your ActiveClient credentials
"ding" Cisco VPN connected
"popup, labeled" Microsoft Outlook - Enter your ActiveClient credentials
"popup in the bottom right corner" Your software is being updated. Click here to see. [and this is legit, too]
etc. (and these are the ones common enough that I remember what they are)

My beef with these is related to several aspects:
They're sometimes labeled, like the Outlook password box, but sometimes they're not. They also don't have a "physical connection" to their application, or document window, like OS X's dialog sheets. Remember way back when Jobs introduced the virtual sheets in 10.0 that drop down from a document's title bar, making it clear which document the action was attached to? Nothing like that happens in Windows. Sometimes I'll get that password box and it's not labeled and it's not visually tied to anything.

I said, "I can now see how phishing works," because I can imagine a malicious website or email popping up a lookalike box, similarly not tied to any particular window, and snagging a user's password, or gaining permissions to install more software. The normal way of doing things has enough inconsistency that nothing seems abnormal.



See attached. That's "okay"? It's a half-million pixels of nothing.



It's giving me all kinds of stuff right up front that I'll probably never need, and layers the commonly-used stuff into other Ribbons. And, if Win10 wants to be touch-friendly, it doesn't make any sense to make all those controls and buttons in the Ribbon so damned small.

If I can customize it and remove all the junk I never use, I will. I don't expect that it can be made as simple as Mac's Mail toolbar while retaining as much usability, though.



....what? Why?

Why doesn't the overall system volume decrease when I press the buttons next to the keyboard? When I press them, a little indicator window appears in the top left corner of the screen, and it goes all the way down to "0" -- but the volume coming out of my headphones hasn't changed at all. And that's even though it worked YESTERDAY. WHY? WTF?



In my case, no, because I don't have admin permissions to change color, which is under "Advanced Settings". The real questions then become:
1. Why is color management an "advanced" setting? What's so "advanced" about making a display not look like sh*t?
2. Why isn't the nVidia graphics card control panel blocked to non-admin users?
3. Can't I just adjust the color temperature instead of trying to move sliders for RGB values? You know, like how we can do on the Mac? No?



WTF. That's stupid. If it gets any dumber, it'll flash "PC LOAD LETTER" on my screen.

I only ask two things for the display software to do:
- Use the entire screen,
- Don't randomly forget the resolution of the LCD built into the damned laptop. It's right there. This is like a chef with four frying pans of food but only using two burners on a four-burner stove.



I didn't really notice it for a while, either. But, I started wondering why I always felt a little unsure about clicking any menu item (whether from the menu bar, right-clicking, etc). I watched my Mac again and noticed the brief single blink it always has when you click a menu item command (in the old days, you could set it to blink once, twice, or even three times). I went back to the Windows laptop and, nope, it doesn't blink.

As I write about it, it seems like a petty little thing, but every time I don't get a visual confirmation about an action I wanted, I wonder if the computer really knows what it's doing. It's like if I asked someone, "Did you get my email?" and they don't say anything. Sheesh, at least say yes or no.



The Mac's Save As PDF feature has been around a long time, too -- and the Mac's Print button prints to a sheet of paper, not an electronic PDF file, because printing ink onto paper is what "Print" means and has meant since at least the days of Gutenberg.


I did (and it took a while), and it still puts "Print to PDF" at the top of the printer list... and a PDF isn't even a PRINTER.

For Christ's sakes, I shouldn't need to go down a checklist of settings just to make sure that, when I click the big button that says "PRINT", I can remain confident that I'll get some pressed tree pulp with blackened chemicals baked into it instead of yet another electronic file.

And it saves as a PDF file even though the little "Print to file" checkbox is UNchecked. See pic.



This doesn't make much sense. Are you saying that pressing Cmd-C can be done accidentally because the keys are too close together? How sloppy do you have to be as a typist to make this happen?

In my high school typing class, we were taught that moving the hands reduces accuracy. This is like, say, picking up your hand from the palm rest so you can reach a key outside the normal letter keys. I have to pick up my hand to reach the Ctrl key with my pinky finger, which changes the motion I need to make to press either the C or V keys (and changes which finger I need to use for the A key). No, it makes more sense to use the Cmd key, because it's easily reached by the thumb, which is already living in the spacebar row like it should be.

Another couple things --

This is the Print dialog in Outlook, which, for some reason, has taken up my entire screen. Why isn't it the same as the other Print dialog?

And you see the "X" in the upper right? Guess what happens when you click it. ..... Did you guess that it closes this Print dialog just like the other one? If so, then you're wrong, because it quits Outlook entirely. Inconsistency is normal.

Then here's Dell's control panel for its touchpad.
1. Why aren't these controls built into the Windows settings instead?
2. Why is this interface completely inconsistent with everything else in Windows?
3. Why is there no way to reprogram the other three buttons above the touchpad?
4. There's a setting in here (not pictured) for "middle click" for the trackpad. WTF is a "middle click"? Oh, is that when you click a mouse's scroll wheel? But this is a trackpad, not a mouse.

I'm sorry, but all of this sucks.

And I'm not even talking about system maintenance, bug fixing, specs-per-dollar, or hardware design & engineering. I'm just talking about the UI and how it hampers using the computer easily and efficiently. It's worth discussing, too, because at least 95% of using the computer is done through its user interface.

Looks like you and or your company have some issues to resolve. I am lucky, as I control my computing environment, therefore have little to no issue, be it Windows 10 or OS X.

Q-6

 

[fyun89]

I own three windows machines and a macbook. To answer OP's question:

1. Apple: Fluid, smooth experience -- Apple apps integrate very well and scuptured for easy to use experience

Windows: Windows really came close to Apple woth Windows 10 but it's still a bit off

2. Apple: You can be at ease in terms of malware and virus awareness (relative to windows-there are still vulnerability in Macs)

Windows: This also became better with W10, especially with built in malware/virus scanner; but still not as affective as paid ones.

3. Apple: Continuity -- matters only if you have other Apple devices

Windows: windows also offer continuity--if you use Microsoft apps, this shouldnt be much of a problem-albeit some missing features like copy paste continuity and others.

4. Apple: if you use MacOS finder features (highlight, color label, etc) you will miss those

Windows: have much less features, but you can still add custom features to match the MacOS experience

5. Apple: high efficiency, perforamance and battery life (despite the controversy these days)

Windows: again, they are doing better, but Apple still has edge over power control.

6. Apple: Better support - Apple Stores are everywhere
Windows: you CAN get support from common places like Bestbuy, but often not as a good experience as Apple Store's.

As I continue to write, you can see that Windows has caught up a lot. You will be able to do and experience MOST things with Windows, especially with customization available for Windows.
However, the experience difference will be like wearing a bespoke suit (mac - well made and tailored experience) vs Nordstrom shelve suit (windows-which get things done very well with good value)

What you WONT miss:
1. APPLE TAX (premium on Apple products)
2. Hardware choice & upgradability
3. Compatibility
4. Performance per dollar

My rule:
Use Mac for personal stuff
Use PC for work related

 

[SteveJUAE]

Still not a fix.

[edit] That's basically saying, "Yes, it's stupid from the get-go, so just get used to it even though it sucks."

Getting accustomed to something doesn't make it any better.

[edit 2]
Let me be clear: I can do things on my Win10 Dell. I can do enough for what my job is asking me to do.

I can't stand HOW it does what it does.

IMO what we are seeing is your frustration in learning a new OS and a little more time and patience you would see the err's in your postings. This is not the appropriate thread/forum to spend a whole lot of time hand holding, sorry.

eg: You can't see the files in the directory your saving as you have not saved any previous msg files, probably as it a new PC and it's the first time you are doing this. The next time you save you will see the previous file ????.msg. You will not see other files with different extensions as this would be irrelevant to the operation in hand and additionally you could not (easily)overwrite them as they are different.

Tip you can also right click on the save window and perform other actions like create a new directory/folder

Your IT Admin should of set up your printers and defaults via control panel etc if you have access, it is easy and the default will be at the top. Similarly IT should setup the network connection and explain, you maybe seeing errors here as you may not have access from home for example.

Etc etc

I suggest you get a book, or training or use the appropriate forum to get the level of assistance you currently need to be more efficient.

There will be differences and little thing that annoy, but that's equally true either way

 

[bchan009]

@BarracksSi:

As someone who got very good with Win computers, switched to a Mac in college, and then switched back/occasionally still use a Mac, I feel like you've been hit by a triple threat:

1) Unfamiliarity with Windows
2) Annoying corporate software that sucks but your workplace probably makes you use
3) 3rd party software with a ****** UI

Not trying to convince you windows is better than MacOS or vice versa, but let me try to help out a bit with some of your problems.

No, it doesn't. It shows me the other folders inside the destination folder, but it doesn't show any of the other files. I'll attach a pic below.

This is a "Window-ism". Some people might hate this, some might like it -- I'm not gonna pass judgement. When you save a file in Windows, it shows you other files of the same type you are saving. This can be useful because it allows you to easily find other files of the same type in the target folder.

There are two boxes in a save file dialog. The top box is what you want to name your file. (Just like MacOS) The second box underneath it (save as type), lets you choose what type of file you'd like to save it as. This list will show all file formats the program you are using supports.

So for example, if you chose "Word Document (.doc)" in the "save as type" box, Windows will only display other word documents in the save file window.

In your example picture you are saving an "Outlook Message" file. Since there are no other "Outlook Message" files in that particular folder, Windows doesn't show anything there. This is why it seems like that folder is empty and you are getting confused.

If you want to see ALL files in that folder, regardless of what file type you are currently saving, you can usually select "All files" from the "save as type" box, in which case you will see everything in there.

"ding" Cisco VPN disconnected
"popup" Enter your ActiveClient credentials
"ding" Cisco VPN connected
"popup, labeled" Microsoft Outlook - Enter your ActiveClient credentials
"popup in the bottom right corner" Your software is being updated. Click here to see. [and this is legit, too]
etc. (and these are the ones common enough that I remember what they are)

The first two are related to network software and VPNs that your workplace requires you use. These can be annoying but it's not really Windows' fault...corporate software is usually clunky and annoying. The other popup is obviously Outlook. I personally don't like Outlook.

Windows 10 has a notification center (word bubble icon next to clock in lower right). This is the same as in MacOS. It shows all notifications in one place and where they come from. At least you will know where everything is. Turning off notifications from annoying programs have to be set in the programs themselves. Again this is more about badly designed 3rd party stuff than the OS itself.

I'm afraid if you used a Mac for work and the required software was written by the same company it'd be just as annoying on Mac.

I did (and it took a while), and it still puts "Print to PDF" at the top of the printer list... and a PDF isn't even a PRINTER.

For Christ's sakes, I shouldn't need to go down a checklist of settings just to make sure that, when I click the big button that says "PRINT", I can remain confident that I'll get some pressed tree pulp with blackened chemicals baked into it instead of yet another electronic file.

And it saves as a PDF file even though the little "Print to file" checkbox is UNchecked. See pic.

Again a third party problem. Windows 10 has a built-in "print to pdf" function. If you select it it will automatically check "print to file", as it should. Likewise, if you choose a printer, it should normally de-select "print to file".

Unfortunately, I'm assuming you have Adobe Acrobat installed. Adobe Acrobat installs its own "print-to-pdf" virtual printer. That is the one you have selected in the picture. Adobe's version IGNORES the "print to file" checkbox built into Windows. This is probably due to Adobe not following MS guidelines.

So again you're being shafted by a 3rd party not designing their stuff properly. As someone who used to use Adobe software CONSTANTLY on Mac, I can assure you that Adobe doesn't follow Apple guidelines on how things should work either. I've seen Adobe make a mess of Macs...

---

Long story short, I think a lot of ppl are like you. They need Windows for work and a lot of the work trappings that go with that make them think Windows is the worst when really it's lousy software. What they don't realize is that if Macs were standard for work, they might be complaining about the same type of stuff on Mac computers because their offices would be making them install crap on their Macs.

I remember switching to Mac and being enraged by the lack of a cut function for moving files. Dragging and dropping between two windows with a mouse seemed needlessly slow and cumbersome. Every OS has their quirks. Having used both for a long time now (and linux too!) I've come to realize that at the end of the day all 3 have their ups AND downs. =)

 

[BarracksSi]

eg: You can't see the files in the directory your saving as you have not saved any previous msg files, probably as it a new PC and it's the first time you are doing this.

Absolutely incorrect, because that Documents folder contained a couple dozen documents when I took that photo of the Save dialog.

The rest of your response is invalid. My IT department has no say in how Windows's UI is designed.

Kthxbye.