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Who's anticipating buying a 2010 Mac Pro?
- Thread starter VirtualRain
- Start date
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Nano: I wasn't clear... I'm expecting a $500 price drop on existing 45nm Apple Mac Pro systems. I don't expect Intel to adjust prices but Apple may.
Apple can't afford to kill off all the 45nm systems just yet, although it may clean house a bit... thus it really has to lower the price on existing 45nm systems or include some unknown goodie to call it new 2010 product.
Apple can't afford to kill off all the 45nm systems just yet, although it may clean house a bit... thus it really has to lower the price on existing 45nm systems or include some unknown goodie to call it new 2010 product.
If they're going to offer more than one model SP system, they'll have to use 45nm parts, as there's no 32nm replacements.
Now it's possible that they could offer a price reduction on them, but I wouldn't bet on it (it would cut into the LGA1156 iMacs, especially if it were $500USD).
They won't go with that many different CPU's. They currently only offer 6x total (3x per system; SP and DP). If they continue to keep it at this quantity, then there would have to be 2x 45nm Quads available. As per the DP systems, they could stick with 45nm parts to clear out any excessive remaining stock (they could have been caught with their pants down, as the contracts may have been signed before the economic meltdown). But if this didn't happen, then going 32nm would be what we see.
I do see 45nm as a posibility, assuming it was:
1. Planned (particularly to flush out the lines, as Apple would have been aware of Intel's intentions well prior to the public, and I'd expect that to have been before they even recieved shipments of the current parts).
2. Left over stock is really high.
Ricko101, I would go for it. I have the 2.8 2008 and it's brilliant; better than a 2009 for my tasks - the top of the line 3.2 with all those upgrades for that price is an awesome deal 
Wait, I've changed my mind: don't go for it and tell me where to get it
Wait, I've changed my mind: don't go for it and tell me where to get it
Ricko101, I would go for it. I have the 2.8 2008 and it's brilliant; better than a 2009 for my tasks - the top of the line 3.2 with all those upgrades for that price is an awesome deal
Wait, I've changed my mind: don't go for it and tell me where to get it
I think I will. I doubt I can achieve the same specs with the 2010 for that price...
I did some more reading and analysis this evening.
As per your comments, and what I've read elsewhere, the initial Gulftown desktop launch in Q1 will be limited to just one variant... the i7-980 at 3.3GHz. The i7-970 at 3.2GHz is not due until Q3. I couldn't find any info on Xeon parts but I guess we have to assume there will be a SP and DP Xeon equivalent to the i7-980.
Given the following existing price points:
Quad 2.66 -> $2500
Quad 2.93 -> $2900
Quad 3.33 -> $3700
Octo 2.26 -> $3300
Octo 2.66 -> $4700
Octo 2.93 -> $5900
Option A: Apple could just keep the lineup the same and inject the following Gulftown models at relative price points...
SP Gulftown -> $4500
DP Gulftown -> $6500
eekOption B: Gulftown systems replace top-end Nehalems at old price points (more cores for the same money)...
EOL Quad 3.33 -> $3700 -> Replaced with SP Gulftown
EOL Octo 2.93 -> $5900 -> Replaced with DP Gulftown
Other models unchanged
Option C: Lower prices across the line, trim the lineup, and inject new Gulftown models (similar to my original proposal and what I'd do if I was Mac Pro product manager for a day)
Quad 2.66 -> $2500 -> $2200
Quad 2.93 -> $2900 -> $2600
Quad 3.33 -> $3700 -> EOL
New SP Gulftown Model -> $3500
Octo 2.26 -> $3300 -> EOL
Octo 2.66 -> $4700 -> $4300
Octo 2.93 -> $5899 -> $5300
New DP Gulftown Model -> $6000
Basically, I'd eliminate the top end quad in favor of a hexa core and eliminate the low end Octo which has no reason for living any longer and replace it with a new flagship DP Gulftown vessel.
Now if my pipe dream comes to fruitiion, then there will be a million threads titled "Should I get the 3.3GHz Hexa or the 2.66GHz Octo". I'm not looking forward to the endless debates on that front!
Actually, that would be a no-brainer in my opinion. Even if they were priced the same, I'd take 6 cores at 3.3GHz over 8 at 2.66Ghz any day. Hence my pricing on the SP Gulftown, can't be right. So what's everyone betting on?
well i sure hope that pricing is way off. right now we can get 8 cores for $3300, which is still very high in my book. i want that price to go down, not up
There are; check the chart in the last post I made on page 5.
SP Xeon = W3680
DP Xeon = X5680
Option B is close I think.
To clarify, here's what I'm guessing ATM (just following current clocks, sans quantity pricing - following current pricing, and hopefully no increase):
SP Systems:
Nehalem (Quad) 2.66 (W3520) -> $2500
Nehalem (Quad) 2.93 (W3580) -> $2900
Gulftown (Hexa) 3.33 (W3680) -> $4500
DP Systems:
Gulftown (Octo) 2.66 (E5640) -> $4700
Gulftown (Octo) 2.93 (X5670) -> $5900
Gulftown (Dodeca) 3.33 (X5680) -> $6500
EOL'ed systems:
Quad 3.33 -> $3700
Octo 2.26 -> $3300
8 slower cores @ 2.26
6 faster cores @ 3.33
no question which one I'd be more interested in
Yep, that's a possibility too... My Option A pricing with Option B EOL. I can't imagine too many opting for the Octo 2.66 though. Most people would probably choose the 6 core over the entry 8 core.
On one hand I am waiting with bated breath for the new MacPros, OTOH every day of delay may mean additional technology from possibly Nvidia Fermi (4XX series)/ATI 5XXX to SATA3 and USB3.
If Apple does not deliver on the technological front, I think many here will go for the Hackintoshes. The new Gigabyte motherboards that you can Kakewalk will accept the 6-core Westmeres (http://www.giga-byte.com/Products/Motherboard/Products_Overview.aspx?ProductID=3304).
With the money you save (by not drinking the Kool-Aid) you can get boot SSD's and 12GB memory. If you can overclock some, you will be faster than the Apple hexacore and in many apps probably get close to the dual-hexacores.
If Apple does not deliver on the technological front, I think many here will go for the Hackintoshes. The new Gigabyte motherboards that you can Kakewalk will accept the 6-core Westmeres (http://www.giga-byte.com/Products/Motherboard/Products_Overview.aspx?ProductID=3304).
With the money you save (by not drinking the Kool-Aid) you can get boot SSD's and 12GB memory. If you can overclock some, you will be faster than the Apple hexacore and in many apps probably get close to the dual-hexacores.
I don't hope that this rather pessimistic prognosis will become reality.
People will grab their pitchforks if Apple would release the MP10 with the exact same processor specifications as the 09s.
i know, but i don't want to pay more than the current 8 core price. if anything, i wanna pay less
I don't hope that this rather pessimistic prognosis will become reality.
People will grab their pitchforks if Apple would release the MP10 with the exact same processor specifications as the 09s.
And especially if the daughterboards in the '10 MacPro for 45 nm CPUs don't have microcode for the 32 nm CPUs. Which may be likely if stock is still high.
Personally I want a price drop, since some bozo got it into their head that 8 threads makes it priced like a dual-processor machine.
2010 Mac Pro - really worth it to leave 3.0 harpertown?
In case many don't know I currently own a 3.0(close to 3.2) 2008 Harpertown mac pro and I have really just begun to expand its capabilities. I am looking to add maybe an SSD drive to my system and for what I use my pro machine for it is plenty fast if not really fast for my needs.
Looking at Nano's pricing based on option B, it seems that for a majority of the end users such as myself, the gulftown based mac pro is going to be out of the price range for most people. It begs to ask the question.. If one ads better hardware to an 08 based mac pro does it really matter when comparing to the gulftown? Right now, I use my mac pro for everyday tasks. I really have no business of my own which uses pro apps, though I am familiarizing myself with the pro market and the pro apps, as I plan to eventually work for Apple - always good to have experience to help customers make a educated buying decision.
Given the predicted pricing, will the 2009's make for a better option for those coming from a 2006/2007 mac pro? Although I have a 2008 model, it really going to be much more significant to upgrade to the 2010 Gulftown mac pro for everyday tasks?
I guess you could say I treated my mac pro purchase as a PC with the ability to tinker and expand and allow it to grow with my needs. I do see the EFI64 advantage here at least if Apple decides to release the radeon 5870 to work in a 2010 mac pro. So, really for basics and tinkering + expanding, is it really worth my time to try and get a 2010? Based on my current income, I could afford maybe, JUST MAYBE 3000 dollars. But, the way I see it based on the pricing grids - the hex core 2010 gulftowns are just going to be simply too expensive even for me.
In case many don't know I currently own a 3.0(close to 3.2) 2008 Harpertown mac pro and I have really just begun to expand its capabilities. I am looking to add maybe an SSD drive to my system and for what I use my pro machine for it is plenty fast if not really fast for my needs.
Looking at Nano's pricing based on option B, it seems that for a majority of the end users such as myself, the gulftown based mac pro is going to be out of the price range for most people. It begs to ask the question.. If one ads better hardware to an 08 based mac pro does it really matter when comparing to the gulftown? Right now, I use my mac pro for everyday tasks. I really have no business of my own which uses pro apps, though I am familiarizing myself with the pro market and the pro apps, as I plan to eventually work for Apple - always good to have experience to help customers make a educated buying decision.
Given the predicted pricing, will the 2009's make for a better option for those coming from a 2006/2007 mac pro? Although I have a 2008 model, it really going to be much more significant to upgrade to the 2010 Gulftown mac pro for everyday tasks?
I guess you could say I treated my mac pro purchase as a PC with the ability to tinker and expand and allow it to grow with my needs. I do see the EFI64 advantage here at least if Apple decides to release the radeon 5870 to work in a 2010 mac pro. So, really for basics and tinkering + expanding, is it really worth my time to try and get a 2010? Based on my current income, I could afford maybe, JUST MAYBE 3000 dollars. But, the way I see it based on the pricing grids - the hex core 2010 gulftowns are just going to be simply too expensive even for me.
Given your usage patterns, a 3.0 Ghz 2008 MP is well above your needs and will serve you well for a good long time. Don't get caught up in the "shiny" factor
Just picked up a mid-model 15" at christmas and I don't even come close to pushing it to the limit. I have a powerful desktop if I need something beefy, absolutely no reason to get an i5-i7 laptop to surf the net or email with and I wish more people would listen and absorb the advice from people on the forums when they say you are not going to NEED the processing power of a quad core laptop , now I know there is that low % of users that would but for the VAST majority of users the current MBP will last yrs until you need the upgrade. An i5 would be not much more than a hey look what i got purchase. Its like buying a corvette to drive back and forth to the video store in traffic.
We're really not that far apart in potential offerings. The lack of a quantity price list is a major Achilles heel though, and I'd be absolutely amazed if there's price cuts that happen with the 2010 models.
Yeah, if the price difference is that small, it would push buyers to go for the Dodeca core unit. But there will likely be a larger gap here, as there's no margin added for the additional cost of the CPU's.
They won't have a choice if they wish to offer more than one Quad in the lineup. The reason is, the W3680 (3.33GHz) is the ONLY 32nm SP Xeon that will be available in time.I don't hope that this rather pessimistic prognosis will become reality.
People will grab their pitchforks if Apple would release the MP10 with the exact same processor specifications as the 09s.
As I've indicated to you before, keep what you've got. Getting a newer machine at this point is a bad move. More money, no usable benefit.
Well, it looks like my Powermac g4 will soon be dying on me. I want to wait until march to see what apple does with it's "pro" lineup. If they hike up the price, i'm hunting for a 2008 model. Hopefully they do some major improvements and price adjustments (lowering).
For those of you talking about potential processors you seem to have missed that every chip used by Apple right now will have been replaced by the launch of Gulftown.
Intel's single socket line at the time of the 2010 Mac Pro would be the following at the same price points Apple currently use:
W3530 - 2.80GHz x4, 45nm, 1066MHz
W3565 - 3.20GHz x4, 45nm, 1066MHz
W3680 - 3.33GHz x6, 32nm, 1066Mhz
Logical prices for these systems and what you can expect elsewhere would be $1,500, $2,000 and $2,500. At $500 apple tax it's perhaps bearable, at $1,000 its ridiculous again. An 8-core/12-core line isn't going match the quad one because of the move to 32nm so with Apple being how they are I think them dropping the SP line is plausible. Especially with the iMacs having more power now. I doubt they will ever just leave it to users to decide what they need, they want to market specs towards people and have it all fit nicely in their little bubble.
Intel's single socket line at the time of the 2010 Mac Pro would be the following at the same price points Apple currently use:
W3530 - 2.80GHz x4, 45nm, 1066MHz
W3565 - 3.20GHz x4, 45nm, 1066MHz
W3680 - 3.33GHz x6, 32nm, 1066Mhz
Logical prices for these systems and what you can expect elsewhere would be $1,500, $2,000 and $2,500. At $500 apple tax it's perhaps bearable, at $1,000 its ridiculous again. An 8-core/12-core line isn't going match the quad one because of the move to 32nm so with Apple being how they are I think them dropping the SP line is plausible. Especially with the iMacs having more power now. I doubt they will ever just leave it to users to decide what they need, they want to market specs towards people and have it all fit nicely in their little bubble.
You can already order the i7 980x here in Germany:
http://www.hardmac.com/news/2010/03/01/pre-order-your-intel-xeon-core-i7-hexa-core
I found prices ranging from 963,35 € to 1099,- €.
http://www.heise.de/preisvergleich/a490109.html (german)
Found nothing on the new Xeons yet.
http://www.hardmac.com/news/2010/03/01/pre-order-your-intel-xeon-core-i7-hexa-core
I found prices ranging from 963,35 € to 1099,- €.
http://www.heise.de/preisvergleich/a490109.html (german)
Found nothing on the new Xeons yet.
Intel's NDAs have been locked down tight the last couple of launches. No competition = no need to talk about it. Probably won't get any real details until the launch.