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Yeah, and you are a fool for doing so.. waste of money + the 2009's are still plauged with many many problems(NANOFROG).

The usage listed = rendering, so I suspect the software is capable of actually using all 8 cores in the CPU's (physical). In that instance, the '09 can give better performance. Not sure about the 90% part, but an improvement none the less (same job = less time to render on the '09 than the '08).

Now if that system's used to earn an income, it may make financial sense to do so, as it would allow for additional jobs to be accepted within a period of time = more money earned. In this instance, the machine earns it's keep so to speak. ;)
 
I'll have my dual 6 core built by then. Cheaper too. :D

What motherboard are you planning to use. I will probably go the same route, however, it doesn't seem to be cheaper. I added all the stuff to my cart that I'd need at NewEgg and the total is up to $6200. The CPUs cost so much...
 
As for the 2009 vs. 2008... the 2008 is the last of the FSB architecture and good-ridance to that. The FSB runs at 200MHz and is quad-pumped to achieve 800 MT/s. The FSB is used for interprocessor communications and also for both CPU's in a DP system to communicate with the memory controller. The 2008's also used an 800MHz memory bus with fully buffered DDR2 which can as much as double latency (source). The only real advantage to FBDIMM's is that it allows lots of memory DIMM sockets since trace lengths to the controller from the DIMM sockets are no longer relevant to the design (since the data is fully buffered) - but you sacrifice a lot of performance to get those plentiful DIMM slots.

Architecturally, the 2009 Nehalems bring a lot of advancements to the table starting with the elimination of the FSB. Now interprocessor communications happen over a quick path interconnect at 8x the speed of the old FSB (6.4GT/s) and the memory controller is now on-die with each CPU having direct access to it's RAM bank or a QPI link away to the RAM on the other processor. No more contention for memory access by CPU's competing for cycles on the already bottlenecked FSB that's in the 2008's. Add to this support for 1066MHz DDR3 in triple-channel mode, and the memory performance is almost on par with the L3 cache bandwidth of the 2008 CPU on-die cache!

Then there's hyperthreading which uses stalled cycles on each core to process other tasks that are queued up and ready to go... so as not to waste any clock cycles when the CPU is maxed out.

Last but not least, there's Turbo Boost, which provides a clock multipler boost to one or two cores for lightly threaded apps when the other cores can be put into a lower power state.

Now all this technological advancement is unfortunately untapped by most software applications but highly threaded memory intensive software has been proven to perform better on the Nehalem architecture and this gap will only increase over time as software is optimized for it.

Can everyone leverage the benefits of the 2009 architecture? Of course not. But everyone will benefit from at least some of these new enhancements at some point in their workflow.

Now the issues with the 2009 are largely overstated in my view. The commonly stated issues are:

- The audio temperature issue: solved
- The DIMM slots in the Quad: It costs more to populate memory using 4GB sticks but it's not insurmountable and probably impacts only a minority of users/workloads that only require 4 cores but greater than 16GB of RAM.
- The SATA throughput limit on the ICH: This is actually common to all recent Intel ICH chips going back at least to the ICH9 (2008) and even earlier so its not unique to the 2009 and only rear's it's ugly head when trying to use several high performance drives in RAID0.
- Price: Yes the 2009 is more expensive. Whether there's value there for any given user depends on their workload, business case, and budget.

The fact is that there are few, if any, technological merits to the 2008 architecture. Only it's price/value is attractive because most of our software (but not all) pitifully trails the capabilities of current hardware.
 
The fact is that there are few, if any, technological merits to the 2008 architecture. Only it's price/value is attractive because most of our software (but not all) pitifully trails the capabilities of current hardware.

I hate to oversimplify things, but the fact is that the hardware advancements are completely irrelevant if they cannot be utilized by all but the occasional application. For most people (and most apps), going with the '08 model because of the reduced price makes more sense, as the extra money can be put into things that also create system bottlenecks such as HDD throughput.

Sure, the software will catch up to the current hardware, however at the current rate we will be will into 2013 until most apps can use 4 cores, let alone 8, 12 or 3,000. I feel that it would seem a much better choice looking back to save the money than use it on hardware that can't be fully used for another several years, at which point much more powerful components will be available.

Of course, none of this will matter, due to the world ending in 2012 and all :rolleyes:
 
I'm having trouble understanding what Apple is doing, as any machine they put out right now has a limited life as it is because of Sandy Bridge's imminent release in Q4. At this point, a new Mac Pro in June wouldn't give the box much time using the latest components to compete with the rest of the industry.

Oh wait, I forgot Apple isn't worried about such frivolous things :eek:

High-end version of Sandy Bridge won't be released until mid 2011 at the earliest.
 
What motherboard are you planning to use. I will probably go the same route, however, it doesn't seem to be cheaper. I added all the stuff to my cart that I'd need at NewEgg and the total is up to $6200. The CPUs cost so much...

Tiger direct price is $1099.99
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicat...ls.asp?EdpNo=9461&sku=I69-980X&srkey=gulftown
Newegg wants $1139.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115223

As far as I know, EVGA has the only mobo for dual socket to handle these but still looking around. My guess apple will charge around 8 grand for a dual socket gulftown system. What mobo are you looking at that will handle these beasts? I did see the mobo's on newegg's site for the 1366 sockets but unsure if these are up to the task. Been looking at the asus mobo's.
 
What motherboard are you planning to use. I will probably go the same route, however, it doesn't seem to be cheaper. I added all the stuff to my cart that I'd need at NewEgg and the total is up to $6200. The CPUs cost so much...

How did you get that quote? Right now Newegg does not have the Xeon 5600's in stock.
 
Tiger direct price is $1099.99
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicat...ls.asp?EdpNo=9461&sku=I69-980X&srkey=gulftown
Newegg wants $1139.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115223

As far as I know, EVGA has the only mobo for dual socket to handle these but still looking around. My guess apple will charge around 8 grand for a dual socket gulftown system. What mobo are you looking at that will handle these beasts? I did see the mobo's on newegg's site for the 1366 sockets but unsure if these are up to the task. Been looking at the asus mobo's.

Those CPUs don't work in a dual processor configuration. There are Xeon 5600s listed on other sites though which will work in existing 5520 chipset boards.

The 2.66GHz 6 core processors are $38 more than the 2.66GHz quads found in Apple's current dual processor Mac Pro. Meaning such a system should be no more than a $100 more than it is now assuming they don't change the chipset.
 
Now all this technological advancement is unfortunately untapped by most software applications but highly threaded memory intensive software has been proven to perform better on the Nehalem architecture and this gap will only increase over time as software is optimized for it.
But purchase decisions should be based on usage. For some, the '09's offer a clear advantage, but it's not necessarily the case for many users. And unfortunately, the software won't likely be capable of leveraging Nehalem architecture to it's full potential within 3 - 5 years from the initial launch (typical MTBR).

It's getting harder to select systems, primarily given the cost increases. Users are having to take a hard look at what they need vs. what they want/think they need in order to fit within budget.
 
I'm having trouble understanding what Apple is doing, as any machine they put out right now has a limited life as it is because of Sandy Bridge's imminent release in Q4. At this point, a new Mac Pro in June wouldn't give the box much time using the latest components to compete with the rest of the industry.

Oh wait, I forgot Apple isn't worried about such frivolous things :eek:
Sandy Bridge EP is expected to be released in Q2 2011. The low-end and midrange desktop/notebook versions will be the first to be released, in Q1 2011.
 
But purchase decisions should be based on usage. For some, the '09's offer a clear advantage, but it's not necessarily the case for many users. And unfortunately, the software won't likely be capable of leveraging Nehalem architecture to it's full potential within 3 - 5 years from the initial launch (typical MTBR).

A lot of the people I know are expecting a significant upgrade in the next FCS to use more cores/ram. All of the MP users that I know are video pros and I believe that this group is a significant % of MP users. I know for me video & paint programs are the only ones that I use that would benefit from the ability to utilize all that power. The fact that compressor does already is significant. So for some of us, maybe the software is closer than the 3-5 year projection??

As for the 2009 vs. 2008...

- The audio temperature issue: solved

Nice post, learned a lot about the differences - Thanks
It seems that people are having issues with Apogee interfaces now, so I'm not sure that it is 100% fixed (??)

June for the 2010????
:apple: sold a bunch of MP off the refurb pg on Tuesday. Lets just hope this is a "leak" to move out some of the existing stock, though if the leak had come back in Jan, I probably would have upgraded then, Now I'm up in the air - waited this long - will it really be June - & if it is June, maybe the upgrade will be more significant than we think.
 
A lot of the people I know are expecting a significant upgrade in the next FCS to use more cores/ram. All of the MP users that I know are video pros and I believe that this group is a significant % of MP users. I know for me video & paint programs are the only ones that I use that would benefit from the ability to utilize all that power. The fact that compressor does already is significant. So for some of us, maybe the software is closer than the 3-5 year projection??
But you're talking about a specific area of use. Yes, it's a viable argument if that's where you spend your time working. (I agree FCS going 64 bit will be a substantial improvement, particularly in the ability to address system memory).

But even then, it may not be optimized for Nehalem's entire architectural advantages (i.e. triple channel DDR3). Software developers still have to include some backwards compatibility, or else they run the risk of alienating their client base (i.e. those still on older systems, but not yet reached it's planned MTBR).

It gets tricky, and each user has to evaluate their specific situation is what I was getting at (not as with previous systems where it was more of a one or two sizes fits all type of environment ;)). And unfortunately, generally speaking, most applications are well behind in taking advantage of Nehalem's improvements from previous architectures. :( It's just the nature of hardware and software development; hardware comes first. :eek: :p
 
Those CPUs don't work in a dual processor configuration. There are Xeon 5600s listed on other sites though which will work in existing 5520 chipset boards.

The 2.66GHz 6 core processors are $38 more than the 2.66GHz quads found in Apple's current dual processor Mac Pro. Meaning such a system should be no more than a $100 more than it is now assuming they don't change the chipset.

Sorry folks, really boned this one. (Not enough coffee this morning). I did find a place selling them. Here is one place...
http://www.provantage.com/intel-bx80614x5680~7ITEP36V.htm . :eek:
Looks back ordered too. Probably be a month or so before anyone can get there hands on them provided apple and the rest don't suck them up.
 
Yeah, and you are a fool for doing so.. waste of money + the 2009's are still plauged with many many problems(NANOFROG).

I am a fool for nearly doubling my system performance, and adding my 2008 3.2Ghz machine to the render farm?

The 2009 8 core 2.93 with the discount my firm has arranged w/ Apple is around $5000 US. We bill $1000-$2000 per day. The system paid for itself in between 2.5-5 working days.

Benchwell score of the 2008: 1170
Bencwell score of the 2009: 2202

So it was 88.2% higher. I overestimated by 1.8% Sorry.

Have not had any of these "problems."
 
We bill $1000-$2000 per day. The system paid for itself in between 2.5-5 working days.

Nice. Now there's a Mac Pro earning it's keep! :D

There's an obvious diversity in these forums from starving students to high-end pro shops billing at these kinds of rates, yet it's not uncommon to see people posting as if their personal needs are the only consideration and that everyone should buy the same way as them. :confused: I'm sure I'm even guilty of this at times. Never the less, it's important to keep this diversity in the audience in mind! :)
 
There's an obvious diversity in these forums from starving students to high-end pro shops billing at these kinds of rates, yet it's not uncommon to see people posting as if their personal needs are the only consideration and that everyone should buy the same way as them. :confused:
Pish. Everyone knows there's only one kind of person, and if you have needs different than them you're obviously lying and incapable of seeing what you really need.

I won't be buying a 2010 Mac Pro. I might build a hackintosh, but it's doubtful I'll do either as my 2006 Mac Pro has plenty of life left in it.
 
Tiger direct price is $1099.99
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicat...ls.asp?EdpNo=9461&sku=I69-980X&srkey=gulftown
Newegg wants $1139.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115223

As far as I know, EVGA has the only mobo for dual socket to handle these but still looking around. My guess apple will charge around 8 grand for a dual socket gulftown system. What mobo are you looking at that will handle these beasts? I did see the mobo's on newegg's site for the 1366 sockets but unsure if these are up to the task. Been looking at the asus mobo's.

There are a lot of dual socket workstation motherboards that can handle the 5600s, but they only have one PCIe x16 slot. I was looking at the EVGA one too. You have to use either Xeon 5500 or 5600 series CPUs in EVGAs mobo.
 
How did you get that quote? Right now Newegg does not have the Xeon 5600's in stock.

The quote is based on two of the 3.33Ghz 5500 Xeons since newegg didn't have the 5600s yet. The X5680s will likely cost a few hundred more. I'll probably get cheaper RAM though, $700 for 12GB is kind of spendy.
 
The 2.66GHz 6 core processors are $38 more than the 2.66GHz quads found in Apple's current dual processor Mac Pro. Meaning such a system should be no more than a $100 more than it is now assuming they don't change the chipset.

Very interesting. Perhaps Apple will drop quad cores entirely?

Previously I speculated that Apple would go with the 2.8 GHz quad core for the 2010 models. But a 2.66 GHz hexacore for nearly the same cost is a very attractive value proposition.

Perhaps this will silence the critics: 2010 Mac Pro at $2500 with 2.66 hexacore. No it wont. :)
 
Very interesting. Perhaps Apple will drop quad cores entirely?

Previously I speculated that Apple would go with the 2.8 GHz quad core for the 2010 models. But a 2.66 GHz hexacore for nearly the same cost is a very attractive value proposition.

Perhaps this will silence the critics: 2010 Mac Pro at $2500 with 2.66 hexacore. No it wont. :)

Sorry for the confusion, I was talking about the Xeon X5650 at $996 over the currently used X5550 in the dual processor Mac Pro.
 
Well, just bought two Intel SSDs to stripe, looks like the 2008 octad has been chosen for me due to financial constraints :rolleyes:

Congratulations. Hope you get many years of production out of it :D

by the way, where did you pick up your intel SSDs? I've noticed the 80GBs have down to a constant $224.99 at Amazon and Newegg.
 
Congratulations. Hope you get many years of production out of it :D

by the way, where did you pick up your intel SSDs? I've noticed the 80GBs have down to a constant $224.99 at Amazon and Newegg.

I ended up getting two of the X25-V 40GB ones ($100 each), as my boot drive (OS & apps only) usually hangs around ~65 GB. I just couldn't justify paying twice the price for storage space I already have in other 1-2 TB mechanical drives.

I'm just hoping that I will get the speed I want out of them in RAID 0, I have heard their speeds are slower than the X25-M's.
 
I ended up getting two of the X25-V 40GB ones ($100 each), as my boot drive (OS & apps only) usually hangs around ~65 GB. I just couldn't justify paying twice the price for storage space I already have in other 1-2 TB mechanical drives.

I'm just hoping that I will get the speed I want out of them in RAID 0, I have heard their speeds are slower than the X25-M's.
They are, but still generate ~180MB/s for sustained reads (single disk; can't recall the random access throughput, but there are reviews out there). Double that for a stripe set, so you should be quite happy. :)
 
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